| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" 09:56 - Nov 18 with 25935 views | sP7qupUf |
Is this a genuine attempt to address pressing issues or a smokescreen to detract away from the ongoing issues with the C-19 pandemic, emerging issues around cronyism and the potential disaster with the "oven ready" Brexit deal? The lack of detail would suggest the latter to my mind. |  | | |  |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 10:03 - Nov 18 with 8621 views | onehunglow |
Its cfap.
It's good to have a idea but let' see the road map.
2030? All Electric?  | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 10:07 - Nov 18 with 8618 views | britferry |
Heard this today:
It is part of what Mr Johnson calls a "green industrial revolution" to tackle climate change and create jobs in industries such as nuclear energy.
Critics of the plan say the £4bn allocated is far too small for the scale of the challenge.
The total amount of new money announced in the package is a 25th of the projected £100bn cost of high-speed rail, HS2. | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 10:50 - Nov 18 with 8602 views | Boundy |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 10:07 - Nov 18 by britferry |
Heard this today:
It is part of what Mr Johnson calls a "green industrial revolution" to tackle climate change and create jobs in industries such as nuclear energy.
Critics of the plan say the £4bn allocated is far too small for the scale of the challenge.
The total amount of new money announced in the package is a 25th of the projected £100bn cost of high-speed rail, HS2. |
All that money (current predicted current figures at £106bn) being spent on the HS2 project is a national disgrace imo.is it needed and could the money be better spent No & Yes | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:01 - Nov 18 with 8595 views | Catullus |
HS2 at 106 billion and counting, how can he deliver a fully national project starting with 4 billion?
What Bojo is promising could easily be half a trillion, and if the planners say half a trillion it's probably going to cost in excess of 750 billion. We'd also be looking at things that would take decades to deliver so unless all politcal sides agreed on it, it won't happen. Nojo could start this only for Stermer to win the next GE and change it or even cancel it.
This kind of plan needs to be above politics, if all sides needs to come together on brexit then they need to on this also. | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:24 - Nov 18 with 8590 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Johnson is merely following the rest of the world's leaders in moving towards the "Great Reset", "grasping the opportunity provided by the COVID pandemic" as they say.
He and the majority of talking heads are totally clueless as to what is actually involved to bring about their green dreams.
The general public have much more idea than the politicians, just read any comments on MSM articles about it. | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:25 - Nov 18 with 8587 views | Catullus |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:24 - Nov 18 by A_Fans_Dad |
Johnson is merely following the rest of the world's leaders in moving towards the "Great Reset", "grasping the opportunity provided by the COVID pandemic" as they say.
He and the majority of talking heads are totally clueless as to what is actually involved to bring about their green dreams.
The general public have much more idea than the politicians, just read any comments on MSM articles about it. |
I thought those that read the MSM were all brainwashed fools? | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:39 - Nov 18 with 8581 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:25 - Nov 18 by Catullus |
I thought those that read the MSM were all brainwashed fools? |
There you go, reading in to what I write what you want, you are generalising.
I say that those people that "believe" what the MSM writes without checking it are brainwashed.
Not the ones that disagree with the content of the article.
ps I suggest you read this article in the DM and the comments, sometimes the DM does print contrary stuff.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8959477/Boris-Johnson-announce-2030-ban [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 11:44]
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:50 - Nov 18 with 8563 views | Scotia |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:39 - Nov 18 by A_Fans_Dad |
There you go, reading in to what I write what you want, you are generalising.
I say that those people that "believe" what the MSM writes without checking it are brainwashed.
Not the ones that disagree with the content of the article.
ps I suggest you read this article in the DM and the comments, sometimes the DM does print contrary stuff.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8959477/Boris-Johnson-announce-2030-ban [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 11:44]
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The ones that tend to disagree are just fools brainwashed by a different source.
My take on his green revolution is that it is going to be incredibly difficult and expensive to achieve in it's entirety. Probably the easiest and most cost effective part over the longer term will be renewable energy
We're a little ahead of his game in Wales with the Environment and Wellbeing act but we already see a huge amount of resistance to them from developers. | | | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 12:03 - Nov 18 with 8556 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:50 - Nov 18 by Scotia |
The ones that tend to disagree are just fools brainwashed by a different source.
My take on his green revolution is that it is going to be incredibly difficult and expensive to achieve in it's entirety. Probably the easiest and most cost effective part over the longer term will be renewable energy
We're a little ahead of his game in Wales with the Environment and Wellbeing act but we already see a huge amount of resistance to them from developers. |
I see, so those people that disagree, who have done the calculations and looked at the practicallities are brainwashed.
OK. | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 16:06 - Nov 18 with 8537 views | Scotia |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 12:03 - Nov 18 by A_Fans_Dad |
I see, so those people that disagree, who have done the calculations and looked at the practicallities are brainwashed.
OK. |
In my experience those that "have done the calculations" and disagree with peer reviewed science that reaches major media outlets haven't really understood what they are calculating, or are not calculating objectively. They often think they are doing both.
They tend to be very easy to disprove but often won't accept the science when presented to them in a relatively simple form.
I'd call them brainwashed. | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 18:49 - Nov 18 with 8510 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 16:06 - Nov 18 by Scotia |
In my experience those that "have done the calculations" and disagree with peer reviewed science that reaches major media outlets haven't really understood what they are calculating, or are not calculating objectively. They often think they are doing both.
They tend to be very easy to disprove but often won't accept the science when presented to them in a relatively simple form.
I'd call them brainwashed. |
That is a typical bait & switch, we are talking about simple calculations and commen sense practicallity and you bring up scientific Pal, sorry peer review.
Why don't you do the calculations yourself and present them here to convince us it will work, that we can afford it and it will actually make a difference.
How about starting with the simple requirement of the Electrical energy required to replace Fossil Fuel cars & vans with EVs.
Then explain how they are going to build the generators and build & change the infrastructure in 10 years.
That is just one small part of the overall plan.
Just so you know I have already done the calculations. | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 19:19 - Nov 18 with 8504 views | Scotia |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 18:49 - Nov 18 by A_Fans_Dad |
That is a typical bait & switch, we are talking about simple calculations and commen sense practicallity and you bring up scientific Pal, sorry peer review.
Why don't you do the calculations yourself and present them here to convince us it will work, that we can afford it and it will actually make a difference.
How about starting with the simple requirement of the Electrical energy required to replace Fossil Fuel cars & vans with EVs.
Then explain how they are going to build the generators and build & change the infrastructure in 10 years.
That is just one small part of the overall plan.
Just so you know I have already done the calculations. |
Without doing the calculations, I'm pretty certain the attempt to replace traditional fuelled new vehicles with EV's and hybrids in less than 10 years is a pipe dream.
Its completely unrealistic. | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 20:09 - Nov 18 with 8492 views | Kilkennyjack |
Hi Dom
Hi PM
I need something to distract from covid and brexit, any ideas mucker ?
Nobody ever gets criticised for saying Green stuff PM, try that ?
Really Dom ?
Really PM, the gullible will love you for it even if you dont really give a toss ...
Perfect Dom
My pleasure PM, lets keep pretending i have gone until Brexit is sorted
See you soon Classic Dom, me old china ... [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 20:09]
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 20:55 - Nov 18 with 8476 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 20:09 - Nov 18 by Kilkennyjack |
Hi Dom
Hi PM
I need something to distract from covid and brexit, any ideas mucker ?
Nobody ever gets criticised for saying Green stuff PM, try that ?
Really Dom ?
Really PM, the gullible will love you for it even if you dont really give a toss ...
Perfect Dom
My pleasure PM, lets keep pretending i have gone until Brexit is sorted
See you soon Classic Dom, me old china ... [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 20:09]
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Wrong person, it is not Dom, it is Carrie Nut nut. | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 21:07 - Nov 18 with 8475 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 20:55 - Nov 18 by A_Fans_Dad |
Wrong person, it is not Dom, it is Carrie Nut nut. |
Could well be .... 🤷â€â™‚ï¸ | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 21:30 - Nov 18 with 8465 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:50 - Nov 18 by Scotia |
The ones that tend to disagree are just fools brainwashed by a different source.
My take on his green revolution is that it is going to be incredibly difficult and expensive to achieve in it's entirety. Probably the easiest and most cost effective part over the longer term will be renewable energy
We're a little ahead of his game in Wales with the Environment and Wellbeing act but we already see a huge amount of resistance to them from developers. |
Still think that the Renewable part will be easiest and most cost effective?
Not according to the so called experts.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8961983/How-Boriss-10-point-green-indus | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 21:41 - Nov 18 with 8460 views | Catullus |
For varying reasons I (and I believe Scotia) agree that this green plan is not realistic and won't happen.
We cannot possibly get rid of fossil fuel vehicles succesfully by 2030. The timeframe is too small and the technology isn't at a level to make it possible.
So why are we arguing?
Has anyone on here sid it WILL happen? | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 21:50 - Nov 18 with 8458 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 19:19 - Nov 18 by Scotia |
Without doing the calculations, I'm pretty certain the attempt to replace traditional fuelled new vehicles with EV's and hybrids in less than 10 years is a pipe dream.
Its completely unrealistic. |
They are not aiming to replace all petrol and diesel cars by 2030. Just to stop making any more new ones. There will probably still be 10 to 15 million second hand petrol and diesel cars on the road by 2030. There might even be a rush in sales in 2028 and 2029 to beat the deadline. | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 22:17 - Nov 18 with 8447 views | Catullus |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 21:50 - Nov 18 by felixstowe_jack |
They are not aiming to replace all petrol and diesel cars by 2030. Just to stop making any more new ones. There will probably still be 10 to 15 million second hand petrol and diesel cars on the road by 2030. There might even be a rush in sales in 2028 and 2029 to beat the deadline. |
I have a question, well a few really.
1, how many "new" cars are currently sitting in storage waiting to be shipped to dealers?
2, hen will manufacturers stop aking new petrol and diesel cars? It surely has to be long before 2030?
3, Will the government price petrol and diesel out of the market to force us to go green?
4, If, in 28/29 you cannot afford to replace your petrol or diesel car but then in 2030 you cannot afford an EV, what are you supposed to do?
5, As mooted on this thread, if we absolutely all went EV in 2030 would the government load tax onto electricity to make up the shortfall in tax income? How would that then work? How do they differentiate between household and EV power or would they raise tax on ALL electricity? I think we know that answer. | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 09:28 - Nov 19 with 8420 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 22:17 - Nov 18 by Catullus |
I have a question, well a few really.
1, how many "new" cars are currently sitting in storage waiting to be shipped to dealers?
2, hen will manufacturers stop aking new petrol and diesel cars? It surely has to be long before 2030?
3, Will the government price petrol and diesel out of the market to force us to go green?
4, If, in 28/29 you cannot afford to replace your petrol or diesel car but then in 2030 you cannot afford an EV, what are you supposed to do?
5, As mooted on this thread, if we absolutely all went EV in 2030 would the government load tax onto electricity to make up the shortfall in tax income? How would that then work? How do they differentiate between household and EV power or would they raise tax on ALL electricity? I think we know that answer. |
My thoughts
1. many
2. soon
3. yes
4. walk, ride bikes and use public transport
5. Smart meters or by mileage | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 09:33 - Nov 19 with 8416 views | A_Fans_Dad |
More madness in the green new deal.
No new gas boilers in new houses in 3 years.
Only Heat pumps and "hydrogen" gas boilers.
Except in the UK experience says heat pumps are much more expensive to run than gas.
There is no "hydrogen" to use in new hydrogen boilers.
Jounson has completely lost the plot and his plans will lead to crushing poverty and deaths for the elderly, does it sound like COVID-19 to you? | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 09:39 - Nov 19 with 8412 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 09:33 - Nov 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
More madness in the green new deal.
No new gas boilers in new houses in 3 years.
Only Heat pumps and "hydrogen" gas boilers.
Except in the UK experience says heat pumps are much more expensive to run than gas.
There is no "hydrogen" to use in new hydrogen boilers.
Jounson has completely lost the plot and his plans will lead to crushing poverty and deaths for the elderly, does it sound like COVID-19 to you? |
Heat pumps are far cheaper to run than gas central heating air source hear pumps put three times more energy into house than than they use to operate the pump. Ground source heat pumps put 5 times more energy into the house than they use. Will be even more effective with new houses which will have better insulation.
The anti climate change deniers still promoting lies as facts. | |
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:37 - Nov 19 with 8407 views | Scotia |
Over the longer term yes. I think we'll see huge developments in technology over the nest 10 years to reduce cost.
Johnson is too focused on Offshore wind. As is that article. Many of the projects required to reach his targets won't even get planning consent and relevant licences by 2030 let alone actually be operational.
Other renewables have a significant role to play too. | | | |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 12:14 - Nov 19 with 8401 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 09:39 - Nov 19 by felixstowe_jack |
Heat pumps are far cheaper to run than gas central heating air source hear pumps put three times more energy into house than than they use to operate the pump. Ground source heat pumps put 5 times more energy into the house than they use. Will be even more effective with new houses which will have better insulation.
The anti climate change deniers still promoting lies as facts. |
You keep quoting the theory, how about quoting some facts based on UK experience.
First of all we have the Installation price, typical air pump costs £6000-£18000 compared to about £2500 for a good quality gas boiler.
https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/the-running-costs-of-heat-pumps
So before you start on the running costs you have an initial £3500- £15500 deficit to make up. Which in my case is a minimum of about 15 years worth of gas.
Now about the running costs.
"Whilst Heat Pumps are still not yet efficient enough to compete directly with Gas Central Heating Systems"
from
https://electricheatingcosts.com/heat-pump-running-cost/
It is actually 3 times as much, but even then it is when conditions are optimum.
The running costs are shown in this report
https://www.imsheatpumps.co.uk/blog/air-source-heat-pump-running-costs/
But note they use a unit cost of £0.13, but current average prices are £0.1386 to £0.1560.
https://www.ukpower.co.uk/home_energy/tariffs-per-unit-kwh
So for the example house requiring 12,000Kw/year you need 4000Kw of Electricity at those prices leads to Annual costs of £554.4 to £624 .
Whereas 12000Kw/year of gas at 0.0278/Kw to 0.02859/Kw gives annual costs of £333.6 to £343.08.
So explain to me again where your savings are going to come from to recover the initial outlay deficit of over £3500.
Even if you could acually get a COP of 5 for ground pumps all the year round the running costs would still be 2400Kw at £0.14 for an anual bill of £332 to £374.
So without the various subsidies Air Sourced heat pumps make no financial sense at all, unless you live off the Gas grid.
ps Editing mixedup Air & ground pumps [Post edited 19 Nov 2020 12:25]
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| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 12:30 - Nov 19 with 8397 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Johnson"s "Green Industrial Revolution" on 11:37 - Nov 19 by Scotia |
Over the longer term yes. I think we'll see huge developments in technology over the nest 10 years to reduce cost.
Johnson is too focused on Offshore wind. As is that article. Many of the projects required to reach his targets won't even get planning consent and relevant licences by 2030 let alone actually be operational.
Other renewables have a significant role to play too. |
" I think we'll see huge developments in technology over the nest 10 years to reduce cost. "
Reduction in what costs?
You say that you are very keen on environmental impacts, while denying the impacts of Wind Turbine Farms, well here is a serious one for you.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54994865 | | | |
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