| No Longer A Big Six 21:52 - Jun 30 with 1459 views | SaintNick |
There is no longer a big six, Spurs and Arsenal have been cast adrift, its just a big four now |  |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 21:58 - Jun 30 with 1450 views | Saintsforeverj |
Well we know who will be the top 4 before the season even starts. Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool. Next will be Leicester, Everton, Spurs and Arsenal. It is so predictable. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 21:59]
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| No Longer A Big Six on 22:10 - Jun 30 with 1408 views | SaintNick |
| No Longer A Big Six on 21:58 - Jun 30 by Saintsforeverj |
Well we know who will be the top 4 before the season even starts. Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool. Next will be Leicester, Everton, Spurs and Arsenal. It is so predictable. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 21:59]
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yep and then the rest trying to hope that one of them mucks it up and they can squeeze in | |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 22:14 - Jun 30 with 1407 views | Saintsforeverj |
| No Longer A Big Six on 22:10 - Jun 30 by SaintNick |
yep and then the rest trying to hope that one of them mucks it up and they can squeeze in |
At the other end, we just hope to finish above Norwich, Brentford, Watford, Burnley, Palace, Brighton. Maybe Newcastle and Wolves (who might struggle a bit without Nuno but unlikely). | |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 22:44 - Jun 30 with 1380 views | dirk_doone |
Your 'big four' have been the top four ONCE in the entire 30-year history of the Premier League ( last season) lol. I haven't trawled back through the whole history of football, back to the nineteenth century, but it's quite possible that they have never been the top four before and may never be again.
5th placed Leicester finished just 1 point behind Chelsea last season, Spurs were 4th, 5 points ahead of Man United in 2019, 3rd, ahead of both Liverpool and Chelsea in 2018 and 2nd, ahead of Man City and Liverpool in 2017, while Leicester won the league in 2016, Arsenal were 2nd and Spurs 3rd etc etc.
There hasn't been a regular top four and it's likely there won't be next season either. The league is no more predictable now than it's ever been. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 23:07]
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| No Longer A Big Six on 06:42 - Jul 1 with 1249 views | SaintNick |
| No Longer A Big Six on 22:44 - Jun 30 by dirk_doone |
Your 'big four' have been the top four ONCE in the entire 30-year history of the Premier League ( last season) lol. I haven't trawled back through the whole history of football, back to the nineteenth century, but it's quite possible that they have never been the top four before and may never be again.
5th placed Leicester finished just 1 point behind Chelsea last season, Spurs were 4th, 5 points ahead of Man United in 2019, 3rd, ahead of both Liverpool and Chelsea in 2018 and 2nd, ahead of Man City and Liverpool in 2017, while Leicester won the league in 2016, Arsenal were 2nd and Spurs 3rd etc etc.
There hasn't been a regular top four and it's likely there won't be next season either. The league is no more predictable now than it's ever been. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 23:07]
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Im going on money here, forget the past, these four now have a lot more money than the other two, 5 years ago Leicester could win the league, they havent a hope now as they cant generate the funds to pay big big money for players, the Big Four can and will be able to do so year in year out | |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 06:47 - Jul 1 with 1246 views | Heisenberg |
In my lifetime I can recall Notts Forest, Derby, Ipswich, Villa and many others either winning or competing to win the old first division. We finished second. The point is this is highly unlikely to happen again. We know how it will pan out this and the season after. It’s the same with the FA Cup. It’s the same clubs every year. |  |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 06:54 - Jul 1 with 1244 views | BuenosSaint |
| No Longer A Big Six on 06:47 - Jul 1 by Heisenberg |
In my lifetime I can recall Notts Forest, Derby, Ipswich, Villa and many others either winning or competing to win the old first division. We finished second. The point is this is highly unlikely to happen again. We know how it will pan out this and the season after. It’s the same with the FA Cup. It’s the same clubs every year. |
Agree.
plus I know what Dirk is saying and have seen his detailed analysis of the top six before. But the trend is pretty clear now with random outliers.
All other teams are hoping to be one of those outliers now and that is not a lot of fun to play and hope for with the money gap widening year on year | |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 08:58 - Jul 1 with 1180 views | dirk_doone |
| No Longer A Big Six on 06:42 - Jul 1 by SaintNick |
Im going on money here, forget the past, these four now have a lot more money than the other two, 5 years ago Leicester could win the league, they havent a hope now as they cant generate the funds to pay big big money for players, the Big Four can and will be able to do so year in year out |
No they won't because, as history has shown us, the money and the success on the pitch shift around. Man City were a third tier team not that long ago. Nothing stays the same.
We have had as great a variety of teams winning the league in recent years as in any other era in history.
This defeatist attitude that everybody else just might as well give up because there is some invincible top four and it's all so unfair, is pathetic.
The chances of the top four being the same this season are slim to none, as they have only ever been the top four once in the entire history of football and probably never will be again.
If people could predict who would finish where in the Premier League, they would make a fortune but they can't because it is unpredictable. It is even more unpredictable and competitive now than the Football League was in the 70s and 80s when Liverpool won nearly every year.
Who could have predicted that Leicester would emerge as one of the top teams in the country? There have always been wealthy owners, like Jack Walker at Blackburn, Sheikh Mansour at Man City, Roman Abramovich at Chelsea and Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha at Leicester, ready to buy success for their teams and nobody knows which club will be picked up next by one. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 9:25]
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| No Longer A Big Six on 09:31 - Jul 1 with 1136 views | Heisenberg |
| No Longer A Big Six on 08:58 - Jul 1 by dirk_doone |
No they won't because, as history has shown us, the money and the success on the pitch shift around. Man City were a third tier team not that long ago. Nothing stays the same.
We have had as great a variety of teams winning the league in recent years as in any other era in history.
This defeatist attitude that everybody else just might as well give up because there is some invincible top four and it's all so unfair, is pathetic.
The chances of the top four being the same this season are slim to none, as they have only ever been the top four once in the entire history of football and probably never will be again.
If people could predict who would finish where in the Premier League, they would make a fortune but they can't because it is unpredictable. It is even more unpredictable and competitive now than the Football League was in the 70s and 80s when Liverpool won nearly every year.
Who could have predicted that Leicester would emerge as one of the top teams in the country? There have always been wealthy owners, like Jack Walker at Blackburn, Sheikh Mansour at Man City, Roman Abramovich at Chelsea and Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha at Leicester, ready to buy success for their teams and nobody knows which club will be picked up next by one. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 9:25]
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'Ready to buy success for their teams'. Says it all. Nothing to do with developing an academy or having a good scouting system or building a team. If you are loaded you have a chance. The rest are just fodder to make up the numbers. You carry on. Personally I think the Premier League is dull. | |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 09:35 - Jul 1 with 1130 views | dirk_doone |
| No Longer A Big Six on 09:31 - Jul 1 by Heisenberg |
'Ready to buy success for their teams'. Says it all. Nothing to do with developing an academy or having a good scouting system or building a team. If you are loaded you have a chance. The rest are just fodder to make up the numbers. You carry on. Personally I think the Premier League is dull. |
Rubbish. Chelsea and Man City have developed much better academies than Blackburn, for example, did. Jack Walker just bought the best players, like Shearer, from other clubs. He didn't develop young players like Phil Foden. In fact, the reason the England squad is so strong at the moment is because of the Premier League academies.
Thinking things are duller than they used to be is part and parcel of growing old and, let's face it, football forums like this are populated largely by old men. Young fans today would probably yawn at how boring listening to people droning on about how much more exciting things were in the past than they are today was.
Those who had their teen years in the 60s or the 70s or the 80s or the 90s or the noughties or now, or any other decade, think the football and music was most exciting in that decade because that's when they were young and enthusiastic.
I've got an uncle in his 90s who's totally convinced that everything was much better when he was young and a grandson who's equally convinced that football, music and everything else in life are far more exciting now than they have ever been before. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 10:04]
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| No Longer A Big Six on 13:48 - Jul 1 with 1001 views | dwayne_dibley |
The Top 4/5/6 also have the budget to provide referees with a nice little brown envelope to keep it business as usual |  |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 14:40 - Jul 1 with 961 views | 1ASIN12 |
| No Longer A Big Six on 06:42 - Jul 1 by SaintNick |
Im going on money here, forget the past, these four now have a lot more money than the other two, 5 years ago Leicester could win the league, they havent a hope now as they cant generate the funds to pay big big money for players, the Big Four can and will be able to do so year in year out |
5 years ago Leicester were 5000/1 to win the league - they are probably much shorter odds now (even allowing for the fact that the bookies don't offer those kinds of odds now).
Money has allways talked in football even more so since 1992 and only a select few clubs have won the premier league. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 14:42]
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| No Longer A Big Six on 14:55 - Jul 1 with 938 views | Saintsforeverj |
Let's not get silly about this! The top 4 of the PL will be Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool because they will all spend the most amount of money and they already have the best teams. Man U buying Sancho, Man City buying Grealish and Kane. Chelsea about to spend hundreds of millions, when most other clubs have little money due to Covid. It's possible but highly unlikely that one of the other big spenders, Everton, Leicester, Spurs, Arsenal might have a one off season and break into the top 4, with one of the usual top 4 having a bad year but that is about it.
I would bet now that at least 3 out of Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U (probably all 4) will be in the top 4 and will also bet that Burnley, Saints, Brentford, Norwich, Palace, Newcastle and Watford won't be in the top 4. Let's see if this easy prediction is wrong shall we! Leicester was a one off miracle. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 15:02]
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| No Longer A Big Six on 16:27 - Jul 1 with 892 views | dirk_doone |
| No Longer A Big Six on 14:55 - Jul 1 by Saintsforeverj |
Let's not get silly about this! The top 4 of the PL will be Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool because they will all spend the most amount of money and they already have the best teams. Man U buying Sancho, Man City buying Grealish and Kane. Chelsea about to spend hundreds of millions, when most other clubs have little money due to Covid. It's possible but highly unlikely that one of the other big spenders, Everton, Leicester, Spurs, Arsenal might have a one off season and break into the top 4, with one of the usual top 4 having a bad year but that is about it.
I would bet now that at least 3 out of Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U (probably all 4) will be in the top 4 and will also bet that Burnley, Saints, Brentford, Norwich, Palace, Newcastle and Watford won't be in the top 4. Let's see if this easy prediction is wrong shall we! Leicester was a one off miracle. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 15:02]
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You wrote, "we know who will be the top 4 before the season even starts. Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool" and Let's not get silly about this! The top 4 of the PL will be Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool."
So, tell me, how many times has that happened in the 133 years of league history?
If you already know who the top 4 will be, pile your money on. You could make a fortune at the bookies. Personally, I'm not so sure because the top 4 is different every year. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 16:44]
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| No Longer A Big Six on 16:44 - Jul 1 with 871 views | Bison |
| No Longer A Big Six on 16:27 - Jul 1 by dirk_doone |
You wrote, "we know who will be the top 4 before the season even starts. Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool" and Let's not get silly about this! The top 4 of the PL will be Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool."
So, tell me, how many times has that happened in the 133 years of league history?
If you already know who the top 4 will be, pile your money on. You could make a fortune at the bookies. Personally, I'm not so sure because the top 4 is different every year. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 16:44]
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The odds to win Prem are -
City 4/6
Chelsea 5/1
Liverpool 5/1
Man Utd 8/1
Next best is Spurs 40/1 the Leicester and Arsenal at 50/1. For toffs Everton are 100/1 and Saints 200/1. No more 5000-1 now you can get Norwich at 1000/1.
I think those odds tell you who the bookies think the Big 4 are.
If you want just odds on finishing top 4 then
City 1/16
Liverpool 1/4
Chelski 1/4
utd 2/7
You can get 4-1 on Spurs breaking into the top 4.
So if you put a £10 on the top 4 being in the top 4 then you would get £21.34 back including your stake so you wont make yur fortune you will just about double your money. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 16:58]
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| No Longer A Big Six on 17:50 - Jul 1 with 822 views | kingslandstand1 |
| No Longer A Big Six on 13:48 - Jul 1 by dwayne_dibley |
The Top 4/5/6 also have the budget to provide referees with a nice little brown envelope to keep it business as usual |
Direct transfers or Bitcoin nowadays ...................... |  | | |
| No Longer A Big Six on 18:05 - Jul 1 with 806 views | Saintsforeverj |
| No Longer A Big Six on 16:27 - Jul 1 by dirk_doone |
You wrote, "we know who will be the top 4 before the season even starts. Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool" and Let's not get silly about this! The top 4 of the PL will be Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool."
So, tell me, how many times has that happened in the 133 years of league history?
If you already know who the top 4 will be, pile your money on. You could make a fortune at the bookies. Personally, I'm not so sure because the top 4 is different every year. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 16:44]
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The top 4 is different every year because of one club changing perhaps but it's mostly the same clubs. In the past Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester would swap. But this year, Man City will be almost unstoppable If they buy Kane and. / or Grealish right?. Chelsea with a decent manager have millions to spend and will be in the top 4 barring a horrendous cock up. Man U talking of buying sancho and they are on the up. Liverpool will get top 4 again probably. Nothing is 100% certain but it's becoming that way in the PL. The bet is on if you like! I accept that it's possible one of the top 4 clubs might slip up for one season. But I bet you the top 4 next season will be made up of at least 3 of these 4 clubs - Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool. These are by miles, the favourites with the bookies for a reason. If you think the top 4 will be other clubs, put your bets on and you will be a millionaire come this time next year if it happened! Burnley, Saints, Norwich and Villa to finish top 4 will get you a return of a million on a 5 pound bet. If it wasn't so predictable the bookies wouldn't set those odds, otherwise they would lose millions. | |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 19:23 - Jul 1 with 771 views | dirk_doone |
| No Longer A Big Six on 18:05 - Jul 1 by Saintsforeverj |
The top 4 is different every year because of one club changing perhaps but it's mostly the same clubs. In the past Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester would swap. But this year, Man City will be almost unstoppable If they buy Kane and. / or Grealish right?. Chelsea with a decent manager have millions to spend and will be in the top 4 barring a horrendous cock up. Man U talking of buying sancho and they are on the up. Liverpool will get top 4 again probably. Nothing is 100% certain but it's becoming that way in the PL. The bet is on if you like! I accept that it's possible one of the top 4 clubs might slip up for one season. But I bet you the top 4 next season will be made up of at least 3 of these 4 clubs - Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool. These are by miles, the favourites with the bookies for a reason. If you think the top 4 will be other clubs, put your bets on and you will be a millionaire come this time next year if it happened! Burnley, Saints, Norwich and Villa to finish top 4 will get you a return of a million on a 5 pound bet. If it wasn't so predictable the bookies wouldn't set those odds, otherwise they would lose millions. |
"The top 4 is different every year because of one club changing perhaps"
And sometimes 2.
On that we can agree.
To a certain extent I've been playing devil's advocate because the league is never the foregone conclusion that some people like to say it is, and the teams at the top do change over time, although, since the 60s, Man United and Liverpool have usually been there. When I started watching football, the big 4 were Man United, Leeds, Arsenal and Liverpool.
As we saw in 2016, even though some clubs are bigger than others, anything is possible. | |
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| No Longer A Big Six on 19:51 - Jul 1 with 754 views | Saintsforeverj |
| No Longer A Big Six on 19:23 - Jul 1 by dirk_doone |
"The top 4 is different every year because of one club changing perhaps"
And sometimes 2.
On that we can agree.
To a certain extent I've been playing devil's advocate because the league is never the foregone conclusion that some people like to say it is, and the teams at the top do change over time, although, since the 60s, Man United and Liverpool have usually been there. When I started watching football, the big 4 were Man United, Leeds, Arsenal and Liverpool.
As we saw in 2016, even though some clubs are bigger than others, anything is possible. |
There is always the possibility of the odd one season miracle, like the Leicester title was, but actually since then, it's not much of a surprise they are up there, as they have ambitious owners and invest in their team. And put it another way, if one of the top 4 slip up, they usually come back the next year. What is becoming clear, is that previous title contenders, Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds just won't be anywhere near Manchester City (and probably the other teams mentioned) for an eternity. Everton could one of these seasons have a good year but it is only because they spend big. [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 19:52]
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