| The Playing Budget and Fanbase 10:42 - Jun 29 with 5698 views | A_Newby |
Although I read this forum regularly, I only rarely post a comment.
Oddly, as this is Rochdale football club forum, I don’t think I have ever actually posted any comments about football at the COA, the style of play or performance of the team (I would only be repeating other’s remarks).
My comments have all been about off field matters, and this post, though it mentions football in general, is again more about an off-field matter.
As this is going to be a long post, I will try to break it down into readable parts.
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 10:44 - Jun 29 with 5681 views | A_Newby |
Part 1. Football Club Aims.
The basic aim of RAFC and every football club is really quite simple. Each season it is to
- finish as high up the football league pyramid as they possibly can
- go as far as possible in all the cup competitions in which they are entered
- and along the way provide good, exciting entertainment for its “raison d’etre”- its supporters.
How does a football club do this? Again, the answer is somewhat obvious. It is, by having a talented manager leading a squad of players that as a TEAM implements his plan and tactics to
- play better football than the opposition
- score more goals than them
- and therefore, win more matches than the other competing teams.
In general, the teams that are more likely to win matches have a large squad of “better quality” more skilful and athletic players. So, every manager is looking to have as large a squad of these “superior” players that he can have.
For a manager this is when reality and the “playing budget” kicks in and they cannot afford the squad they would ideally like. Usually, the higher the playing budget the manager has, the more of the “superior” players that he can attract and the better is the team. | | | |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 10:46 - Jun 29 with 5672 views | A_Newby |
Part 2. Playing Budget Funding
There is a temptation by clubs to borrow money to fund an increased playing budget and hope to be successful enough to recoup this later. We have all witnessed the flaw in this approach at Bury, Oldham and other clubs.
The current RAFC board have wisely (IMHO) decided to run the club on a “sustainable basis” with the club outgoings and costs including the playing budget not exceeding the funds coming into the club.
This however does mean that the club often has a smaller playing budget than many of its league competitors meaning the wages we can offer may not match that which can be offered by our league opponents, and on wages alone we cannot compete for the services of the “best” players.
The current board have “stabilised” the club’s finances and by minimising costs have managed to increase this coming season’s playing budget. They also are looking at ways of using the club’s assets to maximise non-football related income to again invest in the first team budget, also an approach that I agree with.
However, over time for RAFC or any club to progress (up the leagues) and achieve more, or even just to survive in the EFL it will need to have a higher and ever-increasing playing budget.
It is MY OPINION that in the LONG RUN savings on costs and increasing funds from non-football activities will not be sufficient to continue the progression (which means constantly increasing playing budget) of the club.
In MY OPINION in order to progress, or even survive in the EFL, we also need to also increase football related income, this ultimately means increasing the number of supporters, the “lifeblood” of the club. | | | |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 10:49 - Jun 29 with 5653 views | A_Newby |
Part 3. The Fanbase.
We know we have a loyal but aging fan base of around 2-2,500 supporters but this number will sadly dwindle as we all eventually pass away. We need a large influx of new younger fans.
I know that the club and trust put in a great effort to increase the number of supporters, but I think it needs a more radical approach, say starting in the 2023-2024 season.
The Proposal.
Take two facts.
1. The price of a youth season card is £75.
2. There are many empty seats in the Pearl Street and Main Stands.
Imagine that RAFC give a free season card to a group of ten 14-15 year olds to use these ten of these empty seats. How much would this cost the club?
The answer is not £750 a year, it is in reality practically nothing.
In giving away these ten season cards the club does not need to spend any more money, no more staff are needed. There are basically the same fixed costs and no increase in variable costs.
Now imagine these ten teens attend some matches, they are likely to buy some refreshments and maybe even purchase some replica shirts from the club shop and in doing so make a small financial contribution to club finances that otherwise would not be there.
Now let’s scale this idea up. Let’s provide free season cards for one thousand 14—15 year-olds in the COA. Now this could probably cost the club a little extra money in extra stewarding but hopefully this could be offset (maybe surpassed) with increased income from the sales of refreshments and in the club shop.
Why 14-15 year olds? These are teenagers are in year 10 at school, they of an age where they could independently attend matches without their parents.
Some of the free season cards could be offered though schools’ PE departments using the Dale in the community links. There are around 10 secondary schools in Rochdale, and it would make sense to start with those schools that are closest to the ground (Falinge Park and Oulder Hill) as they are likely to have more 14-15 year old pupils who live within walking distance of the ground.
Now it is obvious that some of the 14-15 year olds who take a free season card will perhaps only attend one or two matches whilst some will attend more.
I am presuming that the automated match entry keeps a record of how many, and which matches season card holders attend (it should do). As an incentive all of those 14-15 year-olds who take a free season card who attend say at least 10 out of the 23 home games automatically get a free season card for the following season when they are 15-16 years old.
If as 15-16 year olds in the following season they attend again at least 10 out of 23 home games they then get a reduced priced season card at say £35 until they are 18, by which time hopefully they will be “hooked” on following the Dale.
We repeat this every season for say 6-10 seasons, which I know is a long time, but it is only after this period that we will know if the recruitment drive has been successful.
I am sure there will be some issues with this proposal that I have not thought of.
PS On another subject can anybody tell me how to change my username? | | | |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 11:40 - Jun 29 with 5497 views | TipperaryDale |
Good to see ideas floated on how to increase the fanbase. However - it is a problem not just at Rochdale, but across the game as a whole (and across every sport). Simply put, there are fewer youngsters interested in football than there used to be, and also fewer youngsters interested in live football. In my opinion, there has also been a diminished sense of local community as well, which was something which used to drive people to become fans (our town our team etc).
Maybe we need to re-evaluate the model of 'capturing' fans when they're teenagers and hoping they'll be lifelong fans... I would be tempted to look at the success of various non-league clubs in attracting older (25-40yr old-ish) fans and families, and asking how they do it. After all, these people are more stable, more likely to commit to long term outlay and have more disposable income. |  | | |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 12:30 - Jun 29 with 5322 views | D_Alien |
One factor rarely mentioned is the much higher percentage of teenagers who go on to become students, usually out of town and possibly at the other end of the country than back in the day
Even if they were introduced to Dale as youngsters and watched us on a regular basis, the habit may become broken during their time away and then not easy to re-instate as they may have gone with mates who are no longer about or they may themselves have chosen to live elsewhere
From personal experience, this could've happened to me as our glory years of the late 60s/early 70s fading from view coincided with my student days. For a couple of years, I just went to the occasional match or cup tie until Doug Collins arrived and reignited the spark
So... it could be in the interests of the club to target students before they leave for uni with incentives to keep watching, for instance during the Christmas/New Year and Easter holidays, plus the first month or so of the each new season. A 'student ticket' with other benefits attached, designed for this purpose might just keep them interested enough to return on a regular basis when they're earning after uni. Otherwise, we risk losing them for life, and whilst uni isn't for everyone, and there's plenty who don't go who make really great careers for themselves, generally speaking they're more likely to become successful professionals and these are the types who could go on to become the board members of the future |  |
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 13:02 - Jun 29 with 5209 views | boromat |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 12:30 - Jun 29 by D_Alien |
One factor rarely mentioned is the much higher percentage of teenagers who go on to become students, usually out of town and possibly at the other end of the country than back in the day
Even if they were introduced to Dale as youngsters and watched us on a regular basis, the habit may become broken during their time away and then not easy to re-instate as they may have gone with mates who are no longer about or they may themselves have chosen to live elsewhere
From personal experience, this could've happened to me as our glory years of the late 60s/early 70s fading from view coincided with my student days. For a couple of years, I just went to the occasional match or cup tie until Doug Collins arrived and reignited the spark
So... it could be in the interests of the club to target students before they leave for uni with incentives to keep watching, for instance during the Christmas/New Year and Easter holidays, plus the first month or so of the each new season. A 'student ticket' with other benefits attached, designed for this purpose might just keep them interested enough to return on a regular basis when they're earning after uni. Otherwise, we risk losing them for life, and whilst uni isn't for everyone, and there's plenty who don't go who make really great careers for themselves, generally speaking they're more likely to become successful professionals and these are the types who could go on to become the board members of the future |
There used to be a student season ticket that I thought was a good idea to catch those above the oldest age category but in full time education. I got stung when it was cancelled and it was a struggle to come up with the money for an adult main stand season ticket that was something like double what I'd paid the year before. |  |
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 13:13 - Jun 29 with 5177 views | judd |
Great thread.
One thing that is evident is that the board are prepared to listen and try out new ideas.
Interestingly on the theme of youth attending games, I help coach a youth football team and approximately half the players attend Dale games, many go away too, which causes us some problems. There are 3 teams in our particular age group and I regularly see players form these other teams at Dale games.
We are having our annual presentation this weekend and I am hoping to get the committee to move the venue to the Ratcliffe for next season. |  |
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 13:46 - Jun 29 with 5080 views | 49thseason |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 13:13 - Jun 29 by judd |
Great thread.
One thing that is evident is that the board are prepared to listen and try out new ideas.
Interestingly on the theme of youth attending games, I help coach a youth football team and approximately half the players attend Dale games, many go away too, which causes us some problems. There are 3 teams in our particular age group and I regularly see players form these other teams at Dale games.
We are having our annual presentation this weekend and I am hoping to get the committee to move the venue to the Ratcliffe for next season. |
I have long advocated forming stronger links with the local junior teams. There are a host of things the club could be doing to help these junior clubs to progress and become stronger. I think of running training sessions for coaches, Easter and Summer kids camps with some of the Academy coaches involved. Discounted use of meeting rooms and bars for presentation evenings, maybe even negotiating with suppliers to get kits in bulk. Organising team visits to the COA with free tickets, even involving them in a profit share of Gold Bond ticket sales that they might make.
When I have spok3n to coaches at some of the junior clubs, their contact with the club has been negligable and in some cases decidedly negative. There needs to be a strategy to chang all this. |  | | |
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 15:25 - Jun 29 with 4914 views | AtThePeake |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 11:40 - Jun 29 by TipperaryDale |
Good to see ideas floated on how to increase the fanbase. However - it is a problem not just at Rochdale, but across the game as a whole (and across every sport). Simply put, there are fewer youngsters interested in football than there used to be, and also fewer youngsters interested in live football. In my opinion, there has also been a diminished sense of local community as well, which was something which used to drive people to become fans (our town our team etc).
Maybe we need to re-evaluate the model of 'capturing' fans when they're teenagers and hoping they'll be lifelong fans... I would be tempted to look at the success of various non-league clubs in attracting older (25-40yr old-ish) fans and families, and asking how they do it. After all, these people are more stable, more likely to commit to long term outlay and have more disposable income. |
I'm not saying you're wrong Tipperary, but is there any evidence that fewer youngsters are interested in football than there used to be?
I think there's probably more evidence surrounding your second point re: live football - but how much of that is down to a lack of opportunity to actually experience it? |  |
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 15:43 - Jun 29 with 4858 views | James1980 |
Could the subscription model Wycombe are trying , become popular with other clubs in the future.
Edit
Not total gibberish now, only gibberish 😂 [Post edited 29 Jun 2022 18:09]
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 18:03 - Jun 29 with 4669 views | milnrowblue |
Thought you’d just signed for Colchester? | | | |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 18:10 - Jun 29 with 4652 views | James1980 |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 18:03 - Jun 29 by milnrowblue |
Thought you’d just signed for Colchester? |
😂😂😂 Fair point if directed at me. [Post edited 29 Jun 2022 19:24]
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 19:22 - Jun 29 with 4523 views | Brierls |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 18:10 - Jun 29 by James1980 |
😂😂😂 Fair point if directed at me. [Post edited 29 Jun 2022 19:24]
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Just a hunch, but it may have been directed at the OP ‘A_Newby’… |  | | |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 19:25 - Jun 29 with 4513 views | James1980 |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 19:22 - Jun 29 by Brierls |
Just a hunch, but it may have been directed at the OP ‘A_Newby’… |
Yes I expect this is more likely to be correct. | |
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 19:44 - Jun 29 with 4473 views | TipperaryDale |
Evidence no, this is just anecdotal, but from speaking to people (a couple of them teachers) computer games now are almost as big as football for youngsters. And I don't just mean playing Tetris down the arcade, I mean there are pro players, leagues, live streams etc, and there is an element of easy participation (anyone can play and potentially qualify for events) that football doesn't have for them. I also tend to see fewer kids playing football casually than there used to be. I think there's a lot more competition now than before in general.
Like I said, all anecdotal, but the old model of 'start going Dale with me Dad and carried on ever since' seems to be waning. | | | |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 19:57 - Jun 29 with 4438 views | TVOS1907 |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 19:22 - Jun 29 by Brierls |
Just a hunch, but it may have been directed at the OP ‘A_Newby’… |
.. especially as he asked how to change his username. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 09:01 - Jun 30 with 4141 views | AtThePeake |
| The Playing Budget and Fanbase on 19:44 - Jun 29 by TipperaryDale |
Evidence no, this is just anecdotal, but from speaking to people (a couple of them teachers) computer games now are almost as big as football for youngsters. And I don't just mean playing Tetris down the arcade, I mean there are pro players, leagues, live streams etc, and there is an element of easy participation (anyone can play and potentially qualify for events) that football doesn't have for them. I also tend to see fewer kids playing football casually than there used to be. I think there's a lot more competition now than before in general.
Like I said, all anecdotal, but the old model of 'start going Dale with me Dad and carried on ever since' seems to be waning. |
Well there can be no doubt that video games are almost as big as football for kids now - but it's worth noting that FIFA is still among the most popular one of those games. In fact, as a series, since it is updated every year, I'd wager that it's THE most popular. The hype around Fortnite for example seems to have died down after a couple of years. Not the case with FIFA.
That says to me there's still an interest in football, but that interest is just channeled differently to how it used to be. If the interest is there it can still be harnessed with a change of tact. (Not that I know what that change would be!) | |
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