| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? 18:00 - Mar 19 with 2822 views | ElijahK |
Ok recently I’ve seen a lot of posts on here about officials, and their decisions etc. And as someone who’s a ref myself I’d love to hear what people on here expect of officials, as well as if any of them can answer my questions below? So I’d be interested to see of what people say in response to these questions.
Firstly, what is it that people expect from officials? A 100% perfect game, a 90% perfect… or just the major decisions? Like what do you expect VAR to get involved in and how it should be edited/used in the future.
Secondly, why do soo many think that the officiating abroad is soo much better than it is in the UK? Is it because of the champions league, and the officials in that, or is it because they watch the foreign leagues so see the officials in them. (as I myself have watched LaLiga, Siri’s A, Bundesliga etc, and the officiating mistakes they make in them can be just as baffling as some of the ones in the prem).
And lastly why don’t fans realise that it’s not going to get any better with how officials are currently treated. As everyone loves to criticise them when they do mess up (and even many times when they don’t mess up), yet no one praises them when they do well. As they get loads of abuse and threats at all sorts of levels, yet get very little (if any at all praise), whilst many other officials in other sports get a lot more respect compared to them, so why not football? As if we keep giving officials abuse, only less will come through (as I myself know loads of former officials that all stopped because of the abuse they got, meaning that their was fewer and fewer refs around to get to the top), as many lower leagues have referee droughts. Yet all those that abuse them, never seem to turn around and do it themselves. So why is that, and is not the way we treat them only making things worse? |  |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:27 - Mar 19 with 2155 views | Saintsforeverj |
Firstly, nobody expects 100% perfection. But they expect a bit of humility perhaps - the odd apology, "I got it wrong". In the same way you say players should be able to be criticised in the other thread (and I agree), refs should be able to be criticised too, without being fined don't you think? We arn't in Russia. Why can't a manager say he disagrees with a decision, without being punished?
VAR - If there is any doubt at all, the ref should be go to the monitor. Simple as that. There is so much inconsistency because sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. That gets fans wondering why.
And they just get so many decisions wrong. Our penalty at the Etihad, the clear handball the other week in one of the games. How can they get it wrong when they have VAR and a monitor to check? [Post edited 19 Mar 2022 18:32]
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:35 - Mar 19 with 2135 views | Bicester_North |
Refs have a very tough job, some like Dean 100% give certain big clubs favourable decisions at home and this has been going on for years. That’s cheating so they are cheating scum.
However, their hands are tied because cheating, snide, diving players should receive immediate red cards and a ban, so football rules are pathetic in that all this play acting utter shit is still allowed.
Top level football at all levels including owners, directors, law makers, players and fans is full of ludicrous, shameful c*nts unfortunately and referees are just a small part of this | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:41 - Mar 19 with 2126 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:27 - Mar 19 by Saintsforeverj |
Firstly, nobody expects 100% perfection. But they expect a bit of humility perhaps - the odd apology, "I got it wrong". In the same way you say players should be able to be criticised in the other thread (and I agree), refs should be able to be criticised too, without being fined don't you think? We arn't in Russia. Why can't a manager say he disagrees with a decision, without being punished?
VAR - If there is any doubt at all, the ref should be go to the monitor. Simple as that. There is so much inconsistency because sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. That gets fans wondering why.
And they just get so many decisions wrong. Our penalty at the Etihad, the clear handball the other week in one of the games. How can they get it wrong when they have VAR and a monitor to check? [Post edited 19 Mar 2022 18:32]
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Yeah fair enough with the criticism part, as I think that you’ve got the right to ask/critics decisions that are definitely incorrect, and as long as you don’t take it too far (like saying they should be sacked/never ref again etc) then can state their opinion on any incident. But if that does happen, then shouldn’t refs/fans also defend them when they do get it right or praise them when they’ve had a decent game, and also make that public?
VAR wise, I was actually speaking to a championship ref the other day about this as he’s licensed for it and such, but sometimes the replays they get at the time on the incident, isn’t necessarily the ones we see after the incident, on the highlights/MOTD, but yeah I agree that if theirs any doubt they should go to the monitor (as that’s what they’re meant to do), but even he admitted that he doesn’t always understand all the mistakes that certainly officials make.
And yes they do get many decisions wrong, but first off it’s almost always the same 3/4 refs, so why is it we always criticise all refs, as I honestly can’t remember the last time Michale Oliver made a major mistake, yet we highlight one refs mistakes as all of their mistakes. And secondly, there will always be howling mistakes, and on average I’d probably say we have one every 20 games in the prem (so every two match weeks) which isn’t too poor, as we have 38 games over a season, and in all fairness we’ve only had like 4 major mistakes outta the 29 games we’ve played, yet those other ones never get highlighted for positive refereeing.
But how do you expect the levels of officiating to get much better when all they get is abuse then? As players get a bit of abuse, certainly… but they also get loads of credit and fame, which is why soo many people wanna be pro footballers. But with refs, they almost always get abuse, but they very rarely (if ever) get credit, and are aren’t that famous/remembered (or at least not for the positive reasons), hence why soo few want to do it, and that abuse that they continue to get is what makes that number only continue to decrease even more as time goes on. | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:46 - Mar 19 with 2117 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:35 - Mar 19 by Bicester_North |
Refs have a very tough job, some like Dean 100% give certain big clubs favourable decisions at home and this has been going on for years. That’s cheating so they are cheating scum.
However, their hands are tied because cheating, snide, diving players should receive immediate red cards and a ban, so football rules are pathetic in that all this play acting utter shit is still allowed.
Top level football at all levels including owners, directors, law makers, players and fans is full of ludicrous, shameful c*nts unfortunately and referees are just a small part of this |
I agree that they can certainly prefer the top teams from some of the decisions they give (whether they favour them I’m not gonna get into), but that’s just 1 ref, as a majority aren’t like that, so why is it we only look at the 3/4 poor ones, and not the 16 ok/decent refs?
And yeah the LOTG can make it harder to officiate as they have to keep to them (and for simulation there’s certain rules (although they’re not actually written in the law books) for what classifies as simulation, or just going down easy), and some should change to try and improve/get football better.
And for your last point, but why are the refs the ones that get the stick for it then? As you’ve just named others that many dislike/think is poor, yet they don’t get anywhere near as much abuse as refs, so why is that? | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:47 - Mar 19 with 2111 views | Heisenberg |
Some referees are either dishonest or simply incompetent. Dean is the worst with his attention seeking making it all about him. Some of the decisions hr makes are baffling to say the least.
Saying that they do need to be protected from player abuse and the constant cheating making decision making more difficult. Let’s put a mike on refs so we can hear discussions with VAR like in rugby and cricket. Also bring in retrospective punishments for players diving taking that away from the refs.
Overall though the standard of refereeing compared to the other major leagues in Europe is poor. I don’t know if it’s the training but Dean Moss Friend and others are screwing up every week. |  |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:54 - Mar 19 with 2097 views | Saintsforeverj |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:41 - Mar 19 by ElijahK |
Yeah fair enough with the criticism part, as I think that you’ve got the right to ask/critics decisions that are definitely incorrect, and as long as you don’t take it too far (like saying they should be sacked/never ref again etc) then can state their opinion on any incident. But if that does happen, then shouldn’t refs/fans also defend them when they do get it right or praise them when they’ve had a decent game, and also make that public?
VAR wise, I was actually speaking to a championship ref the other day about this as he’s licensed for it and such, but sometimes the replays they get at the time on the incident, isn’t necessarily the ones we see after the incident, on the highlights/MOTD, but yeah I agree that if theirs any doubt they should go to the monitor (as that’s what they’re meant to do), but even he admitted that he doesn’t always understand all the mistakes that certainly officials make.
And yes they do get many decisions wrong, but first off it’s almost always the same 3/4 refs, so why is it we always criticise all refs, as I honestly can’t remember the last time Michale Oliver made a major mistake, yet we highlight one refs mistakes as all of their mistakes. And secondly, there will always be howling mistakes, and on average I’d probably say we have one every 20 games in the prem (so every two match weeks) which isn’t too poor, as we have 38 games over a season, and in all fairness we’ve only had like 4 major mistakes outta the 29 games we’ve played, yet those other ones never get highlighted for positive refereeing.
But how do you expect the levels of officiating to get much better when all they get is abuse then? As players get a bit of abuse, certainly… but they also get loads of credit and fame, which is why soo many people wanna be pro footballers. But with refs, they almost always get abuse, but they very rarely (if ever) get credit, and are aren’t that famous/remembered (or at least not for the positive reasons), hence why soo few want to do it, and that abuse that they continue to get is what makes that number only continue to decrease even more as time goes on. |
Fans just need to hear the odd apology from a ref when he gets it wrong or an explanation when a decision is so obviously wrong. That would go along way with fans I think. They just want to hear why a ref didn't go to the monitor to check an obvious handball or terrible challenge. They just want to know. Was the ref not told? Did the VAR official go off for a cup of tea and miss it? Fans just want to know.
The refs also need some clarity with the rules of course. The criticism is not just at refs personally most of the time. It's the lack of consistency. They need to decide on handball for example. At the moment, some are given, some arn't and it's just not fair. They should take away all this nonsense of does the ball his the arm under the shoulder or is it 2cm away etc. It should just be deliberate or not. [Post edited 19 Mar 2022 18:56]
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:16 - Mar 19 with 2062 views | solent_toffee |
Apply the same rules to all clubs. This season it’s become more and more obvious that the ‘big 6’ get decisions that the rest of us would never get.
Everton have had two blatant penalties against Spurs and City that would have been given had it’s been on the other foot. Saints penalty and sending off against City would never get overturned the other way round. James Milner at Anfield commuting a shocking tackle two minutes after getting a yellow. McTominay having Christ knows how many yellow card tackles against Leeds the other week.
For most of the games against Liverpool, City and United, it’s bordering on cheating and feels like 11 v 12. | | | |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:21 - Mar 19 with 2053 views | Bicester_North |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:46 - Mar 19 by ElijahK |
I agree that they can certainly prefer the top teams from some of the decisions they give (whether they favour them I’m not gonna get into), but that’s just 1 ref, as a majority aren’t like that, so why is it we only look at the 3/4 poor ones, and not the 16 ok/decent refs?
And yeah the LOTG can make it harder to officiate as they have to keep to them (and for simulation there’s certain rules (although they’re not actually written in the law books) for what classifies as simulation, or just going down easy), and some should change to try and improve/get football better.
And for your last point, but why are the refs the ones that get the stick for it then? As you’ve just named others that many dislike/think is poor, yet they don’t get anywhere near as much abuse as refs, so why is that? |
No one wants to “look at” the refs at all, they come to watch the football, so if a ref doesn’t get mentioned they’ve likely done a good job, and Collina for one was universally praised.
So naturally the suspect ones get the attention. | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:22 - Mar 19 with 2049 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:47 - Mar 19 by Heisenberg |
Some referees are either dishonest or simply incompetent. Dean is the worst with his attention seeking making it all about him. Some of the decisions hr makes are baffling to say the least.
Saying that they do need to be protected from player abuse and the constant cheating making decision making more difficult. Let’s put a mike on refs so we can hear discussions with VAR like in rugby and cricket. Also bring in retrospective punishments for players diving taking that away from the refs.
Overall though the standard of refereeing compared to the other major leagues in Europe is poor. I don’t know if it’s the training but Dean Moss Friend and others are screwing up every week. |
But how do you know that the officiate standard is worse than the other leagues? As I watch all the other major leagues quite often and they mess up just as much as the English ones do, so what you’ve said there just ain’t true.
But I agree that some refs may seek attention by some of the stuff they do, but then it goes back to that point of, why is it we just highlight them and not the ones that don’t do that?
But yeah the championship ref I was speaking to the other day said that their will probably be mikes made public, and that there will a be a cheaper version of VAR for the championship. But the apology proposal just wouldn’t necessarily work, as it doesn’t change what’s happened, and it also will only cause more issues when fans/coaches/players start asking for refs to do so for basically everything, as well as them expecting them for decisions that the officials have got correct | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:25 - Mar 19 with 2044 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:54 - Mar 19 by Saintsforeverj |
Fans just need to hear the odd apology from a ref when he gets it wrong or an explanation when a decision is so obviously wrong. That would go along way with fans I think. They just want to hear why a ref didn't go to the monitor to check an obvious handball or terrible challenge. They just want to know. Was the ref not told? Did the VAR official go off for a cup of tea and miss it? Fans just want to know.
The refs also need some clarity with the rules of course. The criticism is not just at refs personally most of the time. It's the lack of consistency. They need to decide on handball for example. At the moment, some are given, some arn't and it's just not fair. They should take away all this nonsense of does the ball his the arm under the shoulder or is it 2cm away etc. It should just be deliberate or not. [Post edited 19 Mar 2022 18:56]
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For the apology suggestion, we’ll I’ve just said above about why that wouldn’t work, but I’d certainly agree that they could explain their decisions (but that would come with the mike’s and such).
And the rules are written meaning that it’s always down to interpretation. As it’ll be no different with the intentional/unintentional handballs etc, as I think what they’ve got that at is ok as now at least you can tell when a refs messed up and when they’ve not, rather than it being all opinionated over whether it’s a handball or not. | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:28 - Mar 19 with 2041 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:16 - Mar 19 by solent_toffee |
Apply the same rules to all clubs. This season it’s become more and more obvious that the ‘big 6’ get decisions that the rest of us would never get.
Everton have had two blatant penalties against Spurs and City that would have been given had it’s been on the other foot. Saints penalty and sending off against City would never get overturned the other way round. James Milner at Anfield commuting a shocking tackle two minutes after getting a yellow. McTominay having Christ knows how many yellow card tackles against Leeds the other week.
For most of the games against Liverpool, City and United, it’s bordering on cheating and feels like 11 v 12. |
I agree that there is favouring towards the bigger teams, but some of the incidents you’ve named aren’t the greatest of examples. As in the Man City game, it wasn’t a red (still a yellow and a pen, but not a red), so VAR did need to be used, but it should’ve just been for the card, and the pen for you against City is another dodgy one as if VAR had checked for offside in the buildup then they’d of seen that he was off so it wouldn’t have been a pen (but how they didn’t even give it as a pen anyway, I don’t get).
But even then, it goes back to the pint of that being almost always the same 3/4 officials, so why do we critique all of them and not just those 3/4 refs? | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:31 - Mar 19 with 2037 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:21 - Mar 19 by Bicester_North |
No one wants to “look at” the refs at all, they come to watch the football, so if a ref doesn’t get mentioned they’ve likely done a good job, and Collina for one was universally praised.
So naturally the suspect ones get the attention. |
Ok but then why is it we look at them when they have a poor game? As I do think it’s unfair that you’ll give someone no credit when they do a decent job, yet will give them loads of abuse when they do a poor one (and even then sometimes they can get abuse for doing a decent/correct job, just because one team won’t except that they were wrong). As even then, you can maybe mention it, but why hang onto it for soo long and have that as the only major event/thing remembered about the game? | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 23:20 - Mar 19 with 1920 views | DorsetIan |
Everyone, including the officials, have been let down by VAR.
Nobody knows who’s in charge any more, there’s little consistency, and decisions are ‘wrong’ at least as often as they were before VAR.
Sometimes together VAR and the ref get it right.
Sometimes the VAR official gets it wrong all on his own and doesn’t refer the onfield ref to the monitor (recent obvious handball not given).
Sometimes the VAR official sh1ts himself, can’t make an obvious decision, so refers the onfield ref to the monitor. When the onfield ref is referred to monitor he knows someone else thinks there a potential issue, so rarely does an onfield ref look at the monitor and decide ‘nah, b0ll0cks, that’s fine’. They usually just side with the VAR person who’s referred them there. (Sending off of Everton player the other night).
Utter utter shambles. But there’s clearly no one in charge with the wit to sort it out. | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 23:31 - Mar 19 with 1919 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 23:20 - Mar 19 by DorsetIan |
Everyone, including the officials, have been let down by VAR.
Nobody knows who’s in charge any more, there’s little consistency, and decisions are ‘wrong’ at least as often as they were before VAR.
Sometimes together VAR and the ref get it right.
Sometimes the VAR official gets it wrong all on his own and doesn’t refer the onfield ref to the monitor (recent obvious handball not given).
Sometimes the VAR official sh1ts himself, can’t make an obvious decision, so refers the onfield ref to the monitor. When the onfield ref is referred to monitor he knows someone else thinks there a potential issue, so rarely does an onfield ref look at the monitor and decide ‘nah, b0ll0cks, that’s fine’. They usually just side with the VAR person who’s referred them there. (Sending off of Everton player the other night).
Utter utter shambles. But there’s clearly no one in charge with the wit to sort it out. |
I dunno about the Everton red (as he had no intention to get the ball and had his studs very high up with a lot of force going into the Newcastle players), but what you’ve said on VAR I think it’s pretty fair/true, but hopefully that can all change then I guess. | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 23:52 - Mar 19 with 1912 views | DorsetIan |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 23:31 - Mar 19 by ElijahK |
I dunno about the Everton red (as he had no intention to get the ball and had his studs very high up with a lot of force going into the Newcastle players), but what you’ve said on VAR I think it’s pretty fair/true, but hopefully that can all change then I guess. |
I agree that the Everton one wasn’t an outrageously wrong red but it was marginal for me and the ref gave a yellow immediately. For me, it was just a good illustration of how VAR deals with these marginal ones. VAR official will be criticised if doesn’t refer ref to monitor, so does so out of caution. But once ref has been referred that’s now making him think he got it wrong.
Maybe the VAR ref needs three buttons.
1. Clear mistake - only that would cause the onfield ref to look again too.
2. Marginal - stick with onfield ref.
3. Agree with onfield ref - stick with decision.
And if they can’t press button 1 or 3 within 30 seconds, then 2 is pressed automatically.
The VAR ref will still get it wrong sometimes but at least the onus will be on interfering with the game as little as possible and giving priority to the onfield decisions. | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 07:14 - Mar 20 with 1853 views | saintwizzler |
I expect Mike Dean to be the centre of attention.
Celebrity ref. |  |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 07:37 - Mar 20 with 1839 views | solent_toffee |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 23:52 - Mar 19 by DorsetIan |
I agree that the Everton one wasn’t an outrageously wrong red but it was marginal for me and the ref gave a yellow immediately. For me, it was just a good illustration of how VAR deals with these marginal ones. VAR official will be criticised if doesn’t refer ref to monitor, so does so out of caution. But once ref has been referred that’s now making him think he got it wrong.
Maybe the VAR ref needs three buttons.
1. Clear mistake - only that would cause the onfield ref to look again too.
2. Marginal - stick with onfield ref.
3. Agree with onfield ref - stick with decision.
And if they can’t press button 1 or 3 within 30 seconds, then 2 is pressed automatically.
The VAR ref will still get it wrong sometimes but at least the onus will be on interfering with the game as little as possible and giving priority to the onfield decisions. |
I was at the game and immediately thought it was a red and was surprised that it was then given as a yellow. But when it was then overturned and given a red and I actually saw it again from various angles thought it was a yellow. Opinions and all that.
I have absolutely no doubt though had that been James Milner it would have been given as a yellow all day long. | | | |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 13:42 - Mar 20 with 1678 views | kingslandstand1 |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 07:14 - Mar 20 by saintwizzler |
I expect Mike Dean to be the centre of attention.
Celebrity ref. |
This I'm afraid |  | | |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:45 - Mar 20 with 1580 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 07:14 - Mar 20 by saintwizzler |
I expect Mike Dean to be the centre of attention.
Celebrity ref. |
Well at least this wasn’t the case today | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 08:50 - Mar 21 with 1473 views | PaleRider |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 19:45 - Mar 20 by ElijahK |
Well at least this wasn’t the case today |
Nobody expects perfection but I expect competency, honesty, consistency, integrity, transparency and accountability. Three are missing and two are questionable. I think most refs at PL level are competent.
Given the riches in the PL and the introduction of technology, which seems to work well in other sports and at major football championships, it is really sad to see how far the level of English refereeing has fallen from the days when we regularly used to have some of the best refs in the World. Maybe it's because refs now expect respect for just turning up, regardless of their performance.
I'm not saying it's easy with the speed of the game and widespread cheating by players but if PL refs are the best I shudder to imagine what the standard is like in the lower reaches. | | | |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 15:07 - Mar 21 with 1402 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 08:50 - Mar 21 by PaleRider |
Nobody expects perfection but I expect competency, honesty, consistency, integrity, transparency and accountability. Three are missing and two are questionable. I think most refs at PL level are competent.
Given the riches in the PL and the introduction of technology, which seems to work well in other sports and at major football championships, it is really sad to see how far the level of English refereeing has fallen from the days when we regularly used to have some of the best refs in the World. Maybe it's because refs now expect respect for just turning up, regardless of their performance.
I'm not saying it's easy with the speed of the game and widespread cheating by players but if PL refs are the best I shudder to imagine what the standard is like in the lower reaches. |
The 6 words you’ve used there are interesting to hear, some of which I do agree with, others less so.
As consistently I’m pretty sure I’ve already discussed with you already, as refs can be like players on the tactics they use (as I myself am a ref that lets the game flow and let’s the game be physical, whilst I know others like to stop it to calm it down and may be a bit more soft on fouls), so if your talking about consistency over 90 minutes then yes, fair enough, but if it’s for week to week refs, then for non black and white things (offsides, goal line tech and maybe handballs) then that’ll never happen.
For honesty and Integrity, I think most refs are, but they’ve always gotta be the one to make the decision, and when a ball goes out but they don’t know who it touched last, are in an awkward position where they just have to go with their gets and hope for the best/try and sell it, otherwise it would only make things worse, but even then, the ref may say he didn’t know who’s throw in it was, but we can’t hear that so don’t know (although they may tell players that for all we know).
For transparent, well sometimes it can be hard to see/understand why it was given/not given due to you not being in the refs situation/position, as they could’ve seen it completely different and that could’ve changed everything. But even then you’re not always gonna understand everything as I don’t get how people think the world is flat, yet they still think that never the less and there will almost always be people who think that.
And the reason why officials are better at the major tournaments, is no different to why the teams are better in them, as the bigger the tournament, the better the players, the better the refs/officials, as you have to be better to qualify for them. Meaning that only like 2/3/4 English refs get into them, which are only the best ones.
But in reality what do you and others expect when refs still get stick no matter what they do, even when they do things correctly? As that’s not very appealing whatsoever to those that may think about doing it, and nether is all the tales of when people have done it, but never did it again because of what they experienced.
As yesterday Mike Dean certainly wasn’t amazing, but he did get the basics right, and that pen may have been soft, but was still a pen, yet many people on social media are still blaming and criticising him for the loss, when in reality it was definitely soft, but if it had been vice versa we’d of expected a pen, as that’s what they are in todays game. As many fans don’t seem to realise the difference between todays game and the past, as well as the fact that certain things refs have to follow as it’s their job, aren’t necessarily things they agree with. As that whole police blocking off the street for the Itchen end, was very annoying, but it wasn’t the policemen's who was blocking it faults as they had orders to follow, yet they’re still blamed, when in reality it’s not their fault, but whoever’s the boss of them, fault. Yet that person is no where to be seen and doesn’t receive any blame/get abuse from fans going by, and for the LOTG, it’s the same with refs and those that make the laws of the game.
And yeah in the lower leagues it can be poor (as I’ve done the southern league/Wessex league line for some ABYSMAL refs), but you almost always only remember reds for when they’ve been poor, and never highlight/remember them when they’ve been great, so will only ever really think of negatives when you think about refereeing experiences there. But also those refs don’t have VAR, which means that they can see things completely different to what they were or simply number 7 got in their way meaning they saw nothing and can just use players reactions/experience to try and guess at what to give. | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 16:58 - Mar 21 with 1352 views | Bazza |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 15:07 - Mar 21 by ElijahK |
The 6 words you’ve used there are interesting to hear, some of which I do agree with, others less so.
As consistently I’m pretty sure I’ve already discussed with you already, as refs can be like players on the tactics they use (as I myself am a ref that lets the game flow and let’s the game be physical, whilst I know others like to stop it to calm it down and may be a bit more soft on fouls), so if your talking about consistency over 90 minutes then yes, fair enough, but if it’s for week to week refs, then for non black and white things (offsides, goal line tech and maybe handballs) then that’ll never happen.
For honesty and Integrity, I think most refs are, but they’ve always gotta be the one to make the decision, and when a ball goes out but they don’t know who it touched last, are in an awkward position where they just have to go with their gets and hope for the best/try and sell it, otherwise it would only make things worse, but even then, the ref may say he didn’t know who’s throw in it was, but we can’t hear that so don’t know (although they may tell players that for all we know).
For transparent, well sometimes it can be hard to see/understand why it was given/not given due to you not being in the refs situation/position, as they could’ve seen it completely different and that could’ve changed everything. But even then you’re not always gonna understand everything as I don’t get how people think the world is flat, yet they still think that never the less and there will almost always be people who think that.
And the reason why officials are better at the major tournaments, is no different to why the teams are better in them, as the bigger the tournament, the better the players, the better the refs/officials, as you have to be better to qualify for them. Meaning that only like 2/3/4 English refs get into them, which are only the best ones.
But in reality what do you and others expect when refs still get stick no matter what they do, even when they do things correctly? As that’s not very appealing whatsoever to those that may think about doing it, and nether is all the tales of when people have done it, but never did it again because of what they experienced.
As yesterday Mike Dean certainly wasn’t amazing, but he did get the basics right, and that pen may have been soft, but was still a pen, yet many people on social media are still blaming and criticising him for the loss, when in reality it was definitely soft, but if it had been vice versa we’d of expected a pen, as that’s what they are in todays game. As many fans don’t seem to realise the difference between todays game and the past, as well as the fact that certain things refs have to follow as it’s their job, aren’t necessarily things they agree with. As that whole police blocking off the street for the Itchen end, was very annoying, but it wasn’t the policemen's who was blocking it faults as they had orders to follow, yet they’re still blamed, when in reality it’s not their fault, but whoever’s the boss of them, fault. Yet that person is no where to be seen and doesn’t receive any blame/get abuse from fans going by, and for the LOTG, it’s the same with refs and those that make the laws of the game.
And yeah in the lower leagues it can be poor (as I’ve done the southern league/Wessex league line for some ABYSMAL refs), but you almost always only remember reds for when they’ve been poor, and never highlight/remember them when they’ve been great, so will only ever really think of negatives when you think about refereeing experiences there. But also those refs don’t have VAR, which means that they can see things completely different to what they were or simply number 7 got in their way meaning they saw nothing and can just use players reactions/experience to try and guess at what to give. |
My pet hate; why do football refs always go backwards when approached by an angry player or surrounded by a group of players and they never hand out yellows when jostled by players.
You'll never see refs back off in Rugby games despite usually a size difference and they appear to better, frequently use other officials for their opinions. | | | |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 17:24 - Mar 21 with 1341 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 16:58 - Mar 21 by Bazza |
My pet hate; why do football refs always go backwards when approached by an angry player or surrounded by a group of players and they never hand out yellows when jostled by players.
You'll never see refs back off in Rugby games despite usually a size difference and they appear to better, frequently use other officials for their opinions. |
It’s to get out of the situation so you can keep your eyes on everything that’s going on and try and calm the players down by keeping a distance between them. And the yellows aren’t given (which I do think they should be given out more often for) as all that can do is make the situation worse by angering more players as well as giving them out for things that have no real connection to the game, which isn’t what the prem wants refs to do | |
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| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:12 - Mar 21 with 1324 views | Bazza |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 17:24 - Mar 21 by ElijahK |
It’s to get out of the situation so you can keep your eyes on everything that’s going on and try and calm the players down by keeping a distance between them. And the yellows aren’t given (which I do think they should be given out more often for) as all that can do is make the situation worse by angering more players as well as giving them out for things that have no real connection to the game, which isn’t what the prem wants refs to do |
Thanks for your explanation about wanting to see everything going on but don't you think it diminishes the ref's authority if he backs off. Not sure I get that harassing refs has 'no real connection to the game' when crowding players are clearly trying to influence his decisions. | | | |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 08:48 - Mar 22 with 1246 views | ElijahK |
| What is it that fans expect officials to do in today’s game? on 18:12 - Mar 21 by Bazza |
Thanks for your explanation about wanting to see everything going on but don't you think it diminishes the ref's authority if he backs off. Not sure I get that harassing refs has 'no real connection to the game' when crowding players are clearly trying to influence his decisions. |
Not really no, as if the ref stays where he is and has loads of players around his then he can’t necessarily see what’s going on in the background and players are more likely to do stupid things to the ref, whilst taking a few steps back allows them to always keep a distance between them and the players, so that nothing major happens.
And the reason why I said it’s got no real connection to the game is because it’s got nothing to do with the flow of the game (aka it’s something that’s not really allowed anywhere, anytime, like violent conduct, dissent, aggressive attitude etc, as they’re not what managers want players to get booked for/making a difference to the result, whilst denying and obvious goalscoring opportunity or stopping a promising attack etc will make a difference to the result and is part of the flow of the game) whilst other cautionable offences do. And yes players do try to influence a referee’s decision, but at a high level (aka EFL/Prem) it makes no difference as only VAR can really change anything and I’d it doesn’t, what the ref gives is what happens. So unless they cross a ref before a card comes out then it never really makes a difference at the higher levels | |
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