| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR 10:12 - Dec 20 with 3212 views | saint901 |
I've not really caught up with the weekend's football yet but there were a number of incidents in which the ref and/or the VAR crew were clearly wrong.
Spurs - Liverpool
1. Kane tackle. If that was seen by VAR it was a red card. If Kane was a journeyman defender from the lower half of the PL it was a red card. Ref sees England captain and only a yellow.
2. Jiota being barged in the back. Nailed on penalty.
3. Alli diving in the box. Nailed on yellow.
4. Robertson sending off was absolutely correct but I suspect he was frustrated by some of the decisions. (We saw something similar in our game with Brighton when their bought a free kick by going to ground and managed to dislocate his elbow).
5. In the City/Newcastle game, the City keeper should have been red carded. May not have bene a penalty as the ball was gone, but still dangerous play.
We have fans and pundits and journalists all saying that the refs are being exposed by VAR errors which is compounding their own real time errors. I have sympathy for refs on the field in most situations and this season they have been told to use less whistle, but VAR is there and they should be given more help. |  | | |  |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 20:18 - Dec 21 with 951 views | ElijahK |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 07:29 - Dec 21 by saint22 |
That’s total BS
VAR is there to assess and over rule clear and obvious errors
THAT was clear and obvious so he should have been told to go look at the monitor
The issue is the officials they are not good enough and lack balls |
Yeah and that’s why arrogant people such as yourself know absolutely nothing whatsoever about officiating, as 2 mistakes over a game week ain’t that bad, and could be a lot worse. As any decent FA official will agree that other than Mike Dean and John Moss, basically all PL officials are actually pretty decent, it’s just they don’t get praise when they do well, but as shown with these incidents, will get loads of stick when they make just 1 mistake!
And no it’s not BS it’s factual as no one who talks to the media/public knows what was said/suggested by VAR/Tierney, so nothings BS [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 20:25]
| |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 20:21 - Dec 21 with 947 views | ElijahK |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 08:38 - Dec 21 by saint901 |
There's a report on the BBC that is a brief discussion with Clattenburg (who I always regarded as one of the most biased refs in the league). He is head of refereeing in Greece. He says that when VAR is involved in Greece, the discussion between ref and VAR official is broadcast to the crowd.
They may not agree but they know what is said.
Seems very sensible to me. |
Yeah well it’s like what I said before as what fans/players/coaches always wanna know when any official makes a debatable decision is why. And the answer to that is what can help to sort issues/clear up controversy, as almost all coaches/players will agree that the better officials in the lower leagues are the ones that are actually approachable and don’t just ignore you when you ask them why they’ve given something, hence why soo many want it to be the same in the prem, as it’s always been the ignoring response in the top division since football began in England. [Post edited 21 Dec 2021 20:23]
| |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 08:59 - Dec 22 with 858 views | saint901 |
I understand that the ratio of minutes played to debatable decisions is decent but the purpose of VAR was to reduce them still further but instead it has created its own additional issues.
The Spurs/Liverpool match created a number of problems. Kane tackle, Jiota penalty call, Alli dive, Robertson sending off (initially a yellow).
Refs on the pitch are scared that too many visits to the VAR screen makes them look incompetent but if they don't listen to what the VAR people are saying - or worse, are allowed to ignore it - then we may as well abandon VAR.
The pace of the pro game now is such that mistakes will happen. It is also a fact that players are coached in how to make the most of contact and that makes it harder. Much as I hate to agree with Clattenburg he was right when he said that refs understand the rules but don't understand the game. | | | |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 10:06 - Dec 22 with 844 views | Bison |
|  |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 10:20 - Dec 22 with 838 views | saint68 |
Never any issue with VAR in major tournaments..solely in the Premier league basically..speaks volumes about the poor quality of referees available in England. | |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 10:21 - Dec 22 with 837 views | saint68 |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 10:06 - Dec 22 by Bison |
|
Nothing wrong with that😂🤣 | |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 11:00 - Dec 22 with 822 views | ElijahK |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 10:20 - Dec 22 by saint68 |
Never any issue with VAR in major tournaments..solely in the Premier league basically..speaks volumes about the poor quality of referees available in England. |
Or just simply the fact that international competitions are like the champions league for refs, as they have to qualify and be better than many other officials from all across the world to get into them, hence why there’s usually a max of 3 refs from the same nation at most world cups/Euros.
As I know that loads of people act soo childishly towards officials in England, but as someone who’s actually in referee discussion groups and such, I can confirm that as many refs mess up in the Bundesliga, League 1, LaLiga, Serie A etc as they do in the PL, it’s just we don’t watch that very often so went see when the regular screw up happens, but will always see the PL ones because it’s actually relevant to us and available for us to see on the likes of MOTD | |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 11:12 - Dec 22 with 808 views | saint68 |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 11:00 - Dec 22 by ElijahK |
Or just simply the fact that international competitions are like the champions league for refs, as they have to qualify and be better than many other officials from all across the world to get into them, hence why there’s usually a max of 3 refs from the same nation at most world cups/Euros.
As I know that loads of people act soo childishly towards officials in England, but as someone who’s actually in referee discussion groups and such, I can confirm that as many refs mess up in the Bundesliga, League 1, LaLiga, Serie A etc as they do in the PL, it’s just we don’t watch that very often so went see when the regular screw up happens, but will always see the PL ones because it’s actually relevant to us and available for us to see on the likes of MOTD |
There's a VAR issue here currently In fairness to your response..some teams want it gone.the feeling here is that the refereeing was adequate before and has declined since VAR...I mean some of the Barcelona V Real Madrid matches have been atrocious in recent years with what looks like snipers taking out players left right and centre..more pantomime than anything else. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 16:02 - Dec 22 with 736 views | saint901 |
It should not matter what level of football is being played because the rules are the same.
You could argue that the overall quality of the PL is better than say France, Germany, Spain, Italy which tend of have a couple/three really top teams and then others who make up the numbers. Therefore we should have the best officials because they get exposed to the best quality every week.
If it is the case that the officials are making errors in all games at all levels then there is perhaps a need to take a more radical approach.
As is said above VAR seems to work well in international tournaments so why is whatever is happening there, not replicated in the PL?
Nobody wants to hear a whistle blowing every 20 seconds but we as fans want things to be fair. If red fouls blue and nothing happens but blue fouls red and it's a free kick - why?
It's like justice. It's not enough that justice is done, it needs to be seen to be done.
Refs should be obliged to hold press conferences and explain. VAR should have the right to be heard and not be turned on or off at the discretion of the ref. VAR conversations should be broadcast in the grounds. It's not difficult. | | | |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 17:34 - Dec 22 with 710 views | ElijahK |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 16:02 - Dec 22 by saint901 |
It should not matter what level of football is being played because the rules are the same.
You could argue that the overall quality of the PL is better than say France, Germany, Spain, Italy which tend of have a couple/three really top teams and then others who make up the numbers. Therefore we should have the best officials because they get exposed to the best quality every week.
If it is the case that the officials are making errors in all games at all levels then there is perhaps a need to take a more radical approach.
As is said above VAR seems to work well in international tournaments so why is whatever is happening there, not replicated in the PL?
Nobody wants to hear a whistle blowing every 20 seconds but we as fans want things to be fair. If red fouls blue and nothing happens but blue fouls red and it's a free kick - why?
It's like justice. It's not enough that justice is done, it needs to be seen to be done.
Refs should be obliged to hold press conferences and explain. VAR should have the right to be heard and not be turned on or off at the discretion of the ref. VAR conversations should be broadcast in the grounds. It's not difficult. |
But that’s just not how it works, as all PL referees are ether British, or moved here at some point in life and have spent at leads like a decade officiating over here. As you don’t see some French fella officiate a PL game just like how you don’t see some English ref officiate a LaLiga game. As the level of officiating is similar to the level of play, as countries with a bigger/better footballing pyramid will have more refs doing better quality games so will experience and learn more at many different levels, whilst ones with very few will not have the time and small steps to adapt and learn.
Even then the PL doesn’t have the best quality football, but the quality is pretty irrelevant as I tee more their footballing pyramid that helps to aid in the development of officials, but even then being an official is like being a player, on the basis that you’ll only get a few world class players/officials at a time (like right now it’s Michael Oliver and Anthony Taylor for England). But officials aren’t making major errors in all games as we’ve had 2 over 1 GW and what most people see as “errors” aren’t as their decisions are subjective and there aren’t many decisions whatsoever that they make that are blatantly incorrect and not debatable whatsoever. And like I’ve already said, the reason we get less debate in international competitions is because the better officials are there, so unless we do create some super league then you’ll always have some decent and some poor officials in the leagues, just like how you have that with teams and their quality.
But you gotta realise that refs are human and make mistakes no different to how players do, as even then I’ve done loads of games where I’ve seen blatant fouls and then ones that weren’t and am called biased etc but in the end I know what I saw, as I’ve seen things at St Mary’s which I thought were fouls and then found out that they weren’t. But football will never be perfect on the officiating side, just like how it’s isn’t on the playing side ether. As the justice system has time and multiple people to think about stuff, whilst refs, like myself on a Sunday morning, get a max of what like 3 seconds, to make a decision over a incident.
VAR being broadcast I do agree with, but tefs doing press conferences won’t help/change anything as the decision has been made so is just irrelevant, whilst hearing what they say could at least give some reasoning behind what a refs thinking at the time and suggest to fans as to why he’s done what he’s done. | |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 18:25 - Dec 22 with 693 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 17:34 - Dec 22 by ElijahK |
But that’s just not how it works, as all PL referees are ether British, or moved here at some point in life and have spent at leads like a decade officiating over here. As you don’t see some French fella officiate a PL game just like how you don’t see some English ref officiate a LaLiga game. As the level of officiating is similar to the level of play, as countries with a bigger/better footballing pyramid will have more refs doing better quality games so will experience and learn more at many different levels, whilst ones with very few will not have the time and small steps to adapt and learn.
Even then the PL doesn’t have the best quality football, but the quality is pretty irrelevant as I tee more their footballing pyramid that helps to aid in the development of officials, but even then being an official is like being a player, on the basis that you’ll only get a few world class players/officials at a time (like right now it’s Michael Oliver and Anthony Taylor for England). But officials aren’t making major errors in all games as we’ve had 2 over 1 GW and what most people see as “errors” aren’t as their decisions are subjective and there aren’t many decisions whatsoever that they make that are blatantly incorrect and not debatable whatsoever. And like I’ve already said, the reason we get less debate in international competitions is because the better officials are there, so unless we do create some super league then you’ll always have some decent and some poor officials in the leagues, just like how you have that with teams and their quality.
But you gotta realise that refs are human and make mistakes no different to how players do, as even then I’ve done loads of games where I’ve seen blatant fouls and then ones that weren’t and am called biased etc but in the end I know what I saw, as I’ve seen things at St Mary’s which I thought were fouls and then found out that they weren’t. But football will never be perfect on the officiating side, just like how it’s isn’t on the playing side ether. As the justice system has time and multiple people to think about stuff, whilst refs, like myself on a Sunday morning, get a max of what like 3 seconds, to make a decision over a incident.
VAR being broadcast I do agree with, but tefs doing press conferences won’t help/change anything as the decision has been made so is just irrelevant, whilst hearing what they say could at least give some reasoning behind what a refs thinking at the time and suggest to fans as to why he’s done what he’s done. |
Everyone could always accept a ref making a mistake. And saying "I made a mistake" would also have gone a long way now and in the past. But VAR is there to help. Not telling the ref that a challenge is a clear red card, when they can see the replay and the ref can check his decision, is inexcusable. A leg breaking challenge that all agree is a red card, should have been a red card, simple as that. They had the replay to show the red card, so VAR should have told the ref "Go and have a look, it's a leg breaking tackle, definite red card, go and see". Nothing was done, unacceptable in this case. [Post edited 22 Dec 2021 18:28]
| |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 22:37 - Dec 22 with 663 views | ElijahK |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 18:25 - Dec 22 by Saintsforeverj |
Everyone could always accept a ref making a mistake. And saying "I made a mistake" would also have gone a long way now and in the past. But VAR is there to help. Not telling the ref that a challenge is a clear red card, when they can see the replay and the ref can check his decision, is inexcusable. A leg breaking challenge that all agree is a red card, should have been a red card, simple as that. They had the replay to show the red card, so VAR should have told the ref "Go and have a look, it's a leg breaking tackle, definite red card, go and see". Nothing was done, unacceptable in this case. [Post edited 22 Dec 2021 18:28]
|
Yeah I do agree there, but that one incident shouldn’t have caused this much hassle/fuss, as yeah they screwed up, but in the end it shouldn’t be this big of a deal | |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 23:07 - Dec 22 with 650 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 22:37 - Dec 22 by ElijahK |
Yeah I do agree there, but that one incident shouldn’t have caused this much hassle/fuss, as yeah they screwed up, but in the end it shouldn’t be this big of a deal |
The problem is, there are lots of examples like this and inconsistencies. | |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 11:08 - Dec 23 with 631 views | saint901 |
It would not be difficult to have a post match citing system as in rugby.
An incident by the ref or treated in too lenient a manner can be referred for further review. Each club to have one such challenge per match.
No goals to be chalked off or added as a result of the citing. | | | |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 14:31 - Dec 23 with 601 views | ElijahK |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 23:07 - Dec 22 by Saintsforeverj |
The problem is, there are lots of examples like this and inconsistencies. |
You say that but it’s not that often, as we’ve only had one of these against us this season and that was the penal Walker did when we played Man City and to my memory that’s it, as we’re only getting like 1/2 a week which isn’t that bad | |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 15:19 - Dec 23 with 596 views | saint901 |
Mr ElijahK is doing a grand job defending officials and we should all acknowledge that they're doing a job most of us could not or would not do.
In every match there are incidents which we think are unfair but which are not match turning. These are irritating and give the fans a sense of frustration. these will happen regardless of any changes.
VAR was meant to look at clear and obvious errors. It has suffered mission creep in that it now looks at every goal. If this means that it is to be used for crucial decisions then it should look at every yellow card and every red card incident - what is the difference between that and a goal?
If VAR will not do that in real time, then being able to cite players for dangerous or off the ball incidents should be possible.
Refs are not perfect, so let's really help them and not embarrass them. | | | |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 22:07 - Dec 23 with 576 views | ElijahK |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 15:19 - Dec 23 by saint901 |
Mr ElijahK is doing a grand job defending officials and we should all acknowledge that they're doing a job most of us could not or would not do.
In every match there are incidents which we think are unfair but which are not match turning. These are irritating and give the fans a sense of frustration. these will happen regardless of any changes.
VAR was meant to look at clear and obvious errors. It has suffered mission creep in that it now looks at every goal. If this means that it is to be used for crucial decisions then it should look at every yellow card and every red card incident - what is the difference between that and a goal?
If VAR will not do that in real time, then being able to cite players for dangerous or off the ball incidents should be possible.
Refs are not perfect, so let's really help them and not embarrass them. |
Thanks 😂, but look I ain’t saying that you shouldn’t every criticise a ref (as I sure have many times!), it’s just I feel as if no one ever really thinks about the other side/what it’s like to be in the refs position, and that we’ll always get controversy with or without VAR | |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 22:48 - Dec 23 with 567 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 22:07 - Dec 23 by ElijahK |
Thanks 😂, but look I ain’t saying that you shouldn’t every criticise a ref (as I sure have many times!), it’s just I feel as if no one ever really thinks about the other side/what it’s like to be in the refs position, and that we’ll always get controversy with or without VAR |
I just can't come round to showing any kind of sympathy for a ref like Mike Dean, who struts around, sending off players and Ralph politely makes a comment and he gets fined. Doesn't really make you warm to refs when you can't even question a terrible decision. Why can't a manager say he thought the ref got it wrong without getting fined? Why can't the ref ever apologize and say "yeh, I made a mistake"? The fining of managers for simply questioning a terrible decision, the arrogant Mike Dean, the ref never ever explaining a decision or apologizing, means they get a lot of stick. It's not the fact that they make a mistake. We all understand they are humans and make mistakes but don't understand why they don't ever explain, apologize, or fine a manager for simply questioning a bad mistake. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 22:49]
| |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 23:18 - Dec 23 with 555 views | ElijahK |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 22:48 - Dec 23 by Saintsforeverj |
I just can't come round to showing any kind of sympathy for a ref like Mike Dean, who struts around, sending off players and Ralph politely makes a comment and he gets fined. Doesn't really make you warm to refs when you can't even question a terrible decision. Why can't a manager say he thought the ref got it wrong without getting fined? Why can't the ref ever apologize and say "yeh, I made a mistake"? The fining of managers for simply questioning a terrible decision, the arrogant Mike Dean, the ref never ever explaining a decision or apologizing, means they get a lot of stick. It's not the fact that they make a mistake. We all understand they are humans and make mistakes but don't understand why they don't ever explain, apologize, or fine a manager for simply questioning a bad mistake. [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 22:49]
|
In all fairness mate, where your a ref or not, the likes of Mike Dean and John Moss BAFFLE ME! As my mates have genuinely asked me of how bad I see them as a ref to ref, and whether I could do better or not, as if it wasn’t for my inexperience with qualified linesman, speed of play and VAR, I think a level 6 young ref, such as myself could officiate a PL game better than those two usually can!
But why Ralph and other managers are fined for being pretty polite/respectful (as yeah it ain’t the most, but it’s not as bad as the likes of Mourinho, Wenger, Fergie etc as they basically ask for them) and ask fair questions (although the Chelsea red unfortunately was one), but that’s the FA not the refs, and they don’t apologise because it’s not gonna change anything (and 9 times out of 10 they were correct/had a reason to give their decision), but explaining the decision is why people are saying that what they say on VAR should be open to the public, as yeah there’s no reason why a ref shouldn’t explain his decision (as I do it all the time with major decisions in my games). [Post edited 23 Dec 2021 23:23]
| |
| |
| Seriously - there needs to be a review over refs and VAR on 23:33 - Dec 24 with 516 views | sledger |
Nothing wrong with var problem is referees refereeing referees always said this,some referees will not try to correct more senior referees,var needs specialists not connected to the referees | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
