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I was born and raised in this country as were several generations of my family. My fathers side of the family had dark hair and dark skin. None of us could be described as white. We are of Northern European origin but look Mediterranean. I share a job with someone who is just as British as me but she has even darker hair and skin and looks like she is a Cypriot. He skin tone is light brown. My skin tone has been described as olive. Neither of us could be described as white. If anything we are both “coloured”. There are plenty of “black” British people. Perhaps we should stop describing people by their skin tones?
I was born and raised in this country as were several generations of my family. My fathers side of the family had dark hair and dark skin. None of us could be described as white. We are of Northern European origin but look Mediterranean. I share a job with someone who is just as British as me but she has even darker hair and skin and looks like she is a Cypriot. He skin tone is light brown. My skin tone has been described as olive. Neither of us could be described as white. If anything we are both “coloured”. There are plenty of “black” British people. Perhaps we should stop describing people by their skin tones?
I think the bottom line is is this bloke racist and should he lose his job? To me he just seems of that older generation who haven’t caught up with what you can or cannot say, but he has been working to kick racism out of football and he doesn’t strike me as a racist. He needs to be educated, not relieved of his duties.
Reading his comments again and some previous remarks, it does look like, for someone in his position, he is out of touch with the modern world. I’m surprised that no one sat him down a while back and explained what is and what isn’t acceptable.
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 11:26]
Exactly why there is systemic racism Completely out of touch and yes he should be educated but that should happen and be proved before people like him are put in a power position I am sure he didn't 'mean' it but you just cannot say that sort of thing these days, when so many before have been castigated or fired for similar comments why would he think its ok to say it?
Exactly why there is systemic racism Completely out of touch and yes he should be educated but that should happen and be proved before people like him are put in a power position I am sure he didn't 'mean' it but you just cannot say that sort of thing these days, when so many before have been castigated or fired for similar comments why would he think its ok to say it?
He's not completely out of touch. He hasn't used the N word or the P word, he's said ' coloured' when ' people of colour' is supposed to be acceptable and ' South Asian' and ' Afro - Carribbean'. If you are not white 22, then tell us how you would like to be referred to and what is acceptable? It's disgraceful he's been hounded out of his job by the PC pack, and this will only serve to harden attitudes. He should have been cautioned and advised.
He's not completely out of touch. He hasn't used the N word or the P word, he's said ' coloured' when ' people of colour' is supposed to be acceptable and ' South Asian' and ' Afro - Carribbean'. If you are not white 22, then tell us how you would like to be referred to and what is acceptable? It's disgraceful he's been hounded out of his job by the PC pack, and this will only serve to harden attitudes. He should have been cautioned and advised.
Yes we know there is good and bad in every race but its how you refer to those races good or bad that needs to be questioned I suppose at least there is a dialogue now, even if some still find it perplexing Do you think I am a caucasian btw? Just asking like
1) It's also about his supposed homophobic and misogynist comments as well. To be fair for the latter he was quoting some one else but describing being gay as "a lifestyle choice" is probably offensive; 2) The coloured vs people of colour comment is more nuanced. The term coloured has some very negative connotations from recent history in both South Africa and the Southern states of the USA. So I understand why this needed to be pointed out but I don't get the faux outrage.
Even so, I feel that although he managed, I believe inadvertently, to disparage three groups of people, some re-education and contrition would have been better.
Whether he should have resigned because the FA are crap is a whole different story.
I do have another question for those that make a big deal about racism (or any other isms for that matter) - what do you actually DO to make a difference?
1) It's also about his supposed homophobic and misogynist comments as well. To be fair for the latter he was quoting some one else but describing being gay as "a lifestyle choice" is probably offensive; 2) The coloured vs people of colour comment is more nuanced. The term coloured has some very negative connotations from recent history in both South Africa and the Southern states of the USA. So I understand why this needed to be pointed out but I don't get the faux outrage.
Even so, I feel that although he managed, I believe inadvertently, to disparage three groups of people, some re-education and contrition would have been better.
Whether he should have resigned because the FA are crap is a whole different story.
I do have another question for those that make a big deal about racism (or any other isms for that matter) - what do you actually DO to make a difference?
how strange here, an intelligent measured reply, well done and good points made I am not saying he should have been sacked but he damn well should have known better than to use such language and terms, equally about sexuality as well The less people like that in positions of power the sooner things will look a little brighter for certain people
It is all very simple, he is a middle class white racist, typical of those running the FA and large parts of The Establishment.
Pretty sure what he said would have broken some Racial Equality legislation so he should be arrested and charged for racism and for being a middle class white bigot.
It looks like his comment about gay footballers and a “life choice” was directed at the choice of coming out or not rather than being gay being a life choice.
I think it just reflects what a bunch of dinosaurs are in charge of football.
Understandable or not, any head of a major company or organisation should know that you can’t say that any more. (And this isn’t new - just watch Ocean’s Eleven if in doubt: that was made nearly 20 years ago!).
Some of these linguistic distinctions might seem arbitrary, but there you go, it doesn’t take a lot of effort to learn them.
It is all very simple, he is a middle class white racist, typical of those running the FA and large parts of The Establishment.
Pretty sure what he said would have broken some Racial Equality legislation so he should be arrested and charged for racism and for being a middle class white bigot.
What annoys me the most is that in a few years time, it'll be wrong to call someone "black"... and then we'll all have to learn what the (next) newly correct term is all over again.
What annoys me the most is that in a few years time, it'll be wrong to call someone "black"... and then we'll all have to learn what the (next) newly correct term is all over again.
Unlikely, but if it does, so what? Language use changes over time. It's normal and no big deal.
To me it only becomes a big deal when one group in society makes it clear that they don't want to be referred to in a certain way and others respond by saying that they have a 'right' to refer to them however they like.
Unlikely, but if it does, so what? Language use changes over time. It's normal and no big deal.
To me it only becomes a big deal when one group in society makes it clear that they don't want to be referred to in a certain way and others respond by saying that they have a 'right' to refer to them however they like.
I reckon there’s a growing number of people who are sick of being grouped by colour at all. If the aim is to bring different races together, separation and categorisation just creates a more obvious divide. In kids especially.
I reckon there’s a growing number of people who are sick of being grouped by colour at all. If the aim is to bring different races together, separation and categorisation just creates a more obvious divide. In kids especially.
I agree. The world gets smaller every year as more and more areas become part of the global village. Being labelled by skin tone, religion, whatever becomes less relevant as boundaries disappear through cyber connections. The sooner we stop defining people by colour the better.
Unlikely, but if it does, so what? Language use changes over time. It's normal and no big deal.
To me it only becomes a big deal when one group in society makes it clear that they don't want to be referred to in a certain way and others respond by saying that they have a 'right' to refer to them however they like.
I reckon there’s a growing number of people who are sick of being grouped by colour at all. If the aim is to bring different races together, separation and categorisation just creates a more obvious divide. In kids especially.
Naive to think that we just make racism go away by simply by pretending that there are no differences between people.
The trick is to recognise and acknowledge the differences while celebrating them and working hard to not allow our inbuilt prejudices about people who aren't like us, to alter the way we treat each other.
Naive to think that we just make racism go away by simply by pretending that there are no differences between people.
The trick is to recognise and acknowledge the differences while celebrating them and working hard to not allow our inbuilt prejudices about people who aren't like us, to alter the way we treat each other.
What differences do we need to recognise? I know Dorset has a very white population but whenever I’ve lived or worked in big diverse cities people just tend to get along without making points about each other’s skin colours. And kids don’t care either. Now with so much of it being thrown at people kids notice it more and more, like in the USA where they seem like they’re on the verge of total division.
Unlikely, but if it does, so what? Language use changes over time. It's normal and no big deal.
To me it only becomes a big deal when one group in society makes it clear that they don't want to be referred to in a certain way and others respond by saying that they have a 'right' to refer to them however they like.
When they ( who actually decides , it's usually a trend from America no doubt ) do decide shouldn't we have a transition period as it will take time for the new non-offensive term to circulate in the population others wise you could be a non racist one day and the next you are.
Also how does this work in France , Germany or other non English speaking countries ? Can the phrases be easily translated or is racism country specific ?
An easy way to increase the racist in a country would be to keep changing the definition as usually the older generation will find it hard to keep up and then we can really castigate ourselves as a country.
I think I've worked out something about the situation in the USA Trump, as he tells us, is an extremely intelligent person. These sorts of people often miss issues in popular culture as they have their heads down in the latest macro economic or philosophical tome. As a result, I think he may have misunderstood "orange is the new black".
As a result, I think we need a new movement - OLM.
What differences do we need to recognise? I know Dorset has a very white population but whenever I’ve lived or worked in big diverse cities people just tend to get along without making points about each other’s skin colours. And kids don’t care either. Now with so much of it being thrown at people kids notice it more and more, like in the USA where they seem like they’re on the verge of total division.
Mainly differences in history, culture, tradition, but sometimes also religion, and sometimes physiological differences too.
Do you think that Jewish people should be allowed to refer to the fact that historically they have been the subject of enormous persecution, that they observe lots traditions unique to them (including around food), that some of them adopt a very unusual dress code?
Or should do all these things cause anti-semitism, so should be discouraged?
When they ( who actually decides , it's usually a trend from America no doubt ) do decide shouldn't we have a transition period as it will take time for the new non-offensive term to circulate in the population others wise you could be a non racist one day and the next you are.
Also how does this work in France , Germany or other non English speaking countries ? Can the phrases be easily translated or is racism country specific ?
An easy way to increase the racist in a country would be to keep changing the definition as usually the older generation will find it hard to keep up and then we can really castigate ourselves as a country.
Language changes organically over time and not in any particularly logical way. You just have to keep up, if you can.
And hearing well meaning people of a different generation referred to 'coloured' or 'half-caste' people is not the same as the head of football association using such an anachronistic term.
Language changes organically over time and not in any particularly logical way. You just have to keep up, if you can.
And hearing well meaning people of a different generation referred to 'coloured' or 'half-caste' people is not the same as the head of football association using such an anachronistic term.
I agree mate and there are certain words , terms and symbols that are globally recognised . I for one heard that statement fro me FA guy and didn't hear anything wrong I thought. However it seems I'm , and my wife , is out of touch and we ain't that old.
I'm just saying it's not helping any cause when your target audience does not have a clue about what they should be saying , but saying that these terms are not used in an average persons daily life so instead of raising racial inequality it's seems to have caused more debate about PC correctness.
I've already forgotten what he said and what he should of said , I will still call my mate .....Lee.
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