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Infection and hospital rates climbing rapidly. Death rates projected at 200 per day. Nearly 4m people at serious risk. New information coming out about the problems Covid cause the body if it doesn’t kill you. People laid up for the best part of a year with serious complications. Concern over the AstraZenica vaccine. Is it really wise to lift most of the restrictions on Monday? We have been told that we aren’t going back into another lockdown situation no matter what, but Whitty seems to think it might have to be on the cards.
[Post edited 18 Jul 2021 9:29]
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Third Covid Wave on 11:06 - Jul 31 with 1366 views
Political claptrap. Its really about protecting the public from a killer disease, even protecting loonies who won’t have the vaccine yet circulate amongst us.
You are so far in the sheep pen that you don't even recognize how many freedoms you have lost and are going to lose. Your overlords must be very proud of you.
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Third Covid Wave on 12:55 - Jul 31 with 1318 views
You are so far in the sheep pen that you don't even recognize how many freedoms you have lost and are going to lose. Your overlords must be very proud of you.
And yet where was the outcry when Johnson stuck two fingers up to our Democratic system by shutting down Parliament? As for our freedoms. not much good to you if you are dead. Even back in the dark ages they understood that there are times when you have to forgo certain freedoms for the greater good. During this pandemic I watched more “live” football than ever before so there was also an element of swings and roundabouts. More people are now finding that they can work from home now. Is that not a freedom? I am sure people can think of more pluses that have come out of this dreadful situation.
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Third Covid Wave on 13:39 - Jul 31 with 1296 views
And yet where was the outcry when Johnson stuck two fingers up to our Democratic system by shutting down Parliament? As for our freedoms. not much good to you if you are dead. Even back in the dark ages they understood that there are times when you have to forgo certain freedoms for the greater good. During this pandemic I watched more “live” football than ever before so there was also an element of swings and roundabouts. More people are now finding that they can work from home now. Is that not a freedom? I am sure people can think of more pluses that have come out of this dreadful situation.
Labour have shut down parliament also. Im sure you were equally outraged by it.
When did Labour shut down parliament and why? Just curious that's all.
Latest studies out of Israel show that natural immunity is far better than a vaccine immunity. Lets cut the kids some slack , we have already reached herd immunity levels for the over 40's ( 85% + ).
Let the young'uns catch it naturally , I gotta agree with some on here that we are at a dangerous stage now , just because the old are worried but double jabbed they seem to want to force the young to comply. I'll tell you what , lets avoid nightclubs eh us old fogeys ?
Let the kids enjoy life again and we shouldnt be so jealous of them.
1 in 3 people get cancer. Now that is something to be worried about. Just get on with life. The average age of death is higher than life expectancy itself!! Yes some are extremely unlucky. That applies to health in general. Sick of being scared of something I am unlikely to get and even more unlikely to be ill with.
1 in 3 get cancer over a lifetime, not 18-24 months. Over that lifetime, our life expectation has been increasing. Let's not lose sensible perspective. Cancer is not (according to current medical opinion) a transmissible disease.
You are so far in the sheep pen that you don't even recognize how many freedoms you have lost and are going to lose. Your overlords must be very proud of you.
You're never very specific on this.
Who are our 'overlords', please? Are these the lizards?
Who are our 'overlords', please? Are these the lizards?
Ha, Ian your interest in me is very sweet, even if it is ultimately to expose me as a madman! David Icke exposes a lot of truth, but he is way too New Age Gnostic for me and I don't get the Lizards. No, I'm more conservative ( small C, not Tory party anymore) and Christian.
The response to Covid never felt right to me and I was opposed to Lockdowns from the start - Focused protection for the old and vulnerable as espoused by The Great Barrington Declaration and their highly esteemed scientists always seemed an obvious way forward.
Since then a series of events from Boris allegedly getting Covid and turning from a libertarian in to a Lockdown fascist overnight, the wrecking of the economy, particularly small and family business, DNR notices in hospitals and care homes, Big tech and MSM censorship of anything moderately against the received narrative, amid details of investment from these companies in the vaccine, the non discussion of Ivermectin as a highly viable and successful cheap alternative to the vaccine, non- reporting of vaccine death and injury, the coercion employed to make people take an experimental vaccine, the booster jabs lined up already, vaccine passports - that become ID cards, the closing of pubs, stadia, churches etc, the effective stopping of the working classes from travelling aboard, encouragement of stasi like snitching, the nudge unit set up to control the people. All these things are weird and sinister and anti-democratic and have made me question what is going on.
Anyone who knows any history will be aware that there are powerful families at the top of the pyramid like the Rothschilds, Rockefellers etc who control the money and have always made a lot of money during times of disaster - WW2 for example when they were financing both sides. I believe this is what is happening here. This is not 5G conspiracy, micro chip conspiracy - this is just follow the money. the Elites are worried about over population and resources depletion - check out the very creepy Georgia Guidestones erected in 1980 anonymously. To me this is about control and a new world order, but you can stay in the sheep pen if you like, it's certainly more comfortable in there......
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
Ha, Ian your interest in me is very sweet, even if it is ultimately to expose me as a madman! David Icke exposes a lot of truth, but he is way too New Age Gnostic for me and I don't get the Lizards. No, I'm more conservative ( small C, not Tory party anymore) and Christian.
The response to Covid never felt right to me and I was opposed to Lockdowns from the start - Focused protection for the old and vulnerable as espoused by The Great Barrington Declaration and their highly esteemed scientists always seemed an obvious way forward.
Since then a series of events from Boris allegedly getting Covid and turning from a libertarian in to a Lockdown fascist overnight, the wrecking of the economy, particularly small and family business, DNR notices in hospitals and care homes, Big tech and MSM censorship of anything moderately against the received narrative, amid details of investment from these companies in the vaccine, the non discussion of Ivermectin as a highly viable and successful cheap alternative to the vaccine, non- reporting of vaccine death and injury, the coercion employed to make people take an experimental vaccine, the booster jabs lined up already, vaccine passports - that become ID cards, the closing of pubs, stadia, churches etc, the effective stopping of the working classes from travelling aboard, encouragement of stasi like snitching, the nudge unit set up to control the people. All these things are weird and sinister and anti-democratic and have made me question what is going on.
Anyone who knows any history will be aware that there are powerful families at the top of the pyramid like the Rothschilds, Rockefellers etc who control the money and have always made a lot of money during times of disaster - WW2 for example when they were financing both sides. I believe this is what is happening here. This is not 5G conspiracy, micro chip conspiracy - this is just follow the money. the Elites are worried about over population and resources depletion - check out the very creepy Georgia Guidestones erected in 1980 anonymously. To me this is about control and a new world order, but you can stay in the sheep pen if you like, it's certainly more comfortable in there......
I am interested. We don't get too many out and out conspiracy theorists on here, and people like you are having an increasing influence on things, which is a shame.
Whether you yourself are a madman, I don't know. I do know that a lot of the things that you believe in are profoundly nutty.
'Follow the money' is a very good approach to understanding many things, but the mistake you make is to know that there are people with money and influence out there and to then assume that they must constitute a powerful cabal of 'overlords'. And, of course, they are secret so you can't name them.
The world is simply too complex for that, and there is just too much scrutiny. The idea that there are puppet masters who are controlling everything but who have been able to stay completely in the shadows and cover their tracks at every turn is a fairy story.
My advice to you is to spend less time chasing down stories that would tend to corroborate your new found view of the world and spend your time reading about conspiracy theories, how they are arise, why most of them are wrong.
'Follow the money' in terms of who is financing, supporting and spreading all these conspiracy theories, then you might be able to climb out of your rabbit hole.
Ha, Ian your interest in me is very sweet, even if it is ultimately to expose me as a madman! David Icke exposes a lot of truth, but he is way too New Age Gnostic for me and I don't get the Lizards. No, I'm more conservative ( small C, not Tory party anymore) and Christian.
The response to Covid never felt right to me and I was opposed to Lockdowns from the start - Focused protection for the old and vulnerable as espoused by The Great Barrington Declaration and their highly esteemed scientists always seemed an obvious way forward.
Since then a series of events from Boris allegedly getting Covid and turning from a libertarian in to a Lockdown fascist overnight, the wrecking of the economy, particularly small and family business, DNR notices in hospitals and care homes, Big tech and MSM censorship of anything moderately against the received narrative, amid details of investment from these companies in the vaccine, the non discussion of Ivermectin as a highly viable and successful cheap alternative to the vaccine, non- reporting of vaccine death and injury, the coercion employed to make people take an experimental vaccine, the booster jabs lined up already, vaccine passports - that become ID cards, the closing of pubs, stadia, churches etc, the effective stopping of the working classes from travelling aboard, encouragement of stasi like snitching, the nudge unit set up to control the people. All these things are weird and sinister and anti-democratic and have made me question what is going on.
Anyone who knows any history will be aware that there are powerful families at the top of the pyramid like the Rothschilds, Rockefellers etc who control the money and have always made a lot of money during times of disaster - WW2 for example when they were financing both sides. I believe this is what is happening here. This is not 5G conspiracy, micro chip conspiracy - this is just follow the money. the Elites are worried about over population and resources depletion - check out the very creepy Georgia Guidestones erected in 1980 anonymously. To me this is about control and a new world order, but you can stay in the sheep pen if you like, it's certainly more comfortable in there......
It is great that you can set down your ideas in more clear detail. A lot of the posters on here are prepared to entertain ideas and values quite different to their own in a sensible way, so full marks for participating. I don't agree with very much at all of what you have written. For example, if the "overlords" hold such power, how come they are not able to hang on to it generation after generation, despite retaining much of their wealth? Or as Ian suggest, are we unaware of who holds the power, in which case, how do you know if it is secret? Do you know any conspiracy theorists who are on the other side of the fence?
I am interested. We don't get too many out and out conspiracy theorists on here, and people like you are having an increasing influence on things, which is a shame.
Whether you yourself are a madman, I don't know. I do know that a lot of the things that you believe in are profoundly nutty.
'Follow the money' is a very good approach to understanding many things, but the mistake you make is to know that there are people with money and influence out there and to then assume that they must constitute a powerful cabal of 'overlords'. And, of course, they are secret so you can't name them.
The world is simply too complex for that, and there is just too much scrutiny. The idea that there are puppet masters who are controlling everything but who have been able to stay completely in the shadows and cover their tracks at every turn is a fairy story.
My advice to you is to spend less time chasing down stories that would tend to corroborate your new found view of the world and spend your time reading about conspiracy theories, how they are arise, why most of them are wrong.
'Follow the money' in terms of who is financing, supporting and spreading all these conspiracy theories, then you might be able to climb out of your rabbit hole.
Ian, I wasn't expecting to turn you into a free spirited revolutionary, that is clearly not you.
If you think everything in your garden is rosy and nobody in power is corrupt and they all have your best interest at heart, then I am afraid that is the fairy story, but it's a nice one, so I suggest you stay there, but watch out for those rabbit holes!
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
It is great that you can set down your ideas in more clear detail. A lot of the posters on here are prepared to entertain ideas and values quite different to their own in a sensible way, so full marks for participating. I don't agree with very much at all of what you have written. For example, if the "overlords" hold such power, how come they are not able to hang on to it generation after generation, despite retaining much of their wealth? Or as Ian suggest, are we unaware of who holds the power, in which case, how do you know if it is secret? Do you know any conspiracy theorists who are on the other side of the fence?
Berber, I agree that debate is good and it is how our own views can be tempered and honed, but during the last 18 months most reasonable debate on covid has been censored. Maybe 10 -20 per cent of the population have been sceptical, but they have largely been silenced and/or ridiculed. large freedom protests around the world have been unreported by the MSM - why? These have been troubling times for democracy - that is surely evident.
Wealthy families do hang on to power and influence - interesting that The Rothschilds central bank is in all but 3 countries around the world - Cuba, Iran and North Korea. Interesting that Black Rock are buying up property in the US at 40 -50% above asking price. Interesting that Elon Musk has such an appetite for transhumanism, interesting that Bill Gates and vaccines are so entwined, interesting that Amazon made so much extra money during lockdown, while smaller companies have been driven to the brink. Never waste a crisis........
Personally I think freemasonry grand lodges hold most of the secrets, but these are deep waters and probably not for a general forum.
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
Berber, I agree that debate is good and it is how our own views can be tempered and honed, but during the last 18 months most reasonable debate on covid has been censored. Maybe 10 -20 per cent of the population have been sceptical, but they have largely been silenced and/or ridiculed. large freedom protests around the world have been unreported by the MSM - why? These have been troubling times for democracy - that is surely evident.
Wealthy families do hang on to power and influence - interesting that The Rothschilds central bank is in all but 3 countries around the world - Cuba, Iran and North Korea. Interesting that Black Rock are buying up property in the US at 40 -50% above asking price. Interesting that Elon Musk has such an appetite for transhumanism, interesting that Bill Gates and vaccines are so entwined, interesting that Amazon made so much extra money during lockdown, while smaller companies have been driven to the brink. Never waste a crisis........
Personally I think freemasonry grand lodges hold most of the secrets, but these are deep waters and probably not for a general forum.
I can’t just work out why Amazon made so much money when all the shops were closed so everyone ordered stuff online. It’s baffling as you say
“Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously'
Ian, I wasn't expecting to turn you into a free spirited revolutionary, that is clearly not you.
If you think everything in your garden is rosy and nobody in power is corrupt and they all have your best interest at heart, then I am afraid that is the fairy story, but it's a nice one, so I suggest you stay there, but watch out for those rabbit holes!
Your revolutionary scepticism is admirable. It’s your credulity which is the crying shame.
My uncle was a Freemason. The former landlord of my local is one as is a near neighbour. A bunch of people less likely to be found involved with world domination you will never find. People in power will always be the target of those in a position to try and influence them. The Tories are in the pocket of big business. The unions still wield a great deal of influence over the Labour Party. I have no doubt that huge corporations have too much influence and power over Governments but there are far too many different factions around the world for it to be likely that one group of people run the whole planet. We need to move away from large power bases. Proportional representation would, I think, encourage a greater diversity in Parliament and maybe encourage more and different political parties.That won’t prevent coalitions becoming targeted by corporations but the greater the diversity, hopefully the harder it will make it for influencers as things could be shaken up more every 5 years.
Berber, I agree that debate is good and it is how our own views can be tempered and honed, but during the last 18 months most reasonable debate on covid has been censored. Maybe 10 -20 per cent of the population have been sceptical, but they have largely been silenced and/or ridiculed. large freedom protests around the world have been unreported by the MSM - why? These have been troubling times for democracy - that is surely evident.
Wealthy families do hang on to power and influence - interesting that The Rothschilds central bank is in all but 3 countries around the world - Cuba, Iran and North Korea. Interesting that Black Rock are buying up property in the US at 40 -50% above asking price. Interesting that Elon Musk has such an appetite for transhumanism, interesting that Bill Gates and vaccines are so entwined, interesting that Amazon made so much extra money during lockdown, while smaller companies have been driven to the brink. Never waste a crisis........
Personally I think freemasonry grand lodges hold most of the secrets, but these are deep waters and probably not for a general forum.
There is definitely room for scepticism in regards to the last 18 months that do need scrutiny
1 any outbreak that has a (within 28 days classification cause of death) warrants some obvious scepticism
2 the slight anomaly that only so called rich and educated countries suffered the brunt of this outbreak
3 the Financial outlay/impact to death per capita
4 the perception versus outcome by scientists has been extremely flawed
5 the slight fly in the ointment that is Sweden and its response (some would argue lack of)
6 and the loss of life from simply just having the jab and those who have also sadly been double jabbed and still have perished.
I haven't got a single adequate or conclusive answer to any of the above and I'd imagine no one has...this obviously means that the whole situation is open to questioning and rightly so...
There is definitely room for scepticism in regards to the last 18 months that do need scrutiny
1 any outbreak that has a (within 28 days classification cause of death) warrants some obvious scepticism
2 the slight anomaly that only so called rich and educated countries suffered the brunt of this outbreak
3 the Financial outlay/impact to death per capita
4 the perception versus outcome by scientists has been extremely flawed
5 the slight fly in the ointment that is Sweden and its response (some would argue lack of)
6 and the loss of life from simply just having the jab and those who have also sadly been double jabbed and still have perished.
I haven't got a single adequate or conclusive answer to any of the above and I'd imagine no one has...this obviously means that the whole situation is open to questioning and rightly so...
Strange times we currently navigate...
1. Not sure what you mean here. 2. Are you saying that India where the epidemic is disastrous, is a rich and educated country? 3. How can anyone answer the question when it is not clear what it is? 4. I agree that the scientific community are prone to herd mentality as much as any group of specialists. 5. If you look at Sweden and its population distribution, the fair comparators are its neighbours, Finland and Norway. Their lack of response doesn't look great in comparison. Their "don't treat" attitude to the elderly borders on the criminal for a social democracy. 6. Nobody has ever claimed that the solutions are perfect. However, the statistics show without any shadow of doubt that the population as a whole is far better off having the vaccination programme than not.
You don't at any stage demonstrate your arguments with facts. My second, off the top of my head answer is an argument that is surely both factual and indisputable?
Accepted knowledge and beliefs are always open to be challenged, but not with "hunches" and partial or flimsy evidence. These usually destroy any credibility the contra argument has in the first place.
1. Not sure what you mean here. 2. Are you saying that India where the epidemic is disastrous, is a rich and educated country? 3. How can anyone answer the question when it is not clear what it is? 4. I agree that the scientific community are prone to herd mentality as much as any group of specialists. 5. If you look at Sweden and its population distribution, the fair comparators are its neighbours, Finland and Norway. Their lack of response doesn't look great in comparison. Their "don't treat" attitude to the elderly borders on the criminal for a social democracy. 6. Nobody has ever claimed that the solutions are perfect. However, the statistics show without any shadow of doubt that the population as a whole is far better off having the vaccination programme than not.
You don't at any stage demonstrate your arguments with facts. My second, off the top of my head answer is an argument that is surely both factual and indisputable?
Accepted knowledge and beliefs are always open to be challenged, but not with "hunches" and partial or flimsy evidence. These usually destroy any credibility the contra argument has in the first place.
My response to jellybaby was to show how and why there are so many conspiracies about the last 18 months
India is a country of both poverty and extreme wealth in parts..it has its own space program..hardly 3rd world I'd say.
When the need to classify deaths with a window of opportunity that is greater than the original flu like symptoms is obviously going to be questioned..people dying directly due to vehicle accidents were recorded as covid related deaths...this leads to yet again room for conspiracy theories to arise.
Sweden has out performed our very own attempts and has suffered very little financial distress in comparison to the UK.
Now you also have individuals winning law suits in Canada and the US for false representation of federal government guidelines...
So plenty for anyone with an active mind to question..
I personally can't see the collusion of governments world wide to synchronise a false pandemic to inject everyone with a mystery serum...Vladimir Putin wouldn't be a participant of such a grand illusion that's for certain.
My response to jellybaby was to show how and why there are so many conspiracies about the last 18 months
India is a country of both poverty and extreme wealth in parts..it has its own space program..hardly 3rd world I'd say.
When the need to classify deaths with a window of opportunity that is greater than the original flu like symptoms is obviously going to be questioned..people dying directly due to vehicle accidents were recorded as covid related deaths...this leads to yet again room for conspiracy theories to arise.
Sweden has out performed our very own attempts and has suffered very little financial distress in comparison to the UK.
Now you also have individuals winning law suits in Canada and the US for false representation of federal government guidelines...
So plenty for anyone with an active mind to question..
I personally can't see the collusion of governments world wide to synchronise a false pandemic to inject everyone with a mystery serum...Vladimir Putin wouldn't be a participant of such a grand illusion that's for certain.
There are plenty of conspiracies to be sure. However, most of them are hooked onto chinks of raggedness around the rules and guidance which were ever changing for reasons that surely don't need explaining.
Most of the anti mainstream arguments are subsequently shown to be based on mirepresented or misleading information.
To take the Sweden case in point. I have explained in outline the main reason (the causal drivers) why their numbers per capita are lower than ours for example. Their population density is 7 - 8 times less than ours. Where they have multi generational living, it is mostly where younger or older folk live in a separate apartment from the main part of the building, not hugger mugger with the rest as happens in the vast majority of UK cases. The number of people in a residential area are far less than in the UK. Yet you continue to use it as an argument because the simple statistic can show an advantage. Without bothering with the causal reasons, the statistics become an ogre, which is your point, but in this case, argues against your thrust.
If you look at the wealth distribution in India, it is heavily weighted into the very wealthy minority, and a similar, but not so pronounced profile could be argued for the UK. However, when you look at the income per capita, the comparison shows that no matter how you look at it, India is definitely a 3rd tier economic country. Citing government mis spending as an argument won't convince any rational people to you cause. To suggest it is not 3rd world is implausible to most rational thinkers, and promoting such weak arguments lowers your credibility, which is a point that Ian makes. (Not that we agree on a lot from the debates on here).
Citing examples of litigation from the most litigious nation in the world, where any contentious ruling, will go to the Supreme Court, and lower courts are primarily interested in ensuring that they don't cover their faces with egg, knowing that a superior court will review and overturn any decision they make, means that all decisions up to the Supreme Court cannot be held as "factual" in terms of their interpreted meaning.
You have a case that we all didn't know all of the facts at the time decisions were made. Some of the guidance has been shown to be misguided, despite what appear to be best intentions (eg mask wearing). It is indisputable that we cannot know the long term implications of the vaccine. However, the best scientific knowledge around the world suggests that the risks are minimal, and insignificant to the short term risks of not vaccinating globally.
We all know that there are risks, we all know that some parties (not necessarily political) will have an interest in promoting their own interests.
You used to have to go out of your way to become a conspiracy theorist. Make the effort to subscribe to obscure pamphlets, seek out specialist bookshops in obscure parts of the country. The effort required filtered out all but the most obsessive.
The internet has opened up this fantasy world to anyone with a few minutes spare to do a bit of surfing, and it seems there are a lot of people out there just ready to swallow it all.
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