| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? 10:25 - Aug 6 with 2221 views | SaintsNews |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 10:29 - Aug 6 with 2208 views | saints__fan__73 |
It's obvious what the situation is Nick. The club want him gone as we need the cash and he will walk away for nowt next Summer. That's why we already signed his replacement.
KWP would be happy to go if a London club like West Ham or Spurs wanted him but if this is not the case he won't be signing a deal with any other club we might agree a fee with as he knows that, if he sits out this season on the bench for us, he will be a free agent able to decide where he goes and have a huge signing bonus going into his bank account rather than a transfer fee going into the club's.
I assume they are at a standoff but KWP holds all the cards as long as he is happy to be a backup for one season, |  |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 10:39 - Aug 6 with 2162 views | SaintNick |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 10:29 - Aug 6 by saints__fan__73 |
It's obvious what the situation is Nick. The club want him gone as we need the cash and he will walk away for nowt next Summer. That's why we already signed his replacement.
KWP would be happy to go if a London club like West Ham or Spurs wanted him but if this is not the case he won't be signing a deal with any other club we might agree a fee with as he knows that, if he sits out this season on the bench for us, he will be a free agent able to decide where he goes and have a huge signing bonus going into his bank account rather than a transfer fee going into the club's.
I assume they are at a standoff but KWP holds all the cards as long as he is happy to be a backup for one season, |
Its not that obvious, last season there was interest and he was expected to go, but he trained and he played.
I would suggest that the club don't want him gone, ideally he would sign a new deal and there is the stand off.
If he is to leave to a big London club or anywhere else for that matter, then he would need to be fit, his new club would want him fit and ready to go.
He didnt simply sit on the bench last season when he didnt get sold, so why would he this
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 10:47 - Aug 6 with 2137 views | saintwizzler |
He’s round Adz Lallana’s mansion playing FIFA |  |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 11:18 - Aug 6 with 2067 views | TripleNiemi |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 10:47 - Aug 6 by saintwizzler |
He’s round Adz Lallana’s mansion playing FIFA |
Our illustrious strikers probably there too ‘resting up’….. |  |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 11:38 - Aug 6 with 2011 views | saints__fan__73 |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 10:39 - Aug 6 by SaintNick |
Its not that obvious, last season there was interest and he was expected to go, but he trained and he played.
I would suggest that the club don't want him gone, ideally he would sign a new deal and there is the stand off.
If he is to leave to a big London club or anywhere else for that matter, then he would need to be fit, his new club would want him fit and ready to go.
He didnt simply sit on the bench last season when he didnt get sold, so why would he this
This post has been edited by an administrator |
It's obvious to most fans Nick.
He had his chance to sign a new deal but didn't so that's why the club went and signed a starting RB to replace him. The new contract ship has long since sailed.
The club are not playing him as they want him gone. It's the same situation as Chelsea had with Gallagher.
It's a totally different situation to last as that was a player with 2 years on his contract left and he was a PL level player in tier 2 and would have gone if a PL club had made an offer the club felt worth accepting.
No club is going to be remotely bothered if a player they will be signing to a 3 or 4 year deal has played in some meaningless friendlies or not lol!
This is all about money. The club wants the £10m transfer fee, KWP want to the £10m signing bonus. I assume the latter will prevail as he's obviously happy to see out his final months with us and take the cash and there's nothing the club can do about this... [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 11:39]
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 11:39 - Aug 6 with 2008 views | Ifonly |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 10:39 - Aug 6 by SaintNick |
Its not that obvious, last season there was interest and he was expected to go, but he trained and he played.
I would suggest that the club don't want him gone, ideally he would sign a new deal and there is the stand off.
If he is to leave to a big London club or anywhere else for that matter, then he would need to be fit, his new club would want him fit and ready to go.
He didnt simply sit on the bench last season when he didnt get sold, so why would he this
This post has been edited by an administrator |
No, as 73 says, it's obvious.
- There wasn't a serious offer for him last year
- He was, and still is happy to see out his contract
- Saints were happy to keep him last year, but want to move him on now as he only as 1 year left
- Sugawara was signed as replacement
- Sugawara and Bree played in the friendlies as they are the ones planned to stay
- The club accepted WHU's offer, that's why KWP talked to them
- KWP rejected terms at WHU and they didn't want to offer more to him, so the deal fell apart
This fits all the facts, whereas you have no evidence for your claim that "the club don't want him gone". It doesn't matter what the club wants anyway because, as 73 says, KWP has all the cards.
In my view, another offer for KWP that he will accept is unlikely. So, he will be here next year and will probably play, either as RB, LB or right midfield. If he stays, it's bad news for the club because, although he makes us a bit stronger, there is now a £20m hole in the budget that we need for other positions. | | | |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:09 - Aug 6 with 1940 views | SaintNick |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 11:39 - Aug 6 by Ifonly |
No, as 73 says, it's obvious.
- There wasn't a serious offer for him last year
- He was, and still is happy to see out his contract
- Saints were happy to keep him last year, but want to move him on now as he only as 1 year left
- Sugawara was signed as replacement
- Sugawara and Bree played in the friendlies as they are the ones planned to stay
- The club accepted WHU's offer, that's why KWP talked to them
- KWP rejected terms at WHU and they didn't want to offer more to him, so the deal fell apart
This fits all the facts, whereas you have no evidence for your claim that "the club don't want him gone". It doesn't matter what the club wants anyway because, as 73 says, KWP has all the cards.
In my view, another offer for KWP that he will accept is unlikely. So, he will be here next year and will probably play, either as RB, LB or right midfield. If he stays, it's bad news for the club because, although he makes us a bit stronger, there is now a £20m hole in the budget that we need for other positions. |
You make some good points, but when you say "I have no evidence for the claim that the club don't want him gone".
I could say the same for virtually all of your points, you say they fit all the facts, but none of them are actual facts, all just speculation, so at best fits one narrative based on the speculation.
1. We don't know what offer or not came in last year
2. We dont know that he is happy to see his contract out or not, if he was why isnt he being played
3. Yes I agree Saints would need to move him on with a year left, but the evidence is they did that with Che last year in both windows.
4. Sugawara is indeed a replacement right back, but that doesn't mean that KWP couldnt be deployed elsewhere ie left back or either could play as a wing back.
5. Sugawara has obviously just joined, but Bree is likely to move before the end of the window.
6. No evidence that the club did accept the offer, if indeed there was one, most of the media stories said Saints have named their price at £20 million.
7. No evidence that KWP rejected the terms, usually before putting in serious bids, a club will check with a players agent about whether the player is interested and if so how much he would want.
Does KWP have all the cards ? If so why has he not yet gone ? We could yet take the viewpoint that we will hang on to him as we need all the experience we can in the Premier League and KWP who would be 28 at the end of the season would perhaps not have the same level of salary on offer as he would now.
It is in both parties interest to get this sorted, but what I would suspect is happening is that like Danny Ings 3 years ago, the player and the club may have an unwritten agreement where if the player does not get an offer he will accept then he will sign a new deal.
Like Ings KWP expected to get a biggish club such as Spurs or West Ham in for him with a decent wage offer, in the final week, like Ings he will be faced with a choice, Ings was to ditch going to a top club and take the £120k a week that Villa, back then a mid table side were able to offer him. Perhaps this is what will happen in the next couple of weeks with KWP, perhaps West Ham will up their offer a little bit or another club come in.
I do agree that we would like £20 million in the bank, but we would prefer to get that for Sulemana or Alcaraz plus £10 million for Tall Paul | |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:26 - Aug 6 with 1876 views | PatfromPoole |
I'll repeat what I said on another thread about KWP.
A good mate saw him at the public training day last Thursday at St. Mary's, and asked him if he was staying.
KWP replied "Ask the manager".
If we are taking a hardline stance on his refusal to sign a new contract, this seems rather at odds with our treatment of Che Adams.
I think he is simply too good a player to leave on the sidelines; with our lack of an attacking right-sided player, we could push Sugawara into a more attacking role, and play KWP at right-back.
If he leaves on a free next summer, so be it. He will have earned it if he helps keep us up. |  |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:32 - Aug 6 with 1825 views | Ifonly |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:09 - Aug 6 by SaintNick |
You make some good points, but when you say "I have no evidence for the claim that the club don't want him gone".
I could say the same for virtually all of your points, you say they fit all the facts, but none of them are actual facts, all just speculation, so at best fits one narrative based on the speculation.
1. We don't know what offer or not came in last year
2. We dont know that he is happy to see his contract out or not, if he was why isnt he being played
3. Yes I agree Saints would need to move him on with a year left, but the evidence is they did that with Che last year in both windows.
4. Sugawara is indeed a replacement right back, but that doesn't mean that KWP couldnt be deployed elsewhere ie left back or either could play as a wing back.
5. Sugawara has obviously just joined, but Bree is likely to move before the end of the window.
6. No evidence that the club did accept the offer, if indeed there was one, most of the media stories said Saints have named their price at £20 million.
7. No evidence that KWP rejected the terms, usually before putting in serious bids, a club will check with a players agent about whether the player is interested and if so how much he would want.
Does KWP have all the cards ? If so why has he not yet gone ? We could yet take the viewpoint that we will hang on to him as we need all the experience we can in the Premier League and KWP who would be 28 at the end of the season would perhaps not have the same level of salary on offer as he would now.
It is in both parties interest to get this sorted, but what I would suspect is happening is that like Danny Ings 3 years ago, the player and the club may have an unwritten agreement where if the player does not get an offer he will accept then he will sign a new deal.
Like Ings KWP expected to get a biggish club such as Spurs or West Ham in for him with a decent wage offer, in the final week, like Ings he will be faced with a choice, Ings was to ditch going to a top club and take the £120k a week that Villa, back then a mid table side were able to offer him. Perhaps this is what will happen in the next couple of weeks with KWP, perhaps West Ham will up their offer a little bit or another club come in.
I do agree that we would like £20 million in the bank, but we would prefer to get that for Sulemana or Alcaraz plus £10 million for Tall Paul |
Nick, I didn't claim that list was a list of facts. I said "This fits all the facts" i.e. it's the obvious explanation of the observed facts. The claim that "the club don't want him gone" is inconsistent with the facts, because:
- Sugawara was signed as replacement
- If Saints were going to reject WHU's offer, why did they let him speak to them? If WHU were not in the ball park then no discussion of terms would have been allowed. It would have been illegal.
- No evidence that KWP is injured, or that there is any other issue, so why was he not in Spain or in the friendlies? If the club wanted to keep him, he would be playing as he did last year in Turkey.
You say "Does KWP have all the cards ? If so why has he not yet gone ?". The answer is because he he doesn't want to go unless he gets the deal he wants. WHU refused to offer him that deal.
No one knows the future, but I would be very surprised if he signed a new deal with us. He will let his contract expire and then get the deal he wants with another club next year.
This isn't what the club hoped for. As we've seen we have very limited funds, so Sugawara wouldn't have been signed if they knew. | | | |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:35 - Aug 6 with 1820 views | Ifonly |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:26 - Aug 6 by PatfromPoole |
I'll repeat what I said on another thread about KWP.
A good mate saw him at the public training day last Thursday at St. Mary's, and asked him if he was staying.
KWP replied "Ask the manager".
If we are taking a hardline stance on his refusal to sign a new contract, this seems rather at odds with our treatment of Che Adams.
I think he is simply too good a player to leave on the sidelines; with our lack of an attacking right-sided player, we could push Sugawara into a more attacking role, and play KWP at right-back.
If he leaves on a free next summer, so be it. He will have earned it if he helps keep us up. |
I saw you post that comment before, but I don't think it means anything. He was unlikely to say "WHU didn't offer a £10m bonus and I think I can get more next year". | | | |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:53 - Aug 6 with 1794 views | SaintNick |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:35 - Aug 6 by Ifonly |
I saw you post that comment before, but I don't think it means anything. He was unlikely to say "WHU didn't offer a £10m bonus and I think I can get more next year". |
Exactly players will always try to make out they are the good guys in a transfer deal, back in 1993 Tim Flowers said all the right things and then when he went to Blackburn his first home game was against us, he ran around pre game taking the applause, but didn't come to the Saints fans and acknowledge them at all.
Players will do what is best for them, there is very few players these days who care about the clubs they play for that much | |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 13:59 - Aug 6 with 1695 views | saints__fan__73 |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 12:09 - Aug 6 by SaintNick |
You make some good points, but when you say "I have no evidence for the claim that the club don't want him gone".
I could say the same for virtually all of your points, you say they fit all the facts, but none of them are actual facts, all just speculation, so at best fits one narrative based on the speculation.
1. We don't know what offer or not came in last year
2. We dont know that he is happy to see his contract out or not, if he was why isnt he being played
3. Yes I agree Saints would need to move him on with a year left, but the evidence is they did that with Che last year in both windows.
4. Sugawara is indeed a replacement right back, but that doesn't mean that KWP couldnt be deployed elsewhere ie left back or either could play as a wing back.
5. Sugawara has obviously just joined, but Bree is likely to move before the end of the window.
6. No evidence that the club did accept the offer, if indeed there was one, most of the media stories said Saints have named their price at £20 million.
7. No evidence that KWP rejected the terms, usually before putting in serious bids, a club will check with a players agent about whether the player is interested and if so how much he would want.
Does KWP have all the cards ? If so why has he not yet gone ? We could yet take the viewpoint that we will hang on to him as we need all the experience we can in the Premier League and KWP who would be 28 at the end of the season would perhaps not have the same level of salary on offer as he would now.
It is in both parties interest to get this sorted, but what I would suspect is happening is that like Danny Ings 3 years ago, the player and the club may have an unwritten agreement where if the player does not get an offer he will accept then he will sign a new deal.
Like Ings KWP expected to get a biggish club such as Spurs or West Ham in for him with a decent wage offer, in the final week, like Ings he will be faced with a choice, Ings was to ditch going to a top club and take the £120k a week that Villa, back then a mid table side were able to offer him. Perhaps this is what will happen in the next couple of weeks with KWP, perhaps West Ham will up their offer a little bit or another club come in.
I do agree that we would like £20 million in the bank, but we would prefer to get that for Sulemana or Alcaraz plus £10 million for Tall Paul |
"Does KWP have all the cards ? If so why has he not yet gone ? We could yet take the viewpoint that we will hang on to him as we need all the experience we can in the Premier League and KWP who would be 28 at the end of the season would perhaps not have the same level of salary on offer as he would now."
What does that actually mean Nick? Him having all the cards is WHY he is still here. He wants his signing bonus next Summer. Maybe his salary will not be as high if he signs with a new club next season rather than this but the signing bonus will more than make up for this.
I would imagine what will happen is that he'll be ostracised, the new RB will turn out to be shite and then KWP will play for the rest of the season before leaving next Summer as a free agent. | |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 14:09 - Aug 6 with 1689 views | UTS1885 |
From what I hear he wants to see out contract, which Saints can ill afford to happen. Maybe we will see a one year loan with a set price. But of course the whole point in KWP lowering his contract is for a sweet signing on fee and good wages. Maybe like Che Adam’s there isn’t a club out there willing to do that. So he has to be realistic. [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 14:11]
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 16:01 - Aug 6 with 1599 views | SaintNick |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 13:59 - Aug 6 by saints__fan__73 |
"Does KWP have all the cards ? If so why has he not yet gone ? We could yet take the viewpoint that we will hang on to him as we need all the experience we can in the Premier League and KWP who would be 28 at the end of the season would perhaps not have the same level of salary on offer as he would now."
What does that actually mean Nick? Him having all the cards is WHY he is still here. He wants his signing bonus next Summer. Maybe his salary will not be as high if he signs with a new club next season rather than this but the signing bonus will more than make up for this.
I would imagine what will happen is that he'll be ostracised, the new RB will turn out to be shite and then KWP will play for the rest of the season before leaving next Summer as a free agent. |
I would not think that KWP will be on a better deal here than he would get at a bigger clubs such as West Ham or Spurs, from what I can see he is on the same 5 year contract he signed in the summer of 2024 .
This being the case I would not think hanging around for next years bonus would be better financially for him staying here for another year. Nor would the the fact that his current deal is based on him being a 23 year old player with only around 20 League games to his name and not the 150 or so he has now, he could probably get £10-20k a week extra with the right move.
If he waits another year and leaves on a free, then he might be able to negotiate a bigger salary etc as more clubs would be interested, but not as much as you would think.
If he was intending to run down his contract then why would he have not gone down the same road as Che Adams and put in a decent season to earn a better move.
One thing that would not be good for KWP would be to sit on the bench for a year, his earning capacity would drop drastically. | |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 16:49 - Aug 6 with 1538 views | saints__fan__73 |
A multi-million pound signing bonus will pretty much equate to a salary all on it's own. (i.e over a 3 year deal a £5m bonus is £30k per week before you actually consider the actual salary).
What the decent season of Adams to which you refer?
I'm sure KWP will have a good season here. We're too poor a squad not to end up using him.
The bottom line is the club are trying to move him on. That's why they aren't playing him. | |
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| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 19:20 - Aug 6 with 1398 views | InTimeAddedOn |
Reading all of the above posts, to me, the one thing that stands out is that it is about time this wretched Bosman Rule was kicked into touch. It was flawed from Day 1 as it was a one size fits all solution to a problem that had very very different issues that needed to be addressed at different levels of the game.
Bosman was a two bit player (and that’s being generous) with an over inflated sense of entitlement. If he was around today as a player he’d struggle to make it into a National League side so he wasn’t a player of any great significance. He basically threw is toys out of the pram when he couldn’t get the move he wanted and as a result we’ve ended up with the Bosman Rule, a one size fits all solution that quite simply isn’t fit for purpose at our level of the game.
For semi-pro players there is an argument for more flexibility especially the lower down the Pyramid you go but at PL / FL level the ruling applied the same way is ridiculous. It gives far too much power to the players and their resident leaches (sorry, agents), as SF 73 has said KWP holds all the cards. What a farcical situation replicated all over the country that has collectively cost professional Clubs that are basically big business £ millions & millions, if not billions in total over the years.
This stupid rule needs scrapping at this level and replacing with a system that is equally fair to the player and the Club.
London Saint might want to chip in on this as I know was around when changing the BR got discussed a few seasons back. I just think this rule needs looking at as I don’t believe it is fit for purpose in the modern game at elite level. |  | | |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 20:56 - Aug 6 with 1341 views | Ifonly |
| Where Is Kyle Walker-Peters ? on 19:20 - Aug 6 by InTimeAddedOn |
Reading all of the above posts, to me, the one thing that stands out is that it is about time this wretched Bosman Rule was kicked into touch. It was flawed from Day 1 as it was a one size fits all solution to a problem that had very very different issues that needed to be addressed at different levels of the game.
Bosman was a two bit player (and that’s being generous) with an over inflated sense of entitlement. If he was around today as a player he’d struggle to make it into a National League side so he wasn’t a player of any great significance. He basically threw is toys out of the pram when he couldn’t get the move he wanted and as a result we’ve ended up with the Bosman Rule, a one size fits all solution that quite simply isn’t fit for purpose at our level of the game.
For semi-pro players there is an argument for more flexibility especially the lower down the Pyramid you go but at PL / FL level the ruling applied the same way is ridiculous. It gives far too much power to the players and their resident leaches (sorry, agents), as SF 73 has said KWP holds all the cards. What a farcical situation replicated all over the country that has collectively cost professional Clubs that are basically big business £ millions & millions, if not billions in total over the years.
This stupid rule needs scrapping at this level and replacing with a system that is equally fair to the player and the Club.
London Saint might want to chip in on this as I know was around when changing the BR got discussed a few seasons back. I just think this rule needs looking at as I don’t believe it is fit for purpose in the modern game at elite level. |
The Bosman "rule" isn't actually a rule. There is nothing to abolish. Rather the Bosman ruling abolished other rules governing football as those rules were deemed illegal. Theoretically, brexit Britain could now re-introduce those rules in the UK, but they would probably be challenged in the UK courts in the same way that Bosman challenged them in the EU courts and probably the football authorities would lose again.
The way forward would theoretically be a voluntary agreement between all, say European clubs that they would compensate each other when players transferred, regardless of whether the player was still in contract or not. But the chances of that ever being agreed are low. | | | |
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