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VE day 07:54 - May 7 with 2934 viewssaint22

What’s everyone doing to celebrate the freedom of Europe from tyranny in isolation on our isolated island separated from Europe?
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VE day on 16:07 - May 8 with 781 viewsSteveMoron

VE day on 13:59 - May 8 by 1885_SFC

Dear me. May was the end of the war in Europe - hence the 'VE' Victory in Europe motto - that is being remembered today. I'm sure you know this and you're just a WUM.

As regards the bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki that you're eluding to; it's very easy for people like you to voice their distaste all these years on. The fact of the matter is though that the Yanks had already witnessed the horror and fanatical suicide attacks the Japanese threw at them as they fought their way up through the Pacific. The last thing the Americans wanted to do was have to invade the Japanese mainland itself & lose thousands of troops to fanatical people defending the country by any means possible. The bombs were dropped to avoid this. It was all about saving American lives - not Japanese. And who could blame the Yanks?

Except you.


Oh well that's okay then! If only you'd have said earlier.
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VE day on 16:31 - May 8 with 762 views1885_SFC

VE day on 15:55 - May 8 by Paninaro83

Fair point. It’s great we can celebrate 5 years of killings to get to peace. The best way to do this is fly the British flag outside your house and do very British things. It’s what all loyal European citizens should be doing.


Funnily enough, Germany is celebrating the 75th anniversary of the war's end today - for the first time since 1945 - and also has a bank holiday today... for the first time.

They are marking the defeat of Nazi Germany & the many victims of fascism - kind of a warning to future generations.

So not so much of a 'little British' tradition after all.

Old School is Cool

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VE day on 16:48 - May 8 with 751 viewsYarman

VE day on 15:55 - May 8 by Paninaro83

Fair point. It’s great we can celebrate 5 years of killings to get to peace. The best way to do this is fly the British flag outside your house and do very British things. It’s what all loyal European citizens should be doing.


I think most of Europe is REMEMBERING today not celebrating..... it does not make you Racist , xenophobic or anti- European
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VE day on 17:10 - May 8 with 738 viewsPaninaro83

VE day on 16:48 - May 8 by Yarman

I think most of Europe is REMEMBERING today not celebrating..... it does not make you Racist , xenophobic or anti- European


If shooting foreigners isn’t xenophobic what is? 🤷🏾‍♀️

What a catalyst you turned out to be!

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VE day on 17:23 - May 8 with 729 views1885_SFC

VE day on 16:07 - May 8 by SteveMoron

Oh well that's okay then! If only you'd have said earlier.


Some in the White House, at the time, wanted to bomb Tokyo itself. They knew an invasion of Japan would result in horrific American casualties. President Truman however wanted to bring the war to a speedy end by demonstrating what the 'new' bomb could do. Truman and his advisors concluded that only bombing a city would make an adequate impression. Any advance warning to evacuate a city would endanger the bomber crews; the Japanese would be forewarned and attempt to shoot them down. The target cities were carefully chosen. First, it had to be a city that had suffered little damage from conventional bombing so it couldn’t be argued that the damage came from anything other than the atomic bomb. Second, it must be a city primarily devoted to military production. This was complicated, however, because in Japan, workers homes were intermingled with factories so that it was impossible to find a target that was exclusively military. Finally, Truman stipulated it should not be a city of traditional cultural significance to Japan, such as Kyoto. Truman did not seek to destroy Japanese culture or people; the goal was to destroy Japan’s ability to make war.

The day after the Hiroshima bomb was dropped, Truman received a telegram from Senator Richard B. Russell of Georgia, encouraging the president to use as many atomic bombs as possible on Japan, claiming the American people believed “that we should continue to strike the Japanese until they are brought groveling to their knees.” Truman responded, “I know that Japan is a terribly cruel and uncivilized nation in warfare but I can't bring myself to believe that because they are beasts, we should ourselves act in that same manner. For myself I certainly regret the necessity of wiping out whole populations because of the ‘pigheadedness’ of the leaders of a nation, and, for your information, I am not going to do it unless absolutely necessary.”

I'm not lecturing. I'm just saying.

Old School is Cool

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VE day on 19:36 - May 8 with 699 viewsSoton

VE day on 17:10 - May 8 by Paninaro83

If shooting foreigners isn’t xenophobic what is? 🤷🏾‍♀️


I suppose it depends on the reason why you are “ shootings foreigners”
If said foreigners were say to go on and maybe murder 1000s of Jews, Slavs and anyone else who didn’t fit there ideals it might be a good idea to try and curb those ambitions
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VE day on 19:42 - May 8 with 699 viewskernow

When I was 14 my teacher recommended I read the Knights of Bushido. A harrowing account of Japanese war crimes commited against the Chinese civilian population during the so called rape of Nanking.

Japanese militarism had to be destroyed in any way and as quickly as possible.

It's remarkable that General McArthur established democratic order in Japan within 7 years .
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VE day on 19:58 - May 8 with 685 viewsSoton

The reason why the Americans dropped the bombs is because of this
This is not my writing but a very informative article from a Romanian named Tudor Ion

Most probably the Americans would have got their own version of Stalingrad in terms of casualties and brutality.
During the War, the Americans made plans for an amphibious invasion of Japan. The code name of the invasion was Operation Downfall

It consisted of two separate operations: Operation Olympic ( invasion of Kyūshū on 1 November 1945) and Operation Coronet ( invasion of Honshu on 1 March 1946 ).
The plan was that the Allied force ( Americans + Commonwealth troops ) were going to land first on the Kyushu island after a huge bombardment campaign. They had to establish beachheads and then advance north. Their scope wasn’t to capture the entire island but to create bases for future bomb campaign. The most important part of the invasion, Operation Coronet, consisted of more landings on the Honshu island, near Tokio. After they had secured the beaches they had to advance and capture Tokio.
In the meantime, a Soviet invasion of the northern island, Hokkaido, was expected. In our timeline, the Soviets invaded Manchuria, the northern part of Korea and Kuril Islands in August 1945. However, a Soviet invasion of the Home Islands wasn’t a serious threat for the Japanese. The Soviet Pacific Fleet didn’t have the capability to sustain a large amphibious invasion. Most probably Stalin would have given up any intention to invade Japan and would have limited only to take entire Korea and gave an extended help to Mao.
For Operation Downfall, the Allies were going to prepare a huge army. The Armada prepared for the Invasion was going to be composed of 42 aircraft carries, 24 battleships and 400 destroyers. The grand total of the land forces used was estimated to be around 6,000,000 men. About aircraft, there aren’t sure numbers. Anyway, the approximate number would be of around 100 air groups.
From June 1945, the Japanese started to prepare for an invasion. In the summer of ’45, the Armed Forces of the Empire of Japan were only a shadow of them but they were still capable to inflict big damages to the Allies.
The debris of the Navy was kept in the docks. They had 5 aircraft carries ( damaged ) and 4 battleships ( again, damaged ) and 23 destroyers. These ships were going to be used as anti-aircraft weapons or for the protection of ports. The Navy also had 400 midget submarines. Also, starting in June, they were preparing a fleet of Shin'yō suicide boats. These boats were loaded with explosives and/or gasoline and were sent to crash of Allied ships.
Japanese were capable in August ’45 to put together around 10,000 aircraft taken from the Navy, Aviation and Land Forces. Their biggest problem was the lack of oil and trained pilots. However, the biggest part of these aircraft was expected to be used in Kamikaze attacks over the Allied landing forces in the first days of the Invasion.
There aren’t exact numbers for the troops the Japanese had available for the defence. The number can be anywhere between 3 and 4 million. The quality of the units was varied. Some of them were good quality units retread from Manchuria and Korea before the Soviet invasion and others were formed of newly drafted soldiers with little experience. All of them had in common something: a lack of ammunition and equipment. The Japanese’s plan was to concentrate the biggest part of their forces against the invasion of KyÅ«shÅ«.
Anyway, the Japanese started in the meantime to prepare civilians to fight against the Allies. They created the Volunteer Fighting Corps. These units were formed by females between the age of 17 and 40 and all men between 16 and 60 who have not incorporated already in the military due to various reasons. Around 30,000,000 were considered to be qualified for the Volunteer Corps but only 2,000,000 received training. Their scope was to fight a guerilla type warfare in the mountain and urban regions using mostly rudimentary weapons: Molotov cocktails, swords, old firearms etc.

Finally, let’s talk about casualties. The most conservative estimations talked about around 200,000 casualties at least. The worst estimates for the Allies were made by William Shockley, a physicist employed by the Department of War. He estimated over 1,000,000 casualties. These numbers can seem huge, but if we take into account all factors in favour of Japanese: the mountainous terrain of the landing zones, the weather, their determination to fight, the guerilla warfare etc. they start to look realistic.
On the Japanese side, the casualties were expected to be a few timi8es bigger than the Allied ones. Add the guerrilla warfare, the bombardments, the starvation etc and you can reach a figure above 10,000,000 people.
There isn’t any doubt that the Allies would have won if they tried an amphibious invasion but it would have come with a huge price. In the light of the numbers presented above, you start to ask yourself which would have been the littlest evil: the nuclear bombs or the invasion. If you look at the numbers it seems that the bombs actually saved more people than it killed

I for one shudder when I think about the death and destruction the atomic bombs caused, but if I at the time had to go to Japan to fight those fanatics I would of demanded my government use the bombs instead. Maybe you reap what you sow
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VE day on 20:11 - May 8 with 675 viewsYarman

VE day on 17:10 - May 8 by Paninaro83

If shooting foreigners isn’t xenophobic what is? 🤷🏾‍♀️


I don't think Britain started the shooting first..
[Post edited 8 May 2020 21:20]
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VE day on 20:38 - May 8 with 648 viewsSadoldgit

Two things that came from those two decisions to use atomic weapons. The war against Japan was brought to a swift end and saved lives. The effect of the two bonds was so terrible that atomic weapons have not been used since. If we had any sense as a species, these weapons would be banned and never used again. Sadly there will always be conflict between various different factions and who is to say that at some point in the future a case for the use of these terrible weapons will not be made again.
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VE day on 20:53 - May 8 with 642 viewsSteveMoron

VE day on 17:23 - May 8 by 1885_SFC

Some in the White House, at the time, wanted to bomb Tokyo itself. They knew an invasion of Japan would result in horrific American casualties. President Truman however wanted to bring the war to a speedy end by demonstrating what the 'new' bomb could do. Truman and his advisors concluded that only bombing a city would make an adequate impression. Any advance warning to evacuate a city would endanger the bomber crews; the Japanese would be forewarned and attempt to shoot them down. The target cities were carefully chosen. First, it had to be a city that had suffered little damage from conventional bombing so it couldn’t be argued that the damage came from anything other than the atomic bomb. Second, it must be a city primarily devoted to military production. This was complicated, however, because in Japan, workers homes were intermingled with factories so that it was impossible to find a target that was exclusively military. Finally, Truman stipulated it should not be a city of traditional cultural significance to Japan, such as Kyoto. Truman did not seek to destroy Japanese culture or people; the goal was to destroy Japan’s ability to make war.

The day after the Hiroshima bomb was dropped, Truman received a telegram from Senator Richard B. Russell of Georgia, encouraging the president to use as many atomic bombs as possible on Japan, claiming the American people believed “that we should continue to strike the Japanese until they are brought groveling to their knees.” Truman responded, “I know that Japan is a terribly cruel and uncivilized nation in warfare but I can't bring myself to believe that because they are beasts, we should ourselves act in that same manner. For myself I certainly regret the necessity of wiping out whole populations because of the ‘pigheadedness’ of the leaders of a nation, and, for your information, I am not going to do it unless absolutely necessary.”

I'm not lecturing. I'm just saying.


"Japan cruel and uncivilized. We don't want to be like them"
Let's drop a few atomic bombs on them and kill 200,000.
Were you actually trying to justify that by your quote?
It's incredible how people get so wrapped up in the fervour of war and nationalism/patriotism that they make excuses for these acts.
I'm not lecturing. Just saying.
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VE day on 21:28 - May 8 with 625 viewsSoton

VE day on 20:53 - May 8 by SteveMoron

"Japan cruel and uncivilized. We don't want to be like them"
Let's drop a few atomic bombs on them and kill 200,000.
Were you actually trying to justify that by your quote?
It's incredible how people get so wrapped up in the fervour of war and nationalism/patriotism that they make excuses for these acts.
I'm not lecturing. Just saying.


I find that interesting, if it was down to you what do you think you might of done?, with hindsight and all
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VE day on 22:02 - May 8 with 610 views1885_SFC

VE day on 20:53 - May 8 by SteveMoron

"Japan cruel and uncivilized. We don't want to be like them"
Let's drop a few atomic bombs on them and kill 200,000.
Were you actually trying to justify that by your quote?
It's incredible how people get so wrapped up in the fervour of war and nationalism/patriotism that they make excuses for these acts.
I'm not lecturing. Just saying.


That was a quote by Truman - his words.

Obviously education passed you by in your youth.

Old School is Cool

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VE day on 22:36 - May 8 with 595 viewsSoton

VE day on 22:02 - May 8 by 1885_SFC

That was a quote by Truman - his words.

Obviously education passed you by in your youth.


That maybe true but the question still stands, what would you of done
It’s your chance to dazzle everyone with your superior education
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VE day on 22:54 - May 8 with 589 viewsBicester_North

VE day on 21:28 - May 8 by Soton

I find that interesting, if it was down to you what do you think you might of done?, with hindsight and all


If the US and Soviets had invaded Japan there would’ve likely been even more civilians dead than with the A-bombs, plus enormous numbers of military casualties. It was an impossible situation.
Look what happened to the civilians in places like Warsaw and Nanking, and even across Germany when the Soviets went in. Arguably a worse fate than being bombed from the air.

Poll: Who do you feel most sorry for

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VE day on 23:45 - May 8 with 572 views1885_SFC

VE day on 22:36 - May 8 by Soton

That maybe true but the question still stands, what would you of done
It’s your chance to dazzle everyone with your superior education


What superior education is that then? Anyone can learn about the war if they can be arsed. It helps when the subject is what you earn a living at.

And for what it's worth - I'd have done exactly the same as Truman if it was down to me. I'd be more interested in saving the lives of my own boys first and foremost.

But that's not what you want to hear though is it?

Old School is Cool

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VE day on 05:57 - May 9 with 544 viewsSoton

VE day on 23:45 - May 8 by 1885_SFC

What superior education is that then? Anyone can learn about the war if they can be arsed. It helps when the subject is what you earn a living at.

And for what it's worth - I'd have done exactly the same as Truman if it was down to me. I'd be more interested in saving the lives of my own boys first and foremost.

But that's not what you want to hear though is it?


Me, I would of dropped the bombs
By that time bombing was a normal thing to do and you don’t pushed into or enter a war without out knowing that death and destruction will follow
[Post edited 9 May 2020 6:21]
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(No subject) (n/t) (n/t) on 05:59 - May 9 with 544 viewsSoton

VE day on 23:45 - May 8 by 1885_SFC

What superior education is that then? Anyone can learn about the war if they can be arsed. It helps when the subject is what you earn a living at.

And for what it's worth - I'd have done exactly the same as Truman if it was down to me. I'd be more interested in saving the lives of my own boys first and foremost.

But that's not what you want to hear though is it?


I would of dropped the bomb, as I said at the bottom of the copy and paste article I posted, if I had to go to Japan and fight those fanatics on there home soil knowing my country had a weapon that could end it I wouldn’t of been happy
I know the general public didn’t know that the USA had the bomb, but I couldn’t imagine the out cry if It was found out they did have it and they never used it when tens of thousands more allied troops died because it was never used
Besides even after Hiroshima was bombed the Japanese still never surrendered so that showed their leadership resolve to fight on and to hell with the consequences
It seems we’re got to crossed purposes some how
Have you ever listened to Will Carlings hardcore history podcasts, he is American but covers a lot history in a very interesting way, good listing while driving
[Post edited 9 May 2020 6:19]
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VE day on 08:36 - May 9 with 509 viewsRon11

VE day on 17:17 - May 7 by 1885_SFC

Over the years I have learnt so much about the whole of WW2 - the weapons, field gear, insignia, basically everything 'material' that was used by the Allies. That's where the core of my business is - house clearances, antique/military fairs & car boots, etc - finding & locating treasures from the era. It's true what antique dealers say; 'you never stop learning in this game'. I know several dealers off the telly personally that you see on daytime TV, including the big Pompey fan John Cameron who runs Nesbits Auctions in Southsea & Pompey girl Karen Dalmeny. Then there's Henry Nicholls who runs a shop in Worthing. They contact me or I them if they find anything in my line or I meet up with them at Kempton racecourse antiques fair twice a month (well worth a visit if you're looking for something unique or interesting btw!).

Having spent 12-years at sea, I had all the time in the world to read books & have lost count of how many I have read. Not all war stories or military of course (I'm a big fan of Frederick Forsyth, Wilbur Smith & the horror genre too), but read many books about the war by many 'ordinary' people who fought in it. I have read much about the politics & campaigns of the war... but the one thing, above all else, that always intrigues me & fascinates me is the personal accounts of the ordinary men that fought in it. I guess I have a special particular interest in the air crews - especially the RAF and USAF long range bomber crews and the horrific missions many of them flew. I'm not sure why, but they hold a special place in my soul (without sounding over dramatic). I have owned many WW2 RAF flight logbooks over the years that make fascinating reading; entries from young lads who flew RAF bombing missions on the Fiat factory in Italy for example or industrial factories deep into Germany. They make far better reading than any military author could write!

I never tire of reading & learning about it - and I'm forever amazed at what still turns up at auctions & car boots on my travels even today. It's an exciting field of interest to be in & one that beats a 9-5 office job (which I'm just not cut out for)!


'Bomber Boys' is a good read.
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VE day on 08:37 - May 9 with 509 viewsJaySaint

I sense there was a significant amount of self-loathing going on with FBPE types yesterday.

Certainly felt like it across social media (which off course is not a true barometer of the nation)

Poll: Who is responsible for Liverpool's defeat?

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VE day on 08:53 - May 9 with 500 viewsRon11

VE day on 11:37 - May 8 by Paninaro83

Make sure they don’t get mistaken for a junior national front rally


That comment right there clearly adds an explanation as to why Corbyn and his shower of shite did so poorly in the last election.
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VE day on 09:01 - May 9 with 492 viewsRon11

VE day on 20:38 - May 8 by Sadoldgit

Two things that came from those two decisions to use atomic weapons. The war against Japan was brought to a swift end and saved lives. The effect of the two bonds was so terrible that atomic weapons have not been used since. If we had any sense as a species, these weapons would be banned and never used again. Sadly there will always be conflict between various different factions and who is to say that at some point in the future a case for the use of these terrible weapons will not be made again.


I agree, but Putin won't listen.
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VE day on 10:22 - May 9 with 465 viewsSadoldgit

VE day on 20:53 - May 8 by SteveMoron

"Japan cruel and uncivilized. We don't want to be like them"
Let's drop a few atomic bombs on them and kill 200,000.
Were you actually trying to justify that by your quote?
It's incredible how people get so wrapped up in the fervour of war and nationalism/patriotism that they make excuses for these acts.
I'm not lecturing. Just saying.


As inhuman as it’s sounds, the bombing of civilians was commonplace by both sides in WW2. The only difference is the scale of the explosive force of the bombs and the after effect of radiation. In an ideal world the A bonds would have been used to obliterate the Japanese army, but we do not live in an ideal world and it would not have been that simple anyway. What happened in Japan was awful in terms of what it did to the civilian population, but London, Coventry, Cologne etc also took a pounding to their civilian populations. War sucks.
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