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Third Covid Wave 10:36 - Jul 16 with 54632 viewsSadoldgit

Infection and hospital rates climbing rapidly. Death rates projected at 200 per day. Nearly 4m people at serious risk. New information coming out about the problems Covid cause the body if it doesn’t kill you. People laid up for the best part of a year with serious complications. Concern over the AstraZenica vaccine. Is it really wise to lift most of the restrictions on Monday? We have been told that we aren’t going back into another lockdown situation no matter what, but Whitty seems to think it might have to be on the cards.
[Post edited 18 Jul 2021 9:29]
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Third Covid Wave on 13:11 - Sep 14 with 976 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 13:02 - Sep 14 by Sadoldgit

Yesterday I ran into the old landlord from my local. He is seriously overweight with a heart and chest condition. He has had both jabs. A few weeks ago he contracted Covid and was ill for 4 days but not hospitalised. There is a good chance that without the vaccine he wouldn’t be here now.


That's nice to hear bud, not all bad is it.

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Third Covid Wave on 13:23 - Sep 14 with 950 viewsButty101

Third Covid Wave on 12:54 - Sep 14 by saint68

12th September 2020 no vaccines

2656 cases per day
18 deaths
218 hospitalisations

12th September 2021


29000 cases per day
56 deaths
Over a 1000 hospital admissions

That is soaring by any means...

Certainly made Dr Hillary Jones Squirm when faced with those statistics


https://westbridgfordwire.com/uk-covid-update-12-september/


Deaths in the UK from covid-19 from the 2nd of January 2021 to 2nd of July 2021

51282 in total
12317 had received between 1 and 2 vaccines



[Post edited 14 Sep 2021 13:31]


To start with you were talking about the USA not the UK.

But any how, that link you provided dosent back up your statement below.

"Deaths in the UK from covid-19 from the 2nd of January 2021 to 2nd of July 2021

51282 in total
12317 had received between 1 and 2 vaccines"

I suggest you look at how many people were getting covid in january a day and compare the death rate to today. That should give you a warm feeling that the jab has worked.

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Third Covid Wave on 13:49 - Sep 14 with 942 viewsDorsetIan

Here's the ONS report showing the effectiveness of the vaccine.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/dea

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Third Covid Wave on 13:52 - Sep 14 with 941 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 13:23 - Sep 14 by Butty101

To start with you were talking about the USA not the UK.

But any how, that link you provided dosent back up your statement below.

"Deaths in the UK from covid-19 from the 2nd of January 2021 to 2nd of July 2021

51282 in total
12317 had received between 1 and 2 vaccines"

I suggest you look at how many people were getting covid in january a day and compare the death rate to today. That should give you a warm feeling that the jab has worked.


I reckon that the 12th of September comparisons show clearly a massive rise in all associated areas....no vaccines..seemed significantly better off case wise..it would be churlish to not acknowledge that...cases soaring seems to be a very accurate comment in retrospect.

And over 12000 deaths in vaccinated doesn't equate to a fantastic achievement, in fact that would usually prompt the vaccine to be removed on safety grounds.

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Third Covid Wave on 13:56 - Sep 14 with 938 viewsDorsetIan

And here's the latest information on vaccine safety.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-

It's a pretty thorough review of possible side effects, both mild and serious. It also shows that there is continuous monitoring of what's happening.

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Third Covid Wave on 14:26 - Sep 14 with 905 viewsButty101

Third Covid Wave on 13:52 - Sep 14 by saint68

I reckon that the 12th of September comparisons show clearly a massive rise in all associated areas....no vaccines..seemed significantly better off case wise..it would be churlish to not acknowledge that...cases soaring seems to be a very accurate comment in retrospect.

And over 12000 deaths in vaccinated doesn't equate to a fantastic achievement, in fact that would usually prompt the vaccine to be removed on safety grounds.


Again where are you getting 12000 from? Lets see some evidence ?

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Third Covid Wave on 14:47 - Sep 14 with 901 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 14:26 - Sep 14 by Butty101

Again where are you getting 12000 from? Lets see some evidence ?


Firstly the 12th of September comparisons pretty much show the massive, soaring, rocketing cases that I alluded to and you seem to not want acknowledge that as it proves my original comment that you dismissed..

It was actually 12317 from 51821..approximately 24% were either single or double jabbed..source the ONS


The good news of recent is that those who haven't had a vaccine and had covid-19 show 13x higher antibodies than those who have been vaccinated..natural immune system..the only system we needed...not this Gene therapy bullshit.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2021 15:21]

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Third Covid Wave on 15:33 - Sep 14 with 876 viewsDorsetIan

Third Covid Wave on 14:47 - Sep 14 by saint68

Firstly the 12th of September comparisons pretty much show the massive, soaring, rocketing cases that I alluded to and you seem to not want acknowledge that as it proves my original comment that you dismissed..

It was actually 12317 from 51821..approximately 24% were either single or double jabbed..source the ONS


The good news of recent is that those who haven't had a vaccine and had covid-19 show 13x higher antibodies than those who have been vaccinated..natural immune system..the only system we needed...not this Gene therapy bullshit.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2021 15:21]


You are focusing on 12,317 'vaccinated' deaths out of 51,821.

The same figures show that of those 51,821, 38,964 were unvaccinated. i.e over 75%.

Your total figure for the vaccinated deaths (12,317) is correct but completely misses the points:

(a) that over 75% are unvaccinated.
(b) that the number of vaccinated deaths declines relative to the number of doses and a 21 day period elapsed since the dose.

Thus, the total number of deaths for double vaccinated people after 21 days is 458. i.e. less than 1%. And that, after all, is what everyone is aiming for - 2 doses + 21 days.

Over 75% versus under 1%, mmmm ?? Even someone with your limited grasp of mathematics and statistics, should be able to tell that it's better to be in the under 1% group.

Bear in mind too that that there are far more sensible vaccinated people than misguided unvaccinated ones, so the figures are even more stark that 75% versus 1%. That 75% (those 38,964) is coming from a much smaller population of people.

So the question is: why are you so desperate to misrepresent the true position?

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Third Covid Wave on 15:51 - Sep 14 with 868 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 15:33 - Sep 14 by DorsetIan

You are focusing on 12,317 'vaccinated' deaths out of 51,821.

The same figures show that of those 51,821, 38,964 were unvaccinated. i.e over 75%.

Your total figure for the vaccinated deaths (12,317) is correct but completely misses the points:

(a) that over 75% are unvaccinated.
(b) that the number of vaccinated deaths declines relative to the number of doses and a 21 day period elapsed since the dose.

Thus, the total number of deaths for double vaccinated people after 21 days is 458. i.e. less than 1%. And that, after all, is what everyone is aiming for - 2 doses + 21 days.

Over 75% versus under 1%, mmmm ?? Even someone with your limited grasp of mathematics and statistics, should be able to tell that it's better to be in the under 1% group.

Bear in mind too that that there are far more sensible vaccinated people than misguided unvaccinated ones, so the figures are even more stark that 75% versus 1%. That 75% (those 38,964) is coming from a much smaller population of people.

So the question is: why are you so desperate to misrepresent the true position?


It's undeniable 12317 died, are dead and did have the vaccine..so that is a fact..you can massage it anyway you want..it still indicates that 24% died after having a vaccine

But statistics only work in your favour .well I'd imagine the families of those 12317 that passed away will be wondering why they aren't about after receiving their magic shots..

See when manipulation of statistics is required it raises suspicion..well you've just done that very thing..you've questioned it and found your answer..now when it's the other way round you dismiss them instantly

So this August and last August statistics show an alarming rise..the worrying aspect is that last year .no vaccines this year a 70% vaccinated population..but things are getting worse.. now that statistic is easily verifiable.

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Third Covid Wave on 16:10 - Sep 14 with 858 viewsDorsetIan

Third Covid Wave on 15:51 - Sep 14 by saint68

It's undeniable 12317 died, are dead and did have the vaccine..so that is a fact..you can massage it anyway you want..it still indicates that 24% died after having a vaccine

But statistics only work in your favour .well I'd imagine the families of those 12317 that passed away will be wondering why they aren't about after receiving their magic shots..

See when manipulation of statistics is required it raises suspicion..well you've just done that very thing..you've questioned it and found your answer..now when it's the other way round you dismiss them instantly

So this August and last August statistics show an alarming rise..the worrying aspect is that last year .no vaccines this year a 70% vaccinated population..but things are getting worse.. now that statistic is easily verifiable.


I'm really sorry to have to say this, but you are a complete idiot.

Yes, those 12317 had had the vaccine but 11677 of them had only had one dose.

11677 is still a lot less than than 38,964 who had no dose at all, but the point is the vaccine is designed to be delivered in two doses and then is only fully effective 21 days thereafter.

The total number of deaths for people with two doses is 640, 458 of whom after 21 days.

So the clear conclusion if you want to increase your chances of avoiding death is to get to 2 doses.

And, as I say, if you really can't see that, then (apologies again) you are an idiot.

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Third Covid Wave on 16:27 - Sep 14 with 850 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 16:10 - Sep 14 by DorsetIan

I'm really sorry to have to say this, but you are a complete idiot.

Yes, those 12317 had had the vaccine but 11677 of them had only had one dose.

11677 is still a lot less than than 38,964 who had no dose at all, but the point is the vaccine is designed to be delivered in two doses and then is only fully effective 21 days thereafter.

The total number of deaths for people with two doses is 640, 458 of whom after 21 days.

So the clear conclusion if you want to increase your chances of avoiding death is to get to 2 doses.

And, as I say, if you really can't see that, then (apologies again) you are an idiot.


Well done Ian..finally you think statistics are important..

So now we've established that..can you now start to understand that the double vaccinated in Israel that are filling the hospitals at more than 80% and the ones dying at over 70% is an alarming outcome.....these are double vaccinated patients..so I'm glad we've established you can understand statistics..so now you can correlate the rather alarming rise in those vaccinated falling so unwell that they are taking up hospital beds more than unvaccinated..i won't be as mean to imply that you are an idiot..but its taken a really long time for you to understand and question statistics.

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Third Covid Wave on 16:40 - Sep 14 with 824 viewsButty101

Third Covid Wave on 16:27 - Sep 14 by saint68

Well done Ian..finally you think statistics are important..

So now we've established that..can you now start to understand that the double vaccinated in Israel that are filling the hospitals at more than 80% and the ones dying at over 70% is an alarming outcome.....these are double vaccinated patients..so I'm glad we've established you can understand statistics..so now you can correlate the rather alarming rise in those vaccinated falling so unwell that they are taking up hospital beds more than unvaccinated..i won't be as mean to imply that you are an idiot..but its taken a really long time for you to understand and question statistics.


There is no reasoning with you., as pointed out the fully vaccinated % is meniscal compared to unvaccinated

On the bright side you have now leant how to turn off capsLOCK

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Third Covid Wave on 16:47 - Sep 14 with 824 viewsSadoldgit

Third Covid Wave on 16:27 - Sep 14 by saint68

Well done Ian..finally you think statistics are important..

So now we've established that..can you now start to understand that the double vaccinated in Israel that are filling the hospitals at more than 80% and the ones dying at over 70% is an alarming outcome.....these are double vaccinated patients..so I'm glad we've established you can understand statistics..so now you can correlate the rather alarming rise in those vaccinated falling so unwell that they are taking up hospital beds more than unvaccinated..i won't be as mean to imply that you are an idiot..but its taken a really long time for you to understand and question statistics.


If this is such a large problem in Israel, why do you think it isn’t such a problem anywhere else?
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Third Covid Wave on 16:56 - Sep 14 with 809 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 16:40 - Sep 14 by Butty101

There is no reasoning with you., as pointed out the fully vaccinated % is meniscal compared to unvaccinated

On the bright side you have now leant how to turn off capsLOCK


Caps lock..I think you have the wrong person

Finally Ian has found out that statistics are important..he had to resort to being childish and calling names but that says more about him.

So we've finally got to a situation where statistics are now important..

So now we can understand the Israeli situation properly

The UK announcement by the ONS that 70% of those in hospital with covid-19 just two weeks ago were vaccinated...now all of these posts weren't answered because the statistics go against the desired reality.

A basic look back 12 months day on day yet again looks rather poor also

But at least now we can all understand the importance of statistics. And not just when they suit..

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Third Covid Wave on 17:02 - Sep 14 with 800 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 16:47 - Sep 14 by Sadoldgit

If this is such a large problem in Israel, why do you think it isn’t such a problem anywhere else?


Their roll out was the largest and quickest by population on the planet at that time bud, they also administered the second dose far quicker than anywhere else mate.

In fact it was seen as the most impressive vaccination programme and was seen as the test tube for the world, so its not surprising that it would also be the first to highlight any problems too.

The US is seeing a similar rise and UK also ..so 8 months in and things aren't quite as good as expected.

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Third Covid Wave on 17:35 - Sep 14 with 781 viewsBerber

Third Covid Wave on 13:52 - Sep 14 by saint68

I reckon that the 12th of September comparisons show clearly a massive rise in all associated areas....no vaccines..seemed significantly better off case wise..it would be churlish to not acknowledge that...cases soaring seems to be a very accurate comment in retrospect.

And over 12000 deaths in vaccinated doesn't equate to a fantastic achievement, in fact that would usually prompt the vaccine to be removed on safety grounds.


For a start, 12th Sept 2020 the Kent variant was just beginning to take off, so a significant number of cases were with the less contagious original version. 12th September 2021 almost all infections are Delta, which is 4 times as infectious as the original version dominant a year earlier. Explain that one away. If you want to stick to a "the numbers show what they show" argument, adress the same approach to child mortality explained below.

As reported widely in the media (and much criticised in some quarters, the lockdown brakes were raised deliberately earlier in the summer as, despite the much more virulent Delta variant, it was reckoned that hospitals could easily cope with any surge. This has been proved to be a correct assessment so far. You are not comparing the same phases of Covid waves.

12,000 deaths "in vaccinated" does not mean 12,000 deaths due to vaccination. If you read the ONS report that was linked, actually, only 59 double jabbed people without the well noted health compromises died From April through December. So if you were to identify all deaths attributed to vaccination, and add it to the "breakthrough" deaths, the mumbers are tiny compared to unvaccinated deaths from Covid.

Another anti vaxer on here implied it was morally reprehensible to vaccinate children as there would be adverse effects and some deaths as a result. Therefore, it would be wrong to take actions that would damage children. There could be some valid logic to that.

However, when examining child deaths (1-18 years old), there were 8% less during lockdown periods. What I would like to know, is whether anti vaxers think it is morally reprehensible not to maintain lockdown measures indefinitely to protect the circa 150 children who would die (nothing to do with Covid) as a result of reintroducing free movement in the UK?
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Third Covid Wave on 17:46 - Sep 14 with 779 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 17:35 - Sep 14 by Berber

For a start, 12th Sept 2020 the Kent variant was just beginning to take off, so a significant number of cases were with the less contagious original version. 12th September 2021 almost all infections are Delta, which is 4 times as infectious as the original version dominant a year earlier. Explain that one away. If you want to stick to a "the numbers show what they show" argument, adress the same approach to child mortality explained below.

As reported widely in the media (and much criticised in some quarters, the lockdown brakes were raised deliberately earlier in the summer as, despite the much more virulent Delta variant, it was reckoned that hospitals could easily cope with any surge. This has been proved to be a correct assessment so far. You are not comparing the same phases of Covid waves.

12,000 deaths "in vaccinated" does not mean 12,000 deaths due to vaccination. If you read the ONS report that was linked, actually, only 59 double jabbed people without the well noted health compromises died From April through December. So if you were to identify all deaths attributed to vaccination, and add it to the "breakthrough" deaths, the mumbers are tiny compared to unvaccinated deaths from Covid.

Another anti vaxer on here implied it was morally reprehensible to vaccinate children as there would be adverse effects and some deaths as a result. Therefore, it would be wrong to take actions that would damage children. There could be some valid logic to that.

However, when examining child deaths (1-18 years old), there were 8% less during lockdown periods. What I would like to know, is whether anti vaxers think it is morally reprehensible not to maintain lockdown measures indefinitely to protect the circa 150 children who would die (nothing to do with Covid) as a result of reintroducing free movement in the UK?


Your last paragraph is both poignant but sadly unworkable..I think we would both agree.

Covid vaccine deaths directly attributed to the jab in the UK are currently 1651 recorded ..probably higher in reality.

30x higher infection rates currently dont equate to your 4x higher delta scenario

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Third Covid Wave on 19:22 - Sep 14 with 743 viewssaint68

I'd imagine that when a government ignores the science and insists that children should be subjected to a vaccine that its own regulatory body clearly stated it was of no benefit then anyone with a conscience would be alarmed or even horrified .Well thats happened.
Not following the science in any shape or form.. just steam rolling through and disregarding parents and scientists objections ..anyone of you that think that's acceptable needs to have a long hard look in the mirror .


It's unacceptable and barbaric..but hey just sit in silence and accept it...

5 5 billion vaccines for a virus that is 0.04 fatal is nonsensical and illogical.

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Third Covid Wave on 22:46 - Sep 14 with 692 viewsJellybaby

Third Covid Wave on 17:46 - Sep 14 by saint68

Your last paragraph is both poignant but sadly unworkable..I think we would both agree.

Covid vaccine deaths directly attributed to the jab in the UK are currently 1651 recorded ..probably higher in reality.

30x higher infection rates currently dont equate to your 4x higher delta scenario


According to the government,s own website, yellow card (adverse reactions) are under reported massively. Only 10% of serious reactions reported and 2 -4% of non serious reaction are generally reported. If by serious they mean death it would put UK covid jab deaths at over 16 thousand. Here is the link;

https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/yellow-card-please-help-to-reverse-the-dec
[Post edited 14 Sep 2021 22:53]

I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Third Covid Wave on 08:26 - Sep 15 with 635 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 22:46 - Sep 14 by Jellybaby

According to the government,s own website, yellow card (adverse reactions) are under reported massively. Only 10% of serious reactions reported and 2 -4% of non serious reaction are generally reported. If by serious they mean death it would put UK covid jab deaths at over 16 thousand. Here is the link;

https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/yellow-card-please-help-to-reverse-the-dec
[Post edited 14 Sep 2021 22:53]


I saw a piece the other day of a senior Doctor submitting papers to a court due to the yellow card system being blatantly breached..

I suppose its probably not valid though, because it hasn't been reported on the BBC.

Still we live in a time of coercion and manipulation where statistics only matter when they suit the agenda..other valid statistical evidence is ignored.

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Third Covid Wave on 09:09 - Sep 15 with 616 viewsDorsetIan

Third Covid Wave on 22:46 - Sep 14 by Jellybaby

According to the government,s own website, yellow card (adverse reactions) are under reported massively. Only 10% of serious reactions reported and 2 -4% of non serious reaction are generally reported. If by serious they mean death it would put UK covid jab deaths at over 16 thousand. Here is the link;

https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/yellow-card-please-help-to-reverse-the-dec
[Post edited 14 Sep 2021 22:53]


This report is from 2018!

You’re trying to suggested that deaths as a result of vaccination are under reported by 90%! Another idiot reveals himself - the press has been all over any death directly linked to a vaccination, as have nutters like you.

The thing that is really troubling me now, is what is your and 68‘s real game? You’ve both completely ignored the evidence showing how deaths for people with 2 jabs compared to the unvaccinated are miniscule. And now you are making up nonsense about deaths from the vaccine itself.

It’s a bit sick, if you ask me. People are dying because they believe this sort of sh1t. What is your motivation for being part of that? Are you so paranoid about a totalitarian take over by forces unknown that you will say anything to further the cause of ‚freedom‘?

I think you’ve both probably revealed enough about your motives, your complete inability to understand data, and your willingness to twist „evidence“, to rule yourselves out of any serious debate on this stuff.

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Third Covid Wave on 09:29 - Sep 15 with 610 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 09:09 - Sep 15 by DorsetIan

This report is from 2018!

You’re trying to suggested that deaths as a result of vaccination are under reported by 90%! Another idiot reveals himself - the press has been all over any death directly linked to a vaccination, as have nutters like you.

The thing that is really troubling me now, is what is your and 68‘s real game? You’ve both completely ignored the evidence showing how deaths for people with 2 jabs compared to the unvaccinated are miniscule. And now you are making up nonsense about deaths from the vaccine itself.

It’s a bit sick, if you ask me. People are dying because they believe this sort of sh1t. What is your motivation for being part of that? Are you so paranoid about a totalitarian take over by forces unknown that you will say anything to further the cause of ‚freedom‘?

I think you’ve both probably revealed enough about your motives, your complete inability to understand data, and your willingness to twist „evidence“, to rule yourselves out of any serious debate on this stuff.


Ah the Idiot label again from a man that only likes statistics that suits his agenda..I walked you into a trap yesterday to show your complete denial stance..you felt superior and used derogatory terms in your self perceived shining moment..all it actually revealed was your complete disregard for statistics that go against your blinkered one dimensional stand point.


I won't stoop so low as to call you an idiot.. you've actually done extremely well in proving that yourself.

Oh, and If you've ever wondered wether you would have complied during1930's Germany, well now you know.

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Third Covid Wave on 09:38 - Sep 15 with 601 viewsDorsetIan

Third Covid Wave on 09:29 - Sep 15 by saint68

Ah the Idiot label again from a man that only likes statistics that suits his agenda..I walked you into a trap yesterday to show your complete denial stance..you felt superior and used derogatory terms in your self perceived shining moment..all it actually revealed was your complete disregard for statistics that go against your blinkered one dimensional stand point.


I won't stoop so low as to call you an idiot.. you've actually done extremely well in proving that yourself.

Oh, and If you've ever wondered wether you would have complied during1930's Germany, well now you know.


Grow up ffs.

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Third Covid Wave on 09:51 - Sep 15 with 595 viewssaint68

Third Covid Wave on 09:38 - Sep 15 by DorsetIan

Grow up ffs.


Oh look at you getting all abusive because you've been made to look ignorant.

When you resort to name calling and abuse you loose any credibility.

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Third Covid Wave on 10:39 - Sep 15 with 575 viewsdarthvader

Wow this really is a long covid thread

keep the faith coyr

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