| UK death rates... 17:36 - Mar 19 with 3245 views | DorsetIan |
Anyone heard or read anything about why UK death rates are so high?
In terms of percentage of deaths out of reported cases, we don't seem to be doing as well as other countries. For example, as of today...
UK 137 out of 2692 (5%)
US 161/11329 (1.14%)
France 262/9134 (2.89%)
Netherlands 76/2460 (3%)
Germany 43/14544 (0.2%)
In fact, looking at the numbers, it seems that only Italy and Iran have higher % death rates.
I am not trying to make a political point here. For what it's worth it seems that Johnson and the government are doing a good enough job to me and certainly their current policies can't be blamed for the fact that more people who get it are dying here than in similar countries.
Presumably we have state of the art info on how to treat the very ill? Presumably, the NHS is not yet overrun with cases?...
Of course, we could be seriously underestimating the numbers and maybe that's the answer.
Just wondered if anyone else had noticed this or had heard why it might be the case? |  |
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| UK death rates... on 17:51 - Mar 19 with 2167 views | dcbovivet |
You are right when you say it is down to underestimating the number of cases. So far we have not been testing heavily. The trues case rate is far,far higher than 2692, and it has been around a lot longer than we know too. I am totally sure that the first case diagnosed was not the first case actually present in the UK. The figures you have put up are not really very comparable to be honest because of so many factors. Not at this stage anyway. [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 18:01]
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| UK death rates... on 17:52 - Mar 19 with 2166 views | Bicester_North |
Seems you’ve used yesterday’s total infected figure but today’s updates deaths, they haven’t given the number of total infected since yesterday as far as I can see. | |
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| UK death rates... on 17:58 - Mar 19 with 2155 views | DorsetIan |
| UK death rates... on 17:52 - Mar 19 by Bicester_North |
Seems you’ve used yesterday’s total infected figure but today’s updates deaths, they haven’t given the number of total infected since yesterday as far as I can see. |
Not deliberately. I just pulled the latest figures from the site with all the stats. I have noticed the high death rates for a few days now, so not sure that increased numbers on the infected side make much of a difference to my main point. But point taken - I'm all for factual accuracy. | |
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| UK death rates... on 18:03 - Mar 19 with 2140 views | DorsetIan |
| UK death rates... on 17:51 - Mar 19 by dcbovivet |
You are right when you say it is down to underestimating the number of cases. So far we have not been testing heavily. The trues case rate is far,far higher than 2692, and it has been around a lot longer than we know too. I am totally sure that the first case diagnosed was not the first case actually present in the UK. The figures you have put up are not really very comparable to be honest because of so many factors. Not at this stage anyway. [Post edited 19 Mar 2020 18:01]
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Fair enough. I appreciate that it's early days. One issue is that the death figures aren't going to lie and even if you multiply our 'infected' number by 5 to get us near to Germany's numbers, our death rate is still 4x theirs.
Maybe this says more about their health care service though. They do seem to have an extraordinarily low death rate - mindboggling so when compared to, say, Italy. | |
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| UK death rates... on 19:31 - Mar 19 with 2063 views | Bison |
| UK death rates... on 18:03 - Mar 19 by DorsetIan |
Fair enough. I appreciate that it's early days. One issue is that the death figures aren't going to lie and even if you multiply our 'infected' number by 5 to get us near to Germany's numbers, our death rate is still 4x theirs.
Maybe this says more about their health care service though. They do seem to have an extraordinarily low death rate - mindboggling so when compared to, say, Italy. |
I'm not going to fact check my own comment but I do believe that Italy have an extremely high percentage of older people , perhaps most western countries do due to a very high standard ( whatever people comment about ) compared the rest of the world of health care. Perhaps compare the %'s of our old people to say the Chinese . |  |
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| UK death rates... on 20:51 - Mar 19 with 2011 views | DorsetIan |
| UK death rates... on 19:31 - Mar 19 by Bison |
I'm not going to fact check my own comment but I do believe that Italy have an extremely high percentage of older people , perhaps most western countries do due to a very high standard ( whatever people comment about ) compared the rest of the world of health care. Perhaps compare the %'s of our old people to say the Chinese . |
Median Age is a starting point. The age for a country where half the people are older and half younger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age
You are right, China's is around 10 years younger than German or Italy but interestingly Germany is higher than Italy.
Maybe Germany's old people are just much fitter than Italian ones? | |
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| UK death rates... on 20:54 - Mar 19 with 2006 views | Occasional_Showers |
| UK death rates... on 20:51 - Mar 19 by DorsetIan |
Median Age is a starting point. The age for a country where half the people are older and half younger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age
You are right, China's is around 10 years younger than German or Italy but interestingly Germany is higher than Italy.
Maybe Germany's old people are just much fitter than Italian ones? |
Maybe it’s the genetic difference between different races. |  |
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| UK death rates... on 21:00 - Mar 19 with 2002 views | DorsetIan |
| UK death rates... on 20:54 - Mar 19 by Occasional_Showers |
Maybe it’s the genetic difference between different races. |
What, between Germans and Italians?
Does your crackpot racial theorising know no bounds? | |
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| UK death rates... (n/t) on 21:03 - Mar 19 with 1997 views | DellHero |
| UK death rates... on 20:54 - Mar 19 by Occasional_Showers |
Maybe it’s the genetic difference between different races. |
[Post edited 9 May 2020 22:17]
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| UK death rates... on 21:07 - Mar 19 with 1991 views | Occasional_Showers |
| UK death rates... (n/t) on 21:03 - Mar 19 by DellHero |
[Post edited 9 May 2020 22:17]
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What are the rates in other Germanic countries? Is this a case of Germany doing better or Germans doing better? | |
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| UK death rates... on 21:14 - Mar 19 with 1986 views | this_charming_man |
I notice all deaths they mention they person had underlying health issues. I get they are trying to stop the panic that everyone will die from it but it's almost like making it okay for someone to die because they had other stuff wrong with them. Interestingly the only one i've seen where the media didn't say that straight away was the 45 year old bloke who died on tuesday who had a serious condition where he had already lived longer than the 2 years they gave him when he was diagnosed with whatever it was he had. | |
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| UK death rates... on 00:11 - Mar 20 with 1919 views | DorsetIan |
| UK death rates... on 21:07 - Mar 19 by Occasional_Showers |
What are the rates in other Germanic countries? Is this a case of Germany doing better or Germans doing better? |
What, for you, constitutes another ‘Germanic’ country? | |
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| UK death rates... on 05:27 - Mar 20 with 1879 views | Occasional_Showers |
| UK death rates... on 00:11 - Mar 20 by DorsetIan |
What, for you, constitutes another ‘Germanic’ country? |
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| UK death rates... on 06:42 - Mar 20 with 1856 views | Kennington |
I’m not sure how many times I’ve written this, but here goes.
To get an accurate mortality rate, you need an accurate denominator. The uk is only testing those that are either seriously ill or have been in contact with a positive. That means there is no meaningful UK stat for UK Coronavirus mortality. This is GCSE level statistics yet most people I try and explain it to, look at me blankly.
So just to clarify, you can only have a meaningful mortality rate if the uk tested a lot more. If you wanted to know how many people eat Burger King in a town but you only test outside a McDonalds, you’ll get a zero rate of people eating Burger King.
The reality is there are probably 50,000 positives right now in the uk, and that’s conservative. The vast majority probably have minimal symptoms and will never be recorded. Hence to be recorded as a positive in the uk the chance of death is already quite high. [Post edited 20 Mar 2020 6:44]
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| UK death rates... on 10:29 - Mar 20 with 1791 views | DorsetIan |
| UK death rates... on 06:42 - Mar 20 by Kennington |
I’m not sure how many times I’ve written this, but here goes.
To get an accurate mortality rate, you need an accurate denominator. The uk is only testing those that are either seriously ill or have been in contact with a positive. That means there is no meaningful UK stat for UK Coronavirus mortality. This is GCSE level statistics yet most people I try and explain it to, look at me blankly.
So just to clarify, you can only have a meaningful mortality rate if the uk tested a lot more. If you wanted to know how many people eat Burger King in a town but you only test outside a McDonalds, you’ll get a zero rate of people eating Burger King.
The reality is there are probably 50,000 positives right now in the uk, and that’s conservative. The vast majority probably have minimal symptoms and will never be recorded. Hence to be recorded as a positive in the uk the chance of death is already quite high. [Post edited 20 Mar 2020 6:44]
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That's fine and I get that.
You could take from that it is completely impossible to make any comparison unless for each 'denominator' you have the information about how and how many people are being tested.
On the other hand, is it not reasonable to assume that - give or take clear exceptions (I understand for example that South Korea has done far more testing that other countries, and the US were being criticised for not doing enough) - the level of testing across the globe is broadly similar, in which case it is possible to make broad comparisons.
Or do you know that we are testing to an order of magnitude less than all other countries? | |
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| UK death rates... on 10:43 - Mar 20 with 1775 views | DorsetIan |
OK, so if you limit your definition of the 'Germanic' race to Germany, Austria, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, they all have low death rates at present.
For the English, Swiss, Dutch and Belgium, the rates are average or poor.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
A superior Germanic race - you might be on to something...
(P.S. 25% of the population of Germany are not ethnic Germans) | |
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| UK death rates... on 10:55 - Mar 20 with 1767 views | franniesTache |
Anyone who's interested in the pure numbers (instead of bias, political posturing and Dune's standard blame the foreigners cr*p) this twitter account is a must to follow
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| UK death rates... on 11:28 - Mar 20 with 1733 views | DorsetIan |
I think all the decent data is coming from the same John Hopkins University source.
Apart from Ignatius' racial detour, I think the discussion on this thread has been pretty apolitical so far.
I do wonder how we would all be coping with this virus without the internet and social media. We have access to so much information. And social media and access to online entertainment is going to keep us all sane through the difficult periods of isolation.
It's going out into the world which is now the scary part. I was in Tesco this morning. One man pretty much coughed in my face. Another woman was standing in the aisle blowing her now on a tatty old tissue. The dim are always with us. | |
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| UK death rates... on 12:12 - Mar 20 with 1705 views | Boris_ |
Amazes me that people even ask this question. Each nation has different rules on how they test and how they report. Then you have the likes of China who are blatantly lying.
Germany for example are only reporting deaths from Coronavirus only if there is no severe/life-limited underlying medical conditions. For example if someone has lung cancer and Corona finishes them off then the cause of death is put down as lung cancer - hence the low mortality rate.
As another poster says, they believe there is more than 50,000 positive cases in the UK at the moment.
The numbers of cases means f*ck all. |  |
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| UK death rates... on 12:31 - Mar 20 with 1690 views | Marcus_y |
| UK death rates... on 12:12 - Mar 20 by Boris_ |
Amazes me that people even ask this question. Each nation has different rules on how they test and how they report. Then you have the likes of China who are blatantly lying.
Germany for example are only reporting deaths from Coronavirus only if there is no severe/life-limited underlying medical conditions. For example if someone has lung cancer and Corona finishes them off then the cause of death is put down as lung cancer - hence the low mortality rate.
As another poster says, they believe there is more than 50,000 positive cases in the UK at the moment.
The numbers of cases means f*ck all. |
I can tell you without doubt Thailand and Cambodia are lying also. In saying that, in Thailand they are charging anywhere around 500 quid for a test, so most Thai's will not bother as that is a month's salary. I am in mighty Bangkok right now and all the bars, nightclubs and a lot of restaurants are shut. Yet they claim only something ike 300 odd cases? Asean countries are always very economical with the truth if it makes them look bad. Assume figures here are at least on a par with Europe. |  |
| You're nothing but a lot of talk n'a' badge. |
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| UK death rates... on 12:55 - Mar 20 with 1664 views | Ingskneeslide |
| UK death rates... on 12:31 - Mar 20 by Marcus_y |
I can tell you without doubt Thailand and Cambodia are lying also. In saying that, in Thailand they are charging anywhere around 500 quid for a test, so most Thai's will not bother as that is a month's salary. I am in mighty Bangkok right now and all the bars, nightclubs and a lot of restaurants are shut. Yet they claim only something ike 300 odd cases? Asean countries are always very economical with the truth if it makes them look bad. Assume figures here are at least on a par with Europe. |
How do you know so much about what’s going on in Thailand pal if you don’t mind me asking? | | | |
| UK death rates... on 13:00 - Mar 20 with 1661 views | DorsetIan |
| UK death rates... on 12:12 - Mar 20 by Boris_ |
Amazes me that people even ask this question. Each nation has different rules on how they test and how they report. Then you have the likes of China who are blatantly lying.
Germany for example are only reporting deaths from Coronavirus only if there is no severe/life-limited underlying medical conditions. For example if someone has lung cancer and Corona finishes them off then the cause of death is put down as lung cancer - hence the low mortality rate.
As another poster says, they believe there is more than 50,000 positive cases in the UK at the moment.
The numbers of cases means f*ck all. |
You're suggesting that Germany are under reporting their corona related deaths, which I haven't read anywhere else. Where did you get that info from?
This article suggests that the Germans are testing more and therefore are detecting mild cases which other countries aren't.
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-germany-death-rate-confirmed-cases-2 | |
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| UK death rates... on 13:02 - Mar 20 with 1658 views | Marcus_y |
| UK death rates... on 12:55 - Mar 20 by Ingskneeslide |
How do you know so much about what’s going on in Thailand pal if you don’t mind me asking? |
Are you serious? Wanna read my post again? | |
| You're nothing but a lot of talk n'a' badge. |
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| UK death rates... on 13:10 - Mar 20 with 1648 views | this_charming_man |
| UK death rates... on 12:31 - Mar 20 by Marcus_y |
I can tell you without doubt Thailand and Cambodia are lying also. In saying that, in Thailand they are charging anywhere around 500 quid for a test, so most Thai's will not bother as that is a month's salary. I am in mighty Bangkok right now and all the bars, nightclubs and a lot of restaurants are shut. Yet they claim only something ike 300 odd cases? Asean countries are always very economical with the truth if it makes them look bad. Assume figures here are at least on a par with Europe. |
are the brothels open? | |
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