| Severn Bridge Tolls 16:36 - Jul 21 with 6750 views | Swans777 |
To be scrapped altogether by the end of 2018.
Great news for South Wales.  |  | | |  |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:59 - Jul 21 with 1520 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:51 - Jul 21 by monmouth |
Yes, I would say so. Particularly lorries. This will have a major effect on the M50 and Ross/Monmouth roads, and the A48 in Chepstow, depending on whether the M5/M4 links can cope. |
The only traffic using the m50 / A449 will be heading for Cardiff and Newport. An improved link into Cardiff and Newport East of Bryngkas will sort that. All traffic for the ROI and West of Cardiff will use the heads of the Valley. |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:01 - Jul 21 with 1515 views | Swans777 |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:49 - Jul 21 by londonlisa2001 |
No, I meant that if it's true that no one avoids the tolls because of cost, it can't possibly have a billion pound impact on the Welsh economy.
Either it boosts the economy (implication being greater trade) in which case there must be trade being stopped at present due to the tolls, or it doesn't have any effect because no one's behaviour will change. |
Where have you got a billion £ from ?
I have said I have met no one who has avoided the tolls because of the cost, even though I'd imagine there are some who have.
This is a positive step and one that will no doubt result in more investment into South Wales.
Now let's get the M4 around Newport fit for purpose. | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:02 - Jul 21 with 1510 views | ploppy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:42 - Jul 21 by Private_Partz |
Yeh, BBC Cardiff also reported a few months ago that an 'expert' said Brynglas was the most congested in Europe which is bollo.
It is just commuter traffic that slows the flow down at peak times and there is a decent road South if the tunnels that can be improved for that. The twinning of the Heads of the Valley will more than compensate for any increase in flows anyway. |
It's just commuter traffic but if you're a commuter it's a bastard. Your comment about the SDR only holds water if you can get to the filter lane that goes off to the SDR. More often than not the queues are further back than where the filter lane starts. And people go in the filter lane anyway and clog it up when trying to jump the queue. And I fail to see how the HoV is going to help. No-one in their right mind going westbound from the bridges is going to go off at the Celtic Manor, to Raglan, Abergavenny, up Black Rock, etc to avoid a queue in Newport. Relief road for me - no question. |  | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:03 - Jul 21 with 1506 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:01 - Jul 21 by Swans777 |
Where have you got a billion £ from ?
I have said I have met no one who has avoided the tolls because of the cost, even though I'd imagine there are some who have.
This is a positive step and one that will no doubt result in more investment into South Wales.
Now let's get the M4 around Newport fit for purpose. |
Hundred million.
Misread the zeros.
I don't disagree that the statement that it's good news, not least for those of us that drive it frequently, but it will require road improvements (which are required anyway to be honest, as the M4 in Wales is dreadful). | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:04 - Jul 21 with 1506 views | Swans777 |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:58 - Jul 21 by Neath_Jack |
Heads of the Valleys and Margam is not and never will be, the gateway into Wales. IT is the worst bit of road (frustrating) that i drive through, and i'm all over the country every day of my career. It is desperately needed. |
Without doubt.
If Wales wants to be taken seriously, then the M4 around the bridge and Newport needs improving drastically. | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:06 - Jul 21 with 1500 views | Swans777 |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:03 - Jul 21 by londonlisa2001 |
Hundred million.
Misread the zeros.
I don't disagree that the statement that it's good news, not least for those of us that drive it frequently, but it will require road improvements (which are required anyway to be honest, as the M4 in Wales is dreadful). |
Of course, but because there is problems with congestion along the M4, isn't a reason not to scrap the tolls. | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:10 - Jul 21 with 1493 views | ploppy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:59 - Jul 21 by Private_Partz |
The only traffic using the m50 / A449 will be heading for Cardiff and Newport. An improved link into Cardiff and Newport East of Bryngkas will sort that. All traffic for the ROI and West of Cardiff will use the heads of the Valley. |
I can only speak for myself but I don't currently see much traffic coming down the A449 to join the M4 in Newport so any improvement due to the HoV will be minimal. | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:31 - Jul 21 with 1478 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:34 - Jul 21 by raynor94 |
Well, BBC Wales are reporting a 20% increase in traffic on the M4, and the infrastructure is not up to it, the relief road is desperately |
Nah, they were reporting that some sources predict a potential 20% increase in bridge usage. Big difference. |  |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:46 - Jul 21 with 1457 views | 3swan |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 17:30 - Jul 21 by Darran |
Only tight fuçkers like 3swan. |
Am I your new target? 
M50 and HoV every time for me | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:58 - Jul 21 with 1449 views | monmouth |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:46 - Jul 21 by 3swan |
Am I your new target?
M50 and HoV every time for me |
And if there's no toll? |  |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 20:04 - Jul 21 with 1442 views | ploppy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:31 - Jul 21 by exiledclaseboy |
Nah, they were reporting that some sources predict a potential 20% increase in bridge usage. Big difference. |
From the BBC website
The Welsh Government said it had looked at the impact of scrapping the tolls as part of preparation for the public inquiry into plans for an M4 relief road around Newport.
"Our modelling shows that immediately adjacent to the Second Severn Crossing traffic levels would increase by around 20%," a spokesman said.
"At the Brynglas tunnels [in Newport] this would filter down to around 7%, and dropping to a 2% increase before Cardiff." | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 20:15 - Jul 21 with 1433 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 20:04 - Jul 21 by ploppy |
From the BBC website
The Welsh Government said it had looked at the impact of scrapping the tolls as part of preparation for the public inquiry into plans for an M4 relief road around Newport.
"Our modelling shows that immediately adjacent to the Second Severn Crossing traffic levels would increase by around 20%," a spokesman said.
"At the Brynglas tunnels [in Newport] this would filter down to around 7%, and dropping to a 2% increase before Cardiff." |
It was less nuanced than that on the TV news. But fair enough if that's what it says. Looks like that relief road will be needed then. I don't drive up that way enough to be all that bothered. [Post edited 21 Jul 2017 20:18]
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 20:33 - Jul 21 with 1419 views | ploppy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 20:15 - Jul 21 by exiledclaseboy |
It was less nuanced than that on the TV news. But fair enough if that's what it says. Looks like that relief road will be needed then. I don't drive up that way enough to be all that bothered. [Post edited 21 Jul 2017 20:18]
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I'd say so. But then, I get stuck in the rush hour traffic every damn day, so I have a vested interest.
Out of interest, I just checked Google Maps. I know it's "schools breaking up" day, but it's 8:20pm and the traffic approaching the Brynglas Tunnel westbound is queuing back to the Celtic Manor (red halfway, then orange). It's the only part of the road network in Wales showing any congestion. Certainly no congestion west of Newport anywhere. I realise it's only one data point but the lack of congestion anywhere else is telling (if you can believe Google Maps, of course). | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 20:41 - Jul 21 with 1407 views | Darran |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:46 - Jul 21 by 3swan |
Am I your new target?
M50 and HoV every time for me |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 20:47 - Jul 21 with 1403 views | raynor94 |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:31 - Jul 21 by exiledclaseboy |
Nah, they were reporting that some sources predict a potential 20% increase in bridge usage. Big difference. |
So i wasn't that far off the mark then |  |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 21:16 - Jul 21 with 1386 views | Flashberryjack |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 20:33 - Jul 21 by ploppy |
I'd say so. But then, I get stuck in the rush hour traffic every damn day, so I have a vested interest.
Out of interest, I just checked Google Maps. I know it's "schools breaking up" day, but it's 8:20pm and the traffic approaching the Brynglas Tunnel westbound is queuing back to the Celtic Manor (red halfway, then orange). It's the only part of the road network in Wales showing any congestion. Certainly no congestion west of Newport anywhere. I realise it's only one data point but the lack of congestion anywhere else is telling (if you can believe Google Maps, of course). |
I passed through the Brynglass tunnel about 4:30 this morning, as expected trafffic was light at that time of the morning, but even at that time the traffic started to build up.
The crazy 50 MPH speed limit and variable speed cameras seemed to be causing the problem. |  |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:44 - Jul 22 with 1318 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:58 - Jul 21 by Neath_Jack |
Heads of the Valleys and Margam is not and never will be, the gateway into Wales. IT is the worst bit of road (frustrating) that i drive through, and i'm all over the country every day of my career. It is desperately needed. |
If you have only one gateway I would agree but there is not. There are more than just the Severn crossing which will only serve London and SW traffic. Don't get taken in by BBC Cardiff spin.
The HOV is a disaster of a road currently but when the works are completed it will be fit for purpose. Even an upgrade to motorway would be on for the future as it will be dualled for its full length from the A449 to Llandarcy.
I billion plus ( for it will be much more than that now) would be much better spent elsewhere.
Brynglas is a Cardiff commuter problem. You sail through outside of peak times. This issue can be addressed south of Brynglas with improvements to existing infrastructure. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:55 - Jul 22 with 1310 views | Neath_Jack |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:44 - Jul 22 by Private_Partz |
If you have only one gateway I would agree but there is not. There are more than just the Severn crossing which will only serve London and SW traffic. Don't get taken in by BBC Cardiff spin.
The HOV is a disaster of a road currently but when the works are completed it will be fit for purpose. Even an upgrade to motorway would be on for the future as it will be dualled for its full length from the A449 to Llandarcy.
I billion plus ( for it will be much more than that now) would be much better spent elsewhere.
Brynglas is a Cardiff commuter problem. You sail through outside of peak times. This issue can be addressed south of Brynglas with improvements to existing infrastructure. |
Ha, i don't get taken in by any spin my friend, i have zero chips on my shoulder on who gets what, and all that other nit picking that goes on. I speak from experience only, and maybe selfishly but what suits me and my family i guess. You can dress it up whichever you wish, but Newport is absolutely the gateway to Wales, and it's an abortion of a stretch of road.
I still don't get why you are so opposed to getting the road built, you can have your other improvements done when the relief road is up and running. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.... |  |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:55 - Jul 22 with 1310 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:02 - Jul 21 by ploppy |
It's just commuter traffic but if you're a commuter it's a bastard. Your comment about the SDR only holds water if you can get to the filter lane that goes off to the SDR. More often than not the queues are further back than where the filter lane starts. And people go in the filter lane anyway and clog it up when trying to jump the queue. And I fail to see how the HoV is going to help. No-one in their right mind going westbound from the bridges is going to go off at the Celtic Manor, to Raglan, Abergavenny, up Black Rock, etc to avoid a queue in Newport. Relief road for me - no question. |
Slip rioads are an issue everywhereat at peak times. The only way to address that is by local improvements. Look at Margam where you have to go down to 50 as the flyover as is not fit for purpose without any alternative routes.
I am not suggesting London and SW traffic will use the HOV. That is just plain daft What I am suggesting is that, non Cardiff, Midlands and the North traffic will be using the M50, A449 and the HOV therby not touching Brynglas. That will reduce traffic there and improvements South of the tunnels will go along way to easing the Cardiff commuter traffic from the area as well.
A billion plus pounds can be much better spent elsewhere imho. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 10:03 - Jul 22 with 1303 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:10 - Jul 21 by ploppy |
I can only speak for myself but I don't currently see much traffic coming down the A449 to join the M4 in Newport so any improvement due to the HoV will be minimal. |
The A449 is very capable of taking increased capacity. When I travel from the North I use it and Brynglas with about a 12 minute delay at peak times at the latter. I guarantee you, once the HOV is completed, traffic from the Midlands and North will not go all the way down to the m5 / M4 interchange to cross the bridge into Cardiff and Newport. Even less likely for non Cardiff and ROI traffic. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 10:09 - Jul 22 with 1296 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:55 - Jul 22 by Neath_Jack |
Ha, i don't get taken in by any spin my friend, i have zero chips on my shoulder on who gets what, and all that other nit picking that goes on. I speak from experience only, and maybe selfishly but what suits me and my family i guess. You can dress it up whichever you wish, but Newport is absolutely the gateway to Wales, and it's an abortion of a stretch of road.
I still don't get why you are so opposed to getting the road built, you can have your other improvements done when the relief road is up and running. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.... |
Ah the old 'chips on the shoulder argument' you hear that one less and less nowadays. 'Nit Picking'? Wake up and smell the coffee. Wales is being shafted outside of Cardiff and the SE. Rome not built in a day? Sod Rome, It's got enough. Think about the rest of Italy first. If you get my analogy. ;-) | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 10:14 - Jul 22 with 1292 views | ploppy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 10:03 - Jul 22 by Private_Partz |
The A449 is very capable of taking increased capacity. When I travel from the North I use it and Brynglas with about a 12 minute delay at peak times at the latter. I guarantee you, once the HOV is completed, traffic from the Midlands and North will not go all the way down to the m5 / M4 interchange to cross the bridge into Cardiff and Newport. Even less likely for non Cardiff and ROI traffic. |
12 mins! Ha! You're not joining the fecking queue at Magor then, are you.
I don't quite get your argument re the A449. It may be capable of taking increased capacity, but I don't see that it's used extensively at the moment anyway (at least southbound to the M4). | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 11:27 - Jul 22 with 1283 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 10:14 - Jul 22 by ploppy |
12 mins! Ha! You're not joining the fecking queue at Magor then, are you.
I don't quite get your argument re the A449. It may be capable of taking increased capacity, but I don't see that it's used extensively at the moment anyway (at least southbound to the M4). |
The only time I have ever ever to queued at Magor is during freak times like school / Uni holidays starting/ finishing , Sporting events and road works.
Don't get me wrong. Brynglas is a pinch point, as is Margam flyover, but the former can be addressed without spunking a billion. Particularly as I can see the situation improving with all ROI and West of Cardiff traffic heading north leaving the M4 long before Brynglas and Vicky Verky. God knows the Sat Navs will see to that as the route is shorter as well.
I honestly think this billion pound nonsense is an attempt to build an M25 structure around Cardiff which will only increase traffic and associated investment around it.
The 'Gateway to Wales' as someone mentioned earlier will still be firmly shut at Margam. Maybe we should get Edwina Heart out of retirement and get her to close a few junctions around Brynglas. For that is what she tried to lay on the commuters of Port Talbot. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 14:06 - Jul 22 with 1232 views | 3swan |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 19:58 - Jul 21 by monmouth |
And if there's no toll? |
Still the same.
Never used the bridge on the way back even no Toll.
If problems with HoV then M4 and up the A449.
I couldn't miss the delights of passing Monmouth could I  | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 14:16 - Jul 22 with 1230 views | ploppy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 11:27 - Jul 22 by Private_Partz |
The only time I have ever ever to queued at Magor is during freak times like school / Uni holidays starting/ finishing , Sporting events and road works.
Don't get me wrong. Brynglas is a pinch point, as is Margam flyover, but the former can be addressed without spunking a billion. Particularly as I can see the situation improving with all ROI and West of Cardiff traffic heading north leaving the M4 long before Brynglas and Vicky Verky. God knows the Sat Navs will see to that as the route is shorter as well.
I honestly think this billion pound nonsense is an attempt to build an M25 structure around Cardiff which will only increase traffic and associated investment around it.
The 'Gateway to Wales' as someone mentioned earlier will still be firmly shut at Margam. Maybe we should get Edwina Heart out of retirement and get her to close a few junctions around Brynglas. For that is what she tried to lay on the commuters of Port Talbot. |
Clearly you don't drive the Bristol to South Wales route as frequently as my colleagues and me. We'll just have to disagree.
Out of curiosity, I just checked Magor Services to Neath (where HoV joins M4) on Google Maps.
M4 - 54.1 miles - 55min without traffic (currently 1hr 14min)
M4/A449/HoV - 68.1 miles - 1hr 19min without traffic (currently 1hr 36min)
There's congestion on the M4. Guess where? Magor to Brynglas. Probably holiday traffic, but look at the distances and without traffic numbers. [Post edited 22 Jul 2017 14:27]
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