| Monk - Coward 17:02 - Jan 17 with 39528 views | _ |
Sat down the whole game hiding and this defending without the ball bollocks needs to stop and now. |  |
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| Monk - Coward on 17:25 - Jan 21 with 1287 views | goontheswans |
| Monk - Coward on 15:14 - Jan 21 by londonlisa2001 |
I genuinely don't understand how you can bring yourself to travel up and down the country following a team that is led by someone that you dislike so much.
I wouldn't waste my time to be honest.
Just as an aside. The result against Chelsea in the COC was fantastic, but let's not start pretending that when we played them at Stamford Bridge in the 1st leg that we were anything other than dominated. It was like a scene from the Alamo at times. We were just able to hold out through a mix of resilience and luck. And yes, I was there and celebrated as wildly as anyone else, but come on.
The difference between that and Saturday was the first goal. There are often games where we hold out and hold out, but once one goes in the 'better' team are able to relax, and play with the freedom that allows them to look at a different level. An example of the was the first Man City game in the PL where we held out for 60 minutes, once they scored once we were blown away. The problem on Saturday was that they scored in the first minute, so the weight of expectation was instantly lifted and they could relax and play with freedom. That doubled once the second went in - you could see it happen.
And he wasn't sacked for lacking ambition - I think you know that. |
It's an insult to those two performances to suggest they were anything like sat. First 10 minutes against Chelsea we could of conceded a couple but after that we were solid. As for man city we passed them off the park first half. Jdg was outstanding. So much so they changed tactics to combat us by bringing Garcia as an extra man in midfield. I'm sure some people watched us with their eyes closed under Laudrup. |  | | |
| Monk - Coward on 17:31 - Jan 21 with 1271 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Monk - Coward on 17:25 - Jan 21 by goontheswans |
It's an insult to those two performances to suggest they were anything like sat. First 10 minutes against Chelsea we could of conceded a couple but after that we were solid. As for man city we passed them off the park first half. Jdg was outstanding. So much so they changed tactics to combat us by bringing Garcia as an extra man in midfield. I'm sure some people watched us with their eyes closed under Laudrup. |
I didn't even remotely suggest they were like Saturday.
They are separate issues. I said that the performance away at Chelsea was not as some seem to remember it. And it was not just 'dodgy for the first 10 mins' and then all plain sailing after that. It was excellent, as I have said, but at times it was dogged defending and a little luck not the sparkling attacking football that Spratty keeps on talking about.
And the point re Saturday is that when one of these big teams get their noses in front, the entire game changes - you see it over and over again. You see it the other way round with us as well - Tranmere being a recent example, and the COC Final s well for that matter. As soon as you get in front and relax, the better team always look in a different class to how they looked until scoring.
You're right though - people did watch us with their eyes closed under Laudrup and under Rodgers since no one seemed to ever see us play anything other than brilliantly. We played really well some games, average some games, awful some games. People are forgetting that. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 17:36 - Jan 21 with 1253 views | waynekerr55 |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:36 - Jan 21 by Catullus |
And that is a very good and valid point. As was pointed out by match commentators, at the end of the group stages, we had played ten games more than most other Premier teams.
Given that we did not have a large squad, fatigue was bound to cause issues. it's still a surprise to me that people can't grasp that. |
Very true. Mr bucket and sponge didn't help his cause by flogging the players to death in pre season either |  |
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| Monk - Coward on 17:39 - Jan 21 with 1242 views | monmouth |
| Monk - Coward on 17:25 - Jan 21 by goontheswans |
It's an insult to those two performances to suggest they were anything like sat. First 10 minutes against Chelsea we could of conceded a couple but after that we were solid. As for man city we passed them off the park first half. Jdg was outstanding. So much so they changed tactics to combat us by bringing Garcia as an extra man in midfield. I'm sure some people watched us with their eyes closed under Laudrup. |
She's talking about the Man City away game under Rodgers. If they'd scored in the first minute that night we would probably have conceded 20. |  |
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| Monk - Coward on 17:42 - Jan 21 with 1229 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Monk - Coward on 17:39 - Jan 21 by monmouth |
She's talking about the Man City away game under Rodgers. If they'd scored in the first minute that night we would probably have conceded 20. |
Yes - you'd think the clue was when I described as the first PL match. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:40 - Jan 21 with 1151 views | Catullus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:02 - Jan 21 by C_jack |
Not with a sports science set up worth any salt. How many times do you think Chelsea/ Man City actually train during the season? Very little, in comparison to other pl teams. 'cumilative fatigue' as you call it l, is (should be) balanced or offset by the of removal of high intensity training, to aid recovery.
Players themselves love it. A direct quote from Ash : "players love to play more, and train less"
So that's travel and fatigue theory quashed, anything else? |
It's not quashed anything really, has it? After all, top managers have constantly complained about the number of games and the effects on their teams.
Of course they will do less fitness training, little or none probably. But they will still train. And games close together will still cause tiredness and contribute to injuries. We had a lot of soft tissue injuries back then. The theory seemed to be we were getting worked to death in training.
In fact, the champions league teams are generally big enough to have the best sports science and squads big enough to cope with the extra games.
Us smaller teams do not have big enough squads At least not a big enough squad of enough quality. And quite possibly, we have the sports science in place now, but did we then? I don't know.
And as sports science advice, like most other medical advice keeps changing, who really knows.
I read recently, a theory that stretching (as part of your warm up) before playing has no positive effect and doesn't reduce muscle pulls and strains. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:58 - Jan 21 with 1118 views | waynekerr55 |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:40 - Jan 21 by Catullus |
It's not quashed anything really, has it? After all, top managers have constantly complained about the number of games and the effects on their teams.
Of course they will do less fitness training, little or none probably. But they will still train. And games close together will still cause tiredness and contribute to injuries. We had a lot of soft tissue injuries back then. The theory seemed to be we were getting worked to death in training.
In fact, the champions league teams are generally big enough to have the best sports science and squads big enough to cope with the extra games.
Us smaller teams do not have big enough squads At least not a big enough squad of enough quality. And quite possibly, we have the sports science in place now, but did we then? I don't know.
And as sports science advice, like most other medical advice keeps changing, who really knows.
I read recently, a theory that stretching (as part of your warm up) before playing has no positive effect and doesn't reduce muscle pulls and strains. |
I can tell you categorically based upon Garcia's choice of activities in pre season (and that of the youth team having the players running up and down sand dunes) our sports science/strength and conditioning team certainly wasn't in place, or they were just like Churchill nodding dogs going along with what they were told to do.
The 'theory' of static stretching isn't a new phenomenon, there has never been conclusive proof that static stretching in a warm up helps reduce strains. The best person to follow is Jan Ekstrand on Twitter - he does 10 year studies on champions league teams and is UEFA's top dog when it comes to injury research. [Post edited 21 Jan 2015 20:01]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 20:13 - Jan 21 with 1099 views | C_jack |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:40 - Jan 21 by Catullus |
It's not quashed anything really, has it? After all, top managers have constantly complained about the number of games and the effects on their teams.
Of course they will do less fitness training, little or none probably. But they will still train. And games close together will still cause tiredness and contribute to injuries. We had a lot of soft tissue injuries back then. The theory seemed to be we were getting worked to death in training.
In fact, the champions league teams are generally big enough to have the best sports science and squads big enough to cope with the extra games.
Us smaller teams do not have big enough squads At least not a big enough squad of enough quality. And quite possibly, we have the sports science in place now, but did we then? I don't know.
And as sports science advice, like most other medical advice keeps changing, who really knows.
I read recently, a theory that stretching (as part of your warm up) before playing has no positive effect and doesn't reduce muscle pulls and strains. |
I've never heard of a manager come out and complain about playing in Europe. I've read about the number of games in the competition, which is a fair criticism, but not being in the competition itself. The usual moans come around xmas/easter time when the space between fixtures is ridiculous, in all fairness.
Others have the soft tissue argument patented. I've read complaints that they were being worked to death in training, alongside others that they weren't being worked enough ( ! )
The quality of squad is irrelevant, we had a squad of 30 players last year, you can't have options to rotate and then complain that they're not good enough, to allow doing so.
There's an illusion that teams playing in Europe (specifically Europa League) always suffer the season after, purely because of their involvement in the competition. Which IMO, is a fallacy, because it was always going to be hard to match/better a successful campaign, regardless. Taking Newcastle for example when they finished 5th, people cited that the EL had affected their season and position in the table, but where they ever going to top 5th anyway? highly unlikely.
The Europa League did not affect Swansea City, or the ultimate fate of Michael Laudrup, in the slightest. |  |
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| Monk - Coward on 19:44 - Jan 22 with 960 views | MoscowJack |
Haven't had much free time since the Chelsea game or, to be honest, the inclination to go online and read loads of negative crap. The negative crap is/was mainly justified as were were truly pants, but I wanted to avoid it.
After the day I've had today, the Chelsea game now seems like a bit of light relief. It's all about perspective, I suppose.
I watched the game in my local bar in Moscow with a really nice guy (expat) who works for Abramovich. As usual, I was playing our chances down, as I always do. I can't even think about threatening to beat a team with Chelsea's talent....and then when we do, I can enjoy it even more.
Within one minute, I was thinking of Sunderland's 8-0 defeat. Within 15 minutes, I was wishing I hadn't thought of Sunderland's 8-0 defeat. I really thought that's what we were going to see and, in all reality, it could have been.
I'm not one who thought Monk was the best choice for the job but backed him...and still do....but I was hoping he was either going to (1) make changes before half time or at least (2) make changes AT half time. A brave and confident coach/manager would have done one or the other. Maybe his lack of experience let him down there as it was blatantly obvious that we were abysmal in the centre of the park. With no "controlled Ki", "terrier-like Leon" or even "rampant JJS", we just seemed holier than the bible. I was cringing.
I was hoping Chelsea took their foot off the gas in the 2nd half and they did. I was hoping so much that I asked the two Chelsea fans next to me in the hope they wouldn't say "nah, they'll go for 10" as I think they COULD have scored 10.
Thankfully it wasn't more than 5. That was more luck than judgement though.
Monk got it all wrong on Saturday. Maybe, just maybe, that's why he sat down as he knew that it was his fault. He knew he'd blown it. Still, to me, it's not what a manager does. He should be kicking them up their arses or geeing them on....or SOMETHING. Maybe talk to them....instruct them.....scream at them.....or massive their fragile egos....I don't know!
As I sat with these Chelsea-supporting friends, I found myself saying things like "this is his debut in the PL" or "he's only 12 years old", "first game this season for him" or eventually "he's never kicked a ball before today" etc which summed up our lack of experience or resources on the pitch. Compare that to Chelsea's !!! As others have said before, we had to be at the top of our game and Chelsea well off form, but it was the opposite. What I can't explain or understand though is the lack of effort from some in central roles to plug the HUGE gaps that were appearing all around little Tom.
The ONLY up-side for me was the crowd's singing. I couldn't see fans leaving but we all commented on how many other team's fans would be singing their manager's name and other songs so loudly. I was proud of that....very proud. It came across so clearly on the screens and showed that we are, in general, a bit different to other fans.
This game's in the past now and we need a good performance and the win to go with it against Blackburn. I went to the Villa game and people around me were (rightly) saying, after the game, that we lost to Spurs (but played well) but beat Hull and Villa (playing badly). I think we need a good performance (to build belief) and a win to build confidence.
Many teams will get mullered by Chelsea this season....home and away.......especially when they're missing key players like we did.
I hope GM learns from this - I think he will - but I hope that we start going back (again!!!) to the basics that got us where we are now. They are BASICALLY keeping/controlling the ball better than the opposition and working harder (pressing) off the ball. We are getting worse at both, in my opinion. Monk, of all people, should see this.
Pity this good thread was spoilt by the bitching....it could have been a good debate. | |
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| Monk - Coward on 20:40 - Jan 22 with 900 views | twintownjack |
nice to have dropped into a nice chat, just nice |  | | |
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