| Accounts 23:34 - Feb 11 with 17616 views | leedsdale |
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| Accounts on 23:13 - Feb 12 with 2503 views | Sandyman |
It needs to be mentioned that RAFC have submitted their accounts to Companies House BEFORE they date they were required to. How many clubs are filing accounts late, or in one now non-existent case, (who always filed their accounts many months late) not at all?
Credit is due for being on time. [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 0:20]
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| Accounts on 00:47 - Feb 13 with 2400 views | Sandyman |
Maybe the Matheson deal, TV games v Boston and NUFC, and money earned from the NUFC and MUFC games will be able to plug any gaps in the finances when the 2019/2020 accounts are prepared at the end of May? Which could put us back into a more balanced financial position? Not a sustainable methodology but these bonuses, used responsibly, will help. A clear out of the overpaid non-productive players during the Summer will help the wage bill as well. Hill clearly wasted the 30% increase in wage bill he was given and that and his warranted dismissal has cost us dear in financial terms. For all the good he did this club, his mistakes are costing us dear now.
Not pressing the panic button yet but it's great to see that fans are taking a forensic concern over club finances and asking the right questions, rather than the "enjoy the ride cry after" approach we know only too well from our ex-rivals. Keep up the good work.
Yes, the pitch issue needs addressing but the previous "experts" and companies who were PAID to sort it need to be challenged to take responsibility and take action for it's lack of suitability as well. They have let us down big time. | | | |
| Accounts on 02:50 - Feb 13 with 2374 views | pioneer |
| Accounts on 00:47 - Feb 13 by Sandyman |
Maybe the Matheson deal, TV games v Boston and NUFC, and money earned from the NUFC and MUFC games will be able to plug any gaps in the finances when the 2019/2020 accounts are prepared at the end of May? Which could put us back into a more balanced financial position? Not a sustainable methodology but these bonuses, used responsibly, will help. A clear out of the overpaid non-productive players during the Summer will help the wage bill as well. Hill clearly wasted the 30% increase in wage bill he was given and that and his warranted dismissal has cost us dear in financial terms. For all the good he did this club, his mistakes are costing us dear now.
Not pressing the panic button yet but it's great to see that fans are taking a forensic concern over club finances and asking the right questions, rather than the "enjoy the ride cry after" approach we know only too well from our ex-rivals. Keep up the good work.
Yes, the pitch issue needs addressing but the previous "experts" and companies who were PAID to sort it need to be challenged to take responsibility and take action for it's lack of suitability as well. They have let us down big time. |
I am no accountant so not claiming any expertise on this, but in tne same way incoming transfers are viewed as out of the ordinary since there is no regularity or constancy to them the pay off for Hill-Beech was an out of the ordinary cost.
If we take that out of the picture going forward as well as the extrordinary increase in wage bill to give old timers multi year deals would that make the picture sustainable going forward? |  | | |
| Accounts on 06:19 - Feb 13 with 2334 views | Newbury_Dale |
If we take the Hill payout out of the equation then the figures are about on- par with usual are they not ? | | | |
| Accounts on 06:33 - Feb 13 with 2320 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Accounts on 02:50 - Feb 13 by pioneer |
I am no accountant so not claiming any expertise on this, but in tne same way incoming transfers are viewed as out of the ordinary since there is no regularity or constancy to them the pay off for Hill-Beech was an out of the ordinary cost.
If we take that out of the picture going forward as well as the extrordinary increase in wage bill to give old timers multi year deals would that make the picture sustainable going forward? |
That’s a good way too look at it:
If you take something like gate receipts the trend is
2016/17: £942,547
2017/18: £1,008,962
2018/19: £826.099
All season in league 1 but there will be a varying number of games each year, including cup competitions.
Gate receipts last season down 19% on the year before and 13% on the 2016/17 season.
For 2019/20 we put the prices for the floating fan up. This points to season ticket hikes coming in the Summer.
It would be really interesting to compare those three numbers against aggregate home attendances in the same seasons. |  |
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| Accounts (n/t) on 07:18 - Feb 13 with 2279 views | DaleiLama |
| Accounts on 06:33 - Feb 13 by RAFCBLUE |
That’s a good way too look at it:
If you take something like gate receipts the trend is
2016/17: £942,547
2017/18: £1,008,962
2018/19: £826.099
All season in league 1 but there will be a varying number of games each year, including cup competitions.
Gate receipts last season down 19% on the year before and 13% on the 2016/17 season.
For 2019/20 we put the prices for the floating fan up. This points to season ticket hikes coming in the Summer.
It would be really interesting to compare those three numbers against aggregate home attendances in the same seasons. |
[Post edited 13 Feb 2020 7:21]
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| Accounts on 08:47 - Feb 13 with 2191 views | Dalenet |
| Accounts on 06:33 - Feb 13 by RAFCBLUE |
That’s a good way too look at it:
If you take something like gate receipts the trend is
2016/17: £942,547
2017/18: £1,008,962
2018/19: £826.099
All season in league 1 but there will be a varying number of games each year, including cup competitions.
Gate receipts last season down 19% on the year before and 13% on the 2016/17 season.
For 2019/20 we put the prices for the floating fan up. This points to season ticket hikes coming in the Summer.
It would be really interesting to compare those three numbers against aggregate home attendances in the same seasons. |
I am not sure our gate receipts will be much better this year given we didn't play bury. One less game and I am sure our CEO mentioned that the loss of that game had cost us £40k.
I think it is inevitable that season ticket prices will rise - but if they use a sledgehammer than they should expect sales to fall. | | | |
| Accounts on 08:58 - Feb 13 with 2176 views | James1980 |
What were the season ticket prices for the 16/17 season? | |
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| Accounts on 09:29 - Feb 13 with 2130 views | dawlishdale |
| Accounts on 20:27 - Feb 12 by Cleedale |
Re-your last question Platty here's some 'slightly' out-of-date figures as the amounts have (I think) increased since then. These figures were for each year and I believe were for a 3 season period that ended 2018/19? Btw., this is just copied from an EFL email from them in reply to similar questions. Also, think there is the (circa) £180,000 youth payment on top of this for each year. The total for each club in L1 is around the £1.5m mark :-
"In terms of overall financial distributions, all League clubs receive a share of what is called 'basic award' which encompasses broadcasting revenue, which for the current 16/17 season is as follows:
Basic Award (per club - '000)
Championship - 2,034m
League 1 - 702k
League 2 - 472k
Each club receives the same amount. There are no ladder payments depending on where clubs finish. However in addition, the EFL and Premier League have a separate agreement with regards to solidarity payments. Currently all clubs in the EFL therefore also receive a share of the solidarity money as follows:
Solidarity (per club - '000)
Championship - 4.3m
League 1 - 645k
League 2 - 430k |
There are some extremely valid points in this post, and I urge all to read it again.
Should we be relegated (this season, next, or whenever) we stand to lose approaching £500k just from the awards and solidarity payments.
Add to this
Lower season ticket sales
Much lower away support
lower sponsorship
You are looking at a reduction in overall income of at least £1m per season.
This is why Hill was not to be trusted with the increase afforded to him, and why it was essential to cut costs.
On the other hand; it's also why we absolutely must be seen to do everything in our power to remain in L1, whilst playing a brand of football that is exciting to watch.
Difficult times.
I fully expect a moderate increase in the price of Season Tickets. An additional £50 for all areas of the ground would not be excessive, but anything more than this would probably see sales decline significantly. | | | |
| Accounts on 10:28 - Feb 13 with 2041 views | judd |
| Accounts on 06:33 - Feb 13 by RAFCBLUE |
That’s a good way too look at it:
If you take something like gate receipts the trend is
2016/17: £942,547
2017/18: £1,008,962
2018/19: £826.099
All season in league 1 but there will be a varying number of games each year, including cup competitions.
Gate receipts last season down 19% on the year before and 13% on the 2016/17 season.
For 2019/20 we put the prices for the floating fan up. This points to season ticket hikes coming in the Summer.
It would be really interesting to compare those three numbers against aggregate home attendances in the same seasons. |
League attendances:
2016/17 total 82,146 - home fans 60,883 away fans 21,263 (25.9%)
2017/18 total - 80,123 - home fans 60,510 away fans 19,613 (24.5%)
2018/19 total - 82,207 - home fans 63,964 away fans 18,243 (22.2%) |  |
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| Accounts on 10:38 - Feb 13 with 2015 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| Accounts on 08:47 - Feb 13 by Dalenet |
I am not sure our gate receipts will be much better this year given we didn't play bury. One less game and I am sure our CEO mentioned that the loss of that game had cost us £40k.
I think it is inevitable that season ticket prices will rise - but if they use a sledgehammer than they should expect sales to fall. |
I’m not sure if this is correct but wasn’t the EFL payment due to bury going to be shared out among the other lg 1 clubs to partly mitigate the loss of that game? |  | | |
| Accounts on 11:13 - Feb 13 with 1960 views | Dalenet |
| Accounts on 10:38 - Feb 13 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
I’m not sure if this is correct but wasn’t the EFL payment due to bury going to be shared out among the other lg 1 clubs to partly mitigate the loss of that game? |
That would make sense and I hadn't spotted that. May explain why some clubs like Oxford have been doing something to compensate season ticket holders for the loss of the game.
My plea is that we don't add £50+ to the season ticket price because it will bite us on the bum | | | |
| Accounts on 12:00 - Feb 13 with 1894 views | James1980 |
What are the chances they will revert to the 16/17 prices | |
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| Accounts on 12:16 - Feb 13 with 1862 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| Accounts on 12:00 - Feb 13 by James1980 |
What are the chances they will revert to the 16/17 prices |
Bloody hell James!! I’d forgotten just how much they were charging for late comers back then! I started a thread off in dec about ST prices for next season, naively thought that a price hike would just get the figures back to where they would have been if the club hadn’t implemented their discounts.
Beginning to think they’ll struggle to sell at £300 plus, if we were top 10 & playing free flowing football then maybe but not at the moment, even with the latest accounts... | | | |
| Accounts on 13:06 - Feb 13 with 1761 views | boromat |
| Accounts on 20:27 - Feb 12 by Cleedale |
Re-your last question Platty here's some 'slightly' out-of-date figures as the amounts have (I think) increased since then. These figures were for each year and I believe were for a 3 season period that ended 2018/19? Btw., this is just copied from an EFL email from them in reply to similar questions. Also, think there is the (circa) £180,000 youth payment on top of this for each year. The total for each club in L1 is around the £1.5m mark :-
"In terms of overall financial distributions, all League clubs receive a share of what is called 'basic award' which encompasses broadcasting revenue, which for the current 16/17 season is as follows:
Basic Award (per club - '000)
Championship - 2,034m
League 1 - 702k
League 2 - 472k
Each club receives the same amount. There are no ladder payments depending on where clubs finish. However in addition, the EFL and Premier League have a separate agreement with regards to solidarity payments. Currently all clubs in the EFL therefore also receive a share of the solidarity money as follows:
Solidarity (per club - '000)
Championship - 4.3m
League 1 - 645k
League 2 - 430k |
The difference in % share of Basic Award and Solidarity seems very unfair. Anyone know the reasoning? The solidarity pot of money is much larger but League One and Two get more from the basic 
Basic Award total = 3,208,000
Championship = 63%
League One = 22%
League Two = 15%
However
Solidarity Total = 5,375,000
Championship = 80%
League One = 12%
League Two = 8% | |
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| Accounts on 13:14 - Feb 13 with 1738 views | James1980 |
| Accounts on 12:16 - Feb 13 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Bloody hell James!! I’d forgotten just how much they were charging for late comers back then! I started a thread off in dec about ST prices for next season, naively thought that a price hike would just get the figures back to where they would have been if the club hadn’t implemented their discounts.
Beginning to think they’ll struggle to sell at £300 plus, if we were top 10 & playing free flowing football then maybe but not at the moment, even with the latest accounts... |
The board could say prices frozen at /rolled back to 16/17 season levels. | |
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| Accounts on 13:28 - Feb 13 with 1703 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| Accounts on 13:14 - Feb 13 by James1980 |
The board could say prices frozen at /rolled back to 16/17 season levels. |
They could do but I don’t think it would wash with much of the support base. The board have set themselves a bit of a dilemma by trying out the new low price ST’s for a couple of seasons. It was a good idea but I don’t think there was the take up the club expected & added to that fans who have bought them have become accustomed to paying the new lower prices!
The core support will probably always stump up the money but we need much more than that to get the accounts back in a healthy position. Should be an interesting forum next week! | | | |
| Accounts on 14:00 - Feb 13 with 1643 views | James1980 |
| Accounts on 13:28 - Feb 13 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
They could do but I don’t think it would wash with much of the support base. The board have set themselves a bit of a dilemma by trying out the new low price ST’s for a couple of seasons. It was a good idea but I don’t think there was the take up the club expected & added to that fans who have bought them have become accustomed to paying the new lower prices!
The core support will probably always stump up the money but we need much more than that to get the accounts back in a healthy position. Should be an interesting forum next week! |
Be interesting to know how many new adult season ticket holders were signed up in the 17/18 18/19 & 19/20 seasons | |
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| Accounts on 14:03 - Feb 13 with 1637 views | Dalenet |
| Accounts on 13:14 - Feb 13 by James1980 |
The board could say prices frozen at /rolled back to 16/17 season levels. |
They could. But we sold about 1000 less tickets then. I seem to recall that main stand was £375. I don't think it is worth that right now. | | | |
| Accounts on 14:38 - Feb 13 with 1569 views | TipperaryDale |
Is anyone really shocked by these accounts? It's well established that we made a loss last year, but that should have been mitigated by the previous season's profit and the (likely) profit we will make this year.
By my reckoning this year on our "plus" column, we have the Matheson money (£1m), the Dawson money (~£600k was it?) [due to us but not going to be released yet by Watford due to their agreement with WBA - not an accountant, but will this appear in 19/20 accounts?], the Man Utd money, the Newcastle money, plus money for being on BT against Boston (not likely to be lots, but hey ho). Our "minus" column is likely to have decreased from the previous season due to a reduced playing budget, plus not having to pay-off Hill/Beech and not having to do remedial pitch work (fingers crossed...). I'm guessing that most other figures would remain the same, so we should be in a decent profit after all that. We still have £400k in the bank, plus the stadium. We had neither a few years ago.
Hilly led us to a horrible year and he paid for it with his job. Or rather, we paid for it. By the looks of it, the board have now been more ruthless and are cutting our cloth accordingly.
For those who say "we need to invest" - we tried that with Hill. It didn't work. We had a bash at trying to get up the table and possible promotion through increasing the team's budget.
It's not all roses, but to my eyes it looks like we are doing things the right way, and our future is not under threat unlike a great number of other teams. |  | | |
| Accounts on 14:50 - Feb 13 with 1535 views | AtThePeake |
| Accounts on 14:38 - Feb 13 by TipperaryDale |
Is anyone really shocked by these accounts? It's well established that we made a loss last year, but that should have been mitigated by the previous season's profit and the (likely) profit we will make this year.
By my reckoning this year on our "plus" column, we have the Matheson money (£1m), the Dawson money (~£600k was it?) [due to us but not going to be released yet by Watford due to their agreement with WBA - not an accountant, but will this appear in 19/20 accounts?], the Man Utd money, the Newcastle money, plus money for being on BT against Boston (not likely to be lots, but hey ho). Our "minus" column is likely to have decreased from the previous season due to a reduced playing budget, plus not having to pay-off Hill/Beech and not having to do remedial pitch work (fingers crossed...). I'm guessing that most other figures would remain the same, so we should be in a decent profit after all that. We still have £400k in the bank, plus the stadium. We had neither a few years ago.
Hilly led us to a horrible year and he paid for it with his job. Or rather, we paid for it. By the looks of it, the board have now been more ruthless and are cutting our cloth accordingly.
For those who say "we need to invest" - we tried that with Hill. It didn't work. We had a bash at trying to get up the table and possible promotion through increasing the team's budget.
It's not all roses, but to my eyes it looks like we are doing things the right way, and our future is not under threat unlike a great number of other teams. |
Adshead also. |  |
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| Accounts on 15:08 - Feb 13 with 1489 views | 442Dale |
| Accounts on 13:28 - Feb 13 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
They could do but I don’t think it would wash with much of the support base. The board have set themselves a bit of a dilemma by trying out the new low price ST’s for a couple of seasons. It was a good idea but I don’t think there was the take up the club expected & added to that fans who have bought them have become accustomed to paying the new lower prices!
The core support will probably always stump up the money but we need much more than that to get the accounts back in a healthy position. Should be an interesting forum next week! |
Worth remembering that these figures around gate receipts were for 18/19, the club would have had an idea ahead of the decision to keep this season’s season tickets at the same prices. Many would have accepted a slight rise I think, as we should now. |  |
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| Accounts on 15:17 - Feb 13 with 1473 views | 49thseason |
| Accounts on 14:03 - Feb 13 by Dalenet |
They could. But we sold about 1000 less tickets then. I seem to recall that main stand was £375. I don't think it is worth that right now. |
Im not sure we have ever really got to grips with ticket pricing. 5000 empty seats per game seems to point to that. Charging £17 -20 quid for on the day walk-ups vs a cost of £6.50 per game for a Sandy Lane season ticket seems silly too.
This cost could be made more acceptable by offering money off vouchers for subsequent matches at them turnstile. If you could attract 200 more pay on the day purchases for an average of £10 each to each league game you would raise £46k, enough to pay for someone to create and implement more ticket strategies to attract even more supporters. If the walk up supporters could be offered a deal on books of 5 or 6 game tickets they might become season ticket holders without too much persuasion. |  | | |
| Accounts on 19:09 - Feb 13 with 1317 views | rochedale |
I wonder after seeing these figures, certain people will, more so on the Facebook pages, stop insisting that we invest heavily in the squad due to being loaded! |  |
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