| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... 11:50 - Mar 29 with 7158 views | Lohengrin |
Listening to a radio snippet of Theresa May outlining her plan for more devolved powers post-Brexit has left me feeling slightly torn. As somebody who has always believed in the principle of subsidiarity I nonetheless feel uncomfortable with the prospect of trusting the collection of over-elevated local councillors and the odd fruit loop in Cardiff Bay with increased responsibility.
What say you? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:52 - Mar 30 with 2199 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:42 - Mar 30 by WATP |
Wales doesn’t want to be like the ROI.
The people of Wales have rejected the Eu. |
Have you heard of Cambridge Analytica ?
Cheat, cheat, cheat.
Very close in Wales btw, English press frightened the feck wits. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 14:50 - Mar 30 with 2176 views | WATP |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:52 - Mar 30 by Kilkennyjack |
Have you heard of Cambridge Analytica ?
Cheat, cheat, cheat.
Very close in Wales btw, English press frightened the feck wits. |
You keep telling yourself that , if it brings you comfort. |  | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 15:33 - Mar 30 with 2168 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 14:50 - Mar 30 by WATP |
You keep telling yourself that , if it brings you comfort. |
Comes down to about 42,000 prople in wales voting leave.
Change that vote to remain - and its a small remain win.
About the population of Neath.
Vote leave spent £4.9m out of £7m total spend allowed on all this data stuff, just in case you think its not important. Even more if the other leaver groups are actually involved in a co-ordinated manner. Which is illegal. | |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 16:05 - Mar 30 with 2160 views | londonlisa2001 |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 10:07 - Mar 30 by johnlangy |
It would be worth considering why, in the mid 90's, the English press started to publish figures for revenue/expenditure which showed that Wales was a financial basket case. Strangely, up to that point, all the studies since the second World War showed the Welsh economy to be roughly balanced.
The only way the figures can be explained is that they measured them differently. They started with a deliberate vast underestimation of Welsh tax revenues and compared this underestimation of revenue with an expenditure figure bloated with examples similar to KK's post and, hey presto, a huge deficit.
The important question to ask is why. The only thing I can think of that was different was that the referendum on the Assembly was coming up. Being a cynic I would argue that they were deliberately starting the process of planting the seed of doubt in people's minds. To make them believe that Wales needed England, that we couldn't be an Independent country for financial reasons. Thus ensuring even if we voted for the Assembly we wouldn't go any further.
And it's worked. I've lost track of the hundreds of times i've seen people quoting the lies of the English press re the Welsh economy.
Seriously. How can anyone with half a brain just read two numbers in an English newspaper and come to the conclusion from just those two numbers that Wales would not be able to stand on it's own two feet. How could they not ask the question of how the numbers were calculated.
And I referred to English newspapers a number of times there deliberately. Isn't it sad that there is no Welsh newspaper industry to speak of. ALL the main Welsh newspapers are English owned (Trinity Mirror owns the WM, Post and Daily Post in the North). Perhaps if there was a real Welsh National Press they might employ a serious investigative journalist who would publish an alternative view of the Welsh economy which would debunk the lies that the English press have peddled all these years.
Not very likely to happen is it. |
"It would be worth considering why, in the mid 90's, the English press started to publish figures for revenue/expenditure which showed that Wales was a financial basket case. Strangely, up to that point, all the studies since the second World War showed the Welsh economy to be roughly balanced. "
Well it's because of the decline in the coal and steel industries that happened in the 80s and early 90s. Massive decrease in Welsh gross product as a result. Even now, those industries and the jobs that they created haven't been replaced, hence the balance that remains to this day. Until someone in Welsh government recognises it, it'll continue. Ironically, Plaid's current direction of travel will never result in the type of economy that could lead to independence. |  | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 17:52 - Mar 30 with 2132 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 16:05 - Mar 30 by londonlisa2001 |
"It would be worth considering why, in the mid 90's, the English press started to publish figures for revenue/expenditure which showed that Wales was a financial basket case. Strangely, up to that point, all the studies since the second World War showed the Welsh economy to be roughly balanced. "
Well it's because of the decline in the coal and steel industries that happened in the 80s and early 90s. Massive decrease in Welsh gross product as a result. Even now, those industries and the jobs that they created haven't been replaced, hence the balance that remains to this day. Until someone in Welsh government recognises it, it'll continue. Ironically, Plaid's current direction of travel will never result in the type of economy that could lead to independence. |
Strange that wales is so poor, after all £4 trillion worth of coal was extracted from wales. | |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 22:14 - Mar 30 with 2097 views | WATP |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 15:33 - Mar 30 by Kilkennyjack |
Comes down to about 42,000 prople in wales voting leave.
Change that vote to remain - and its a small remain win.
About the population of Neath.
Vote leave spent £4.9m out of £7m total spend allowed on all this data stuff, just in case you think its not important. Even more if the other leaver groups are actually involved in a co-ordinated manner. Which is illegal. |
Wales voted out. End of discussion. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 22:20 - Mar 30 with 2091 views | Swanjaxs |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 22:14 - Mar 30 by WATP |
Wales voted out. End of discussion. |
We.Are.The.People.... End of any discussion with you lot surely? Always right... never wrong ..... 🇨🇮🇨🇮🇨🇮🇨🇮😎💚 |  |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 23:37 - Mar 30 with 2069 views | trampie |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 22:14 - Mar 30 by WATP |
Wales voted out. End of discussion. |
There is a lot of immigration into Wales. |  |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 07:06 - Mar 31 with 2015 views | WATP |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 23:37 - Mar 30 by trampie |
There is a lot of immigration into Wales. |
The vote to leave the Eu would have been even greater in Wales and the rest of the U.K., had foreign nationals not been allowed to vote.
Another attempt by the remain side to fix the vote. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 07:46 - Mar 31 with 2000 views | trampie |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 07:06 - Mar 31 by WATP |
The vote to leave the Eu would have been even greater in Wales and the rest of the U.K., had foreign nationals not been allowed to vote.
Another attempt by the remain side to fix the vote. |
I'm not talking ex pats from Wales, I'm talking immigrants into Wales [second and third generation immigrants as well]. | |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 08:24 - Mar 31 with 1990 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 07:06 - Mar 31 by WATP |
The vote to leave the Eu would have been even greater in Wales and the rest of the U.K., had foreign nationals not been allowed to vote.
Another attempt by the remain side to fix the vote. |
Mind you as the young adults of 16 will have to live the consequences of Brexit, should they have had a vote ?
And the opposite for anyone over ,say, 70 ?
I know you wont understand this, but it was too complex and too important to have a referendum. Dai Cam fecked up big time.
And the BBC have stopped showing desperate young Africans trying to flee Calais and into the uk. Why is that ? | |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 10:50 - Mar 31 with 1959 views | WATP |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 08:24 - Mar 31 by Kilkennyjack |
Mind you as the young adults of 16 will have to live the consequences of Brexit, should they have had a vote ?
And the opposite for anyone over ,say, 70 ?
I know you wont understand this, but it was too complex and too important to have a referendum. Dai Cam fecked up big time.
And the BBC have stopped showing desperate young Africans trying to flee Calais and into the uk. Why is that ? |
3 yr old will have their futures under an independent U.K. as well , should they have been consulted and allowed to vote ?.
Why were Irish citizens allowed to vote on Brexit ? . | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 12:24 - Mar 31 with 1935 views | Lohengrin |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 07:46 - Mar 31 by trampie |
I'm not talking ex pats from Wales, I'm talking immigrants into Wales [second and third generation immigrants as well]. |
Like Leanne Wood? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 12:53 - Mar 31 with 1923 views | Highjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 12:24 - Mar 31 by Lohengrin |
Like Leanne Wood? |
#Bootherout |  |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 12:56 - Mar 31 with 1922 views | Lohengrin |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 12:53 - Mar 31 by Highjack |
#Bootherout |
#welshnotsaxon  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:31 - Mar 31 with 1909 views | WATP |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 12:24 - Mar 31 by Lohengrin |
Like Leanne Wood? |
Are you saying wood is from immigrant stock ? | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:44 - Mar 31 with 1904 views | Lohengrin |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:31 - Mar 31 by WATP |
Are you saying wood is from immigrant stock ? |
As English as the smack of leather on willow. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:47 - Mar 31 with 1896 views | WATP |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:44 - Mar 31 by Lohengrin |
As English as the smack of leather on willow. |
Trampie, couldn’t be reached for a comment. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 15:01 - Mar 31 with 1867 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:47 - Mar 31 by WATP |
Trampie, couldn’t be reached for a comment. |
I know you wont understand this, but Plaid and SNP represent an inclusive modern civic nationalism, not a hateful xenophobic Brexit style nationalism. English people who live and work in wales, and contribute to wales are as welcome as the welsh speaking farmers of Carmarthenshire. One nation. | |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 17:41 - Mar 31 with 1834 views | exiledclaseboy |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 15:01 - Mar 31 by Kilkennyjack |
I know you wont understand this, but Plaid and SNP represent an inclusive modern civic nationalism, not a hateful xenophobic Brexit style nationalism. English people who live and work in wales, and contribute to wales are as welcome as the welsh speaking farmers of Carmarthenshire. One nation. |
That may be your view but I doubt it’s one shared by all in the Plaid and SNP movements. At the end of the day, nationalists are nationalists. Small minded, parochial, insular amd with an inherent dislike/distrust of “outsiders”. |  |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 17:57 - Mar 31 with 1820 views | Lohengrin |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 17:41 - Mar 31 by exiledclaseboy |
That may be your view but I doubt it’s one shared by all in the Plaid and SNP movements. At the end of the day, nationalists are nationalists. Small minded, parochial, insular amd with an inherent dislike/distrust of “outsiders”. |
That’s the same catalogue of calumny you have trotted out several times before, Sir Andrew. Have a copy and paste of the previous response for your troubles...
From a roguishly handsome, intellectually expansive interpreter of pan-European nationalism your comment has just been given the amused, haughty sniff of disdain 
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:01 - Mar 31 with 1807 views | exiledclaseboy |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 17:57 - Mar 31 by Lohengrin |
That’s the same catalogue of calumny you have trotted out several times before, Sir Andrew. Have a copy and paste of the previous response for your troubles...
From a roguishly handsome, intellectually expansive interpreter of pan-European nationalism your comment has just been given the amused, haughty sniff of disdain
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I’d have expected nothing less. And at least we’re both consistent. | |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:02 - Mar 31 with 1804 views | trampie |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 17:41 - Mar 31 by exiledclaseboy |
That may be your view but I doubt it’s one shared by all in the Plaid and SNP movements. At the end of the day, nationalists are nationalists. Small minded, parochial, insular amd with an inherent dislike/distrust of “outsiders”. |
I think you are wrong, Plaid and SNP are all inclusive, I agree with Kilkenny. | |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:10 - Mar 31 with 1785 views | Lohengrin |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:01 - Mar 31 by exiledclaseboy |
I’d have expected nothing less. And at least we’re both consistent. |
You can set your watch by me, Sir Andrew. You know that.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:16 - Mar 31 with 1777 views | Joe_bradshaw |
Given the EU’s reaction to the vote in Catalonia is the Plaid vision of ‘Wales in Europe’ anything but fantasy? |  |
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