| The Taliban 11:11 - Aug 15 with 9000 views | Sadoldgit |
After many years of death and disability amongst our soldiers we have now left the country and once again it is at the mercy of the Taliban. The families and loved ones of those who have lost their lives and those who will spend the rest of their lives without limbs must be wondering why they bothered. We followed the US in their supposed fight against terrorism. Yet another failure of American foreign policy that we trotted dutifully behind. What a waste of lives and resources that turned out to be. |  | | |  |
| The Taliban on 13:29 - Aug 16 with 1242 views | barry_sanchez |
| The Taliban on 13:13 - Aug 16 by Sadoldgit |
I’m not sure holding talks with the Taliban and excluding the Afghan government was a smart move. Getting out made sense. Not making plans so that it was not possible for the Taliban to take over again did not. You leave a vacuum, something can fill it. Make 100% sure that what you don’t want to fill it can. |
So you've gone from a responsibility perspective to agreeing to a withdrawal in about 5 posts, even for you thats impressive. |  |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
| |
| The Taliban on 14:15 - Aug 16 with 1200 views | geezershoong1 |
| The Taliban on 13:13 - Aug 16 by Sadoldgit |
I’m not sure holding talks with the Taliban and excluding the Afghan government was a smart move. Getting out made sense. Not making plans so that it was not possible for the Taliban to take over again did not. You leave a vacuum, something can fill it. Make 100% sure that what you don’t want to fill it can. |
It wasn't smart excluding the Afghan government - which is corrupt to the core by the way.
Getting out overnight without even telling the Afghan government was a betrayal, it all is.
This will cost Biden big time, although his approval rating are all ready underwater.
We lack strong leaders - reversing everything to the polar opposite that Big Orange did is not good policy. |  |
| |
| The Taliban on 15:42 - Aug 16 with 1172 views | Sadoldgit |
Strong leaders with a brain is what we lack. Sadly recent leaders are or have been both weak and not very bright. | | | |
| The Taliban on 15:46 - Aug 16 with 1167 views | geezershoong1 |
| The Taliban on 15:42 - Aug 16 by Sadoldgit |
Strong leaders with a brain is what we lack. Sadly recent leaders are or have been both weak and not very bright. |
True, but before you try and stick this one on the PM etc., there was no possibility of sticking around while the US was pulling out. This is all on Biden who ignored military advice just to appease the far left of his party.
They are falling off the transport planes as they take off FFS... [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 15:46]
| |
| |
| The Taliban on 17:23 - Aug 16 with 1126 views | Berber |
I have always rated Rory Stewart for sound thinking and cogent argument, and his understanding of what goes in Afghanistan far exceeds that of any journalist. However, today he consigned his reputation to p1ss in a bucket with this,
There will also be a huge influx of migrants, we're going to have to take millions of refugees.. the US and Europe. That's going to be a big problem for Brexiteers but they brought it on themselves.
WTF, the US pulling out of Kabul is the fault of Brexit? That takes the biscuit over anything argued on here. Haha |  | | |
| The Taliban on 17:28 - Aug 16 with 1121 views | Sadoldgit |
| The Taliban on 15:46 - Aug 16 by geezershoong1 |
True, but before you try and stick this one on the PM etc., there was no possibility of sticking around while the US was pulling out. This is all on Biden who ignored military advice just to appease the far left of his party.
They are falling off the transport planes as they take off FFS... [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 15:46]
|
I haven’t blamed Johnson but you could hardly call him a strong leader. Yes, this is solely down to the US. | | | |
| The Taliban on 18:48 - Aug 16 with 1089 views | Southamptonfan |
Biden has thrown innocent Afghan people under a bus and at the same time put the world in a catastrophic situation. The scenes of desperately frightened people hanging onto planes because one man has decided to chaotically pull out all US troops in a few days, is nothing short of disgusting and very upsetting. Of course there was no point keeping UK troops there anymore without US support. Those poor people at the mercy of the west, Blair, Biden, the US and the west, who have completely cocked this up.
And what is to come of this? The Taliban were and I assume still are, Islamic terrorists. With this organisation in control, expect more terrorism, more stories of brutal behaviour and a threat to the world. It was said today that the west will impose sanctions on them. So what happens when they don't comply? Go in again? We let the Taliban take over and say that we will impose pointless sanctions that we can't enforce unless we go back in. What a shambles. |  |
| |
| The Taliban on 18:59 - Aug 16 with 1081 views | Sadoldgit |
Having just left I can’t see another invasion. Targeted bomb and drone strikes would probably be the way forward but then would those encourage more terror attacks? | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| The Taliban on 19:02 - Aug 16 with 1075 views | 1885_SFC |
... and expect ISIS to regroup in Afghanistan over the coming months. Thousands of fighters laid down their weapons at the end of the Syrian war and just faded back into ordinary life. The Syrian forces even bused hundreds of them out of towns & cities in order to prevent more bloodshed. The Taliban say they are sworn enemies of ISIS... but lets see how that pans out over the coming months & years. |  |
| |
| The Taliban on 19:07 - Aug 16 with 1071 views | Southamptonfan |
| The Taliban on 18:59 - Aug 16 by Sadoldgit |
Having just left I can’t see another invasion. Targeted bomb and drone strikes would probably be the way forward but then would those encourage more terror attacks? |
Probably and we would be risking killing innocents yet again. The withdrawal of troops is a dream come true for the Taliban. How stupid would we (the west) look, completely withdrawing troops and then carrying out drone strikes killing innocent people, when we could have just kept the troops there. The problem comes when they are real threat to the world. The Taliban know that we will be reluctant to go in, such was the mistake last time. We ( to be frank, Biden) have just given a brutal organisation power over the world. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 19:08]
| |
| |
| The Taliban on 19:35 - Aug 16 with 1049 views | barry_sanchez |
| The Taliban on 15:46 - Aug 16 by geezershoong1 |
True, but before you try and stick this one on the PM etc., there was no possibility of sticking around while the US was pulling out. This is all on Biden who ignored military advice just to appease the far left of his party.
They are falling off the transport planes as they take off FFS... [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 15:46]
|
Biden is only upholding what Trump wanted, if he went back on that there would have been a civil war at best or a slaughter at worse, a date for withdrawal should never have been given, all military experts state that, it was Trump appeasing and appealing to his far right supporters who want an isolationist stance, the issue with that is who fills the vaccum?
The Russians, Chinese in short, thats not good for the citizens as what will happen is security will be assured but at the total expense of any democracy.
The US needs a strong leader, whether they like it or not they are the Worlds police and millions depend on them, the left or extreme left hate to even admit that but its true, the US are an awful lot better than China and Russia when it comes to human rights. | |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
| |
| The Taliban on 19:46 - Aug 16 with 1040 views | Sadoldgit |
| The Taliban on 19:07 - Aug 16 by Southamptonfan |
Probably and we would be risking killing innocents yet again. The withdrawal of troops is a dream come true for the Taliban. How stupid would we (the west) look, completely withdrawing troops and then carrying out drone strikes killing innocent people, when we could have just kept the troops there. The problem comes when they are real threat to the world. The Taliban know that we will be reluctant to go in, such was the mistake last time. We ( to be frank, Biden) have just given a brutal organisation power over the world. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 19:08]
|
If we are going to point fingers, Trump was responsible for the withdrawal agreement in the first place and to be fair to him, America could stay there forever. The problem seems to be that Western intelligence has vastly underrated the ability of the Taliban to take back control and vastly overestimated the Afghan military to defend the country. | | | |
| The Taliban on 19:56 - Aug 16 with 1032 views | Southamptonfan |
| The Taliban on 19:46 - Aug 16 by Sadoldgit |
If we are going to point fingers, Trump was responsible for the withdrawal agreement in the first place and to be fair to him, America could stay there forever. The problem seems to be that Western intelligence has vastly underrated the ability of the Taliban to take back control and vastly overestimated the Afghan military to defend the country. |
America couldn't stay there forever, true but the withdrawal agreement could have been adapted by Biden or changed. It's surprising if you like, that Biden has gone along with Trump's agreement and agreed to allowing those poor people in Afghanistan to now suffer dreadful human rights abuse and to allow the world to become a much more dangerous place. Isn't Biden an advocate for human rights? Withdrawing all troops in a few days was clearly catastrophic. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 19:57]
| |
| |
| The Taliban on 20:10 - Aug 16 with 1019 views | barry_sanchez |
| The Taliban on 19:56 - Aug 16 by Southamptonfan |
America couldn't stay there forever, true but the withdrawal agreement could have been adapted by Biden or changed. It's surprising if you like, that Biden has gone along with Trump's agreement and agreed to allowing those poor people in Afghanistan to now suffer dreadful human rights abuse and to allow the world to become a much more dangerous place. Isn't Biden an advocate for human rights? Withdrawing all troops in a few days was clearly catastrophic. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 19:57]
|
The US intelligence vastly overestimated the Afghan army as it meant it would receive support from the American public that their tax dollars was nation building, if they knew the truth they'd want out sooner.
The corruption of both the Iraqi forces and Afghan was vastly underestimated on purpose, the people who'll suffer are the civilians who also believe that the Afghan army would bring stability, only a sucker though would genuinely believe they're not corrupt and throw down their arms at the first opportunity, people just didn't want to see it, religion and tribal ties conquer all there, nations, boundaries and democracy count for nothing, the Taliban can only be defeated by the Afghans though, no one else. | |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
| |
| The Taliban on 21:17 - Aug 16 with 997 views | Southamptonfan |
| The Taliban on 20:10 - Aug 16 by barry_sanchez |
The US intelligence vastly overestimated the Afghan army as it meant it would receive support from the American public that their tax dollars was nation building, if they knew the truth they'd want out sooner.
The corruption of both the Iraqi forces and Afghan was vastly underestimated on purpose, the people who'll suffer are the civilians who also believe that the Afghan army would bring stability, only a sucker though would genuinely believe they're not corrupt and throw down their arms at the first opportunity, people just didn't want to see it, religion and tribal ties conquer all there, nations, boundaries and democracy count for nothing, the Taliban can only be defeated by the Afghans though, no one else. |
You are probably right. I have just heard Biden and to be fair to him, he has just given an honest answer suggesting exactly what you say. That the Afghan army have had trillions spent on them, weapons and training, only for them to walk away without a fight. Corrupt. Complete waste of money placing our trust in an Afghan army that perhaps secretly understand the desire for Sharia law and didn't even bother fighting. But it's the innocent civilians that suffer. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 21:18]
| |
| |
| The Taliban on 21:29 - Aug 16 with 992 views | DorsetIan |
Things were set in motion here when Trump did a deal with the Taliban, but he was driven first by an ideological need to 'get out', just as he did with the Kurds, because of his isolationist, America First policy.
Biden then screwed up the withdrawal, and the rest of 'the West' simply followed him.
What can you say, it's a desperate tragedy for the Afghans and a massive boost for all those who want to 'the West' fail. | |
| |
| The Taliban on 21:31 - Aug 16 with 986 views | 1885_SFC |
| The Taliban on 21:17 - Aug 16 by Southamptonfan |
You are probably right. I have just heard Biden and to be fair to him, he has just given an honest answer suggesting exactly what you say. That the Afghan army have had trillions spent on them, weapons and training, only for them to walk away without a fight. Corrupt. Complete waste of money placing our trust in an Afghan army that perhaps secretly understand the desire for Sharia law and didn't even bother fighting. But it's the innocent civilians that suffer. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 21:18]
|
And now the Taliban have more shiny new Humvees, weapons & kit than they know what to do with - left behind and abandoned by the shÃttest army ever in their quest to escape.
I wonder how long before a rogue Taliban unit take aim on those big military cargo planes that are hastily ferrying people out of Kabul airport? | |
| |
| The Taliban on 21:36 - Aug 16 with 973 views | barry_sanchez |
| The Taliban on 21:17 - Aug 16 by Southamptonfan |
You are probably right. I have just heard Biden and to be fair to him, he has just given an honest answer suggesting exactly what you say. That the Afghan army have had trillions spent on them, weapons and training, only for them to walk away without a fight. Corrupt. Complete waste of money placing our trust in an Afghan army that perhaps secretly understand the desire for Sharia law and didn't even bother fighting. But it's the innocent civilians that suffer. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 21:18]
|
And the saddest part is exactly that the innocents who want a democratic open society will suffer, they have to want it that bad though they take it and ac upon it, freedom is fought for never given.
The women have to demand it and education was the way forward for that but thats now gone, in a year or two it'll be back to the stoneage and another sad part is many majority Islam nations will silently admire that.
What will happen now will get very very dirty between Sunni and Shia with all players using them as a proxy to exert as much control over the region as possible.
Again the women and children will suffer the most. | |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
| |
| The Taliban on 21:47 - Aug 16 with 969 views | Southamptonfan |
I have to say that was a powerful speech from Biden. I still say pulling out the troops so quickly was a mistake but he has just explained it. It's a war that has to be won by the Afghans, not other countries and staying there will only delay the Taliban with more deaths for no reason. The army that has had trillions spent on it to protect the country, just surrendered without any fight at all. So Biden is saying, if they can't be bothered or don't have the desire to stop the Taliban, despite having been trained up, why should we. | |
| |
| The Taliban on 21:50 - Aug 16 with 960 views | barry_sanchez |
| The Taliban on 21:31 - Aug 16 by 1885_SFC |
And now the Taliban have more shiny new Humvees, weapons & kit than they know what to do with - left behind and abandoned by the shÃttest army ever in their quest to escape.
I wonder how long before a rogue Taliban unit take aim on those big military cargo planes that are hastily ferrying people out of Kabul airport? |
Oh I don't think they're that stupid, it'd give the West a chance to return, the mutilation for now will only concern the non conformist in the Country. | |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
| |
| The Taliban on 22:46 - Aug 16 with 936 views | Sadoldgit |
| The Taliban on 21:47 - Aug 16 by Southamptonfan |
I have to say that was a powerful speech from Biden. I still say pulling out the troops so quickly was a mistake but he has just explained it. It's a war that has to be won by the Afghans, not other countries and staying there will only delay the Taliban with more deaths for no reason. The army that has had trillions spent on it to protect the country, just surrendered without any fight at all. So Biden is saying, if they can't be bothered or don't have the desire to stop the Taliban, despite having been trained up, why should we. |
It is a reasonable point, but the whole purpose of the original invasion was the fight against terrorism we were told. If it was so important to defeat the Taliban at the time, why is it ok to give them free reign again now? It just shows what a reactionary knee jerk decision the original invasion was. The US clearly hadn’t learned the lessons from Vietnam and Iraq. If you are going to invade a country make sure you have an exit plan. It’s all very well wanting to be the policemen of the world but you just can’t go into countries with all guns blazing and then bugger off without putting structures and security measures in place that will make the lives of those in the countries better. | | | |
| The Taliban on 23:03 - Aug 16 with 923 views | barry_sanchez |
| The Taliban on 22:46 - Aug 16 by Sadoldgit |
It is a reasonable point, but the whole purpose of the original invasion was the fight against terrorism we were told. If it was so important to defeat the Taliban at the time, why is it ok to give them free reign again now? It just shows what a reactionary knee jerk decision the original invasion was. The US clearly hadn’t learned the lessons from Vietnam and Iraq. If you are going to invade a country make sure you have an exit plan. It’s all very well wanting to be the policemen of the world but you just can’t go into countries with all guns blazing and then bugger off without putting structures and security measures in place that will make the lives of those in the countries better. |
Their objective was to defeat the Taliban and make sure it didn't pose a threat, nation building came later on, all presidents wanted out, like the British in Northern Ireland, its easy to go in but you can't leave cleanly, for me its was a balls up from the get go and why didn't the Afghan Army show any resistance, that and that only will stop possible interventions elsewhere in the future as western nations will say "whats the point?", why should our troops die when they're not willing to resist? And this must be felt massively by the good army guys the Afghans have.
These countries are not ready for our ways of working things, if they were it would have been accepted, its western liberal arrogance to believe we know more than they do. I wholeheartedly dislike them abhor them but the people of Afghanistan have to fight for what they want, not the West. | |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
| |
| The Taliban on 23:16 - Aug 16 with 919 views | Southamptonfan |
| The Taliban on 23:03 - Aug 16 by barry_sanchez |
Their objective was to defeat the Taliban and make sure it didn't pose a threat, nation building came later on, all presidents wanted out, like the British in Northern Ireland, its easy to go in but you can't leave cleanly, for me its was a balls up from the get go and why didn't the Afghan Army show any resistance, that and that only will stop possible interventions elsewhere in the future as western nations will say "whats the point?", why should our troops die when they're not willing to resist? And this must be felt massively by the good army guys the Afghans have.
These countries are not ready for our ways of working things, if they were it would have been accepted, its western liberal arrogance to believe we know more than they do. I wholeheartedly dislike them abhor them but the people of Afghanistan have to fight for what they want, not the West. |
I agree with you. Presumably, the plan was to help the Afghans to run and protect their own country, naively thinking that all the Afghans would support it. It seems that the views of the Taliban are shared by some, or at least there is sympathy for some of their beliefs in that part of the world and a western style of life is not fully supported, explaining why it just hasn't worked and why the Taliban have been allowed to take over so easily. Biden said as much that we have to leave them to it. If you research this enough, you will find that many Muslims, especially in that part of the world support Sharia law, so there isn't a strong appetite to fight an organisation wanting to bring it in. At least, that is what Biden was suggesting tonight I think, that there was little resistance from them. If they are never going to fight for it, there is no point even trying to help them. But ofcourse, there will be innocents or some silent liberal Afghans who will suffer and the Taliban will be a dangerous threat to the world. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 23:21]
| |
| |
| The Taliban on 08:24 - Aug 17 with 844 views | Sadoldgit |
It’s amazing how persuasive a bunch of psychopaths armed to the teeth with Kalashnikovs can be. Whether it is sympathy with their cause or fear I don’t know, but a well oiled organisation that has zero regard for human life takes some stopping and unarmed civilians have no chance. The Afghans don’t take kindly to outside inference as many supposed stronger nations have found to their cost over the years. One thing is for sure, another humanitarian crisis is on its way and the world has become a less safe place again. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
