When a team goes through a bad run it needs its senior players to stand strong and lead by example and that is not happening at present.

Many supporters have taken the simplistic view of why Saints form has dipped of late citing that Schneiderlin & Clyne were replaced by players who were of a far lesser quality.

This is far from the truth, although the likes of Clasie, Soares & Romeu plus Juanmi have taken time to adapt to the rigours of the Premier League, the reality is that when we have needed our longer serving players to step up to the plate in the last few games that has not been the case.

The issues why we have been conceding goals and therefore dropping points are less about whether Schneiderlin would have anchored the midfield and more about individual error and lapses in concentration in the final third as was emphasised on Saturday where both goals should have been prevented.

But this is not a recent phenomenon, it has been happening all season right from the opening game at Newcastle, indeed its hard to think of many goals we have conceded that have not been down to individual error.

In our run of 5 Premier League games without a win we have conceded 8 goals, out of those 5 perhaps 6 could have and should have been defended better and prevented and that is the crux of the problem.

But it is not our new signings who are letting us down, put bluntly it is those who have been here several seasons.

When a team goes through a bad patch it needs its senior pros to lead by example, be a tower of strength and put in a 9/10 display, but it is not happening.

One problem is that we perhaps have too little Premier League experience in the squad at present, against Spurs Soares, Van Dijk are all in their first season in this division, then you have Mane, Tadic & Pelle all only in their second season.

But that left a spine of the side of Jose Fonte, Ryan Bertrand, Victor Wanyama & Steven Davis all with the experience required to stand up tall and be counted.

In fairness to Seven Davis he did what he always does and put in a consistent display, but so far this season the other three are shadows of their former selves at present.

The key figures here are Fonte and Wanyama, they are the core of the side, put it isn't happening for them at present and it needs to.

That is why I think Ronald Koeman is starting to lose patience a little, his senior men should be out there leading the team on the pitch for him, these two are the biggest characters, yet they are not doing it for him.

In the case of Fonte I think he is going through his worst period of form for Saints in a long time, all players do this, it is not a slur on him, he is finding the harder he tries the worse it gets, but he has the quality to play through it and he needs to.

Wanyama is a different case, the antics of August are bubbling under the surface and his behaviour back then means that the supporters will question his loyalty and commitment when he has games as he did on Saturday and indeed over the past few weeks.

It isn't hard to find Saints supporters who will claim that he is trying to engineer a January move, although displays like that n't get him too many admirers.

But Ronald Koeman has already indicated that he feels that some players have had their chance and now it might be tme for some of the fringe players to show their mettle, he does have a point, but the reality is we need a leader out tere on the pitch and if he isn't in the squad at the moment then perhaps we need to look in January.

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SaintJez added 09:44 - Dec 22 Goals change games. We are 5th in shots per game. We are 5th in shots on target per game. We are 2nd in shots taken inside the penalty area per game. 5th in shots taken from inside the 6 yard box per game - but we are joint 12th in goals scored!! it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's wrong.
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redwight added 09:54 - Dec 22 And the answer is running his contract down at Loftus Road. He's a local boy (perhaps that's the problem) and he scores goals.
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JDawg added 10:59 - Dec 22 You've hinted in the past that Koeman is being forced to panda to Wanyama, now is the time to end his free ride and bring in Reed for some of the games over Christmas. Partner him with Romeu against Arsenal and Classie against Norwich. Romeu and Classie can play against West Ham. Leave Victor on the bench see how he likes them apples. Of course he could then throw his toys out his pram and demand a move in January but at least we'll know the score.

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law101 added 11:52 - Dec 22 My team for Boxing day, got to find a solution to our goal scoring. VW and Pelle given another chance to recapture some form. Stek, Cedric, VVD, Fonte, Bertrand Davis, VW, Romelu Juanmi Mane Pelle
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SaintJez added 12:23 - Dec 22 I would play JWP. It feels like if we are going to score it's probably going to be a set piece and so I'd put him in there as his delivery is good - especially from the left and bending in. VW has to play as he's our best midfielder by some distance and so it's dropping one of the underperforming Claisie or the perennial 7 out of 10 Davis. I'm pretty easy on that. Could Claisie be a star on his day? I've heard it but I don't see it. I'm happy enough to give him more opportunity though so maybe he gets the shirt. Close call. Aside from that, I have no issue with the team RK picked against Spurs. We just need to start taking some chances. An Austin in the January sales would be much appreciated..

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IWOZTHERE added 12:59 - Dec 22 Your headline is correct but that's about it as far as your opening paragraphs are concerned. How can you dismiss the views of many supporters that the incoming players are not as good as those we've lost? You also imply in your third paragraph that they have now adapted. Sorry Nick but NONSENSE! Indeed, who would expect two players costing about 10m to be as good as two sold for 35m. This is not an attack on the board for their transfer policy or Clasie(who's been unlucky) or Soares (who I think has a great future).The fact is they are not as good, so it is a major contributory factor. Who are all these long-serving senior players? Forget Wanyama for obvious reasons....... Bertrand is a bit isolated to have much influence, that leaves Fonte and Davis. Even the exemplary Davis was running around like a headless chicken when we were chasing the game against Spurs. Jose's been brilliant for us, but when exposed he's as prone as anyone to make errors. They look as though they need counselling as much as the rest of the team so I hope RK's not as confused and flustered as he appears. This is negative (even for me),but I'll fall short of 'doom-mongering' cos I just think we're very fortunate this is happening before the window opens.

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saintmark1976 added 13:14 - Dec 22 The senior players have had their chance over the last few games and failed miserably. It's time some of them were read their fortune.Put simply they do not appear to have the stomach for the fight.Tine for a root and branch shake up in my opinion.Out would go Tadic,Wanyama,Pelle and Fonte.In would come Reed,Romelu,Long and Yoshida (yes Yoshida at centre back). If those dropped feel that they can get a better deal in the transfer window then let them go and use the money raised to get some players who want to compete for the shirt.

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halftimeorange added 13:30 - Dec 22 Looking at some of the suggestions above I believe we'd be in danger of putting out the shortest side in the PL. Lack of confidence and the habit of losing isn't easy to overcome. Who are the characters in our team? I was surprised when Jose was made captain as he's relatively quiet. But, there again, aren't they all? Too many nice guys. Or how about JWP. It was rumoured he bullied Shaw out of St Mary's and he is captain of the England U-21s. Perhaps he's the type who loves responsibility and would direct operations on the pitch, especially as he could take all the dead-ball kicks.

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SaintBrock added 13:43 - Dec 22 Your analysis is total moonstruck rubbish Nick, the majority have got it right we've sold the good ones and ended up with a load of donkeys
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SaintJez added 15:37 - Dec 22 A load of donkeys is very harsh SaintBrock! As a team, we still compete pretty much every game and have periods of dominance. We just don't make the most of those periods and that is hurting us if we make defensive errors. Everyone can see that a policy of year on year selling your best players is a difficult one as new signings are 50-50 on whether or not they'll settle at a new club. That's the risk for us. Fonte is taking a fair amount of flak at the moment but playing centre back is about building partnerships and he's trying to forge his 3rd one in 2 seasons and has to adapt between 2 and 3 at the back in alternate weeks. It's a bit of a mess and his form is being affected by it.. We need to keep picking our best XI - we all know pretty much what that looks like - and supplement it with a proper goalscorer to take the burden off Pelle. Now is not the time to panic..

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IWOZTHERE added 21:01 - Dec 22 We dominate in the wrong areas Jez. By the time Tadic has finished 'dominating' for example, and got his cross in, Pelle and co. are facing the wrong way with a crowded defence co-ordinated behind them.
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TimSaint added 01:48 - Dec 23 All too many times, the management and senior players have save that the team must learn from their mistakes, blah blah blah !! Heard it so often but even the likes of VW, JF, DT and even RK don't seem to be doing anything about it. We are stuck in a rut and something needs to happen to make a difference - perhaps a dodgy decision (for once) or an OG etc ? Hopefully this will come on Boxing Day because after one point from our last 15, we are certainly due a win !!

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harrydunn999 added 01:59 - Dec 23 Nail on the head. I like most fans can give Fonte a pass, we haven't signed a quality 3rd centre half since we came up,we are always buying one to replace one. I am mystified by the poor form of Caulker,thought he would be a good addition. I think a lot of Fonte's issues are what's happening infront of him and to a lesser degree behind him. Wanyama on the other hand does not get a pass. He has always been a player that tended to turn it on for the big games and coast the smaller teams. He plays well when the team plays well, when the team plays poorly he is one of the worst. For the centre of your team that is terrible. I always suspected schnedierlin helped Vic's game,because whenever spider missed a game Vic never stepped up. And his game has gone backwards this season. For some reason RK has chose not to bench him,everyone else has taken a turn. I love what Davis brings to the team in terms of effort and consistency, but he doesn't provide enough end product for the amount of games he plays and the position. I would like to see Davis play deeper with Romelu and JWP given 5 games in the number 10 role. He is always moved around the pitch and never given a run of games that position, you know the effort will be there and I think with some belief and faith in given that position he could well shine. What we also need is the dirtiest scrappiest goal of all time for mane, a dropped ball from Cech- anything just a goal, the amount of chances Mane is producing and provided- he schools be scoring most games. Fonte and his defence now play a game knowing one mistake and the game is lost,because our forwards can't score with a bag of rice on their backs and likewise the forwards know if they don't take a chance in the first 20 mins- the defence will collapse.

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law101 added 09:13 - Dec 23 Have to say there is no way on planet earth JWP or Romelu are no. 10's. Not goalscorers and not creative enough. Time to give Juanmi or Gaston an opportunity in that position.
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SaintJez added 10:53 - Dec 23 I do agree that we have a habit of dominating in the wrong areas but at the same time, you can't ignore that we don't put chances away when we do make them. When was the last time we scored a half chance?? Everyone else seems to scream one in every now and again but Saints? never. Against Stoke we had 16 shots at goal and hit the target once. ONCE!!! It's unacceptable. Schoolboy. But it's the story of our season and puts huge pressure on the defensive players and shines a light on any mistakes they make.

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harrydunn999 added 14:12 - Dec 23 But is Davis creative enough and score enough goals for a number 10 ? That's my point, keep playing same players in same positions and get same results. And people need to let Gaston go, even when he was playing he was a passenger- useless to any kind of strategy,not enough pace to play as a forward in the Premier league.
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