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Diversity Targets for Managers... 17:39 - Jul 29 with 2410 viewsChesham_Saint

A good idea?

I think I have a fair idea which way this debate might go...

Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 17:53 - Jul 29 with 1333 viewsDorsetIan

!!...

And just as peace was breaking out too...

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 17:55 - Jul 29 with 1330 viewsChesham_Saint

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 17:53 - Jul 29 by DorsetIan

!!...

And just as peace was breaking out too...



Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 18:29 - Jul 29 with 1298 viewsSaintsforeverj

What happens if a club doesn't achieve the target. Let's say Ralph couldn't find a gay, black, striker who answers to the name of Tracy? Or we do find her, but she isn't good enough?
[Post edited 29 Jul 2020 18:30]

Poll: Would you like Ings to come back?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 18:31 - Jul 29 with 1289 viewskernow

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 18:29 - Jul 29 by Saintsforeverj

What happens if a club doesn't achieve the target. Let's say Ralph couldn't find a gay, black, striker who answers to the name of Tracy? Or we do find her, but she isn't good enough?
[Post edited 29 Jul 2020 18:30]


12 point deduction.
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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 18:41 - Jul 29 with 1266 viewsSaintsforeverj

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 18:31 - Jul 29 by kernow

12 point deduction.


Might work but then clubs would play the system. They would pretend that they do have the player that the authorities want them to have.

Poll: Would you like Ings to come back?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 20:40 - Jul 29 with 1186 viewsDorsetIan

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 18:41 - Jul 29 by Saintsforeverj

Might work but then clubs would play the system. They would pretend that they do have the player that the authorities want them to have.


Footballers are queuing up to pretend to be gay...wait, have I got that the right way around?...
[Post edited 29 Jul 2020 20:41]

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 20:58 - Jul 29 with 1168 viewsSadoldgit

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 18:29 - Jul 29 by Saintsforeverj

What happens if a club doesn't achieve the target. Let's say Ralph couldn't find a gay, black, striker who answers to the name of Tracy? Or we do find her, but she isn't good enough?
[Post edited 29 Jul 2020 18:30]


Now you are just being silly. Of course the names won’t matter so long as the right number of chromosomes and DNA profile are in place. The chances of finding a quality striker called Tracy will be quite small.
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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 21:07 - Jul 29 with 1161 viewsSaintsforeverj

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 20:40 - Jul 29 by DorsetIan

Footballers are queuing up to pretend to be gay...wait, have I got that the right way around?...
[Post edited 29 Jul 2020 20:41]


If we have a target, that says something like 50 per cent of the team must be gay, they will have to ensure that 50 per cent are. What diversity targets are they suggesting we have?
[Post edited 29 Jul 2020 21:08]

Poll: Would you like Ings to come back?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 21:08 - Jul 29 with 1159 viewsSaintsforeverj

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 20:58 - Jul 29 by Sadoldgit

Now you are just being silly. Of course the names won’t matter so long as the right number of chromosomes and DNA profile are in place. The chances of finding a quality striker called Tracy will be quite small.


Defenders?

Poll: Would you like Ings to come back?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 21:13 - Jul 29 with 1142 viewsChesham_Saint

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 21:08 - Jul 29 by Saintsforeverj

Defenders?


I think self identifying has to be the way forward here. For example, a number of our players have been self identifying as centre backs (even though they’re clearly not) but we just have to Accept it. It’s what they want. And that’s what counts.

Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 22:08 - Jul 29 with 1101 viewskingslandstand1

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 21:13 - Jul 29 by Chesham_Saint

I think self identifying has to be the way forward here. For example, a number of our players have been self identifying as centre backs (even though they’re clearly not) but we just have to Accept it. It’s what they want. And that’s what counts.


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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 22:39 - Jul 29 with 1077 viewsChesham_Saint

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 22:08 - Jul 29 by kingslandstand1



On the other hand pompey will definitely hit their sexual equality quota targets as the last time I saw them they play they had a complete bunch of cvnts in their first team....

I’ll get my coat...

Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 09:13 - Jul 30 with 995 viewsGasGiant

Oner serious consequence of any attempt at quotas would be the final nail in the coffin of cup competitions. All the <insert minority here> players necessary to fulfil quotas would be selected for cup games without having to compromise the precious league games. So that's the FA Cup and the League Cup and maybe even the Europa Cup as well all gone forever as serious competitions. And those drinks breaks will stay as well for the TV advertising opportunities. Football just gets worse and worse.
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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 09:19 - Jul 30 with 992 viewsChesham_Saint

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 09:13 - Jul 30 by GasGiant

Oner serious consequence of any attempt at quotas would be the final nail in the coffin of cup competitions. All the <insert minority here> players necessary to fulfil quotas would be selected for cup games without having to compromise the precious league games. So that's the FA Cup and the League Cup and maybe even the Europa Cup as well all gone forever as serious competitions. And those drinks breaks will stay as well for the TV advertising opportunities. Football just gets worse and worse.


Actually my original intention with this thread was not quotas for players where clearly there is already a considerable amount of “minority” participation. Rather, I was thinking of managers. Currently 5 out of 92 are non-white and this is what the Kick it Out honchos were concerned about.

Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 10:51 - Jul 30 with 969 viewsDorsetIan

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 09:19 - Jul 30 by Chesham_Saint

Actually my original intention with this thread was not quotas for players where clearly there is already a considerable amount of “minority” participation. Rather, I was thinking of managers. Currently 5 out of 92 are non-white and this is what the Kick it Out honchos were concerned about.


It's clear that there is a disproportionate number of black managers across the leagues, especially when compared to the number of black players.

As each team is a different legal entity, I think it would be impossible to enforce a quota. (Memo to Leyton Orient: 'The leagues are one manager short of their quota, your next manager must be black').

But that's not to say that the leagues can't try to do something. If you're in HR you'll know more about this than me, but I don't find that idea of encouraging clubs to always have diverse shortlists (for all jobs) objectionable. Even getting clubs to simply report on the backgrounds of interviewees provides a bit of peer pressure and helps to move things a little. I also don't know how much of this is already being done.

What is you position on 'positive discrimination'? I know that some object to it in principle.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 11:51 - Jul 30 with 958 viewsChesham_Saint

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 10:51 - Jul 30 by DorsetIan

It's clear that there is a disproportionate number of black managers across the leagues, especially when compared to the number of black players.

As each team is a different legal entity, I think it would be impossible to enforce a quota. (Memo to Leyton Orient: 'The leagues are one manager short of their quota, your next manager must be black').

But that's not to say that the leagues can't try to do something. If you're in HR you'll know more about this than me, but I don't find that idea of encouraging clubs to always have diverse shortlists (for all jobs) objectionable. Even getting clubs to simply report on the backgrounds of interviewees provides a bit of peer pressure and helps to move things a little. I also don't know how much of this is already being done.

What is you position on 'positive discrimination'? I know that some object to it in principle.


I’m not in HR any more. I don’t like discrimination of any sort “positive” or otherwise.

I did admit to deliberate discrimination once and that was when being cross examined by a tribunal at the Commission For Racial Equality, but that’s another story.

Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 11:57 - Jul 30 with 952 viewsDorsetIan

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 11:51 - Jul 30 by Chesham_Saint

I’m not in HR any more. I don’t like discrimination of any sort “positive” or otherwise.

I did admit to deliberate discrimination once and that was when being cross examined by a tribunal at the Commission For Racial Equality, but that’s another story.


I'm guessing that admitting to discrimination in that context might not have been the best move.

I see the objections to 'positive discrimination' but I'm not sure what else proactively can be done. Waiting for something to happen doesn't seem to have worked that well.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 12:14 - Jul 30 with 943 viewsChesham_Saint

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 11:57 - Jul 30 by DorsetIan

I'm guessing that admitting to discrimination in that context might not have been the best move.

I see the objections to 'positive discrimination' but I'm not sure what else proactively can be done. Waiting for something to happen doesn't seem to have worked that well.


Yes I did admit discrimination. The CRE panel asked me if the company had any proven cases of discrimination. I said no. They were incredulous as they thought I’d just roll over and admit to it (they were desperate for heads on poles - although I still don’t know what our Warsaw branch had done wrong...j.

Eager to please as ever, I said “hang on, I can think of where we do discriminate” and the immediate look of pleasure crossing their little po-faces was a joy to behold.

“A-ha!” Said the chairman, “how and where!?”

“Our company football team” said I. “I’m the manager and I select on the basis of talent...”

They weren’t impressed. I packed up my case files, my copy of the Big Issue, that day’s edition of the Guardian and left.

And they never did find any other evidence of discrimination.

Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 12:37 - Jul 30 with 932 viewsDorsetIan

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 12:14 - Jul 30 by Chesham_Saint

Yes I did admit discrimination. The CRE panel asked me if the company had any proven cases of discrimination. I said no. They were incredulous as they thought I’d just roll over and admit to it (they were desperate for heads on poles - although I still don’t know what our Warsaw branch had done wrong...j.

Eager to please as ever, I said “hang on, I can think of where we do discriminate” and the immediate look of pleasure crossing their little po-faces was a joy to behold.

“A-ha!” Said the chairman, “how and where!?”

“Our company football team” said I. “I’m the manager and I select on the basis of talent...”

They weren’t impressed. I packed up my case files, my copy of the Big Issue, that day’s edition of the Guardian and left.

And they never did find any other evidence of discrimination.


Nice to get one over Rumpole of the Bailey.

And clever touches to take the Big Issue and The Guardian with you. You'd won the case, just by walking in carrying those.

My first appearance before a judge, I made the mistake of asking him: 'can you please run that by me again' when he'd given me the answer I didn't want. His clerk phoned the firm to complain that I needed to learn some manners.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 12:43 - Jul 30 with 929 viewsChesham_Saint

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 12:37 - Jul 30 by DorsetIan

Nice to get one over Rumpole of the Bailey.

And clever touches to take the Big Issue and The Guardian with you. You'd won the case, just by walking in carrying those.

My first appearance before a judge, I made the mistake of asking him: 'can you please run that by me again' when he'd given me the answer I didn't want. His clerk phoned the firm to complain that I needed to learn some manners.


Your first appearance before a judge? I’m not surprised you asked him to run that by you again. Deportation to the Colonies is a serious punishment after all....

Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 13:34 - Jul 30 with 916 viewsDorsetIan

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 12:43 - Jul 30 by Chesham_Saint

Your first appearance before a judge? I’m not surprised you asked him to run that by you again. Deportation to the Colonies is a serious punishment after all....


Nothing so exciting. Doing work experience at a law firm and had found an exciting and obscure way in which a divorce petition could be issued. The judge (idiot) disagreed with my legal analysis, didn't appreciate me trying to point out the errors in his reasoning, and thought I was being a condescending smart arse...

...I'm glad that those days are behind me.

Poll: Should we try to replace Selles for the final seven games?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 14:29 - Jul 30 with 897 viewsSadoldgit

To me positive discrimination is still discrimination. The trouble is we need to find a quick and effective way of levelling up the playing field and there aren’t any ways of doing that that don’t bend the rules a bit.
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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 14:37 - Jul 30 with 888 viewsChesham_Saint

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 14:29 - Jul 30 by Sadoldgit

To me positive discrimination is still discrimination. The trouble is we need to find a quick and effective way of levelling up the playing field and there aren’t any ways of doing that that don’t bend the rules a bit.


What really rankles is “XX only” lists.

Make sure people believe they can apply (women in engineering, for example), prohibit out-dated behaviour (sexist comments - and by that I mean the likes of “nice tits, love” as opposed to complementing someone on a new haircut).

Clearly show that if someone is good enough and works hard they can make it. All of the senior women or ethnic people in senior positions I know didn’t get where they are because of a false premise and as a result they can look anyone in the eye knowing they’re there on merit.

Poll: Which manager would you prefer Saints to have?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 16:17 - Jul 30 with 847 viewsInsideOut

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 18:41 - Jul 29 by Saintsforeverj

Might work but then clubs would play the system. They would pretend that they do have the player that the authorities want them to have.


Danny Rose could be good value

Poll: WTF is a little pompey ?

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Diversity Targets for Managers... on 22:35 - Jul 30 with 789 viewsRon11

Diversity Targets for Managers... on 14:37 - Jul 30 by Chesham_Saint

What really rankles is “XX only” lists.

Make sure people believe they can apply (women in engineering, for example), prohibit out-dated behaviour (sexist comments - and by that I mean the likes of “nice tits, love” as opposed to complementing someone on a new haircut).

Clearly show that if someone is good enough and works hard they can make it. All of the senior women or ethnic people in senior positions I know didn’t get where they are because of a false premise and as a result they can look anyone in the eye knowing they’re there on merit.


Merit is the key, whatever colour or gender.
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