| Our ten corners last night 08:28 - Nov 6 with 1466 views | dirk_doone |
What was the point of them? I never noticed before how much shorter our players are than the opposition's and as for Emiliano Martinez, how ridiiclously tall is he? It reached the stage where I was hoping we wouldn't get any more. I think it was the tenth one before JWP realized that the high lobbed corners were more likely to result in an opposition breakaway goal than one for us. |  |
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| Our ten corners last night on 08:33 - Nov 6 with 1458 views | PatfromPoole |
We should have scored from the first corner.
I agree though. Villa left two quick players on the halfway line, which was quite a bold move, but made me pretty nervous about us losing the ball at a corner. |  |
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| Our ten corners last night on 08:38 - Nov 6 with 1443 views | dirk_doone |
| Our ten corners last night on 08:33 - Nov 6 by PatfromPoole |
We should have scored from the first corner.
I agree though. Villa left two quick players on the halfway line, which was quite a bold move, but made me pretty nervous about us losing the ball at a corner. |
It was interesting that when Villa left just one player up front for one of our corners, we had to pull 3 players back to defend against him. It just goes to show how stupid we are not leaving a single player up front when we defend one.
I think Ward-Prowse eventually realized that it was pointless trying to find the head of a Saints forward when the Villa players were so much taller than ours but then found out it was equally pointless trying to score direct from a corner against the ridiculously tall Martinez. It was one of the few games where I welcomed the sight of our only short corner.
But, we won and that's what counts so whatever we did got the desired result. [Post edited 6 Nov 2021 8:48]
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| Our ten corners last night on 09:38 - Nov 7 with 1210 views | DorsetIan |
Do we still think JWP is good at corners?
It feels like a long time since we scored from one of his, and when Redmond was taking them recently it felt like a welcome change. |  |
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| Our ten corners last night on 09:45 - Nov 7 with 1202 views | A1079 |
Expectation and comparison is probably a bad thing when judging these things but I was fortunate enough to see Mick Channon and David Armstrong who were lethal at delivering effective corners. There was a time when getting a corner was seen as an advantage.
I have not see us good at delivering corners for a while and we either fail to get past the first defender or we hopelessly overshoot it. | | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 10:11 - Nov 7 with 1183 views | grumpy |
It makes a considerable difference when Broja is there for corners.
You need some height in the box ,not just from defenders who come up when they are taken and have to charge back as soon as one misses them. |  | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 20:49 - Nov 7 with 1097 views | SonicBoom |
As I said on another thread, we do the same with throw ins, just repeatedly sling a long ball into the box. In fact that's worse as Salisu takes it, so not only is he not in the middle trying to win a header, he's also miles out of position when they break. |  | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 22:53 - Nov 7 with 1039 views | Messysaints |
| Our ten corners last night on 09:38 - Nov 7 by DorsetIan |
Do we still think JWP is good at corners?
It feels like a long time since we scored from one of his, and when Redmond was taking them recently it felt like a welcome change. |
i think only 3 % of corners result in a goal, for example City have nearlly had 100 corners this season and 0 goals from them. | | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 22:59 - Nov 7 with 1029 views | SaintNick |
| Our ten corners last night on 22:53 - Nov 7 by Messysaints |
i think only 3 % of corners result in a goal, for example City have nearlly had 100 corners this season and 0 goals from them. |
We lack a little bit of height at the moment, hopefully Broja and Lyanco will give us that height, certainly at Chelsea late on when we had a flurry of corners both lyanco and salisu nearly scored. |  |
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| Our ten corners last night on 23:58 - Nov 7 with 1022 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
| Our ten corners last night on 09:38 - Nov 7 by DorsetIan |
Do we still think JWP is good at corners?
It feels like a long time since we scored from one of his, and when Redmond was taking them recently it felt like a welcome change. |
No! I've been saying this for ages, his corners are predictable and too easy to deal with. |  |
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| Our ten corners last night on 08:09 - Nov 8 with 941 views | Buggalugs |
| Our ten corners last night on 22:59 - Nov 7 by SaintNick |
We lack a little bit of height at the moment, hopefully Broja and Lyanco will give us that height, certainly at Chelsea late on when we had a flurry of corners both lyanco and salisu nearly scored. |
Stuart Armstrong's delivery of said corners at Chelsea was exceptional too. |  |
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| Our ten corners last night on 13:49 - Nov 8 with 869 views | saint901 |
The corner routines are predictable. It was disappointing that the Villa keeper caught two of them at chest height.
Inswinging corners where the keeper s likely to come and grab them are a gift because refs will "protect" the goalkeeper often for no reason at all.
Out swingers expose our lack of height. Look at the size of the Burnley defenders for example, all 6 foot or better.
Some of the teams of the past with smaller forwards used the near post flick on to good effect and every now and again put the ball to the back stick.
Either way, they need to be played in at pace.
Needs more work.
(And Salisu is not the long throw specialist. He tried against Villa and they were easily dealt with and he's then out of position. Just stop it). | | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 13:55 - Nov 8 with 859 views | Bicester_North |
| Our ten corners last night on 13:49 - Nov 8 by saint901 |
The corner routines are predictable. It was disappointing that the Villa keeper caught two of them at chest height.
Inswinging corners where the keeper s likely to come and grab them are a gift because refs will "protect" the goalkeeper often for no reason at all.
Out swingers expose our lack of height. Look at the size of the Burnley defenders for example, all 6 foot or better.
Some of the teams of the past with smaller forwards used the near post flick on to good effect and every now and again put the ball to the back stick.
Either way, they need to be played in at pace.
Needs more work.
(And Salisu is not the long throw specialist. He tried against Villa and they were easily dealt with and he's then out of position. Just stop it). |
How about going the way West Ham did yesterday and get Salisu to jump right in front of the keeper causing a flap? | |
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| Our ten corners last night on 14:04 - Nov 8 with 849 views | saint901 |
Easy for the keeper to run into the back of the player in front of him and claim a foul - which the ref will give?
It was very noticeable in the second half that Villa had opportunities to play corners short but they choose a more conventional cross.
Same with free kicks, just no imagination. Anything outside shooting distance is played short and anything inside shooting distance is a shot. | | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 14:23 - Nov 8 with 821 views | DorsetIan |
| Our ten corners last night on 14:04 - Nov 8 by saint901 |
Easy for the keeper to run into the back of the player in front of him and claim a foul - which the ref will give?
It was very noticeable in the second half that Villa had opportunities to play corners short but they choose a more conventional cross.
Same with free kicks, just no imagination. Anything outside shooting distance is played short and anything inside shooting distance is a shot. |
Did you detect any tactical changes between the first and second halves to account for the differences in the balance of play.
Or was it just Villa having a proper go in the second, unlike the first? | |
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| Our ten corners last night on 15:10 - Nov 8 with 773 views | I_would |
None. Redmond was far superior on dead balls. Most of Prowsey's go straight to the goalie, wasted. The last time anyone scored off of Prowsey's corner was JV.
If Ralph MUST let Prowsey take them, I would suggest he kicks it straight over the goal line for a goal kick as there is less threat of an opposition break then. | |
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| Our ten corners last night on 18:20 - Nov 8 with 729 views | TimSaint |
| Our ten corners last night on 14:04 - Nov 8 by saint901 |
Easy for the keeper to run into the back of the player in front of him and claim a foul - which the ref will give?
It was very noticeable in the second half that Villa had opportunities to play corners short but they choose a more conventional cross.
Same with free kicks, just no imagination. Anything outside shooting distance is played short and anything inside shooting distance is a shot. |
Or perhaps JWP could whip it in and Che Adams could have a (very well saved) flicked header bound for the top corner ?
....but I take your point that even a free kick on the half way line is usually passed sideways or backwards and often ends up back at the keeper. Surely we could launch it into the box from half way - you never know what will happen - it could be a headed goal or drop nicely for someone !!
....or are they acting on RH's instructions ? |  |
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| Our ten corners last night on 18:23 - Nov 8 with 721 views | TimSaint |
| Our ten corners last night on 09:38 - Nov 7 by DorsetIan |
Do we still think JWP is good at corners?
It feels like a long time since we scored from one of his, and when Redmond was taking them recently it felt like a welcome change. |
It was Will Smallbone who was taking corners in the Cup game at Chelsea - from which we created 2 excellent chances late on.
Sadly it appears that he is more accurate from a corner than he is a penalty !! :-) | |
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| Our ten corners last night on 09:05 - Nov 9 with 619 views | saint901 |
| Our ten corners last night on 14:23 - Nov 8 by DorsetIan |
Did you detect any tactical changes between the first and second halves to account for the differences in the balance of play.
Or was it just Villa having a proper go in the second, unlike the first? |
I thought that in the first half Villa gave Armstrong S and JWP a lot of time and space and found them difficult to mark as they both went short on occasion and could look up. They also played quite narrow and that allowed the full backs some freedom that KWP in particular (his best game at left back I thought) exploited. It was not Tino's night and the ball would just not run for him. Perhaps the Villa defence was worried about the pace of Armstrong A and Adams and played deep.
In the second half they had no choice but to play more forward and their whole team stepped up 5 to 10 yards and importantly had the desire to win the second phase ball that was missing in the first half. Credit their manager for that I think. Thay also pushed their full backs up and stifled the space and overwhelmed the midfield. Early in the half, JWP and Armstrong S were sometimes facing four or more Villa players.
I think RH saw that the second half was going to be a rearguard and changing things at the hour mark (Armstrong S clear unhappy at going off) by bringing in more defensive players and again when Lyanco came on, was a display of his confidence in his defenders and system. Made for nervy watching though!
With Villa pressing and now playing with five defenders and two defensive mids in Romeu and Diallo, I would have liked to have seen a few long balls played to Adams/Armstrong just to remind Villa that we still had threat. Instead we persisted with trying to thread the ball through a press and in the second half that was not working.
The Villa players at the end were absolutely spent and they were obviously playing for the manager but lack of quality in front of goal cost them. I don't recall any sort of service that Ings would have enjoyed and instead shots from range we coped with.
It may have been better to play Lyanco in front of the centre backs and not behind them but to be honest I know very little about him and perhaps that's not his place. Also with three centre backs, it should have given our full backs room to go forward, but Villa had plugged that space for KWP and Tino was doing his best (the confidence of youth) but at times was trying to go past two or three Villa players.
Overall I thought Villa just played better in the second half - a bit more front foot and advanced and perhaps RH thought that soaking it up for 30 minutes was the way to go. Hard to argue that was not true given the performance and result. | | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 09:10 - Nov 9 with 617 views | saint901 |
| Our ten corners last night on 18:20 - Nov 8 by TimSaint |
Or perhaps JWP could whip it in and Che Adams could have a (very well saved) flicked header bound for the top corner ?
....but I take your point that even a free kick on the half way line is usually passed sideways or backwards and often ends up back at the keeper. Surely we could launch it into the box from half way - you never know what will happen - it could be a headed goal or drop nicely for someone !!
....or are they acting on RH's instructions ? |
I think the days of lump it into the box and see what drops are gone.
It's exciting to watch and creates a good buzz in the fans but the reality is that unless you have an exceptional centre forward who is going to win more than 1 in 4 of those, it's essentially giving the ball away.
Saints are not unusual in keeping the ball rather than throw a free kick forward as most teams do that now. Perhaps the theory is that a chance crafted by keeping the ball has a higher probability of being a good one than a long ball which defenders see coming? | | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 09:27 - Nov 9 with 613 views | DorsetIan |
| Our ten corners last night on 09:05 - Nov 9 by saint901 |
I thought that in the first half Villa gave Armstrong S and JWP a lot of time and space and found them difficult to mark as they both went short on occasion and could look up. They also played quite narrow and that allowed the full backs some freedom that KWP in particular (his best game at left back I thought) exploited. It was not Tino's night and the ball would just not run for him. Perhaps the Villa defence was worried about the pace of Armstrong A and Adams and played deep.
In the second half they had no choice but to play more forward and their whole team stepped up 5 to 10 yards and importantly had the desire to win the second phase ball that was missing in the first half. Credit their manager for that I think. Thay also pushed their full backs up and stifled the space and overwhelmed the midfield. Early in the half, JWP and Armstrong S were sometimes facing four or more Villa players.
I think RH saw that the second half was going to be a rearguard and changing things at the hour mark (Armstrong S clear unhappy at going off) by bringing in more defensive players and again when Lyanco came on, was a display of his confidence in his defenders and system. Made for nervy watching though!
With Villa pressing and now playing with five defenders and two defensive mids in Romeu and Diallo, I would have liked to have seen a few long balls played to Adams/Armstrong just to remind Villa that we still had threat. Instead we persisted with trying to thread the ball through a press and in the second half that was not working.
The Villa players at the end were absolutely spent and they were obviously playing for the manager but lack of quality in front of goal cost them. I don't recall any sort of service that Ings would have enjoyed and instead shots from range we coped with.
It may have been better to play Lyanco in front of the centre backs and not behind them but to be honest I know very little about him and perhaps that's not his place. Also with three centre backs, it should have given our full backs room to go forward, but Villa had plugged that space for KWP and Tino was doing his best (the confidence of youth) but at times was trying to go past two or three Villa players.
Overall I thought Villa just played better in the second half - a bit more front foot and advanced and perhaps RH thought that soaking it up for 30 minutes was the way to go. Hard to argue that was not true given the performance and result. |
Thank you. You see more than I do, and its always good to have your tactical analysis. | |
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| Our ten corners last night on 09:35 - Nov 9 with 601 views | 1teeminants |
We are very rarely successful from corners. I never get excited when we get a corner because you know nothing will happen. I ve been saying this to friends for years.
Oh for a Ron Davies and Terry Paine . |  |
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| Our ten corners last night on 10:33 - Nov 9 with 580 views | saint901 |
| Our ten corners last night on 09:27 - Nov 9 by DorsetIan |
Thank you. You see more than I do, and its always good to have your tactical analysis. |
I think perhaps I don't "see more" but I thank you anyway.
I have coached kids (up to U15) and have done some courses with Hants FA and the like, but that was years ago and the game has moved on hugely since then. The basics don't charge though, it's still pass and move.
Used to drive me nuts when I took my kids teams to see pro games and show them pass and move and then see them in training the next day try to beat 3 or 4 players whilst their team mates were free and open. | | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 11:13 - Nov 9 with 559 views | DorsetIan |
| Our ten corners last night on 10:33 - Nov 9 by saint901 |
I think perhaps I don't "see more" but I thank you anyway.
I have coached kids (up to U15) and have done some courses with Hants FA and the like, but that was years ago and the game has moved on hugely since then. The basics don't charge though, it's still pass and move.
Used to drive me nuts when I took my kids teams to see pro games and show them pass and move and then see them in training the next day try to beat 3 or 4 players whilst their team mates were free and open. |
I've never coached or played for anything other than fun, but I've been watching live football since 1977, so I like to think I appreciate some things. But I'm struck that a lot of your comments about players' positions and how subtle changes of shape or moving a particular player a few yards this way or that can make a big difference to a game. I don't think I notice that level of detail, and it's therefore very interesting to read and learn. All the best. | |
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| Our ten corners last night on 13:48 - Nov 9 with 544 views | SalisburySaint |
| Our ten corners last night on 18:23 - Nov 8 by TimSaint |
It was Will Smallbone who was taking corners in the Cup game at Chelsea - from which we created 2 excellent chances late on.
Sadly it appears that he is more accurate from a corner than he is a penalty !! :-) |
yes Redmonds good corners were against Leeds i think |  | | |
| Our ten corners last night on 16:16 - Nov 9 with 508 views | Sadoldgit |
| Our ten corners last night on 11:13 - Nov 9 by DorsetIan |
I've never coached or played for anything other than fun, but I've been watching live football since 1977, so I like to think I appreciate some things. But I'm struck that a lot of your comments about players' positions and how subtle changes of shape or moving a particular player a few yards this way or that can make a big difference to a game. I don't think I notice that level of detail, and it's therefore very interesting to read and learn. All the best. |
This resonates with Ralph’s comments about why he isn’t playing Tino at wing back. The space he has in front of him as fullback suits his style of play perfectly. Playing further up the park means that he is closer to the traffic and can’t exploit his pace so much. It’s amazing how much difference a few yards make. |  | | |
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