| BBC 2 now 21:00 - Apr 17 with 802 views | Occasional_Showers |
A good programme everyone should watch which illustrates perfectly why we must do everything we can to deal with China. |  |
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| BBC 2 now on 21:10 - Apr 17 with 786 views | DorsetIan |
Everything we can to protect Pangolins, do you mean?
Pangolin trade seems to extend to many places in Africa and large parts of South East asia.
Or are you only interested in the Chinese ones? |  |
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| BBC 2 now on 21:18 - Apr 17 with 774 views | Saintsforeverj |
I have to say that animal markets are disgusting. Live animals cramped up in cages for sale is horrible and totally wrong. China allowed this to happen, and therefore deserve criticism for this alone (along with any other country that allows it). If a virus was created from an animal market, then to me that is God stepping in to stop this horrendous cruelty. | |
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| BBC 2 now on 21:27 - Apr 17 with 754 views | grumpy |
Those Markets look horrendous. |  | | |
| BBC 2 now on 21:30 - Apr 17 with 748 views | DorsetIan |
| BBC 2 now on 21:18 - Apr 17 by Saintsforeverj |
I have to say that animal markets are disgusting. Live animals cramped up in cages for sale is horrible and totally wrong. China allowed this to happen, and therefore deserve criticism for this alone (along with any other country that allows it). If a virus was created from an animal market, then to me that is God stepping in to stop this horrendous cruelty. |
I don't know about your divine intervention point but I am all for better animal welfare worldwide.
We just have to be careful that those with an obviously anti-China agenda don't hijack the issue for their own sick purposes. | |
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| BBC 2 now on 21:37 - Apr 17 with 733 views | Saintsforeverj |
| BBC 2 now on 21:30 - Apr 17 by DorsetIan |
I don't know about your divine intervention point but I am all for better animal welfare worldwide.
We just have to be careful that those with an obviously anti-China agenda don't hijack the issue for their own sick purposes. |
Of course but the animal markets in China are widely publicised. As far as I am aware, they don't happen in France. Spain, UK, Italy, USA etc so if China allows this awful cruelty, China can be criticised for it can't they? [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 21:37]
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| BBC 2 now on 21:45 - Apr 17 with 712 views | grumpy |
| BBC 2 now on 21:37 - Apr 17 by Saintsforeverj |
Of course but the animal markets in China are widely publicised. As far as I am aware, they don't happen in France. Spain, UK, Italy, USA etc so if China allows this awful cruelty, China can be criticised for it can't they? [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 21:37]
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I started to look at a clip of one of those Markets,I couldn't finish it. | | | |
| BBC 2 now on 21:47 - Apr 17 with 707 views | Saintsforeverj |
| BBC 2 now on 21:45 - Apr 17 by grumpy |
I started to look at a clip of one of those Markets,I couldn't finish it. |
I know it's heartbreaking actually - those poor animals. Then Chinese people wandering around as if they are shopping in Asda. | |
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| BBC 2 now on 22:30 - Apr 17 with 657 views | DorsetIan |
| BBC 2 now on 21:37 - Apr 17 by Saintsforeverj |
Of course but the animal markets in China are widely publicised. As far as I am aware, they don't happen in France. Spain, UK, Italy, USA etc so if China allows this awful cruelty, China can be criticised for it can't they? [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 21:37]
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I don't mind China being criticised as long as it really is motivated by a genuine concern for animal welfare.
There are lots of other countries in the world that can also be singled out for this sort of thing. As I said, if we're talking about Pangolins then there are issues in Africa and large parts of South East Asia too. And if we're talking about animal welfare generally them you can talk about Spanish bullfighting or French foie gras too.
And you can tell when someone is genuinely interested because their focus is on the animals not in simply using it an excuse to generalise about 'the Chinese' or 'the backward Chinese'. | |
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| BBC 2 now on 22:55 - Apr 17 with 628 views | Saintsforeverj |
| BBC 2 now on 22:30 - Apr 17 by DorsetIan |
I don't mind China being criticised as long as it really is motivated by a genuine concern for animal welfare.
There are lots of other countries in the world that can also be singled out for this sort of thing. As I said, if we're talking about Pangolins then there are issues in Africa and large parts of South East Asia too. And if we're talking about animal welfare generally them you can talk about Spanish bullfighting or French foie gras too.
And you can tell when someone is genuinely interested because their focus is on the animals not in simply using it an excuse to generalise about 'the Chinese' or 'the backward Chinese'. |
I understand. I am against bull fighting in Spain too, or any cruelty. The problem is, "backward China" has some truth in it, as much as "Dark age Saudi Arabia" has some truth.
There are also many human rights abuses in China as well as eating dogs and cats. These facts result in the generalised label China is given. China needs to ban animal markets, stop the human rights abuses, stop eating dogs and then it might be seen in a better light? | |
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| BBC 2 now on 23:05 - Apr 17 with 611 views | Chesham_Saint |
| BBC 2 now on 21:45 - Apr 17 by grumpy |
I started to look at a clip of one of those Markets,I couldn't finish it. |
Hopefully you didn’t see that video of the Chinese looking fella stir-frying a live dog which was doing the rounds the other day. It was appalling. |  |
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| BBC 2 now on 23:13 - Apr 17 with 595 views | 1885_SFC |
Perhaps the world needs to turn away from China and give it the cold shoulder until they do something about their human rights record and their animal welfare reputation. They are fast becoming a pariah state. |  |
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| BBC 2 now on 23:25 - Apr 17 with 588 views | DorsetIan |
| BBC 2 now on 22:55 - Apr 17 by Saintsforeverj |
I understand. I am against bull fighting in Spain too, or any cruelty. The problem is, "backward China" has some truth in it, as much as "Dark age Saudi Arabia" has some truth.
There are also many human rights abuses in China as well as eating dogs and cats. These facts result in the generalised label China is given. China needs to ban animal markets, stop the human rights abuses, stop eating dogs and then it might be seen in a better light? |
I just think there's a big difference in labelling certain practices or certain individuals as 'backward' and in generalising that up into 'the backward Chinese'. It doesn't add anything to the debate about animal cruelty or human rights. It just turns it into a racial or nationalistic issue, and therefore takes the focus away from the issue itself. It also, of course, tars everyone in China with the same brush - including Chinese animal rights activists.
And that, of course, is exactly what some people are trying to do when they use language like that. They're not interested in animals, there are just interested in spreading discord. | |
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| BBC 2 now on 23:29 - Apr 17 with 580 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
When you say "deal with China", I now think of two things we can do;
1. Educate on animal welfare. And as a previous poster states, that goes across the globe.
2. Start manufacturing properly in our own countries. We all rely on China because it's cheap - so people will have to pay a bit more and maybe not get a new chavvy slab of glass phone EVERY year. |  |
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| BBC 2 now on 23:34 - Apr 17 with 576 views | DorsetIan |
| BBC 2 now on 23:13 - Apr 17 by 1885_SFC |
Perhaps the world needs to turn away from China and give it the cold shoulder until they do something about their human rights record and their animal welfare reputation. They are fast becoming a pariah state. |
Don't hold your breath. Now far too important in terms of the world economy. And while there's a lot of focus on China at the moment, they are a million years from becoming a 'pariah state'.
Cooperation, diplomacy and polite peer pressure from friendly partner nations is the only way to effect change in China. | |
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| BBC 2 now on 08:51 - Apr 18 with 494 views | kernow |
Animal welfare, human rights, intellectual property theft, environmental protection, global exploitation of natural resources, military adventurism, territorial expansion, nuclear proliferation, Tibet, Taiwan, Xinjiang, South China Sea, Africa, Latin America, the Pacific, Siberia, the Arctic, outer Space.
All reasons for China to be engaged with and not shunned. | | | |
| BBC 2 now on 09:17 - Apr 18 with 468 views | Occasional_Showers |
| BBC 2 now on 23:29 - Apr 17 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
When you say "deal with China", I now think of two things we can do;
1. Educate on animal welfare. And as a previous poster states, that goes across the globe.
2. Start manufacturing properly in our own countries. We all rely on China because it's cheap - so people will have to pay a bit more and maybe not get a new chavvy slab of glass phone EVERY year. |
International condemnation and encouraging revolution is what we should be doing. Being a one party state The Chinese are most fearful of that. From Tiananmen Square to the situation in Hong Kong, we should go on the attack and criticise their government. That’s the way to change their ways. If the state is threatened by the existence of wet markets and backward practices the state will act to preserve itself.
Softly softly isn't the way to deal with the Chinese state, you rile them by criticising the state and supporting the views of those people within China who want change. Divide and rule, divide and conquer. It’s what we the British do best. [Post edited 18 Apr 2020 9:22]
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| BBC 2 now on 11:14 - Apr 18 with 395 views | kernow |
| BBC 2 now on 09:17 - Apr 18 by Occasional_Showers |
International condemnation and encouraging revolution is what we should be doing. Being a one party state The Chinese are most fearful of that. From Tiananmen Square to the situation in Hong Kong, we should go on the attack and criticise their government. That’s the way to change their ways. If the state is threatened by the existence of wet markets and backward practices the state will act to preserve itself.
Softly softly isn't the way to deal with the Chinese state, you rile them by criticising the state and supporting the views of those people within China who want change. Divide and rule, divide and conquer. It’s what we the British do best. [Post edited 18 Apr 2020 9:22]
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"Divide and rule, divide and conquer. It's what we British do best."
Yep. We're doing it to ourselves right now.
Do you seriously think little England alone is going to influence the policies of the Chinese state? Laughable. | | | |
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