This was yet another game where when the teams came out you wondered what the hell the manager is doing and also yet another game where we were the victims of a poor VAR call.

When the team selection was announced before the game, it would be fair to say most Saints fans I was with before the game were perplexed, the first surprise was the inclusion of Joe Lumley, given how he was overlooked at the tail end of last season when Alex McCarthy was hauled from the stands before the game against Preston and jumped in above him, I would suspect that he was as surprised as the Saints fans that he should now be making his League debut and indeed his first ever game in the Premier League against Brighton.

This seemed a trifle harsh on McCarthy, yes he was at fault with two of the goals against Liverpool, but the first was down to his instructions from the manager and not his own error, he had followed the game plan.

Then there was the inclusion of Ryan Manning, he seems to be in and out of the team and even the squad on a week to week basis, he was joined by Yuri Sugawara, who has himself been on the bench for the last few weeks.

The rest of the line up was fairly predictable, although the subs bench was also a bit strange, Ronnie Edwards and Nathan Wood or Nathan Wood-Gordon as he now seems to be called, slotted in.

For most of the first half the game seemed to follow the usual pattern, we passed it around at the back and seemed to have stemmed the tide, then we give a goal away on the half hour mark.

There weren't many Saints supporters at half time who were hopeful of getting anything out of the game other than yet another defeat.

Brighton who were now sitting in 2nd place in the Premier League as it stood, would surely win with ease now.

But with 14 minutes of the second half the game swung when Flynn Downes fired through a crowd to equalise and it seemed to raise the spirits, the introduction of Ryan Fraser offered us an attacking option and he looked to be back to his best.

Saints seemed to have belief and then came the moment in the game that could have given us all three points, Tyler Dibling made a run and fed Fraser who crossed for Cameron Archer to fire the ball home, as we all know Archer was onside, Adam Armstrong wasn't but appeared not to have influenced the play, but this was Saints and VAR and again as we all know the goal was disallowed.

Perhaps this stirred us on a little as we kept our shape and in fairness Russell Martin made the right substitutions that meant that we both kept it tight and also posed an attacking threat.

The referee added a lot on for added time, 10 minutes was justified, but he played 13, but we got through.

So an unlikely point and one we can build on, Brighton are a good side as was evidenced by their brief sojourn in second place this weekend, we have something to build on now, it is still a tough ask, but we are just 4 points off safety, in truth we should already have those points in the bag, we have thrown more than that away, so if we do cut out the errors then there is hope.

This was a game where the fringe players such as Ryan Manning, Joe Aribo, Ben Brereton Dias & Even Sulemana all played roles, Jack Stephens had to concentrate on defending and not trying to play a hybrid role going forward and his game was all the better for it.

Perhaps playing the better teams suits us, we have to sit deeper and defend and then go on the break, the last two games has seen us battle a very good Liverpool side and almost get something out of it, indeed we should have but for our own errors and VAR and then this game.

Things are of course far from right, but a point is a point and I would rather take the positives from this game, than look at the negatives.

A decent team performance for one where we dug in and showed that we still have team spirit, the season still has a long way to go and you never know this point might be vital come May.

All Photos Via Reuters

davidargyll added 20:56 - Dec 1 Fair result on the balance of play, as luck was with us in H1 (had there been better finishing by Brighton, we’d have been three down) but against us in H2 (VAR decision) But what really concerns me is our discipline, or lack of. Because back in the day we used to have a reputation of being a nice family club with a disciplinary record to match. But now… At 44, yes 44, YELLOW CARDS we have the second-highest number in the PL with only Chelsea having (three) more! Plus two red cards (the highest). Ok, so last season, we had the equal highest number of cards in the Championship, and got promoted. But this season i think the lack of discipline is much more because: 1. The players are struggling to cope with the speed of their opposite numbers; 2. They are making up for their lack of skill by fouling; 3. Poor coaching has lead to poor positioning; 4. There is a real lack of leadership on the pitch. Some will say this shows passion! I think it shows that the manager is really not in control. OK, so yellow cards are not in themselves a disaster, but last season, the team with the highest number was Chelsea(!), followed closely by Sheffield United, and we all know what happened to them…

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YosemiteSaint added 21:04 - Dec 1 I have thoughts on the VAR controversy, and I'm confident I'm right. Archer was level with the last defender, so it ought to have been a simple call: a goal. The linesperson didn't see it that way and raised their flag. Given how close the play was, I can concede that decision, and feel that VAR should have simply confirmed it because they couldn't come up with any incontrovertible evidence to contradict it. In American sports (such as baseball and gridiron football), review can be as simple as that; if video assisted replay can't produce anything that definitively overturns the ruling on the field, it stands. But then VAR went and muddied the waters, taking five minutes to fiddle around with the video, and then claiming that "the referee's call of no goal was checked and confirmed by the VAR as Armstrong was in an offside position and deemed to be impacting [Brighton goalkeeper Bart] Verbruggen's ability to play the ball." How on earth can one judge whether a player being offside impacts another player's capacity to play the ball, and why should that matter?! Does VAR have a direct line into the goalie's head? Do calls always favor the keeper? No—we want goals. In baseball, the tie goes to the runner, and this should have sufficed in our instance. These kinds of messes make on-field refereeing redundant. I'm sure the refs were as butt hurt as we were by VAR's infinite complication of the call. I appeal to those who know the rules of the game better than I do to set me straight. In the meantime, all this seems a no-brainer to me. Why play the game at all if we're just going to reduce it to eternities of fussing over videos of it, FFS?!

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IanRC added 21:44 - Dec 1 First off, had Arsenal or Liverpool scored that goal it would have stood, no question. Better performance in some respects but Flynn Downes was lucky to stay on the pitch. Disagree about McCarthy irrespective of instructions he should have used his commen sense for the first and his positioning for the second was awful. Personally therefore I was relieved to see Lumley given his chance. I was surprised Sugawara lost Mitoma for their goal but otherwise thought he played well. Also thought Sulemana was unlucky with ball that hit his heels as otherwise he was away. So Chelsea next up, which will be a good test, particularly with the suspensions.

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AmericanSaint added 22:51 - Dec 1 So, I will only say this about the VAR - The call on the field was for off-side of the goal scorer and it was tight so I expected VAR to look at it. So once Archer was proven to be onside, then it is over. The REF did not say he interfered with the goal, so why was VAR re-referring the play and adding to it. That is where the VAR refs are failing and they failed miserably at this one. My biggest concern with VAR is that these refs in the VAR booth are being subjective on many call and there are serious consequences to their opinions. We should have 4 more points and in the thick of the battle, not adrift but because of VAR refs and their opinions we dont. These calls get teams relegated in the end and for us, that will mean losing dibbling, KWP, and others, which will have a great long term impact on our club. But PMGOL doesnt care as all they do is give lame excuses to cover that arse and there is no discipline against the so-called refs in the VAR booth. The PL needs to start handing out some serious fines for these refs.. Rant over.

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AmericanSaint added 22:51 - Dec 1 So, I will only say this about the VAR - The call on the field was for off-side of the goal scorer and it was tight so I expected VAR to look at it. So once Archer was proven to be onside, then it is over. The REF did not say he interfered with the goal, so why was VAR re-referring the play and adding to it. That is where the VAR refs are failing and they failed miserably at this one. My biggest concern with VAR is that these refs in the VAR booth are being subjective on many call and there are serious consequences to their opinions. We should have 4 more points and in the thick of the battle, not adrift but because of VAR refs and their opinions we dont. These calls get teams relegated in the end and for us, that will mean losing dibbling, KWP, and others, which will have a great long term impact on our club. But PMGOL doesnt care as all they do is give lame excuses to cover that arse and there is no discipline against the so-called refs in the VAR booth. The PL needs to start handing out some serious fines for these refs.. Rant over.

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YosemiteSaint added 23:28 - Dec 1 Spot on, American Saint!
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Jesus_02 added 00:56 - Dec 2 "first was down to his instructions from the manager and not his own error, he had followed the game plan." I find it perplexing that some believe that RM has asked McCarthy to roll the ball out to a player that has 3 around him. Yes he wants to play out from the back but there were other options and it was an awful decision. Keeper makes two unforced errors someone has to take responsibility. I though Lumley did OK. The disallowed goal followed by Skys suggestion that Downes shouldn't have been on the pitch is just par for the course now. Same as penalties against Liverpool not being given and them suggesting Lallana's yellow should have been a red. Survival is looking like mission impossible , but everyone needs to stick together now , some of our players are not good enough but they are OUR players. Together we stand divided we fall. UTS and RMs revolution . What a goal against Liverpool and what a goals that was disallowed against Brighton More to come hopefully

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landsdownsaint added 07:26 - Dec 2 We started playing the ball quicker 2nd half especially Aribo . I’m fed up hearing the teams not good enough to stay up , it’s the managers tactics that’s taking us down! It’s so simple as in get the ball up to Archer quicker
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City_boy added 07:49 - Dec 2 I thought Lumley did ok. I don't think the decision to drop McCarthy was harsh. He had an absolute horror in his last game. However, Martin's support and praise for McCarthy after Liverpool game and then drop him was strange ?
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HythePeer added 09:40 - Dec 2 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ceqxqnv51v2o
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SanMarco added 10:39 - Dec 2 The key for me on the disallowed goal is that Archer was given offside and as a line decision it was nothing to do with clear and obvious. He was onside so then you give the goal UNLESS the ref's overlooking of Armstrong being 'offside' is a clear and obvious error - which it obviously wasn't (they would have done it in 10 seconds if it was). If the ref had given Armstrong offside then fair enough - dispute the decision but it is clear cut. But he didn't so why is VAR re-refereeing it - just like they did at Wolves. There are too many grey areas in rules/interpretations and VAR is simply worsening the situation and not helping but hindering. Interfering with play is an interpretation. Once you allow VAR 5 mins to 'interpret' then all is lost and inconsistencies reign. Arsenal's second goal against us??? That guy was 'interfering' less than Armstrong???? Those that quote Cloughy's nonsense about what are they doing on the pitch are talking rubbish - is the corner taker offside when the ball is headed in?, - any player crossing from the goal-line is 'offside' when the ball is put in... The disgrace is that VAR hides behind its regulations to avoid blame when defending itself but here it totally ignored its regulations in order to find a way to disallow a perfectly good goal. It ISN'T bias - it is a system that isn't working properly. Yes - without VAR the linesman's error would have disallowed the goal but that cannot be used to excuse VAR - which is supposed to be ironing out those errors not committing more of its own. VAR (if it stays at all) needs to be cut back to REAL clear and obvious + line decisions. That said we were a bit lucky that Downes didn't get a second yellow. We need at least three points from these next three. I doubt we will get them from Chelsea but at least this performance was BETTER!! PS I am not a great fan of Martin but I thought his put down of the sh1t managing Brighton was spot on!!

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JoeEgg added 10:56 - Dec 2 The incredible fact remains that despite our feeble points total from 13 matches, there are still 5 other teams struggling, in poor form and well within catching range. In the first half the players continued along the Martin suicidal tippy tappy path making us look easy pickings for a heavy defeat. In the second half tactics changed somewhat and we made progress forward much quicker. Sa

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JoeEgg added 10:56 - Dec 2 The incredible fact remains that despite our feeble points total from 13 matches, there are still 5 other teams struggling, in poor form and well within catching range. In the first half the players continued along the Martin suicidal tippy tappy path making us look easy pickings for a heavy defeat. In the second half tactics changed somewhat and we made progress forward much quicker. Sa

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JoeEgg added 11:08 - Dec 2 The incredible fact remains that despite our feeble points total from 13 matches, there are still 5 other teams struggling, in poor form and well within catching range. In the first half the players continued along the Martin suicidal tippy tappy path making us look easy pickings for a heavy defeat. In the second half tactics changed somewhat and we made progress forward much quicker. Sadly I expect the manager to return to the possession football just as soon as the opportunity occurs. My second grouse is that Martin still hasn't made use of some potentially effective players who dont naturally suit his style of play. Martin likes to praise them all, apply ridiculous and childish nicknames , and the revert back to his few favourites at the expense of some potentially better talent confined to the bench or maybe not even that close! With a handful of football managers and commentators singing his praise, and a point here and a point there, Martin has no need to change. A convincing defeat against Chelsea will surprise nobody with so many absent players to offer in his defence. Like it or not, we are stuck with Martin, and I fear that the opportuniy to replace him may well have passed.

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underweststand added 14:31 - Dec 2 The " Armstrong incident " has generated reactions from almost every Prem. side - and a few more - but AA was not involved with goal-scoring incident, and so VAR seems to have "created " a situation in their own mind with " obstructing the keepers view ". Ironically, the Brighton keeper was quoted afterwards as saying - that he didn't know why the 2-1 goal was disallowed - and thought that Brighton had "got lucky" on the day. The " Downes incident " ...already on a yellow card he was adjudged to have fouled the player who stopped in front of him and then fell to the ground. That didn't deserve a second yellow. IF ..two fouls meant two yellows ..Brighton would have lost at least two players in the first half from their "over -zealous tackling." They committed 20 fouls in the game but had just ONE card ..until the last 2 minutes. Although we've have had some bad calls so far this season, I don't believe that all refs are corrupt, but is there a subconscious element of .." they lose every game and will certainly go down - and so the points are more value to the other side?. As for the game ...we were rubbish in the first 45, and were saved by the posts on a couple of occasions, but the second half performance was at least worth the one point .

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