| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal 13:16 - Jan 29 with 2917 views | Berber |
From the redacted bits published, it looks like the first 100m by Q1 are "Best Reasonable Efforts" which as usual means just that. The "Binding" statement is in the paragraph about the total initial commitment to buy 300m.
Based on the b0llocks from the EU Justice Minister slagging off the UK, it looks like he knows that they haven't really got a leg to stand on and is trying to levelage emotional blackmail to make us give up some of the UK vaccine volume, which is more tightly legally committed to. Dare I suggest that the mighty EU contract negotiators have been well and truly tupped? These are the people who were mocking the UK as we had "no suitable experience of negotiating contracts" before Brexit. |  | | |  |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 14:53 - Jan 29 with 1860 views | DellHero_Would |
The UK has the 5th largest economy.
I spoke to the owner of an SME a year or so prior to the referendum. The Trade & Industry Minister at the time had been to visit the plant in the Midlands earlier that week.
This chap who owned the company was in favour of leaving the EU. He said that during the conversation with the Minister, he pointed out the amount of bureaucracy his company had to comply with to sell into Europe due to being part of the EU at the time.
His view was that companies outside the EU, Japan, US for example had an unfair advantage with lower costs to produce and import into the block as a result.
Whether that is true or not I don't know. But it was interesting to hear the view from someone who actually runs a successful business with a large percentage of their business going to other EU countries. |  |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:13 - Jan 29 with 1831 views | Saintsforeverj |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 14:53 - Jan 29 by DellHero_Would |
The UK has the 5th largest economy.
I spoke to the owner of an SME a year or so prior to the referendum. The Trade & Industry Minister at the time had been to visit the plant in the Midlands earlier that week.
This chap who owned the company was in favour of leaving the EU. He said that during the conversation with the Minister, he pointed out the amount of bureaucracy his company had to comply with to sell into Europe due to being part of the EU at the time.
His view was that companies outside the EU, Japan, US for example had an unfair advantage with lower costs to produce and import into the block as a result.
Whether that is true or not I don't know. But it was interesting to hear the view from someone who actually runs a successful business with a large percentage of their business going to other EU countries. |
We will find a way, we will have to! But you are right, being part of the EU created a lot of paper work and bureaucracy.
I know for fact that cleaning companies I worked with, had to change their hoovers to meet EU safety standards. It was a pain for them to have to do it. I am confident that just like the vaccine situation, that just being able to make our own decisions and not having to confer with 27 other countries will logically be easier. In the EU, over the last few years, paper work for teachers, police officers, cleaners and most, paper work was rediculous. Teachers spending more time filling out forms than teaching, just being a relevant example. Was it because we were in the EU?
Who knows but I'm willing to and want to see what life is like outside of it. Already, we quickly got our vaccine out, because we arnt in the EU. That's a good start. It will take a bit of time to sort things out, but in the end I think we will be better off. I know some might disagree, but what's the point? We have left, it's done. The vaccine rollout is an example of some of the good that might come from being outside the EU. Nissan is still here, the roof hasn't caved in, we have a deal, food prices haven't gone up, we will be fine. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 15:18]
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:18 - Jan 29 with 1817 views | Heisenberg |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:13 - Jan 29 by Saintsforeverj |
We will find a way, we will have to! But you are right, being part of the EU created a lot of paper work and bureaucracy.
I know for fact that cleaning companies I worked with, had to change their hoovers to meet EU safety standards. It was a pain for them to have to do it. I am confident that just like the vaccine situation, that just being able to make our own decisions and not having to confer with 27 other countries will logically be easier. In the EU, over the last few years, paper work for teachers, police officers, cleaners and most, paper work was rediculous. Teachers spending more time filling out forms than teaching, just being a relevant example. Was it because we were in the EU?
Who knows but I'm willing to and want to see what life is like outside of it. Already, we quickly got our vaccine out, because we arnt in the EU. That's a good start. It will take a bit of time to sort things out, but in the end I think we will be better off. I know some might disagree, but what's the point? We have left, it's done. The vaccine rollout is an example of some of the good that might come from being outside the EU. Nissan is still here, the roof hasn't caved in, we have a deal, food prices haven't gone up, we will be fine. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 15:18]
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Could you explain how teachers filling out more forms is down the EU? |  |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:22 - Jan 29 with 1807 views | Saintsforeverj |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:18 - Jan 29 by Heisenberg |
Could you explain how teachers filling out more forms is down the EU? |
Nope, I can just say that being in the EU hasn't helped to reduce it. Paper work for all, has gone up a crazy amount. The lives and opportunities for poorer people in the UK have not improved in the EU. That's why places like Sunderland voted out. Being in the the EU, gave them nothing. So let's see if being outside the EU makes a difference. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 15:23]
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:28 - Jan 29 with 1785 views | Heisenberg |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:22 - Jan 29 by Saintsforeverj |
Nope, I can just say that being in the EU hasn't helped to reduce it. Paper work for all, has gone up a crazy amount. The lives and opportunities for poorer people in the UK have not improved in the EU. That's why places like Sunderland voted out. Being in the the EU, gave them nothing. So let's see if being outside the EU makes a difference. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 15:23]
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Why would being in the EU reduce teachers paperwork ? It's got absolutely nothing to do with the EU. | |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:32 - Jan 29 with 1783 views | DellHero_Would |
Its a case of that most accurate of cliches "Time will tell", to say whether Brexit is a success of not will take at least 5 years in my view.
It does make me laugh that a percentage of those who voted to remain would almost have us all back living in caves as a result of Brexit just so they can say "Well I told you so"
There are plusses and negatives to it no doubt. Overall in the long run my view is, the UK will prosper and other member states will follow suit. | |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:34 - Jan 29 with 1776 views | Saintsforeverj |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:28 - Jan 29 by Heisenberg |
Why would being in the EU reduce teachers paperwork ? It's got absolutely nothing to do with the EU. |
EU health and safety laws created a huge amount of paper work for all. I know this as I work in the area. An example is the that the Oxford vaccine hasn't been approved in the EU until today. We approved it a couple of months ago. Why hasn't the EU approved it? Well because they wanted to do a million health and safety checks to make sure it's safe. So we have got our vaccines rolled out, they haven't. Now apply this to other professions, which I know are tied up with red tape, particularly health and safety laws, which we can decide on now. They may or may not stay, but it will be our choice, just like the quick vaccine rollout. | |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:40 - Jan 29 with 1765 views | Heisenberg |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:34 - Jan 29 by Saintsforeverj |
EU health and safety laws created a huge amount of paper work for all. I know this as I work in the area. An example is the that the Oxford vaccine hasn't been approved in the EU until today. We approved it a couple of months ago. Why hasn't the EU approved it? Well because they wanted to do a million health and safety checks to make sure it's safe. So we have got our vaccines rolled out, they haven't. Now apply this to other professions, which I know are tied up with red tape, particularly health and safety laws, which we can decide on now. They may or may not stay, but it will be our choice, just like the quick vaccine rollout. |
Accept it. Your assertion that increased paperwork for teachers etc is because of EU requirements is quite frankly ridiculous. I've heard some stupid arguments on both sides and that one is up there. | |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:46 - Jan 29 with 1750 views | Saintsforeverj |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:40 - Jan 29 by Heisenberg |
Accept it. Your assertion that increased paperwork for teachers etc is because of EU requirements is quite frankly ridiculous. I've heard some stupid arguments on both sides and that one is up there. |
No I won't accept it. In the EU, paper work has been crazy. The vaccine rollout being the clear example. Let's see if being outside makes a difference. It may or may not, but I suspect it will. That's just a small part of it. The main point is that you should accept that one of the poorest areas in the UK, voted to leave because being in the EU has not done them any favours. It's not just rich people or rich areas. It's poorer areas, who have seen their lives get worse in the EU too. And you should accept, we have left. If you don't, well there isn't anything you can do about it. We have left. And the accept that being out of the EU has enabled us to have an excellent vaccine rollout. Food prices haven't gone up, the roof hasn't caved in, you accept that! [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 15:47]
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 16:04 - Jan 29 with 1720 views | Heisenberg |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 15:46 - Jan 29 by Saintsforeverj |
No I won't accept it. In the EU, paper work has been crazy. The vaccine rollout being the clear example. Let's see if being outside makes a difference. It may or may not, but I suspect it will. That's just a small part of it. The main point is that you should accept that one of the poorest areas in the UK, voted to leave because being in the EU has not done them any favours. It's not just rich people or rich areas. It's poorer areas, who have seen their lives get worse in the EU too. And you should accept, we have left. If you don't, well there isn't anything you can do about it. We have left. And the accept that being out of the EU has enabled us to have an excellent vaccine rollout. Food prices haven't gone up, the roof hasn't caved in, you accept that! [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 15:47]
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I accept we have left the EU. And before you say it yes I am over it. I don't agree with it but hope for the sake of the next generation that it isn't the disaster that I think it will be. I hope I am wrong. What I don't accept is idiotic ill informed and simply wrong statements that somehow increased paperwork for teachers is down to the EU. As I have said on three occasions it's absolutely nothing to do with the EU. | |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 16:13 - Jan 29 with 1704 views | Saintsforeverj |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 16:04 - Jan 29 by Heisenberg |
I accept we have left the EU. And before you say it yes I am over it. I don't agree with it but hope for the sake of the next generation that it isn't the disaster that I think it will be. I hope I am wrong. What I don't accept is idiotic ill informed and simply wrong statements that somehow increased paperwork for teachers is down to the EU. As I have said on three occasions it's absolutely nothing to do with the EU. |
You have misunderstood. I said that paper work has increased to rediculous levels, during the period in which we were in the EU. So being out, may change this. It may not, but it might. Same for the miserable lives people have been living in Sunderland in the EU, it couldn't get any worse, so they voted out. Their lives may or may not improve but according to them, look it up, their lives couldn't be any worse. As for not agreeing with it, that's fine but why don't you think getting the vaccines out quickly because we are out of the EU is a good thing? Food prices haven't gone up, Nissan stayed etc, we got a deal that many said we couldn't get. Do these not make you think that things could be ok? [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 16:15]
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 18:14 - Jan 29 with 1625 views | 1885_SFC |
So, in a nutshell, AstraZeneca reached a preliminary deal with Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands - a group known as the 'Inclusive Vaccine Alliance' - on June 13th... but the EU insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance cannot formalise the deal. Cue lots of EU red tape, bureaucracy and dithering... fast forward a further 2 months to August... when the EU finally decides that it does require millions of doses after all.
That's what happens when you have to wait for 26 countries to agree on something.
When the UK does finally start shipping the covid vaccine to Europe in millions of vials - I wonder if it too will get held up for days on end with border checks like recent British seafood, cheese & fish consignments?
Strangely enough - I somewhat doubt it... |  |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 18:47 - Jan 29 with 1590 views | kernow |
Lots of the usual supposition, speculation and prejudices presented as nailed on facts.
Is anyone on here actually itk?
Thought not. | | | |
| EU - Astra Zeneca DealAstrs on 20:06 - Jan 29 with 1542 views | kernow |
An APA was signed in August irrespective of what preceded it.
Why can't they deliver as they have contracted to do?
Has someone bought up all the stock? | | | |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 20:23 - Jan 29 with 1517 views | Saintsforeverj |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 18:14 - Jan 29 by 1885_SFC |
So, in a nutshell, AstraZeneca reached a preliminary deal with Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands - a group known as the 'Inclusive Vaccine Alliance' - on June 13th... but the EU insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance cannot formalise the deal. Cue lots of EU red tape, bureaucracy and dithering... fast forward a further 2 months to August... when the EU finally decides that it does require millions of doses after all.
That's what happens when you have to wait for 26 countries to agree on something.
When the UK does finally start shipping the covid vaccine to Europe in millions of vials - I wonder if it too will get held up for days on end with border checks like recent British seafood, cheese & fish consignments?
Strangely enough - I somewhat doubt it... |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442
Quite right. Now the EU showing their true colours. "An incredible act of hostility." "Aggressive and shameful". That's how their behaviour is being described. I don't doubt it. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 20:26]
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 20:48 - Jan 29 with 1490 views | kernow |
Where's my vaccine? | | | |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 21:04 - Jan 29 with 1460 views | JaySaint |
I think we should do the right thing and rescue Ireland by providing them the vaccine.
No doubt, the EU will ban them from using it..
however, the EU has achieved an astonishing thing today....they actually united Sinn Fein and the DUP. Amazing!!! [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 21:09]
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:08 - Jan 29 with 1417 views | Bison |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 20:48 - Jan 29 by kernow |
Where's my vaccine? |
I thought you had quit the UK in favour of Benidorm . You tried the Benidorm Palace ?
Question Time was quite funny last night with the audience on Zoom. They were discussing should the EU get a share of our vaccines and who would willingly give up theirs to send to our friends in the EU. One or two put their hands up , then 3 or 4 more then everyone feaverushly looking around until eventually almost everyone put their hands up.
Hilarious , when they get the letter saying thank you for your kind spiritedness your appointment has been delayed and Monsieur LaPue thanksyou gracefully. P.S please stay in isolation for the next 6 months. |  |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:25 - Jan 29 with 1397 views | kernow |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:08 - Jan 29 by Bison |
I thought you had quit the UK in favour of Benidorm . You tried the Benidorm Palace ?
Question Time was quite funny last night with the audience on Zoom. They were discussing should the EU get a share of our vaccines and who would willingly give up theirs to send to our friends in the EU. One or two put their hands up , then 3 or 4 more then everyone feaverushly looking around until eventually almost everyone put their hands up.
Hilarious , when they get the letter saying thank you for your kind spiritedness your appointment has been delayed and Monsieur LaPue thanksyou gracefully. P.S please stay in isolation for the next 6 months. |
Like everybody, I will probably have to isolate for 6 months but that's ok. I don't much like people anyway.
If vaccines are unavailable where I am then, as a UK taxpayer, freeholder and OAP with underlying health issues, I'll just have turn up at the local surgery in Cornwall for my jab.
Of course this all depends on me not dying beforehand. | | | |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:29 - Jan 29 with 1392 views | Bison |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:25 - Jan 29 by kernow |
Like everybody, I will probably have to isolate for 6 months but that's ok. I don't much like people anyway.
If vaccines are unavailable where I am then, as a UK taxpayer, freeholder and OAP with underlying health issues, I'll just have turn up at the local surgery in Cornwall for my jab.
Of course this all depends on me not dying beforehand. |
Must be an uproar in Spain not sure how true but it said on the news that they had wasted 20% of their vaccines due to them using the wrong needles. You intend flying back to Blighty then heading back to the EU after your had your jab here ? | |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:40 - Jan 29 with 1380 views | kernow |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:29 - Jan 29 by Bison |
Must be an uproar in Spain not sure how true but it said on the news that they had wasted 20% of their vaccines due to them using the wrong needles. You intend flying back to Blighty then heading back to the EU after your had your jab here ? |
Si senor.
Like to court a bit of controversy. | | | |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:46 - Jan 29 with 1374 views | Bison |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:40 - Jan 29 by kernow |
Si senor.
Like to court a bit of controversy. |
Good on you , you paid U.K. Tax all your life you deserve a vaccine as much as anyone. If they shut the air corridors perhaps the Cornish fisherman could fire up their traditional age old past time of smuggling.
Best take your big coat , those caves are cold and damp !
Good luck to you mate , stay safe. | |
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| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:52 - Jan 29 with 1369 views | kernow |
| EU - Astra Zeneca Deal on 22:46 - Jan 29 by Bison |
Good on you , you paid U.K. Tax all your life you deserve a vaccine as much as anyone. If they shut the air corridors perhaps the Cornish fisherman could fire up their traditional age old past time of smuggling.
Best take your big coat , those caves are cold and damp !
Good luck to you mate , stay safe. |
You too compadre.
Muchas Gracias. | | | |
| EU - Astra Zeneca DealAstrs on 06:24 - Jan 30 with 1294 views | Berber |
| EU - Astra Zeneca DealAstrs on 20:06 - Jan 29 by kernow |
An APA was signed in August irrespective of what preceded it.
Why can't they deliver as they have contracted to do?
Has someone bought up all the stock? |
They no doubt will, they are within the terms of the contract that they both agreed and signed. The EU have done an appalling job of negotiating, mostly by allowing themselves to get boxed in by being months late to the table and stuck with the Best Reasonable Efforts condition for the initial 100 million doses for Q1. Anyone who has had dealings with commercial supply contracts ( and there must be hundreds of thousands within Europe) knows that Best Reasonable Efforts cannot effectively be enforced without showing either malicious intent or gross negligence. neither of these would appear to be the case here.
However, the fact that a later paragraph refers to the 300 million total (with a further 100 million optional) being binding to a later date shows that the negotiators knew exactly what they were having to accept. There would not need to be a separate paragraph with different conditions if it was all to be under the same legal rules and constraints.
It was easily foreseeable that early volumes (especially larger ones) would be at most risk in terms of availability, so getting in first with tighter, more secure agreements was a better strategy, which is exactly what the UK government did. | | | |
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