| Lockdown on 10:53 - Aug 3 with 1797 views | mingthemerciless |
| Lockdown on 10:03 - Aug 3 by DaleiLama |
The latest I heard on radio Bolton this morning was to "lockdown" all over 50s for their own safety. Long way from policy yet, but it seems it's being discussed. So we have an eat out to help out scheme Mon-Weds but lock all the 50+ yr olds up? I would argue most in this age group are, as you say, the most socially responsible and most diligent since they are the most heavily invested stakeholders in preserving their own lives. They will probably also, in the most part, be the ones likely to have most time and still have significant spending power to help get the economy afloat. And no doubt many will have made summer holiday plans which is just what the economy needs.
There is a reason guidance is put out. It isn't always perfect and in some cases appears contradictory. For example you can't go to your parents house/garden responsibly to talk to them but can sit in a pub and talk to them at the next table (where money is changing hands). In many cases, measures taken are a blunt instrument to solve a complex problem but it is a set of principles based on sound science. If that science and principles are followed, life can go on, albeit differently. Locking 50+ year olds up for three months isn't the answer. |
Locking up the 50 plus age group ? What party would lock up most of it's voters ? Sorry to bring politics into this.
Having said that I advocated a version of this back at the start of the pandemic but I set the age barrier at 65 ( I'm 71 so it'd affect me and my wife) . Get the ones that the virus will affect badly enough to be a drain on the NHS to shield until a cure/vaccine arrives and let the rest of the country try and get on with their lives as best they can.
It won't happen for the reason I stated in my second sentence. [Post edited 3 Aug 2020 10:55]
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| Lockdown on 13:21 - Aug 3 with 1658 views | upthedale |
| Lockdown on 14:45 - Aug 2 by 1mark1 |
Yes it can spread droplets, Trade Unions have called for it not to be used , instead using natural cooling, like windows when possible. Some employers have stopped the use, including mine. |
That's interesting (and nordenblue) - any evidence of this that is being used?
I get emails from HSE and they've all said the opposite so far (that I've seen), providing the air used is fresh rather than re-circulated.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/equipment-and-machinery/air-conditioning-and- |  | | |
| Lockdown on 14:22 - Aug 3 with 1591 views | 1mark1 |
Yes it’s a very confusing situation. On the one hand the HSE saying it’s relatively safe, but conflating evidence to show at least some types of air conditioning, or poorly maintained units, can be unsafe. So yes it looks like if an unit can use 100% fresh air then it can be used.
My workplace is a DWP Storage facility, but run by Iron Mountain, a giant in world wide storage. They have banned the use of air conditioning units in their work places, unless there is no other way to cool workers down. They are also still keeping to the 2 meter social distancing rules, including canteens, and a one at a time toilet use.
Here are a couple of links/ letters.
https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/covid-19-risk-linked-to-poor-ventilation-study/
“To: All Members in DWP and GEC.
06 July 2020
DWP/MB/100/20
Use of fans and air-conditioning units
Despite the continuing growing scientific evidence about the risk of transmission of Covid-19 through airborne particles, the DWP management have unilaterally changed their advice on the use of fans. There was no consultation with PCS about this change, despite management having reached agreement the union on the decision to halt the use of desk fans and air conditioning systems which do not exchange the air with fresh air from outside.
PCS has also written to the Health and Safety Executive on 29th June asking how they have arrived at their conclusion that air conditioning and desk fans pose ‘an extremely low risk’ and to provide us with their evidence.
Based on scientific studies of the virus compiled by the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth we issued guidance to reps outlining these risks and advising the use of air conditioning and desk fans to factored into risk assessments. The Federation of European heating, ventilation and air conditioning association (REHVA), representing over 120,000 HVAC designers, building services engineers, technicians and experts across 27 European countries, backs up our concerns and advises employers to implement and number of measures to make ventilation systems covid secure.
The European Union Aviation Safety Agency warns more must be done to improve ventilation to reduce corona risk. A report from China show infections among bus passengers in Hunan Province suggests air conditioning can play a role in helping the virus to travel up to 4.5 metres.
Researchers found a substantial probability that normal speaking causes airborne virus transmission in confined environments (Stadnytsky et al 2020) Given the nature of the work in the DWP where large numbers of our members are spending a great deal of time talking to the public or other colleagues on the phone then we need to take the airborne transmission of the virus very seriously. PCS negotiators are keen that control measures are taken to reduce the risk of transmission of Covid-19 in our workplaces to the lowest possible level. This includes continuing to avoid using desk fans and air-conditioning systems which do not exchange the air with fresh air and ensuring that 2m social distancing is operating at all times.
We have requested that DWP management revert to their original position agreed with the unions that we should avoid the risk posed by desk fans and air conditioning systems which do not exchange the air by continuing to stop their use. We need to avoid anything that can potentially increase the risk in our workplaces with airborne virus transmission as one of the factors in this. We still have not had a response from the HSE to revisit their change in advice and no evidence to corroborate this.
We continue to advise our members to refrain from using desk fans and air conditioning systems which do not exchange the air to reduce the risk in coronavirus spreading through our workplaces.
Carol Revell​​​​​​ Katrine Williams
DWP Group Safety Officer​​​​ DWP Group Vice President” |  |
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| Lockdown on 16:39 - Aug 3 with 1497 views | upthedale |
Interesting reads, thanks Mark.
We've got plastic screens around desks, 2m spaces between each person and it's a spacious office anyway fortunately. Also only one person in each toilet like you say. Everyone also has to take their temperature on the way in and record it on a sheet.
Along with a few other minor measures.
We've kept air con on, based on HSE primarily, as it pulls through fresh air - I'll keep an eye out for further info though - I had seen there was some conflicting advice, but had assumed HSE was a fairly safe bet! | | | |
| Lockdown on 11:31 - Aug 5 with 1319 views | isitme |
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