| He Has Got To Go 16:58 - Feb 23 with 23554 views | SandyDrum |
For the sake of Rochdale Association Football Club.
Keith Hill, please resign immediately. |  |
| Wish I'd chosen a different username... |
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| He Has Got To Go on 08:02 - Feb 27 with 2569 views | SteTsGoldenBoot |
| He Has Got To Go on 07:44 - Feb 27 by pioneer |
he wants the best for himself, nothing more and nothing less. The best for dale would involve waiving the 5 year contract...he is not going to do that and no one can blame him. This crap about wanting the best for the club is laughable. Is that why he jumped ship to Barnsley? |
Although I think KH has done a shocking job over the past two years, He is entitled to every penny on the contract that was offered and agreed in good faith.
I also think its unfair to criticise him for trying to better himself, in a higher division, he earned that right.
Whatever happens, we don't have to character assassinate our most successful manager. |  |
| Everything thats been, has past. The answers in the looking glass! |
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| He Has Got To Go on 08:26 - Feb 27 with 2488 views | pioneer |
| He Has Got To Go on 08:02 - Feb 27 by SteTsGoldenBoot |
Although I think KH has done a shocking job over the past two years, He is entitled to every penny on the contract that was offered and agreed in good faith.
I also think its unfair to criticise him for trying to better himself, in a higher division, he earned that right.
Whatever happens, we don't have to character assassinate our most successful manager. |
no character assassination on my part...another post indicated he would be doing whats best for the club...like you I think he does whats best for him, including leaving for Barnsley, which certainly didnt help the club.
And yes of course he is entitled to every penny in the contract he signed. | | | |
| He Has Got To Go on 11:32 - Feb 27 with 2285 views | D_Alien |
I think our situation is exacerbated by our closest rivals riding high in L2, and look how quickly fortunes can change
I wonder how KH's most vociferous critics will feel if, after the seeming inevitable, we were also riding high in L2 and playing attractive football? I'm not saying we would be, just asking how many would be prepared to accept that it's just the way football fortunes work if we do?
I posted t' other day to say that "this is what relegation looks like". There's no such thing as a "good" relegation, each one feels uniquely shite and different reasons - and opinions - emerge as to why it's happening. I'm not resigned to it, nor should anyone be till it's mathematically impossible to avoid; the perspective that "we're not good enough" this time round doesn't imo alter Hill's legacy at Dale. And there may be more good times to come |  |
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| He Has Got To Go on 12:01 - Feb 27 with 2236 views | electricblue |
The main problem with relegation is getting to bounce back.
Many teams have tried to bounce back and failed miserably and then therevare the relegated teams who have also tried the rebuilding of the squad to get into the promotion lottery and thus again failed..
You need somebody who knows how to use the current squad with a couple of additions to try n bounce back into the promotion...
Then there is the lower wages budget structure thrown into the mix aswell and i dont think that Hill is a manager who can handle a big wages budget as your head gets turned into looking for a certain player who will cost more.
Hill for me works on a restricted budget and he finds the players to work aswell..
Perhaps time as now caught up with the restricted wages budget at Dale and relegation as become a reality.....
I do believe that if Dale goes down hill should be given the opportunity to get them back up....
If its not working lets say november ish then yeah by all means sack him.... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| He Has Got To Go on 12:08 - Feb 27 with 2221 views | dingdangblue |
| He Has Got To Go on 11:32 - Feb 27 by D_Alien |
I think our situation is exacerbated by our closest rivals riding high in L2, and look how quickly fortunes can change
I wonder how KH's most vociferous critics will feel if, after the seeming inevitable, we were also riding high in L2 and playing attractive football? I'm not saying we would be, just asking how many would be prepared to accept that it's just the way football fortunes work if we do?
I posted t' other day to say that "this is what relegation looks like". There's no such thing as a "good" relegation, each one feels uniquely shite and different reasons - and opinions - emerge as to why it's happening. I'm not resigned to it, nor should anyone be till it's mathematically impossible to avoid; the perspective that "we're not good enough" this time round doesn't imo alter Hill's legacy at Dale. And there may be more good times to come |
Thats my view. No one wants to watch us lose every week - and strangely those who think we should be aiming for promotion to the Championship - what do they think would happen to us most games should we be playing at that level? Yes Hill has had us competitive in this league for 4 seasons (1 in his first tenure and the 3 seasons after our 2nd promotion) - but to carry it on year after year is nigh on impossible. Even Sheffield Utd took 5 or 6 seasons to get promotion back to the Championship. Maybe Hill and the board have thought that our only chance of promotion or success whilst he has 2 years left as our manager is from lge2. Its certainly more likely than any success in this division - despite what miracles he's done in those previous 4 seasons. |  |
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| He Has Got To Go on 12:19 - Feb 27 with 2186 views | JimmyRustler |
| He Has Got To Go on 12:08 - Feb 27 by dingdangblue |
Thats my view. No one wants to watch us lose every week - and strangely those who think we should be aiming for promotion to the Championship - what do they think would happen to us most games should we be playing at that level? Yes Hill has had us competitive in this league for 4 seasons (1 in his first tenure and the 3 seasons after our 2nd promotion) - but to carry it on year after year is nigh on impossible. Even Sheffield Utd took 5 or 6 seasons to get promotion back to the Championship. Maybe Hill and the board have thought that our only chance of promotion or success whilst he has 2 years left as our manager is from lge2. Its certainly more likely than any success in this division - despite what miracles he's done in those previous 4 seasons. |
The amount of people who think we should be 'aiming for promotion to the Championship' is infinitesimal.
People would be much more accepting of our plight if the basics were being done right/lessons had been learnt over the past 18 months. Relegation isn't the issue for the large majority - it's how we're going about it that irks people.
We aren't expecting miracles or asking for much |  | | |
| He Has Got To Go on 12:24 - Feb 27 with 2170 views | electricblue |
Aiming for the Championship is all ok and and well but reality is our finances is not capable of such a thing....
Trying to edge into the positions just below playoffs though is the possible target and at a pinch perhaps the play offs itself if it becomes an opportunity but not at the clubs existance... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| He Has Got To Go on 12:42 - Feb 27 with 2125 views | blackdogblue |
| He Has Got To Go on 12:01 - Feb 27 by electricblue |
The main problem with relegation is getting to bounce back.
Many teams have tried to bounce back and failed miserably and then therevare the relegated teams who have also tried the rebuilding of the squad to get into the promotion lottery and thus again failed..
You need somebody who knows how to use the current squad with a couple of additions to try n bounce back into the promotion...
Then there is the lower wages budget structure thrown into the mix aswell and i dont think that Hill is a manager who can handle a big wages budget as your head gets turned into looking for a certain player who will cost more.
Hill for me works on a restricted budget and he finds the players to work aswell..
Perhaps time as now caught up with the restricted wages budget at Dale and relegation as become a reality.....
I do believe that if Dale goes down hill should be given the opportunity to get them back up....
If its not working lets say november ish then yeah by all means sack him.... |
Bounce back is one option, look at York City and where they are now, more recently Chesterfield although not as dramatic...
There is a down option as well as up |  |
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| He Has Got To Go on 13:06 - Feb 27 with 2072 views | electricblue |
| He Has Got To Go on 12:42 - Feb 27 by blackdogblue |
Bounce back is one option, look at York City and where they are now, more recently Chesterfield although not as dramatic...
There is a down option as well as up |
I agree there is the drop aswell.. | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| He Has Got To Go on 13:35 - Feb 27 with 2011 views | D_Alien |
| He Has Got To Go on 12:19 - Feb 27 by JimmyRustler |
The amount of people who think we should be 'aiming for promotion to the Championship' is infinitesimal.
People would be much more accepting of our plight if the basics were being done right/lessons had been learnt over the past 18 months. Relegation isn't the issue for the large majority - it's how we're going about it that irks people.
We aren't expecting miracles or asking for much |
I know exactly what you mean about why fans feel irked, but what i'm getting at is it probably looks that way for every club facing relegation. Fans will see mistakes being made, lessons not learnt, poor player recruitment, etc. etc. etc. etc.
And then you get relegated...
What i'm suggesting is this is no different, though each relegation feels unique
I'm not an unbridled optimist who thinks we'd bounce straight back either. My point was more to do with how people would view KH should he put us back into the attractive-football / promotion-challenging mode if we were in L2, which his track record suggests he'd be more than capable of doing. Or would they find themselves unable to join in the KHBA chants? | |
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| He Has Got To Go on 14:02 - Feb 27 with 1960 views | JimmyRustler |
| He Has Got To Go on 13:35 - Feb 27 by D_Alien |
I know exactly what you mean about why fans feel irked, but what i'm getting at is it probably looks that way for every club facing relegation. Fans will see mistakes being made, lessons not learnt, poor player recruitment, etc. etc. etc. etc.
And then you get relegated...
What i'm suggesting is this is no different, though each relegation feels unique
I'm not an unbridled optimist who thinks we'd bounce straight back either. My point was more to do with how people would view KH should he put us back into the attractive-football / promotion-challenging mode if we were in L2, which his track record suggests he'd be more than capable of doing. Or would they find themselves unable to join in the KHBA chants? |
Oh I didn't disagree with anything you said, I was replying to DDB. I just think that had things simply not worked out this season, it would be a little more palatable.
The signings of Perkins and Wilbraham for example are forgivable as on paper, they looked impressive and most were behind them at the time. There will always be an autopsy and a number of "what ifs" after a relegation but when these questions surround basic principles and common sense, you have to look at the manager.
The worst thing about all of this is that general malaise around the club coupled with own personal apathy has lead to me not caring if we stick with KH next season or not (if we go down). It's also worth pointing out that is the first time I've ever felt like this...depressing times | | | |
| He Has Got To Go on 14:21 - Feb 27 with 1923 views | TheBeast666 |
If I were KH theres no way I would simply walk from a lucrative contract, maybe I would consider a payoff though but not walk away with nothing so that's an issue for the bosses to decide if payoff is a realistic option.
I personally think there is enough ability in the squad to stay up, a couple of 3 pointers would make a big movement towards safety, but the problem is Mr Stubborn's refusal to play the best players in the right positions, his comments about intelligence and balance made me laugh - simply play the best players in correct shape and you have intelligence and balance !
But what if we stayed up ? same nonsense again next year ? falling out with key players, not listening to advice from senior pros ? living on past memories ? swearing at longstanding fans who pay his wages?. Who is to say same wouldn't happen in league 2 if we were relegated if KH persisted in his 'my way or the highway' style of management ?
He has the right tools at his disposal but through arrogance and pigheadedness will never use them effectively. Unless he has a huge personality transplant, starts to work with rather than against players and fans, its only prolonging the inevitable.
As he will never walk he needs to be pushed , hes inflicted enough pain on too many for it to be tolerated much longer. Be brave BOD, short term pain for long term gain. | | | |
| He Has Got To Go on 14:40 - Feb 27 with 1894 views | dingdangblue |
| He Has Got To Go on 14:21 - Feb 27 by TheBeast666 |
If I were KH theres no way I would simply walk from a lucrative contract, maybe I would consider a payoff though but not walk away with nothing so that's an issue for the bosses to decide if payoff is a realistic option.
I personally think there is enough ability in the squad to stay up, a couple of 3 pointers would make a big movement towards safety, but the problem is Mr Stubborn's refusal to play the best players in the right positions, his comments about intelligence and balance made me laugh - simply play the best players in correct shape and you have intelligence and balance !
But what if we stayed up ? same nonsense again next year ? falling out with key players, not listening to advice from senior pros ? living on past memories ? swearing at longstanding fans who pay his wages?. Who is to say same wouldn't happen in league 2 if we were relegated if KH persisted in his 'my way or the highway' style of management ?
He has the right tools at his disposal but through arrogance and pigheadedness will never use them effectively. Unless he has a huge personality transplant, starts to work with rather than against players and fans, its only prolonging the inevitable.
As he will never walk he needs to be pushed , hes inflicted enough pain on too many for it to be tolerated much longer. Be brave BOD, short term pain for long term gain. |
And yet his joy to pain ratio at Dale must be around 80/20 in joys favour.
We are in a predicament - somehow turn it around and then there is a chance of more struggle next season. Or go down, start again and Hill does what he does best - build a squad/team to do well in league 2 - but then what? Get promotion and struggle again when our best players leave?
My head hurts. | |
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| He Has Got To Go on 14:49 - Feb 27 with 1859 views | 442Dale |
| He Has Got To Go on 14:40 - Feb 27 by dingdangblue |
And yet his joy to pain ratio at Dale must be around 80/20 in joys favour.
We are in a predicament - somehow turn it around and then there is a chance of more struggle next season. Or go down, start again and Hill does what he does best - build a squad/team to do well in league 2 - but then what? Get promotion and struggle again when our best players leave?
My head hurts. |
What Hill does best, as proven, is build teams which compete whatever division we have been in. We succeeded because of his ability to do that, we are failing because of his inability to do it at present. Budgets/division/rivals with more money are almost inconsequential and we all know that to be the case, the saddest thing about all this is that so much of it could have been avoided.
And those at Spotland know it. |  |
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| He Has Got To Go on 15:26 - Feb 27 with 1783 views | dingdangblue |
| He Has Got To Go on 14:49 - Feb 27 by 442Dale |
What Hill does best, as proven, is build teams which compete whatever division we have been in. We succeeded because of his ability to do that, we are failing because of his inability to do it at present. Budgets/division/rivals with more money are almost inconsequential and we all know that to be the case, the saddest thing about all this is that so much of it could have been avoided.
And those at Spotland know it. |
Has he had more success in lge1 or lge2 ? | |
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| He Has Got To Go on 15:34 - Feb 27 with 1763 views | nordenblue |
| He Has Got To Go on 15:26 - Feb 27 by dingdangblue |
Has he had more success in lge1 or lge2 ? |
Depends how you define success really, id guess his win ratio was a lot higher in league 2 and a total stab in the dark but id hope the goals conceded was mildly better in league 2 too.  | | | |
| He Has Got To Go on 15:43 - Feb 27 with 1743 views | rochdale_ranger |
Keith Hill has been our best and worst ever manager. To go from being the guy who says I’m not interested in history to the guy who says “It’s fine that we are at the bottom of the league because that means we are top of league two” shows the depths he has plummeted. To get us to a point where we are competing in league one to a point where he and d1ckhead Dave are telling us we are lucky to put up with this shows how shite we are. |  | | |
| He Has Got To Go on 15:44 - Feb 27 with 1736 views | 442Dale |
| He Has Got To Go on 15:26 - Feb 27 by dingdangblue |
Has he had more success in lge1 or lge2 ? |
Ask the manager/players/club. I’d say equal amounts in both.
We succeed and fail wherever we are because of the manager, there’s no doubt how inextricably linked the club’s fortunes are to Hill now.
As said, many of our problems are completely avoidable and there is no valid argument whatsoever that we can’t compete in League 1. It’s about time people started accepting responsibility. Excuses are both laughable and without substance, history has proven that. | |
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| He Has Got To Go on 16:09 - Feb 27 with 1685 views | D_Alien |
| He Has Got To Go on 15:44 - Feb 27 by 442Dale |
Ask the manager/players/club. I’d say equal amounts in both.
We succeed and fail wherever we are because of the manager, there’s no doubt how inextricably linked the club’s fortunes are to Hill now.
As said, many of our problems are completely avoidable and there is no valid argument whatsoever that we can’t compete in League 1. It’s about time people started accepting responsibility. Excuses are both laughable and without substance, history has proven that. |
I'm afraid i have to disagree. You're making managing a L1 club sound like it's a routine business; that competing in the top half for a couple of years means that should always be the case. If, indeed, that were the case, no club would ever move up or down the leagues
The momentum we had following promotion kept us in a good place, and we (or the manager) were fortunate in his signings working out. For the past 18 months or so, they haven't. The manager was being criticised heavily when we were riding high for various signings/selections - maybe he hasn't changed at all but his fortune has run out in key areas. Thus, we are where we are, and whilst i'd be the last person to suggest he hasn't made mistakes, i am suggesting he made the same mistakes in previous years (just think back to hundreds of threads about them) but with better quality players to maintain our position. The quality just isn't there at the moment - spread across the backbone of the team - but that's not to say it couldn't happen again
[Post edited 27 Feb 2019 16:10]
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| He Has Got To Go on 16:49 - Feb 27 with 1619 views | SuddenLad |
| He Has Got To Go on 15:43 - Feb 27 by rochdale_ranger |
Keith Hill has been our best and worst ever manager. To go from being the guy who says I’m not interested in history to the guy who says “It’s fine that we are at the bottom of the league because that means we are top of league two” shows the depths he has plummeted. To get us to a point where we are competing in league one to a point where he and d1ckhead Dave are telling us we are lucky to put up with this shows how shite we are. |
You think Keith Hill is our worst manager ever ? Really ? He is the best manager by a distance and a double distance from being the worst. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| He Has Got To Go on 17:04 - Feb 27 with 1582 views | 442Dale |
| He Has Got To Go on 16:09 - Feb 27 by D_Alien |
I'm afraid i have to disagree. You're making managing a L1 club sound like it's a routine business; that competing in the top half for a couple of years means that should always be the case. If, indeed, that were the case, no club would ever move up or down the leagues
The momentum we had following promotion kept us in a good place, and we (or the manager) were fortunate in his signings working out. For the past 18 months or so, they haven't. The manager was being criticised heavily when we were riding high for various signings/selections - maybe he hasn't changed at all but his fortune has run out in key areas. Thus, we are where we are, and whilst i'd be the last person to suggest he hasn't made mistakes, i am suggesting he made the same mistakes in previous years (just think back to hundreds of threads about them) but with better quality players to maintain our position. The quality just isn't there at the moment - spread across the backbone of the team - but that's not to say it couldn't happen again
[Post edited 27 Feb 2019 16:10]
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No, I’m not saying it’s routine or that competing in the top half for three seasons means we always should be. It’s that the some of the issues we have now have been avoidable and we don’t need to be struggling as much as we have. Simply that.
Last season illustrated how to respond when mistakes are made. The much talked about, and rightly lauded, 16 game plan turned the campaign around; supporters could see a squad with as little quality as the one we currently have was a cohesive unit who all knew their roles. Whether we stayed up would have not altered the fact that we could see real progress being made from the mistakes made.
There’s enough times on here where I’ve backed the manager and the club when others have unrealistic expectations. A relegation battle and a relegation itself aren’t unexpected or unacceptable, refusing to admit we have been the masters of our own downfall is.
Of course, there is still the hope that will happen again and we see something similar to the ‘16 game plan’ again. If not, it’s worth repeating that those at the club will be fully aware of why. Right now, there’s something wrong. There really is and it’s affecting supporters to the point that some are losing interest. | |
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| He Has Got To Go on 17:15 - Feb 27 with 1540 views | Bobbyjoe |
When players who are not being selected for the first team , for whatever reason, are being bought by teams competing at a higher level then something is seriously wrong. The football is almost incidental. | | | |
| He Has Got To Go on 17:15 - Feb 27 with 1539 views | D_Alien |
| He Has Got To Go on 17:04 - Feb 27 by 442Dale |
No, I’m not saying it’s routine or that competing in the top half for three seasons means we always should be. It’s that the some of the issues we have now have been avoidable and we don’t need to be struggling as much as we have. Simply that.
Last season illustrated how to respond when mistakes are made. The much talked about, and rightly lauded, 16 game plan turned the campaign around; supporters could see a squad with as little quality as the one we currently have was a cohesive unit who all knew their roles. Whether we stayed up would have not altered the fact that we could see real progress being made from the mistakes made.
There’s enough times on here where I’ve backed the manager and the club when others have unrealistic expectations. A relegation battle and a relegation itself aren’t unexpected or unacceptable, refusing to admit we have been the masters of our own downfall is.
Of course, there is still the hope that will happen again and we see something similar to the ‘16 game plan’ again. If not, it’s worth repeating that those at the club will be fully aware of why. Right now, there’s something wrong. There really is and it’s affecting supporters to the point that some are losing interest. |
I can agree on that last point; not sure it's entirely to do with football | |
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| He Has Got To Go on 17:22 - Feb 27 with 1504 views | blackdogblue |
| He Has Got To Go on 16:49 - Feb 27 by SuddenLad |
You think Keith Hill is our worst manager ever ? Really ? He is the best manager by a distance and a double distance from being the worst. |
Whilst I agree with you somewhat it has to be said, further back in this post Perkins & Alby looked a great summer signing for the club.
I don’t believe anyone will disagree it didn’t work out, why?...
Because they are older & slower now.
My point.. Nothing lasts forever, backroom antucs & conspiracy theories aside, what used to work clearly hasn’t for the 2nd season in a row..
Take a leaf out of Grant Holts boots, admit the inevitable, time to move on & hang the flat cap & pink pants up & move on somewhere else & let someone else have a crack at it.
Whilst some hail our GME ever, he didn’t succeed at Barnsley did he when he had a budget? | |
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| He Has Got To Go on 18:17 - Feb 27 with 1422 views | scarrow |
The last 2 seasons have had common features which haven’t been addressed
Inability to defend
Slow attacking play which is too predictable
Dreadful transfer windows (even if the players signed in the summer had supporters being optimistic)
The first two points mean we have been found out and are easy to play against, opposition managers must love it - run at the defence and get plenty of crosses in = a win
Without changing the coaching and improving the recruitment I fear a mid table or worse struggle in L2 next season. |  |
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