| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? 21:20 - Jul 28 with 25937 views | Swansea93 |
I appreciate the attempts last season of certain groups trying to start some chants and protests, and I'm not jumping the gun and being negative here, but since Huw said he'd step down if we were relegated and he's still here is abit of joke, he's hired Potter and hasn't given him any backing in the market as of yet and is clearly calling the shots still. When are we all actually going to get Jenkins out because I don't think we can 'rebuild' with him still here, how many fans are actually going to forgive him for the sh!te he's caused the last few years? With Andre Ayew leaving on loan is a prime example of how Huw has run the club the past few years, big money signings on big wages leaving for next to nothing. Yes we all appreciate what he and others did for the club all them years ago, but we've moved on since that and we're talking about now & the future which he has shat on.
Eder, Tabanou, Borja, Ayew, Bony, Clucas, Ngog, Mesa to name a few of his signings that have all cost a club of our size a fortune,not to mention the questionable decisions he's made e.g not bringing Allen back when he had the chance, handing out long contracts to squad players who weren't playing in the first team. He stated we'd learn from mistakes which they clearly havent it's the same old story every time, we start the season in 7 days and we have signed 1 player officially for the '1st team' and if we start off bad Potter is going to get the blame for this whilst Huw is tucked up in his directors box getting away with all the sh!t. |  |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:45 - Jul 29 with 1222 views | MattG |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:37 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
You are doing it again. Asking me a question and then using my answer against me to suggest this is what I think he said.
What he said is simple and what he said is there for all to read.
The only person who has said that relegation means he said he would resign, is you. When asked directly he said he would consider it. In who’s world does that mean he would?
We are going round in circles here. But to take it back to your post. He did not say what you claim he did. |
Perhaps it's just me but, if someone's position becomes untenable then my natural expectation is that they would resign that position. It even happens in the moral wasteland of politics.
What Jenkins said was that if we continued "on this path of hardly winning games" then he had "no doubt" that his position would be untenable. As you say, it is there for all to read. What he didn't say was "hardly winning games that we should expect to win" - this was the added context that you are using to justify him staying in post.
Agree to disagree. |  | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:46 - Jul 29 with 1218 views | moonie |
What, we sign Shaquelle. Jenkins ? Lol rofl. FFS.
No chance we sign a player who had a good World Cup, a proven goal scorer and game changer .
Would Liverpool have signed Bony, or Mesa,or Clucas is more to the point | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:47 - Jul 29 with 1209 views | MattG |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:43 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Yes but that is inevitable is my point.
Otherwise how would we ever realistically get relegated? Something you surely also agree was an inevitability? |
Making some poor signings might be inevitable but to make the number of poor signings that we have over the last few years isn't. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:47 - Jul 29 with 1206 views | E20Jack |
An analogy.
A climbing wall. The higher you go, the larger distance between the foot grips.
No person 5 foot tall has ever gone further than 50m.
A 5 foot man steps up to the wall and goes 60m, it is inevitable that at some point he will take a leap and miss. A leap that will ultimately be his decision.
When back at the bottom, he does not look at that as a failure, even though it was his inevitable decision that caused him to halt his progress. |  |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:48 - Jul 29 with 1200 views | MattG |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:47 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
An analogy.
A climbing wall. The higher you go, the larger distance between the foot grips.
No person 5 foot tall has ever gone further than 50m.
A 5 foot man steps up to the wall and goes 60m, it is inevitable that at some point he will take a leap and miss. A leap that will ultimately be his decision.
When back at the bottom, he does not look at that as a failure, even though it was his inevitable decision that caused him to halt his progress. |
What if he missed because he became distracted by something and took his eye off what he should have been focused on? | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:50 - Jul 29 with 1192 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:47 - Jul 29 by MattG |
Making some poor signings might be inevitable but to make the number of poor signings that we have over the last few years isn't. |
It is. Because the squad is weak due to spiralling costs.
They aren’t necessarily bad signings. Clucas way we’ll go to Burnley and be excellent, Ayew may well go to Fenerbahce and then back to the Prem and be a very good Premier League player again.
Our squad was weakened by time. To a point where if we had signed Pablo of 2014 he may well have struggled. This is why teams do not stay. They weaken over time so signings have less and less chance to do well.
Not to mention the weaker the squad the lesser the options become. Sometimes you are forced to make a certain signing. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:53 - Jul 29 with 1189 views | Jinxy |
Sorry to butt in quite an intense debate. In my view there is a difference between inevitability, and unavoidability. When you break down the mistakes over the past 3 years or so and critique them, then I'd argue relegation was therefore avoidable. So was relegation, when it happened, really inevitable? |  | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:55 - Jul 29 with 1174 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:45 - Jul 29 by MattG |
Perhaps it's just me but, if someone's position becomes untenable then my natural expectation is that they would resign that position. It even happens in the moral wasteland of politics.
What Jenkins said was that if we continued "on this path of hardly winning games" then he had "no doubt" that his position would be untenable. As you say, it is there for all to read. What he didn't say was "hardly winning games that we should expect to win" - this was the added context that you are using to justify him staying in post.
Agree to disagree. |
The point is what you deem as a defining moment that something becomes untenable differed to someone else’s. Yes Jenkins said if they continued down that path, but how far does that path go? You decided it was relegation.
What we are clear of is when asked directly regarding his position and relegation - he said he “would consider it”, which categorically suggests he doesn’t agree that relegation means his position is untenable. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:57 - Jul 29 with 1168 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:48 - Jul 29 by MattG |
What if he missed because he became distracted by something and took his eye off what he should have been focused on? |
Can that be proven?
If not, or even so, the eventual “failure” was coming due to circumstance. The fact he broke all records or historically based expectations is absolutely relevant. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:59 - Jul 29 with 1160 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:46 - Jul 29 by moonie |
What, we sign Shaquelle. Jenkins ? Lol rofl. FFS.
No chance we sign a player who had a good World Cup, a proven goal scorer and game changer .
Would Liverpool have signed Bony, or Mesa,or Clucas is more to the point |
Of course not.
They get the luxury of low risk players they can afford that want to sign for them.
Clubs our size rarely do. Hence they end up getting relegated. ALWAYS. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:03 - Jul 29 with 1137 views | E20Jack |
Anyway.
How refreshing to have a proper football debate without name calling.
Well done all | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:03 - Jul 29 with 1136 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:53 - Jul 29 by Jinxy |
Sorry to butt in quite an intense debate. In my view there is a difference between inevitability, and unavoidability. When you break down the mistakes over the past 3 years or so and critique them, then I'd argue relegation was therefore avoidable. So was relegation, when it happened, really inevitable? |
No it wasn't, Jinx. Some people can't regognize that football clubs, even in this day and age have the potential to grow. We started to grow but the chairman decided we needed to lose weight and started giving out assets away. It was a voluntary action and this totally avoidable. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:07 - Jul 29 with 1125 views | moonie |
No, it's because our recruitment team source previous players who are shot to pieces or foreign nonentities who prove they really are nonentities
As if we d sign a player of quality for13 m
As for risk ....well that s a tap in | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:07 - Jul 29 with 1120 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:03 - Jul 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
No it wasn't, Jinx. Some people can't regognize that football clubs, even in this day and age have the potential to grow. We started to grow but the chairman decided we needed to lose weight and started giving out assets away. It was a voluntary action and this totally avoidable. |
Of course they can. We did. As other clubs did that are our size. That growth stops however when you can no longer satisfy the increase in costs.
What others don’t recognise is we are no different to any other club and are not expempt from the same things that has relegated club for decades at this level, and will continue to do so. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:10 - Jul 29 with 1113 views | E20Jack |
Do you all want me to break something to you as well?
If the best thing happens and we go straight back up next year...
We will also come back down again before long. Probably all for the same reasons. This chance to “fail” again is what we are striving for currently.
This is absolutely true. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:11 - Jul 29 with 1106 views | BillyChong |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:43 - Jul 29 by moonie |
Wigan is in greater Manchester and is no nearer Liverpool than Manchester or Preston.
It's quite independent .
Very proud ,if odd people who are in no way shape or form plastic scousers or mancs .
See y all there |
Went there when we played them a few years back. The pub not far from the ground was full of either arsenal, United or Liverpool fans (two of those three were playing each other) watching the early kick off none of which were going to the Wigan game. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:15 - Jul 29 with 1093 views | Jinxy |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:03 - Jul 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
No it wasn't, Jinx. Some people can't regognize that football clubs, even in this day and age have the potential to grow. We started to grow but the chairman decided we needed to lose weight and started giving out assets away. It was a voluntary action and this totally avoidable. |
Totally agree. That's why I think he will walk, because deep down he surely recognises the errors. I'm not sure he's ever publicly done that, which is a shame as that could have represented a path forward. I think he wants to leave once it's recognised we're making progress. As I said earlier, the question is whether the devil you know is better?! I really wish they'd sold to investors that wanted to grow the club - of all the mistakes, cloak, daggers etc. that for me was the biggest.
I have hope in the appointment of GP though - perhaps HJ argued for him as opposed to a Warnock type that may have got us back up regardless of playing style etc.. Selling a longer term sustainable future. I'd like to think that was the case. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:15 - Jul 29 with 1087 views | MattG |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 11:55 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
The point is what you deem as a defining moment that something becomes untenable differed to someone else’s. Yes Jenkins said if they continued down that path, but how far does that path go? You decided it was relegation.
What we are clear of is when asked directly regarding his position and relegation - he said he “would consider it”, which categorically suggests he doesn’t agree that relegation means his position is untenable. |
The fact is that he was asked the question in the context of us being in the PL and under threat of relegation as a result of losing too many games. We both know that but you are choosing to ignore it - your prerogative.
Another interpretation of his "certainly consider"statement is that, given where we were at that point in time, we could theoretically have been relegated without continuing on that path. In such a situation, he would probably have wanted to give himself an escape route. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 12:16]
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:19 - Jul 29 with 1075 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:15 - Jul 29 by MattG |
The fact is that he was asked the question in the context of us being in the PL and under threat of relegation as a result of losing too many games. We both know that but you are choosing to ignore it - your prerogative.
Another interpretation of his "certainly consider"statement is that, given where we were at that point in time, we could theoretically have been relegated without continuing on that path. In such a situation, he would probably have wanted to give himself an escape route. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 12:16]
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Matt, that isn’t even close to being a fact. You and you alone has just created the context.
If it was a fact then his answer to ‘his position if relegated’ would be the same as the answer to ‘continue not winning games’ - yet it wasn’t.
I am not buying the elaborate get out clause you describe.
You would have far more joy going down the conduct route. But you would still need to answer those questions, which aren’t easy. Trust me. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 12:21]
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:20 - Jul 29 with 1068 views | Jinxy |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:10 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Do you all want me to break something to you as well?
If the best thing happens and we go straight back up next year...
We will also come back down again before long. Probably all for the same reasons. This chance to “fail” again is what we are striving for currently.
This is absolutely true. |
Slightly disagree there. I'd argue going straight back up next season would not be the best thing. To reset the playing style to somewhere where it was/should be will and should take time, as it did before. That's why we all need to be patient with and get behind GP!
By and large years ago we had also-ran players who executed an excellent system (thank you RM), hence why a lot of our players suffered "the Swansea curse", i.e. not looking so good when playing in non possession-based systems. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:23 - Jul 29 with 1055 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:07 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Of course they can. We did. As other clubs did that are our size. That growth stops however when you can no longer satisfy the increase in costs.
What others don’t recognise is we are no different to any other club and are not expempt from the same things that has relegated club for decades at this level, and will continue to do so. |
Growth stops when you stop eating your food and giving it to others. We failed miserably to manage our growth and stopped scouting players with a resale value. There was no doubt it was avoidable. Lazy management did for us. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:24 - Jul 29 with 1047 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:20 - Jul 29 by Jinxy |
Slightly disagree there. I'd argue going straight back up next season would not be the best thing. To reset the playing style to somewhere where it was/should be will and should take time, as it did before. That's why we all need to be patient with and get behind GP!
By and large years ago we had also-ran players who executed an excellent system (thank you RM), hence why a lot of our players suffered "the Swansea curse", i.e. not looking so good when playing in non possession-based systems. |
Well whatever your best scenario is, it ends up in promotion to the Premier League.
Upon which you will need to realise it is a matter of time before we get relegated again, in all likelihood for the same reasons. Meaning we are currently striving to get into a position to “fail” again, if relegation after success is seen as failure.
Getting a sugar daddy like Man City is another option, but not very likely. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:25 - Jul 29 with 1044 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:23 - Jul 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
Growth stops when you stop eating your food and giving it to others. We failed miserably to manage our growth and stopped scouting players with a resale value. There was no doubt it was avoidable. Lazy management did for us. |
So we should have stayed there forever then?
Silly us. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:25 - Jul 29 with 1045 views | MattG |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:19 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Matt, that isn’t even close to being a fact. You and you alone has just created the context.
If it was a fact then his answer to ‘his position if relegated’ would be the same as the answer to ‘continue not winning games’ - yet it wasn’t.
I am not buying the elaborate get out clause you describe.
You would have far more joy going down the conduct route. But you would still need to answer those questions, which aren’t easy. Trust me. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 12:21]
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So we weren't in the PL and in danger of relegation as a result of losing too many games? Of course we were and that sets the context for both the question and the answer.
I'm not suggesting my alternative explanation for his "certainly consider" comment is any more or less plausible than yours but it is another option.
And if Jenkins had any compunction over the way the sale was conducted, he would have walked a long time ago. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:30 - Jul 29 with 1025 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 12:25 - Jul 29 by MattG |
So we weren't in the PL and in danger of relegation as a result of losing too many games? Of course we were and that sets the context for both the question and the answer.
I'm not suggesting my alternative explanation for his "certainly consider" comment is any more or less plausible than yours but it is another option.
And if Jenkins had any compunction over the way the sale was conducted, he would have walked a long time ago. |
Yes. But you created the context of the question and even more importantly - the answer. You then added a time frame to it even though later clarification suggests is inaccurate. You can speculate what he meant if you like, but I am simply going on what he did actually say.
Tell you what Matt, answer those questions anyway then? Maybe Jenkins asked himself the same ones and equally didn’t like the answers. See what answers you come up with, be honest and realistic though. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 12:32]
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