| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? 13:24 - Sep 30 with 11070 views | kropotkin41 |
What are the chances? After Tuesday night? [Post edited 30 Sep 2018 13:34]
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| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 14:41 - Oct 1 with 1972 views | GroveR |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 12:50 - Oct 1 by Dorse |
For what it's worth (i.e. fcuk all divided by six), I never really subscribed to the doctrine of the patented QPR Whirly Wheel Of Management. From the outside, it looks as though McLaren has committed the same sin as Hughes: the creation of a two-tier squad. Those that are 'In' and everyone else who may as well not bother turning up. |
Redknapp did the same although was a bit more blatant about it. |  | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 15:52 - Oct 1 with 1884 views | Dorse |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 14:41 - Oct 1 by GroveR |
Redknapp did the same although was a bit more blatant about it. |
He was a total cockslap, and no mistake. I think we can see similar cockslappery at work from McLaren. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 17:06 - Oct 1 with 1821 views | PinnerPaul |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 14:11 - Sep 30 by Northernr |
They'll give him every chance.
Lack of attractive alternatives a factor to consider. |
and the fact it never works?
Complicated by the (not quite) transfer embargo in Jan as well.
So even more so than usual - the argument that it will be the same players is true.
Think I've relayed this name dropping story before but worth repeating.
John Gregory told me once that the 'w*****rs' (his word) in the dressing room stop being w******rs for most new managers but it doesn't take long for them to revert to type after a while - whoever the new man is. |  | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 17:28 - Oct 1 with 1790 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 17:06 - Oct 1 by PinnerPaul |
and the fact it never works?
Complicated by the (not quite) transfer embargo in Jan as well.
So even more so than usual - the argument that it will be the same players is true.
Think I've relayed this name dropping story before but worth repeating.
John Gregory told me once that the 'w*****rs' (his word) in the dressing room stop being w******rs for most new managers but it doesn't take long for them to revert to type after a while - whoever the new man is. |
I know some are turning against the players, but they still feel like a decent lot to me. Scowen never acted like he did at Blackpool last season (I wonder if his wife being heavily pregnant had something to do with it?), and we don't have a single player I'd call 'lazy'. And they were certainly all still playing for Ollie and Birch last season. There aren't any primadonnas, they're not overpaid (relatively speaking).
It's one of two things. Either they're all PO'd with SM and are giving up, possibly because they think they can get rid of him. Or they like him, but his systems aren't working.
Maybe Birch and Ramsey would make a good team - results certainly improved last season when Ramsey became part of first team coaching. |  |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 17:50 - Oct 1 with 1738 views | Northernr |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 17:06 - Oct 1 by PinnerPaul |
and the fact it never works?
Complicated by the (not quite) transfer embargo in Jan as well.
So even more so than usual - the argument that it will be the same players is true.
Think I've relayed this name dropping story before but worth repeating.
John Gregory told me once that the 'w*****rs' (his word) in the dressing room stop being w******rs for most new managers but it doesn't take long for them to revert to type after a while - whoever the new man is. |
None of that has ever stopped us before.
Agree with you, and him, though. |  | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:13 - Oct 1 with 1697 views | PinnerPaul |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 17:28 - Oct 1 by Antti_Heinola |
I know some are turning against the players, but they still feel like a decent lot to me. Scowen never acted like he did at Blackpool last season (I wonder if his wife being heavily pregnant had something to do with it?), and we don't have a single player I'd call 'lazy'. And they were certainly all still playing for Ollie and Birch last season. There aren't any primadonnas, they're not overpaid (relatively speaking).
It's one of two things. Either they're all PO'd with SM and are giving up, possibly because they think they can get rid of him. Or they like him, but his systems aren't working.
Maybe Birch and Ramsey would make a good team - results certainly improved last season when Ramsey became part of first team coaching. |
Watch Luongo for 3rd goal - THAT'S lazy. (Just one example I know)
AS you know I'm in the players have to take a fair slice of the blame camp.
To expect the same players to somehow become brilliant for a new man is wishful thinking IMHO. | | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:15 - Oct 1 with 1693 views | Northernr |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:13 - Oct 1 by PinnerPaul |
Watch Luongo for 3rd goal - THAT'S lazy. (Just one example I know)
AS you know I'm in the players have to take a fair slice of the blame camp.
To expect the same players to somehow become brilliant for a new man is wishful thinking IMHO. |
Another reason we shouldn't have changed in the first place. | | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:17 - Oct 1 with 1679 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:13 - Oct 1 by PinnerPaul |
Watch Luongo for 3rd goal - THAT'S lazy. (Just one example I know)
AS you know I'm in the players have to take a fair slice of the blame camp.
To expect the same players to somehow become brilliant for a new man is wishful thinking IMHO. |
but but but Steveee is a great coach so can make them better players, that was the idea, no ?
Better coaching better tactics right? [Post edited 1 Oct 2018 18:19]
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:34 - Oct 1 with 1636 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:13 - Oct 1 by PinnerPaul |
Watch Luongo for 3rd goal - THAT'S lazy. (Just one example I know)
AS you know I'm in the players have to take a fair slice of the blame camp.
To expect the same players to somehow become brilliant for a new man is wishful thinking IMHO. |
Another angle on this is that I once heard some ex-player in the media (forget who, might be Chris Sutton) say that if the players lose confidence in the coach then they start ignoring the plans and instructions (because they don't expect them to work - sometimes rightly if the coach is crap!) and start trying to win games by doing their own thing; but as none of the other players know what that is, and some of them are probably still trying to work to the coach's plan, the result is a shambles. | | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:57 - Oct 1 with 1600 views | beanofire1 |
I've never felt as disconnected with my club as the day we appointed SM.
The premise he was bought in on - develop the younger players, buy from the lower leagues and again develop - has gone by the wayside.
Managing to sign two strikers on loan and then putting square pegs into round holes to accomodate both of them.
The players haven't covered themselves in glory either. We are so bloody passive as a defensive unit, shown only too well again at Swansea. |  |
| 'I knw I ain't doing much........but doing nothing means a lot to me.' |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 19:07 - Oct 1 with 1578 views | PunteR |
Maybe the problem lies with SM assistants. Both new to coaching and only coached lower leagues. Perhaps a reshuffle in that department is a cheaper alternative to sacking SM.? |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 23:24 - Oct 1 with 1451 views | Loftgirl |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 19:07 - Oct 1 by PunteR |
Maybe the problem lies with SM assistants. Both new to coaching and only coached lower leagues. Perhaps a reshuffle in that department is a cheaper alternative to sacking SM.? |
There appears to be enough of them to re-shuffle several times over. |  | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 01:18 - Oct 2 with 1372 views | timcocking |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 19:07 - Oct 1 by PunteR |
Maybe the problem lies with SM assistants. Both new to coaching and only coached lower leagues. Perhaps a reshuffle in that department is a cheaper alternative to sacking SM.? |
Blimey, no offence, but there is nothing less important in a football team than assistant managers.
Players are doing well, they'll have confidence, play well, there will be good team spirit and morale, the manager is a genius blah blah. Struggle and the players lose confidence, team spirit and morale obviously drops, loanees lose interest etc, manager's an idiot. You just need to do well.
Won't do well when a young, struggling team releases all of it's good experienced players and brings in an unknown foreigner who can barely kick a ball as your captain (therefore saying straight off the whole team is not good enough for the manager) and start with 4 self inflicted defeats. Then, if by some miracle you manage a highly improbable turn-around, why not make eleven fcuking changes and get spanked by a team from lower leagues; that's going to help club morale and momentum.
The people in charge of those awful, awful business decisions have done this, nothing to do with assistant caoches. Accept obviously, it should still be Marky Marc in there. To think it was an attempt to save a paltry few thousand here or there, fcuked the whole club for that. It was me, i'd have said fcuk you, won't pay the fine, shut the club down or fcuk off. |  | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 09:01 - Oct 2 with 1219 views | PinnerPaul |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:15 - Oct 1 by Northernr |
Another reason we shouldn't have changed in the first place. |
I agree there.
That's what's so depressing - its exactly the same arguments with just the names changed.
Someone even posted 'As many managers as it takes' - madness! | | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:02 - Oct 2 with 1177 views | traininvain |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:15 - Oct 1 by Northernr |
Another reason we shouldn't have changed in the first place. |
The powers that be made that decision, rightly or wrongly. Granted, it looks increasingly like a very poor decision.
We're now in a position whereby people are still emotionally charged over the sacking of Holloway and McClaren is taking the brunt of that anger which seems a bit unfair given that he didn't make the decision to sack Holloway.
My fear is that another managerial change only a couple of months into the season is a very risky strategy for a number of reasons. The main reason being the paucity of potential replacements with a tough season ahead and a January transfer embargo on the horizon.
I know a lot of people will say that we're better off without McClaren but I think that's massively underestimating the risks involved in changing manager at this stage in the season. |  | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:19 - Oct 2 with 1148 views | ingeminate |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 17:28 - Oct 1 by Antti_Heinola |
I know some are turning against the players, but they still feel like a decent lot to me. Scowen never acted like he did at Blackpool last season (I wonder if his wife being heavily pregnant had something to do with it?), and we don't have a single player I'd call 'lazy'. And they were certainly all still playing for Ollie and Birch last season. There aren't any primadonnas, they're not overpaid (relatively speaking).
It's one of two things. Either they're all PO'd with SM and are giving up, possibly because they think they can get rid of him. Or they like him, but his systems aren't working.
Maybe Birch and Ramsey would make a good team - results certainly improved last season when Ramsey became part of first team coaching. |
The Scowen pregnant thing makes sense.
If he's worried that she's going to pop at any minute he's probably doubly pissed off at being hauled up to Blackpool to play in a destined to lose weakened team.
Again doesn't look from the outside like great man-management. |  |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:22 - Oct 2 with 1144 views | Esox_Lucius |
I can't imagine that there will be any kind of decent manager banging the door down to join a club with transfer restrictions in January and a low salary on offer. I also don't believe that if it was anyone other than the unlikely prospect of either an ex QPR favourite or Colin, that the fans would give them even half a chance before calling for them to be sacked. That, as much as anything else, is what is killing QPR. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:41 - Oct 2 with 1102 views | simmo |
The more it goes on the more I think that 7-1 really killed us and we can't recover from it without massive change. We spent a whole pre-season talking about possession football, splitting the CB's, playing the 4-2-3-1 that McClaren favoured. We persisted with all of that through our worst start which culminated in us getting absolutely bummed to death at West Brom and in the panic, McClaren blamed the lack of both quality and experience and completely changed things, with the clubs blessing.
He's now persisting with a new way of killing us with a system, formation and way of playing that he hasn't used before and doesn't understand. It doesn't get the best out of the players we have, it's leaking goals while not creating chances to score, let alone get goals required to outscore teams. There's a lack of work rate/tenacity and nearly all of the fundementals we saw week in week out with Holloways team, regardless of results, are gone. Along with a lot of the younger players that were providing a strong connection with the fans and the 'old QPR' many of us were looking for pre-Premier League.
When you mix all of that in with a set of continued interviews referencing the performances that better meet the agenda of wanting to keep your job and abdicate responsibility rather than reality (something that's never wise with most fans, let alone those as streetwise as QPR supporters who even in the last 10 years have seen and lived through every trick in the book), it creates an environment where something HAS to change. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:42 - Oct 2 with 1102 views | traininvain |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:19 - Oct 2 by ingeminate |
The Scowen pregnant thing makes sense.
If he's worried that she's going to pop at any minute he's probably doubly pissed off at being hauled up to Blackpool to play in a destined to lose weakened team.
Again doesn't look from the outside like great man-management. |
Conversely, Scowen saw an opportunity to get sent off / suspended for a bit of paternity leave. | | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:43 - Oct 2 with 1096 views | PunteR |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 09:01 - Oct 2 by PinnerPaul |
I agree there.
That's what's so depressing - its exactly the same arguments with just the names changed.
Someone even posted 'As many managers as it takes' - madness! |
I think your quoting me there pinner. To put my quote into context someone asked how many managers would it take. Hence my reply " as many as it takes",which was based on how the owners run the club and not how i think it should be run.
Ive defended nearly every single manager we've had for the past 8 years under TF's watch and one thing ive learnt is if the manager isnt instantly successful then he's gone despite the club saying they want stability and long term success.
I dont think theres much to defend MacClaren on this occasion. He's been a disaster. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:50 - Oct 2 with 1074 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 18:13 - Oct 1 by PinnerPaul |
Watch Luongo for 3rd goal - THAT'S lazy. (Just one example I know)
AS you know I'm in the players have to take a fair slice of the blame camp.
To expect the same players to somehow become brilliant for a new man is wishful thinking IMHO. |
Yeah that's not great, but my point is that he's not a lazy player - it's a description I absolutely hate anyway - it's very rarely merited - the description itself often feels lazy to me. But I wouldn't describe him as a lazy player - he's usually perpetual motion, although Millwall apart he's had a poor start to this season.
I don't think anyone expects players to become 'brilliant; under a new manager, but last season, however poorly we played, you could tell the players were playing for Ollie and Birch. That already seems to have been eroded this season, for whatever reason. Having said that, we're playing no worse than we were about 8 or 9 months ago durng another losing run, which culminated in the utter embarrassment against Forest. Had Ollie gone then, very few would have complained. There are no easy answers. And look at Leeds - transformed with almost no new signings by a brilliant coach. It can happen. | |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:58 - Oct 2 with 1051 views | traininvain |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:50 - Oct 2 by Antti_Heinola |
Yeah that's not great, but my point is that he's not a lazy player - it's a description I absolutely hate anyway - it's very rarely merited - the description itself often feels lazy to me. But I wouldn't describe him as a lazy player - he's usually perpetual motion, although Millwall apart he's had a poor start to this season.
I don't think anyone expects players to become 'brilliant; under a new manager, but last season, however poorly we played, you could tell the players were playing for Ollie and Birch. That already seems to have been eroded this season, for whatever reason. Having said that, we're playing no worse than we were about 8 or 9 months ago durng another losing run, which culminated in the utter embarrassment against Forest. Had Ollie gone then, very few would have complained. There are no easy answers. And look at Leeds - transformed with almost no new signings by a brilliant coach. It can happen. |
But how many brilliant coaches want to join a team facing a relegation battle, a couple of months into the season and unable to make any signings in January?
It seems far more likely that we'd end up with someone like Mick McCarthy or Tim Sherwood which all seems a bit pointless unless we're approaching December and look in real danger of relegation. | | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 11:06 - Oct 2 with 1028 views | ozexile |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 10:41 - Oct 2 by simmo |
The more it goes on the more I think that 7-1 really killed us and we can't recover from it without massive change. We spent a whole pre-season talking about possession football, splitting the CB's, playing the 4-2-3-1 that McClaren favoured. We persisted with all of that through our worst start which culminated in us getting absolutely bummed to death at West Brom and in the panic, McClaren blamed the lack of both quality and experience and completely changed things, with the clubs blessing.
He's now persisting with a new way of killing us with a system, formation and way of playing that he hasn't used before and doesn't understand. It doesn't get the best out of the players we have, it's leaking goals while not creating chances to score, let alone get goals required to outscore teams. There's a lack of work rate/tenacity and nearly all of the fundementals we saw week in week out with Holloways team, regardless of results, are gone. Along with a lot of the younger players that were providing a strong connection with the fans and the 'old QPR' many of us were looking for pre-Premier League.
When you mix all of that in with a set of continued interviews referencing the performances that better meet the agenda of wanting to keep your job and abdicate responsibility rather than reality (something that's never wise with most fans, let alone those as streetwise as QPR supporters who even in the last 10 years have seen and lived through every trick in the book), it creates an environment where something HAS to change. |
I still think that 4-2-3-1 is best for us. Just hit every goal kick long. Simple. | | | |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 11:25 - Oct 2 with 988 views | simmo |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 11:06 - Oct 2 by ozexile |
I still think that 4-2-3-1 is best for us. Just hit every goal kick long. Simple. |
Been saying it for a while and of course not everything is as easy as change the formation = see us become great. But you have to start addressing the main issues in the team and working on solutions, starting with the system. Of course I am but a layman but to me the main problems seem quite obvious...
- The CB's are slow and not especially good, so you need a 3 man midfield ideally so at least 1 can sit a bit deeper and offer protection inbetween the lines but without that causing the whole team to drop too deep. 2 in midfield doesn't work at all.
- Our best player is Eze, possibly Freeman, so choose a system that plays to their strengths and limits their responsibility to do what they're not so good at, namely being a defensive winger... They still need to work hard when not in possession, but there's no point Eze being in his own penalty area at any point, so don't ask him to be there too often / if at all.
- The full backs are decent and solid in defence but not especially quick or good going forward, so make their primary remit defending, winning their battles in their own half and only supporting attacks when they have the confidence that someone is ready to cover/fill in, preferably that screening DM
- Get a striker that can play on the shoulder and work the channels, Wells showed against Millwall that because he was willing to drift wide and collect the ball, it created space centrally for the likes of Eze and Freeman to move into, which also suits their natural inclinations to drift inside
At the moment we have strikers that aren't being serviced, creators that are stuck out wide defending, CM's that aren't particularly well suited to a 2 and CB's/FB's that drown when too isloated. Something like a 4-2-3-1 doesn't solve all of those issues completely, but it will definitely mitigate them and get the best out of the 3-4 players that might be able to win us a game. It's also the system that McClaren understands best and we've wanted to play for the last few seasons but didn't have the strikers for, now we definitely do. [Post edited 2 Oct 2018 11:35]
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| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 11:33 - Oct 2 with 969 views | ozexile |
| Do we really expect Steve to get the bullet? on 11:25 - Oct 2 by simmo |
Been saying it for a while and of course not everything is as easy as change the formation = see us become great. But you have to start addressing the main issues in the team and working on solutions, starting with the system. Of course I am but a layman but to me the main problems seem quite obvious...
- The CB's are slow and not especially good, so you need a 3 man midfield ideally so at least 1 can sit a bit deeper and offer protection inbetween the lines but without that causing the whole team to drop too deep. 2 in midfield doesn't work at all.
- Our best player is Eze, possibly Freeman, so choose a system that plays to their strengths and limits their responsibility to do what they're not so good at, namely being a defensive winger... They still need to work hard when not in possession, but there's no point Eze being in his own penalty area at any point, so don't ask him to be there too often / if at all.
- The full backs are decent and solid in defence but not especially quick or good going forward, so make their primary remit defending, winning their battles in their own half and only supporting attacks when they have the confidence that someone is ready to cover/fill in, preferably that screening DM
- Get a striker that can play on the shoulder and work the channels, Wells showed against Millwall that because he was willing to drift wide and collect the ball, it created space centrally for the likes of Eze and Freeman to move into, which also suits their natural inclinations to drift inside
At the moment we have strikers that aren't being serviced, creators that are stuck out wide defending, CM's that aren't particularly well suited to a 2 and CB's/FB's that drown when too isloated. Something like a 4-2-3-1 doesn't solve all of those issues completely, but it will definitely mitigate them and get the best out of the 3-4 players that might be able to win us a game. It's also the system that McClaren understands best and we've wanted to play for the last few seasons but didn't have the strikers for, now we definitely do. [Post edited 2 Oct 2018 11:35]
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Agree with all of that. Plus it will stop what happened v Norwich where we were totally outnumbered in midfield and they passed it at will in their little triangles. | | | |
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