| Christmas Carnage? 13:11 - Dec 18 with 34454 views | Sadoldgit |
Infection rates are generally rising fast despite the tier systems so you can imagine the spike after the free for all Christmas period. Johnson obviously doesn’t want to be seen as a Grinch but by not closing down Christmas there will be a lot fewer people enjoying it with their loved ones next year.
We are battening down the hatches this Christmas. I just hope that people are sensible and do the same. Sadly though I think people will just go for it and be damned. |  | | |  |
| Christmas Carnage? on 20:08 - Jan 6 with 1407 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 20:02 - Jan 6 by 1885_SFC |
You said: "Christmas not even close to being the main reason for where we are now."
I'm just pointing out what an idiotic & crass statement that was and you should withdraw it. |
Do you not get the difference between x2 and x100 ?
Of course it's nowhere near the main reason. I can't keep referring you back to the graphs - the thing was heading in this direction with or without Christmas.
Anyway, whatever, if you want to blame Santa for everything, that's fine. |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 20:14 - Jan 6 with 1387 views | JaySaint |
That does not mean the entire NHS is about to collapse.
The ONS figures state that hospitals are not as busy compare to 12 months ago.
Now, I am sure ICU and COVID directed areas are, but again, does not equate to the NHS on the brink [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 20:14]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 20:23 - Jan 6 with 1369 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 20:14 - Jan 6 by JaySaint |
That does not mean the entire NHS is about to collapse.
The ONS figures state that hospitals are not as busy compare to 12 months ago.
Now, I am sure ICU and COVID directed areas are, but again, does not equate to the NHS on the brink [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 20:14]
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I'm sure you have seen the figures today (more Covid infections than ever recorded). Some ICU units are saying they are having to choose who to treat in some areas. That has to be addressed and the lockdown will bring down cases and deaths in the end. You can't just leave the cases going up and do nothing, when NHS staff are reporting what they are reporting. We can't risk loads of people dying because they haven't been treated, even if it is only in some areas. It's obvious that ICU units COULD become overwhelmed, with infections going up so dramatically. Back to the original point, people protesting in London, when nurses are in tears in ICU units, wasting police time when people are dying, makes them complete idiots. Most of us can see the desperate situation. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 20:36 - Jan 6 with 1356 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 20:23 - Jan 6 by Saintsforeverj |
I'm sure you have seen the figures today (more Covid infections than ever recorded). Some ICU units are saying they are having to choose who to treat in some areas. That has to be addressed and the lockdown will bring down cases and deaths in the end. You can't just leave the cases going up and do nothing, when NHS staff are reporting what they are reporting. We can't risk loads of people dying because they haven't been treated, even if it is only in some areas. It's obvious that ICU units COULD become overwhelmed, with infections going up so dramatically. Back to the original point, people protesting in London, when nurses are in tears in ICU units, wasting police time when people are dying, makes them complete idiots. Most of us can see the desperate situation. |
You are right. Most of us can. Others are only interested in playing things down or in blaming the victims. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 20:37 - Jan 6 with 1355 views | JaySaint |
More COVID infections? more so as we are testing around 600k per day.
Back in April it was about 600x less.
No doubt COVID has reared its ugly head. Always was going to given the time of year. But it is not the plague, the NHS is stretched (as it is every single winter), and the economic destruction is enormous for an infection / illness that has a 99.97% survival rate.
That is not me being a COVID denier, that me me saying the total shut down (relatively for a western society) will not work. As Whittier said, sooner or later, we are going to have to live with it. Hopefully, that is soon and the jabs work. [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 20:41]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 20:45 - Jan 6 with 1337 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 20:37 - Jan 6 by JaySaint |
More COVID infections? more so as we are testing around 600k per day.
Back in April it was about 600x less.
No doubt COVID has reared its ugly head. Always was going to given the time of year. But it is not the plague, the NHS is stretched (as it is every single winter), and the economic destruction is enormous for an infection / illness that has a 99.97% survival rate.
That is not me being a COVID denier, that me me saying the total shut down (relatively for a western society) will not work. As Whittier said, sooner or later, we are going to have to live with it. Hopefully, that is soon and the jabs work. [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 20:41]
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We are very lucky that they have found a vaccine. Had we not found one, we would have been left with few options, as lockdown forever wouldnt have been doable. But being that we have a vaccine, lockdown should be a thing of the past,very soon. For now, the lockdown will obviously bring down the rate of infection. It will work, in that it will bring down the infection rate and therefore hospital admissions. In a few months (hopefully) people will be vaccinated and we can release the lockdown. That's the plan and that is what is needed. None of us like it but most of us understand. There isn't another choice, we can't risk lives and people dying in the streets. [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 20:46]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 20:55 - Jan 6 with 1316 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 20:36 - Jan 6 by DorsetIan |
You are right. Most of us can. Others are only interested in playing things down or in blaming the victims. |
We could’ve killed it | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 20:57 - Jan 6 with 1313 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 20:37 - Jan 6 by JaySaint |
More COVID infections? more so as we are testing around 600k per day.
Back in April it was about 600x less.
No doubt COVID has reared its ugly head. Always was going to given the time of year. But it is not the plague, the NHS is stretched (as it is every single winter), and the economic destruction is enormous for an infection / illness that has a 99.97% survival rate.
That is not me being a COVID denier, that me me saying the total shut down (relatively for a western society) will not work. As Whittier said, sooner or later, we are going to have to live with it. Hopefully, that is soon and the jabs work. [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 20:41]
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Did you watch Question Time tonight? The only way we can currently prevent the virus by spreading is by lockdown. If they can roll the vaccine out quickly enough we can look past a national lockdown in the not too distant future, but the only was to prevent it spreading even further currently is by preventing people spreading it to others.
Do you accept that there is a second wave now? You say you aren’t a covid denier but I see to remember you questioning that there would be a second wave. | | | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 21:55 - Jan 6 with 1282 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 20:55 - Jan 6 by Bicester_North |
We could’ve killed it |
Don't be silly. It was inevitable that it increased a hundred fold in 4 months. Nothing anyone could have done. 'Kill it', pah, we couldn't even find it. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 22:25 - Jan 6 with 1259 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 21:55 - Jan 6 by DorsetIan |
Don't be silly. It was inevitable that it increased a hundred fold in 4 months. Nothing anyone could have done. 'Kill it', pah, we couldn't even find it. |
We could’ve killed it in summer. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 22:34 - Jan 6 with 1247 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 22:25 - Jan 6 by Bicester_North |
We could’ve killed it in summer. |
We didn't though, did we. And now it's rampant again. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 22:36 - Jan 6 with 1245 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 22:34 - Jan 6 by DorsetIan |
We didn't though, did we. And now it's rampant again. |
It should’ve been dead in summer, properly killed. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 22:37 - Jan 6 with 1243 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 22:36 - Jan 6 by Bicester_North |
It should’ve been dead in summer, properly killed. |
But it wasn't, it was let off the leash again and it has multiplied 100x since then. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 22:40 - Jan 6 with 1238 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 22:37 - Jan 6 by DorsetIan |
But it wasn't, it was let off the leash again and it has multiplied 100x since then. |
We could’ve crushed it back then, never to be seen again | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 22:46 - Jan 6 with 1232 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 22:40 - Jan 6 by Bicester_North |
We could’ve crushed it back then, never to be seen again |
But instead we mistakenly thought that we had already done that, so we opened the restaurants, we allowed people on holiday and then, just as the numbers were picking up again we opened the schools...
...and at last I think the penny is dropping for you... | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 10:16 - Jan 7 with 1169 views | Sadoldgit |
What is especially sad is that you didn’t have to be a genius to see that without tight restrictions over the Christmas period, the infection rate and death rate would spike again. So many people are losing their lives for the sake of a few days with families or friends. When they see the price that has been paid by many unfortunates, perhaps those who have been playing down the effect that this virus can have if not contained will now start to see how serious the situation is? | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:31 - Jan 7 with 1153 views | dwayne_dibley |
MPs and Senior Civil Servants are obviously concerned about the impact of the pandemic on the availability of Private Health Care |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 10:32 - Jan 7 with 1153 views | 1885_SFC |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:16 - Jan 7 by Sadoldgit |
What is especially sad is that you didn’t have to be a genius to see that without tight restrictions over the Christmas period, the infection rate and death rate would spike again. So many people are losing their lives for the sake of a few days with families or friends. When they see the price that has been paid by many unfortunates, perhaps those who have been playing down the effect that this virus can have if not contained will now start to see how serious the situation is? |
Was there a surge because of Christmas though?... or were the graphs heading on an upwards trajectory anyway?
Personally, I'm with Ian on this. I have studied the graphs. The graphs show that we would have had 60,000+ cases each day even without Xmas. You can blame Christmas all you like - but look at the graphs. There is no proof of a single case due to Xmas. Check the government graphs!
The graphs don't lie. |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 10:37 - Jan 7 with 1143 views | dwayne_dibley |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:32 - Jan 7 by 1885_SFC |
Was there a surge because of Christmas though?... or were the graphs heading on an upwards trajectory anyway?
Personally, I'm with Ian on this. I have studied the graphs. The graphs show that we would have had 60,000+ cases each day even without Xmas. You can blame Christmas all you like - but look at the graphs. There is no proof of a single case due to Xmas. Check the government graphs!
The graphs don't lie. |
can I have a box of whatever you are taking please | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 10:45 - Jan 7 with 1131 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:32 - Jan 7 by 1885_SFC |
Was there a surge because of Christmas though?... or were the graphs heading on an upwards trajectory anyway?
Personally, I'm with Ian on this. I have studied the graphs. The graphs show that we would have had 60,000+ cases each day even without Xmas. You can blame Christmas all you like - but look at the graphs. There is no proof of a single case due to Xmas. Check the government graphs!
The graphs don't lie. |
It usually takes a few weeks for the infection to reach the point where it kills the victim so we are only just seeing the results of the Christmas infections now. I thought you would have known that? | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:49 - Jan 7 with 1130 views | Butty101 |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:16 - Jan 7 by Sadoldgit |
What is especially sad is that you didn’t have to be a genius to see that without tight restrictions over the Christmas period, the infection rate and death rate would spike again. So many people are losing their lives for the sake of a few days with families or friends. When they see the price that has been paid by many unfortunates, perhaps those who have been playing down the effect that this virus can have if not contained will now start to see how serious the situation is? |
The goverment didnt force people to meet up over christmas. Everyone knew the risk.
Christmas was another example of the "Great British " public. |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 11:04 - Jan 7 with 1122 views | 1885_SFC |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:45 - Jan 7 by Sadoldgit |
It usually takes a few weeks for the infection to reach the point where it kills the victim so we are only just seeing the results of the Christmas infections now. I thought you would have known that? |
Yes - I know fully well that mixing at Christmas = lots more infections in the New Year.
Anyone with any sense knew that... apart from Ian that is.
irony
/ˈʌɪrəni/
noun
the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 11:18 - Jan 7 with 1118 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 11:04 - Jan 7 by 1885_SFC |
Yes - I know fully well that mixing at Christmas = lots more infections in the New Year.
Anyone with any sense knew that... apart from Ian that is.
irony
/ˈʌɪrəni/
noun
the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. |
My comments about your Christmas error were prompted only by your crass suggestion that many of the people in hospital only had themselves to blame.
You then explained that you thought that it was their behaviour over Christmas that had put them there.
Sorry 1885, but this is very different to you now trying to suggest that I am somehow denying that not one single person got ill over Christmas, which of course I'm not.
The point - and it's always been the point - is that the numbers were going through the roof before Christmas and have been for weeks, so it is a complete red herring to single out Christmas and what people did at Christmas for why people are now in hospital. It's also ignores the fact that, as SOG pointed out, there is a time lag between infections, symptoms developing and hospital admissions so those in hospital now are likely to have been infected earlier AND even if they contracted it at Christmas time, how do you know it was because of blameworthy Christmas mixing - people were catching it in large number before any Christmas mixing, so those infections would have continued anyway.
But you carry on with your 'Ian doesn't think anyone caught this at Christmas - what an idiot' line. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 17:34 - Jan 7 with 1065 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 10:49 - Jan 7 by Butty101 |
The goverment didnt force people to meet up over christmas. Everyone knew the risk.
Christmas was another example of the "Great British " public. |
You are quite right and people will always make their own calls, but the rules/guidance needed to reflect the seriousness of the situation and by not locking down firmer sooner the government sent out the wrong message. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:51 - Jan 7 with 1047 views | Bettwsresident |
The Zoe covid app showed the first wave peaked at around 1million people being infected in the first week of april. I was one of them. Now Zoe's figure is 806k, but the ONS is saying it is 1.2m and rising. This new strain seems not to be controlled by lockdown. The vaccine cant come soon enough.
in my little hamlet in the black mountains 5 of the 9 households have had covid. 3 in the first wave, 1 in the summer and 1 in Oct. So far the old farmer and the lovely old woman who has lived her all her life have escaped it and are due to be jabbed this month. A farmers wife up the valley died in the first wave, and a good friends 70yr old dad is currently on life support for the 2nd time. He was touch or go for 5 days just before christmas got better was sent to a recovery hospital but in the last week it has all gone horribly wrong and he back in the royal Gwent | | | |
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