| Severn Bridge Tolls 16:36 - Jul 21 with 6751 views | Swans777 |
To be scrapped altogether by the end of 2018.
Great news for South Wales.  |  | | |  |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 17:59 - Jul 22 with 1595 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 14:16 - Jul 22 by ploppy |
Clearly you don't drive the Bristol to South Wales route as frequently as my colleagues and me. We'll just have to disagree.
Out of curiosity, I just checked Magor Services to Neath (where HoV joins M4) on Google Maps.
M4 - 54.1 miles - 55min without traffic (currently 1hr 14min)
M4/A449/HoV - 68.1 miles - 1hr 19min without traffic (currently 1hr 36min)
There's congestion on the M4. Guess where? Magor to Brynglas. Probably holiday traffic, but look at the distances and without traffic numbers. [Post edited 22 Jul 2017 14:27]
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Agree to disagree it is.
As regards your Googling, you seem to think I am advocating that London and SW traffic uses the HOV. I am not. I am talking about traffic heading from the N and Midlands to points West of Cardiff as far as the ferries for the ROI.
When I am driving back to Swansea, from Blackpool, the first thing my Sat Nav would do is recommend the HOV as it is the shorter distance. I never bother as the HOV is bad enough but under reconstruction it is even worse. I go via Brynglas. I either sail through, admittedly at 50 or 60mph, or at peak times the traffic is slow and I experience a 10 to 15 min delay. Rarely does the traffic halt for a minute or two. It will be HOV without fail for me once the works are compltete when I am traveling this route.
I often travel to my daughters in Gloucester and my pal babysits his grandchildren every other week in Oxford. This obviously involves Brynglas.Yes we find it can slow at peak times but it can be remedied with cheaper alternatives imho. It does not warrant 1 billion pounds chucked at it when the rest of Wales makes do with little better than farm tracks.
You can have the last word on this one though :-). I have had pelters for this in the past and I am certainly in a minority. I can only speak as I find though and travelling round then country there are far bigger pinch points that cause me more concern than this one. |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:50 - Jul 22 with 1564 views | ploppy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 17:59 - Jul 22 by Private_Partz |
Agree to disagree it is.
As regards your Googling, you seem to think I am advocating that London and SW traffic uses the HOV. I am not. I am talking about traffic heading from the N and Midlands to points West of Cardiff as far as the ferries for the ROI.
When I am driving back to Swansea, from Blackpool, the first thing my Sat Nav would do is recommend the HOV as it is the shorter distance. I never bother as the HOV is bad enough but under reconstruction it is even worse. I go via Brynglas. I either sail through, admittedly at 50 or 60mph, or at peak times the traffic is slow and I experience a 10 to 15 min delay. Rarely does the traffic halt for a minute or two. It will be HOV without fail for me once the works are compltete when I am traveling this route.
I often travel to my daughters in Gloucester and my pal babysits his grandchildren every other week in Oxford. This obviously involves Brynglas.Yes we find it can slow at peak times but it can be remedied with cheaper alternatives imho. It does not warrant 1 billion pounds chucked at it when the rest of Wales makes do with little better than farm tracks.
You can have the last word on this one though :-). I have had pelters for this in the past and I am certainly in a minority. I can only speak as I find though and travelling round then country there are far bigger pinch points that cause me more concern than this one. |
I don't particularly want to have the last word, but hey ho!
I agree, if I was coming from the M50, through Monmouth and heading for Neath or further West, I'd go on the HoV (before the work started, or after it's finished, maybe not currently). I used to love steaming up the Black Rock to Brynmawr - it worth it just for that. Anywhere East of Neath though and it's a toss up.
I may be proved wrong on this given time, but I don't think the improvement to the HoV will make any difference to the daily problem in Newport. I say this because I think the majority of the traffic that goes through the Brynglas tunnels comes from the Severn Bridges and people aren't going to change their route.
I'd be interested to know what your cheaper alternatives are (if you'd like to have the last word). And please don't mention the SDR - that's OK until you get to Newport Retail Park. And at the other end you have to deal with the nightmare that is the Tredegar Park junction. |  | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 21:28 - Jul 22 with 1536 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 18:50 - Jul 22 by ploppy |
I don't particularly want to have the last word, but hey ho!
I agree, if I was coming from the M50, through Monmouth and heading for Neath or further West, I'd go on the HoV (before the work started, or after it's finished, maybe not currently). I used to love steaming up the Black Rock to Brynmawr - it worth it just for that. Anywhere East of Neath though and it's a toss up.
I may be proved wrong on this given time, but I don't think the improvement to the HoV will make any difference to the daily problem in Newport. I say this because I think the majority of the traffic that goes through the Brynglas tunnels comes from the Severn Bridges and people aren't going to change their route.
I'd be interested to know what your cheaper alternatives are (if you'd like to have the last word). And please don't mention the SDR - that's OK until you get to Newport Retail Park. And at the other end you have to deal with the nightmare that is the Tredegar Park junction. |
I admit I can't go into great detail other than highlight what I have seen. There is a decent dual carriageway that we get shoved on to every time there are roadworks in the tunnel. I have a moan even at that as the diversion signs take no account of traffic that does not want tho go to Cardiff but are travelling West but that is for another post.
I might join you and google it then I can be more specific. :-)
With regards to junctions then these can be improved. A decent twinning could eliviate the commuter traffic using the tunnels and a billion pounds I am sure would not be swallowed up there.
I definitely disagree that Midlands and the North traffic come over the Severn Bridges. Why pay a toll when a shorter route is available? I am sure however they currently use Brynglas via the M50 / A449 as the HOV is a no go, even for me in my car. It would be a nightmare for a HGV at the moment. I know the tolls are going but a fully completed HOV would still provide a shorter and quicker route for such traffic.
Do you live in Swansea? If so would you continue to use Brynglas if you were heading to the Midlands or the North? WBA away for example? Personally I would not touch it with a barge pole. It would be HOV every time.
Buggar! I have asked you a question now so I guess the thread continues for at least another post ;-) | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 21:39 - Jul 22 with 1524 views | Loyal |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 17:19 - Jul 21 by Neath_Jack |
Number one infrastructure job should be to build the Newport relief road. |
Probably better just to move Newport, that would be a relief. |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 22:08 - Jul 22 with 1515 views | monmouth |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 21:39 - Jul 22 by Loyal |
Probably better just to move Newport, that would be a relief. |
Actually, you may jest, but just running a four lane each way carriageway road straight through the f*cking hole would improve things all round no end. |  |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 22:18 - Jul 22 with 1510 views | ploppy |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 21:28 - Jul 22 by Private_Partz |
I admit I can't go into great detail other than highlight what I have seen. There is a decent dual carriageway that we get shoved on to every time there are roadworks in the tunnel. I have a moan even at that as the diversion signs take no account of traffic that does not want tho go to Cardiff but are travelling West but that is for another post.
I might join you and google it then I can be more specific. :-)
With regards to junctions then these can be improved. A decent twinning could eliviate the commuter traffic using the tunnels and a billion pounds I am sure would not be swallowed up there.
I definitely disagree that Midlands and the North traffic come over the Severn Bridges. Why pay a toll when a shorter route is available? I am sure however they currently use Brynglas via the M50 / A449 as the HOV is a no go, even for me in my car. It would be a nightmare for a HGV at the moment. I know the tolls are going but a fully completed HOV would still provide a shorter and quicker route for such traffic.
Do you live in Swansea? If so would you continue to use Brynglas if you were heading to the Midlands or the North? WBA away for example? Personally I would not touch it with a barge pole. It would be HOV every time.
Buggar! I have asked you a question now so I guess the thread continues for at least another post ;-) |
Oh OK then. What else is there to do on a Saturday evening when the golf highlights are on.
I think the dual carriageway you mention is the Newport SDR - the Southern Distribution Road. Goes from Tredegar Park to the Coldra. Is that it? The problem with that is it's the route to Newport Retail Park, so you get caught in the traffic going shopping (not at 7 in the morning, but at 5 in the evening). And it's got roundabouts. The one nearest to Tesco gets especially snarled up. And Westbound you have to deal with Tredegar Park which is a bugger at rush hour.
BTW, I wasn't suggesting that Midlands and North traffic comes over the Bridges. I'm not sure where it goes but whenever I've looked at the traffic situation online (which, as a commuter, has become an obsession) I don't recall seeing congestion waiting to join the Coldra from the A449. I may be wrong.
No, I don't live in Swansea - far enough East that it removes the HoV as a sensible option for me. In your situation, I'd take the HoV as well - when it's finished.
Just to clarify, my commute is Eastbound in the morning (7-ish), Westbound in the evening (5-ish). | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 08:12 - Jul 23 with 1484 views | majorraglan |
If we want Swansea and West Wales to prosper then we have to have decent transport links, the HOV once completely dualled will offer a decent alternative, but the way the number of vehicles using the roads is increasing and the lack of a decent integrated public transport system across the region means we need massive investment in our road network.
The Brynglas tunnels aware a nightmare and need sorting, as does the M4 between Margam and Penllergaer. Further West it's the roads from St Clears to Pembroke and Haverfordwest. We also need 2 tidy North South roads, one on the coast and one through mid Wales, but as the population to the West of Swansea is comparatively much lower I can't see the investment forthcoming as you will get more "bang for you buck" further East.
The SDR in Newport and the new road off the M4 in Port Talbot are dual carriageways, but they are more designed for local traffic. The Port Talbot road has lots of roundabouts and a lower speed limit, there is no incentive to come off at Margam, i would chance my arm and stay on the M4 if I was going to Port Talbot or Aberavon. | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:00 - Jul 23 with 1478 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 08:12 - Jul 23 by majorraglan |
If we want Swansea and West Wales to prosper then we have to have decent transport links, the HOV once completely dualled will offer a decent alternative, but the way the number of vehicles using the roads is increasing and the lack of a decent integrated public transport system across the region means we need massive investment in our road network.
The Brynglas tunnels aware a nightmare and need sorting, as does the M4 between Margam and Penllergaer. Further West it's the roads from St Clears to Pembroke and Haverfordwest. We also need 2 tidy North South roads, one on the coast and one through mid Wales, but as the population to the West of Swansea is comparatively much lower I can't see the investment forthcoming as you will get more "bang for you buck" further East.
The SDR in Newport and the new road off the M4 in Port Talbot are dual carriageways, but they are more designed for local traffic. The Port Talbot road has lots of roundabouts and a lower speed limit, there is no incentive to come off at Margam, i would chance my arm and stay on the M4 if I was going to Port Talbot or Aberavon. |
Great post and well thought out. I agree with you. There are loads of pinch points. The m4 corridor and beyond in the South. In the North the A55 and the messs that is. Then in between......a complete wasteland almost entirely bereft of decent rail or road links.
One poster picked me up for not calling Wales a Country. How can we even begin to do that when North and South is completely divided meaning we need English road and rail links to travel between the two.
Think bigger. Think the whole of Wales I say. The billion pound road is our very own HS2. Let's deal with the local traffic causing issues and in the meantime use other funding to improve infastructure across Wales thereby encouraging investment in all ares other than just the SE. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:14 - Jul 23 with 1468 views | nice_to_michu |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:00 - Jul 23 by Private_Partz |
Great post and well thought out. I agree with you. There are loads of pinch points. The m4 corridor and beyond in the South. In the North the A55 and the messs that is. Then in between......a complete wasteland almost entirely bereft of decent rail or road links.
One poster picked me up for not calling Wales a Country. How can we even begin to do that when North and South is completely divided meaning we need English road and rail links to travel between the two.
Think bigger. Think the whole of Wales I say. The billion pound road is our very own HS2. Let's deal with the local traffic causing issues and in the meantime use other funding to improve infastructure across Wales thereby encouraging investment in all ares other than just the SE. |
In an ideal world, a three-lane motorway from south to north would be great, but I don't think it's a priority at all.
If you live in Wrexham or Bangor then the large cities of the north-west (Liverpool, Manchester, Blackpool etc) are far more important than Cardiff and Swansea could ever be. That's why they are going to have a NE Metro which will join up those urban areas. |  | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:43 - Jul 23 with 1454 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:14 - Jul 23 by nice_to_michu |
In an ideal world, a three-lane motorway from south to north would be great, but I don't think it's a priority at all.
If you live in Wrexham or Bangor then the large cities of the north-west (Liverpool, Manchester, Blackpool etc) are far more important than Cardiff and Swansea could ever be. That's why they are going to have a NE Metro which will join up those urban areas. |
I agree that is the cutrent situation. What do we want though? A completely divided principality reliant on English towns in the North and Cardiff in the South. Cardiff being the nearest thing to an English town you can possibly get. Wales has an opportunity to be a major link to the ROI. The state of the A55 and the M4 and it's A roads is preventing that. Along with the investment such corridors would bring. Then we have the N to S links. Look at the road and rail maps of England and Wales. We are a complete embarrassment. Look at the Canary Islands even?. Gran Canaria is much smaller than Wales. Even when stuffed with tourists. It still has a far more sophisticated road network than we have. Us being the 6th richest economy in the World.
Your views are certainly reflected in Cardiff Bay though. Keep the status quo. It is too expensive so pump the lot into Cardiff. In the meantime we suffer economically and people die on our farm track roads
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| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 12:01 - Jul 23 with 1425 views | nice_to_michu |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 09:43 - Jul 23 by Private_Partz |
I agree that is the cutrent situation. What do we want though? A completely divided principality reliant on English towns in the North and Cardiff in the South. Cardiff being the nearest thing to an English town you can possibly get. Wales has an opportunity to be a major link to the ROI. The state of the A55 and the M4 and it's A roads is preventing that. Along with the investment such corridors would bring. Then we have the N to S links. Look at the road and rail maps of England and Wales. We are a complete embarrassment. Look at the Canary Islands even?. Gran Canaria is much smaller than Wales. Even when stuffed with tourists. It still has a far more sophisticated road network than we have. Us being the 6th richest economy in the World.
Your views are certainly reflected in Cardiff Bay though. Keep the status quo. It is too expensive so pump the lot into Cardiff. In the meantime we suffer economically and people die on our farm track roads
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Good, I'm glad that view is reflected in Cardiff Bay. We aren't an independent nation in Wales so I see nothing wrong with developing links with neighboring English cities.
Like I said, the English cities near wrexham are far bigger and more prosperous than the English towns in the south west, and cardiff for that matter. This is why the NE metro is being built, and the politicians up north seem to be in favor of it so it appears to be a higher priority. | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 12:22 - Jul 23 with 1419 views | Dr_Winston |
NtM is correct. South Wales links nicely into SW England and London. Gogland has Manchester and Liverpool on its doorstep. There's absolutely no need for a North/South motorway link in Wales. Besides, the idea of building a motorway right through some of the most stunning scenery in Europe should be abhorrent.
Extending the M4 to link up with the ferryports in Pembrokeshire I can get behind though. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 12:32 - Jul 23 with 1410 views | Darran |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 12:22 - Jul 23 by Dr_Winston |
NtM is correct. South Wales links nicely into SW England and London. Gogland has Manchester and Liverpool on its doorstep. There's absolutely no need for a North/South motorway link in Wales. Besides, the idea of building a motorway right through some of the most stunning scenery in Europe should be abhorrent.
Extending the M4 to link up with the ferryports in Pembrokeshire I can get behind though. |
Says the experienced driver.  |  |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 13:56 - Jul 23 with 1385 views | Johnw102 |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 12:22 - Jul 23 by Dr_Winston |
NtM is correct. South Wales links nicely into SW England and London. Gogland has Manchester and Liverpool on its doorstep. There's absolutely no need for a North/South motorway link in Wales. Besides, the idea of building a motorway right through some of the most stunning scenery in Europe should be abhorrent.
Extending the M4 to link up with the ferryports in Pembrokeshire I can get behind though. |
Sod off we get invaded enough down here in the West, last thing we want is to make it easier for them, During the summer holidays it is already known as Birmingham on sea!!!  |  |
| Never knew getting old would happen so quick! |
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 14:45 - Jul 23 with 1371 views | Private_Partz |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 12:01 - Jul 23 by nice_to_michu |
Good, I'm glad that view is reflected in Cardiff Bay. We aren't an independent nation in Wales so I see nothing wrong with developing links with neighboring English cities.
Like I said, the English cities near wrexham are far bigger and more prosperous than the English towns in the south west, and cardiff for that matter. This is why the NE metro is being built, and the politicians up north seem to be in favor of it so it appears to be a higher priority. |
Your lack of ambition truly reflects your complacent Party. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Severn Bridge Tolls on 16:17 - Jul 23 with 1342 views | nice_to_michu |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 14:45 - Jul 23 by Private_Partz |
Your lack of ambition truly reflects your complacent Party. |
Says the card-carrying member of the Labour Party! As far as I'm aware, you're a member of the whole party, not Corbyn's. | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 21:17 - Jul 23 with 1294 views | Swans777 |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 12:01 - Jul 23 by nice_to_michu |
Good, I'm glad that view is reflected in Cardiff Bay. We aren't an independent nation in Wales so I see nothing wrong with developing links with neighboring English cities.
Like I said, the English cities near wrexham are far bigger and more prosperous than the English towns in the south west, and cardiff for that matter. This is why the NE metro is being built, and the politicians up north seem to be in favor of it so it appears to be a higher priority. |
What cites in the North west are "far bigger" than Bristol ?
And what cites in the north west is more prosperous than Bath ? | | | |
| Severn Bridge Tolls on 22:31 - Jul 23 with 1277 views | max936 |
Why is it necessary to wait until the end of 2018 to scrap the charges, they've flogged that horse for long enough. |  |
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