| Mid season assessment 09:46 - Dec 14 with 7037 views | MattFinish |
Almost halfway through the season and what do we think?
Okay we’re unlucky that Leicester and Ipswich have made record breaking starts. Everyone is saying Ipswich will drop away because of their squad but we’re halfway through and there’s no sign of them falling away. If anything they’re getting stronger. It has to be said that they are way out in front because there are a lot of really poor sides in the Championship.
Having said that I think we have the players and the squad to be doing what Leicester and Ipswich are doing.
Are we going to get an automatic spot? I think Leicester and Ipswich are uncatchable. Are we going to pip Leeds for the third spot? I don’t think so.
We’re 13 points behind Leicester and 12 behind Ipswich. We’ve thrown 8 pts away against Coventry, Watford, Huddersfield and Rotherham. We dropped 8 pts at home against Norwich, Leicester and Ipswich and we dropped 6 points away to Sunderland and Middlesborough.
A lot of the goals we conceded were due to the style of football and we were told the players have to get used to a new style of play. Well they’re used to it now and we’re still dropping points we shouldn’t be. I think with the players and squad we have if we should have had 14 more points and that’s allowing for a draw at home to Leicester and Ipswich and Sunderland away. That would put us top on 53 pts with Leicester on 50 and Ipswich on 49.
So is Rustyball working? I’d say no. We are not killing games off and we’re dropping too many easy points. Okay we’re dominating teams on possession but what has that got us. We had more possession at home to Leicester and Ipswich and away at Sunderland but we came away without a point. At Sunderland we had nearly 70% possession and lost 5-0. Teams have worked us out. Sit back with 11 men behind the ball, we won’t find any telling passes and then catch us on the break late on.
Martin has had the squad now for nearly 6 months. They train probably 5-6 hours per day 4 or 5 days a week so really Rustyball should be like a well oiled machine. After all he’s been developing this system of play for over 4 years now. So how come he’s increasingly saying that the players are not doing what he asked them to do?
We’re struggling to beat teams using this style of play. We’re winning by single goal margins. Our promotion rivals are putting teams to the sword. The problem is when we go into added time with a narrow lead there is always a chance we’ll drop points late on. Apart from Leeds at home I don’t think we’ve beaten anyone comfortably.
My worry is that if we go up how will Rustyball fare in the Premier League? We’re dominating possession in a very poor league and just about beating sides. In the PL there is not a cat in hell’s chance we’re going to have anywhere near the same amount of possession so how will we beat teams then? I think if we go up we need to get all Cortese on Russell’s ass and bin him off for a better manager.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2023 9:47]
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| Mid season assessment on 09:54 - Dec 14 with 5955 views | PatfromPoole |
You think they train for 5-6 hours a day???!!!???
Divide that by 3 and you will be closer. |  |
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| Mid season assessment on 10:01 - Dec 14 with 5944 views | MattFinish |
| Mid season assessment on 09:54 - Dec 14 by PatfromPoole |
You think they train for 5-6 hours a day???!!!???
Divide that by 3 and you will be closer. |
😅 I stand corrected Pat. Personally I think it’s less than that | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 10:21 - Dec 14 with 5923 views | 131153 |
An interesting article and some valid points. There can be no doubt the surprise package is Ipswich and people who believe they are going to fall away are probably wrong. If I remember correctly the last team jump from L1 to the Prem was us. The two home games against Leicester and Ipswich sum it all up really In the Leicester game both teams made 3 defensive howlers they scored from all 3 and we scored once. Ipswich was lost on another howler once made the way we played meant we were unlikely to score so our best hope of points 0-0 was gone.
My best guess either us or Leeds will lose out in the play offs. If we go up I don't think our possession will be so sorely tested as others seem to think. But scoring will be difficult and taking into account our difficulties at present could mean another relegation. Who knows our best chance of going up might be next season it's unlikely the three who come down this year will be a strong as the current top 4 in this years Championship. |  | | |
| Mid season assessment on 10:31 - Dec 14 with 5901 views | PatfromPoole |
| Mid season assessment on 10:21 - Dec 14 by 131153 |
An interesting article and some valid points. There can be no doubt the surprise package is Ipswich and people who believe they are going to fall away are probably wrong. If I remember correctly the last team jump from L1 to the Prem was us. The two home games against Leicester and Ipswich sum it all up really In the Leicester game both teams made 3 defensive howlers they scored from all 3 and we scored once. Ipswich was lost on another howler once made the way we played meant we were unlikely to score so our best hope of points 0-0 was gone.
My best guess either us or Leeds will lose out in the play offs. If we go up I don't think our possession will be so sorely tested as others seem to think. But scoring will be difficult and taking into account our difficulties at present could mean another relegation. Who knows our best chance of going up might be next season it's unlikely the three who come down this year will be a strong as the current top 4 in this years Championship. |
We would lose all our best players though
Harwood-Bellis
Walker-Peters
Downes
Alcaraz
And would probably still have the dross who are holding us back.
Take those four players out of the team and it doesn’t look good. | |
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| Mid season assessment on 11:05 - Dec 14 with 5862 views | MattFinish |
| Mid season assessment on 10:31 - Dec 14 by PatfromPoole |
We would lose all our best players though
Harwood-Bellis
Walker-Peters
Downes
Alcaraz
And would probably still have the dross who are holding us back.
Take those four players out of the team and it doesn’t look good. |
I think we could easily lose KWP, Alcaraz and Sulemana at Christmas. If Alcaraz went I wouldn't blame him. You can see how playing Rustyball has hamstrung him this season. Last season Alcaraz was one of the bright sparks of our season and looked a brilliant prospecy even in the PL with decisive attacking football, willing to have a shot at every opportunity. This season you can see when he gets into a promising position he holds back and looks for a Rustyball short sideways pass | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 12:10 - Dec 14 with 5772 views | saint22 |
| Mid season assessment on 10:21 - Dec 14 by 131153 |
An interesting article and some valid points. There can be no doubt the surprise package is Ipswich and people who believe they are going to fall away are probably wrong. If I remember correctly the last team jump from L1 to the Prem was us. The two home games against Leicester and Ipswich sum it all up really In the Leicester game both teams made 3 defensive howlers they scored from all 3 and we scored once. Ipswich was lost on another howler once made the way we played meant we were unlikely to score so our best hope of points 0-0 was gone.
My best guess either us or Leeds will lose out in the play offs. If we go up I don't think our possession will be so sorely tested as others seem to think. But scoring will be difficult and taking into account our difficulties at present could mean another relegation. Who knows our best chance of going up might be next season it's unlikely the three who come down this year will be a strong as the current top 4 in this years Championship. |
"if we go up scoring will be difficult"
We find it difficult in this league
We are an average side lacking a beast of a striker and one of our only 3 creative players ever starts
Pass pass pass miss
Its been said a lot but we are going nowhere with Wussell. He is doing with us what he did with his previous, possession based easy opposition no real threat or cutting edge just muddling through averagely
Twas ever thus | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 12:11 - Dec 14 with 5771 views | Heisenberg |
I’m enjoying it. Couldn’t give a shite about the Premier League and playing oil rich Middle Eastern states.
As for the football. It’s pedestrian against most teams who decide to get everyone behind the ball knowing we haven’t got a play maker who can unlock defences. That’s why we have lots of possession. We don’t have the players to do something special so an easy pass is the only option. Saying that Id rather watch that than lump it forward stuff.
Calling for RM to be sacked after 13 games unbeaten is ridiculous. |  |
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| Mid season assessment on 12:55 - Dec 14 with 5700 views | TripleNiemi |
| Mid season assessment on 11:05 - Dec 14 by MattFinish |
I think we could easily lose KWP, Alcaraz and Sulemana at Christmas. If Alcaraz went I wouldn't blame him. You can see how playing Rustyball has hamstrung him this season. Last season Alcaraz was one of the bright sparks of our season and looked a brilliant prospecy even in the PL with decisive attacking football, willing to have a shot at every opportunity. This season you can see when he gets into a promising position he holds back and looks for a Rustyball short sideways pass |
Is Rustyball the official term for ponderous, sideways own half football? |  |
| Ready and waiting to mop up those European places...... |
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| Mid season assessment on 12:58 - Dec 14 with 5700 views | TripleNiemi |
| Mid season assessment on 12:11 - Dec 14 by Heisenberg |
I’m enjoying it. Couldn’t give a shite about the Premier League and playing oil rich Middle Eastern states.
As for the football. It’s pedestrian against most teams who decide to get everyone behind the ball knowing we haven’t got a play maker who can unlock defences. That’s why we have lots of possession. We don’t have the players to do something special so an easy pass is the only option. Saying that Id rather watch that than lump it forward stuff.
Calling for RM to be sacked after 13 games unbeaten is ridiculous. |
Couldn’t agree more; not fussed on returning to the Prem.
That said (and it’s nuts anyone suggesting another manager change) I do find it hard to watch if I am honest, just frustrates the shît out of me. Provide lad we keep getting results the fan base will be fine, but a few losses and the style of football we play could mean things get toxic fast. | |
| Ready and waiting to mop up those European places...... |
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| Mid season assessment on 13:04 - Dec 14 with 5685 views | saint22 |
| Mid season assessment on 12:11 - Dec 14 by Heisenberg |
I’m enjoying it. Couldn’t give a shite about the Premier League and playing oil rich Middle Eastern states.
As for the football. It’s pedestrian against most teams who decide to get everyone behind the ball knowing we haven’t got a play maker who can unlock defences. That’s why we have lots of possession. We don’t have the players to do something special so an easy pass is the only option. Saying that Id rather watch that than lump it forward stuff.
Calling for RM to be sacked after 13 games unbeaten is ridiculous. |
I am not advocating he gets sacked
I am asking for plan B, another way of playing, better subs and team selection, more shots on target and hence wins not draws, that what makes a manager, someone who is proactive, creates a change not someone who just lets it play out in front of him
Our shooting and goals ratio is awful and has been since game one, change it. He bought in Calderwood and now the defence looks solid, maybe needs an attacking coach, but that begs they question what is Wussell bringing?
lets see shall we but I would look at ipswich and what they have done and how they play and ask why aren't we where they are? We were two leagues apart | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 13:08 - Dec 14 with 5676 views | City_boy |
| Mid season assessment on 12:58 - Dec 14 by TripleNiemi |
Couldn’t agree more; not fussed on returning to the Prem.
That said (and it’s nuts anyone suggesting another manager change) I do find it hard to watch if I am honest, just frustrates the shît out of me. Provide lad we keep getting results the fan base will be fine, but a few losses and the style of football we play could mean things get toxic fast. |
Likewise, I find it very hard to watch. The build up is so slow and painful.
The possession stat is so miss leading, Many teams we have played this year have had more meaningful attempts on goal than us with 30% posession. I just don't get the obsession with this posession style of football. Fine for teams like Man City with world class players throughout, but we have proved we can't even beat the teams at the bottom with this style.
We had one good game where we dominated - Cardiff.
I agree teams will play with 2 banks of 4 at the back against us, and know they just need to wait and hit us on the break. If we can't deal with this, we will not get out of this division. [Post edited 14 Dec 2023 13:10]
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| Mid season assessment on 13:32 - Dec 14 with 5632 views | saint901 |
It's a fair assessment and highlights a number of issues which will stand in the way of winning automatic promotion.
It's not enough to have the ball - we have to do something positive with it.
That risks losing the ball in which case we need to be back into a shape, press the opposition to win it back and go again.
We particularly have to stop playing short passes at the back. Sometimes a foot through it is needed - do it.
Many of us fans have two key reasons for our present views. One is that we recognise we are not playing expansive football and winning 4-3 and we are prepared to accept that lack of entertainment if results and position in the table are good. If it looks like we will not be top 6 in April (and I think we will be 3/4) then the mood will be ugly.
The other is that many started the season with unrealistic expectation and reality biting now is uncomfortable. We were never going to be table toppers after we lost players. Some of those who left were not contributing anyway. Some were and some could have but the club needed to re-set its finances and they had to go. (Contrast us with Leicester who sold Maddison and have not missed him at all).
Reality was that we are a mid table Championship team this season and we are presently hitting above our weight. We cannot catch the top 2 and will do well to hang on to Leeds.
We are looking at the lottery of the playoffs then.
And RM?
I've said before - and I'll say it again - he's not going to get us promoted playing as we are (and we did scrape the playoff we would need major surgery on the team) and he will not change. He has reached his level.
Do I want him gone? That would be churlish and unfair because we are in a mini league of 4 clubs at the moment and if one has a bad run, who knows?
Do I think he is the long term solution? No. | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 13:57 - Dec 14 with 5615 views | MattFinish |
| Mid season assessment on 12:55 - Dec 14 by TripleNiemi |
Is Rustyball the official term for ponderous, sideways own half football? |
Yes that or an STD | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 14:05 - Dec 14 with 5602 views | MattFinish |
| Mid season assessment on 12:11 - Dec 14 by Heisenberg |
I’m enjoying it. Couldn’t give a shite about the Premier League and playing oil rich Middle Eastern states.
As for the football. It’s pedestrian against most teams who decide to get everyone behind the ball knowing we haven’t got a play maker who can unlock defences. That’s why we have lots of possession. We don’t have the players to do something special so an easy pass is the only option. Saying that Id rather watch that than lump it forward stuff.
Calling for RM to be sacked after 13 games unbeaten is ridiculous. |
I'm not calling for him to be sacked just saying his style of football is not going to get us up. As for whether you enjoy it or not that's a personal opinion. Do I enjoy seeing us in the attacking third then 5 or 6 passes later we have Smallbone passing it back to Bazunu then no
If RM would cut back on possession for possessions sake and play more direct sometimes then I think we could really kick on
As for if or when we get promoted, we'll get annihilated playing this style of football in the PL. Rustyball is massively reliant on keeping the ball and trying to wear the opposition down. Does anyone seriously think we will do that in the PL? | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 14:15 - Dec 14 with 5593 views | goalie66 |
After 12 games unbeaten most neutral observers would be thinking what a great run. Yet despite this most appear that the team and management are underachieving by playing possession based negative football. With one or two exceptions such as against Leeds and Cardiff we seem to think the goal is on the half way line and that going past this is akin to entering a minefield.
I will always support the Saints but I will not support the football they play with the players at their disposal. Like most fans I want to see passion excitement, thrills and above all goals. I want to be entertained and not sit watching souless insipid propaganda football. Even if we score the tension to keep a lead makes me tense and nervous as we are always a mistake away from conceding. Am I alone in this? | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 17:16 - Dec 14 with 5476 views | Southamptonfan |
At the end of the day, I think we should be in the top two or very close to it. We are so far away from the top two now, and that's disappointing. It will be a boring end to the season if play offs are the only thing we can get. The play off games themselves will be exciting, but playing games up to that point knowing the best we can get is third, will be quite boring.
As for the football, yes it's frustrating and last night was a snooze fest. Passing left and right, backwards and sideways is totally ineffective. It's agonisingly slow, when all we want is shots on goal and some exciting attacking play, to give us a chance of winning the game. It's just feels like we do a million passes before we finally get a shot in, which is why we don't score many goals. We haven't always played in that manner and have gone.more direct at times, like Leeds at home but then we go back to the slow, ponderous play. It does.mean we keep it tight, have a lot of possession,.don't concede many but it's such a struggle to win games (last minute winners, and by just a single goal). And winning games is what we want. I'd love to see more aggressive, attacking, quicker football. [Post edited 14 Dec 2023 17:22]
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| Mid season assessment on 18:26 - Dec 14 with 5434 views | 1885_SFC |
We're as dull as dishwater to watch - we really are. |  |
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| Mid season assessment on 18:40 - Dec 14 with 5423 views | grumpy |
We lack a big forward who is going to win the ball in the air to score or assist.
I think we made a big mistake in not letting Tall Paul have a crack at this division.
Hes scored 7 in 11 for Trabzonspor ,who knows how many assists,before he joined us he scored 85 in 134 for Genk and before that 74 in 181for Midtjylland in the Danish Superliga.
A Nigerian international.
I don't know if he would have been the answer I just wish we hadn't been in such a rush to loan him out.
Instead we bought a Injured Forward for millions. |  | | |
| Mid season assessment on 20:06 - Dec 14 with 5364 views | City_boy |
Lots of talk about the need for a quality centre forward, but I don't think that would make any difference at the moment. Regardless of who plays up front, they are working off scraps.
There is no service and most of the time we are p**ssing around with the ball on the half way line or deeper. With the exception of Alcaraz and S Armstrong on occasions, the midfield is so negative and lacks any creativity.
It really is tedious to watch. I just hope they read these pages to understand the current feeling of fans, because he is deluded.
I would rather we have. a real go to win the game and accept what happens. | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 20:14 - Dec 14 with 5354 views | PatfromPoole |
I was shocked at how quiet our away end was last night, but I think a lot of fans are just bored witless.
And yet we looked so good against Cardiff, which was pretty recent. | |
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| Mid season assessment on 20:24 - Dec 14 with 5342 views | grumpy |
| Mid season assessment on 20:06 - Dec 14 by City_boy |
Lots of talk about the need for a quality centre forward, but I don't think that would make any difference at the moment. Regardless of who plays up front, they are working off scraps.
There is no service and most of the time we are p**ssing around with the ball on the half way line or deeper. With the exception of Alcaraz and S Armstrong on occasions, the midfield is so negative and lacks any creativity.
It really is tedious to watch. I just hope they read these pages to understand the current feeling of fans, because he is deluded.
I would rather we have. a real go to win the game and accept what happens. |
I think the problem lies with the tactics. Pass the ball forward not sideways,don’t be afraid to take the man on,if you lose the ball you’ve tried.Its easy to pass backwards and sideways but it doesn’t score goals.We are in a good position give Martin credit for that but we probably have one of the best squads in this division and should and would be in top two positions if we had a good partner for A. Armstrong. | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 22:44 - Dec 14 with 5269 views | 1teeminants |
| Mid season assessment on 12:11 - Dec 14 by Heisenberg |
I’m enjoying it. Couldn’t give a shite about the Premier League and playing oil rich Middle Eastern states.
As for the football. It’s pedestrian against most teams who decide to get everyone behind the ball knowing we haven’t got a play maker who can unlock defences. That’s why we have lots of possession. We don’t have the players to do something special so an easy pass is the only option. Saying that Id rather watch that than lump it forward stuff.
Calling for RM to be sacked after 13 games unbeaten is ridiculous. |
100 per cent this |  |
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| Mid season assessment on 09:20 - Dec 15 with 5133 views | Ifonly |
| Mid season assessment on 12:11 - Dec 14 by Heisenberg |
I’m enjoying it. Couldn’t give a shite about the Premier League and playing oil rich Middle Eastern states.
As for the football. It’s pedestrian against most teams who decide to get everyone behind the ball knowing we haven’t got a play maker who can unlock defences. That’s why we have lots of possession. We don’t have the players to do something special so an easy pass is the only option. Saying that Id rather watch that than lump it forward stuff.
Calling for RM to be sacked after 13 games unbeaten is ridiculous. |
People compare Rustyball with "lumping it forward" as if those were the only options available. It's like saying you'd rather eat sprouts than dried vomit. There are so many other ways to play.
More importantly, good teams will mix it up and vary their tactics. We've done little bits of that and moved the ball quicker at times and looked much better for it. Then we revert back to plan A and look worse again. We need some variety because, apart from anything else, the opposition know exactly what we're going to do. RM's not going to change his beliefs, but at least let's have a plan B for when we need to take a bit more risk. | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 09:24 - Dec 15 with 5129 views | kernow |
Mid season assessment?
Better than I expected. | | | |
| Mid season assessment on 09:28 - Dec 15 with 5119 views | Portchy_Blue |
You're still shite. | | | |
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