| Stronger squad etc etc 18:53 - Feb 3 with 2086 views | Butty101 |
Where’s Nick today? Being the mouth piece of the club, I was expecting him to churn out some positives. Maybe remind what a great window we had and how the squad is stronger. Or what a great owner Gao is by not putting a penny into the club he bought. [Post edited 3 Feb 2021 18:54]
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 14:53 - Feb 4 with 472 views | SaintNick |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 14:04 - Feb 4 by DorsetIan |
You are sticking to your guns that Gao has done us no wrong and I respect that, but, for me, you seem not be able to see the wood for the trees.
For whatever reason, over the 3.5 years since Gao bought the club, the strength of the squad has weakened. For the Utd game we were really missing 3 players - KWP, Vestergaard and Romeu. We were forced to bring in not only two youngsters, but two youngsters with almost no previous experience. Add to that that we had nobody on the bench to bring on in midfield when down to 10 men. And the starting 11 'experienced' players included Stephens and Djenepo, who probably cost us 5 goals between them.
Every window, it's been clear that we haven't brought in who we need because we are strapped for cash. You were even trying to dress this window up as a good one, while more players left without replacement.
We've just got steadily weaker and weaker, and when a few injuries hit, it's not even that the cracks start to show, we go down 9-0...again!
The direction of travel if Gao stays as the owner is as clear as day.
As I said, it's not personal, it's just a fact. |
I said Gao has done us no wrong, which is a little different than saying he has done now wrong.
I'm sorry but I am seeing through the tress at the full picture.
You keep on saying the squad has weakened, but Gao's first season almost saw us relegated, due to poor transfer business, the last two seasons have seen us start to move up the table.
For the United game we were missing KWP, Vestergaard, Romeu Diallo & Walcott, 4 out of those 5 players would have started, thats almost half the starting XI .
You say im trying to dress up the window, I would say you are looking at it with unrealistic ambitions, only 21 players were signed by Premier League clubs mostly on free transfers or loans of which West Brom signed 5 of them and 5 clubs signed no one at all.
In the other direction 100 players left Premier league clubs again mainly on free transfers and loans and mainly back up players, on average Premier League squads decreased by 4 players per team.
You say players left without replacement, Vokins 2 games, Valery 2 games, going to miss that big time arent we, yes it happened at the wrong time but there is a financial crisis in football not just Saints.
Truth is this window we have got rid of several players who have contributed little to this season and replaced them with 1 who might,
You keep on going on about Gao, to be honest im sick of people moaning about the problem but not coming up with a solution.
Gao will stay till there is someone who wants to buy the club simple as that, so the clear of day thing is that so far the trajectory has been up since Gao arrived, a season is a marathon not a sprint, 4 games ago everyone was talking about the Champions League, now they are suddenly throwing their toys out of the bank and saying all is f****d.
Actually none of it is fact as you say the only facts are in the past, the future is unwritten, some of us just keep calm and carry on, I would love an owner who could invest in the club, but it hasn't happened in the 49 years I have been supporting them (Markus included) and I can't see it at the moment, till then Ill wait and see rather than bedwet every time there is a crisis |  |
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:04 - Feb 4 with 454 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 14:53 - Feb 4 by SaintNick |
I said Gao has done us no wrong, which is a little different than saying he has done now wrong.
I'm sorry but I am seeing through the tress at the full picture.
You keep on saying the squad has weakened, but Gao's first season almost saw us relegated, due to poor transfer business, the last two seasons have seen us start to move up the table.
For the United game we were missing KWP, Vestergaard, Romeu Diallo & Walcott, 4 out of those 5 players would have started, thats almost half the starting XI .
You say im trying to dress up the window, I would say you are looking at it with unrealistic ambitions, only 21 players were signed by Premier League clubs mostly on free transfers or loans of which West Brom signed 5 of them and 5 clubs signed no one at all.
In the other direction 100 players left Premier league clubs again mainly on free transfers and loans and mainly back up players, on average Premier League squads decreased by 4 players per team.
You say players left without replacement, Vokins 2 games, Valery 2 games, going to miss that big time arent we, yes it happened at the wrong time but there is a financial crisis in football not just Saints.
Truth is this window we have got rid of several players who have contributed little to this season and replaced them with 1 who might,
You keep on going on about Gao, to be honest im sick of people moaning about the problem but not coming up with a solution.
Gao will stay till there is someone who wants to buy the club simple as that, so the clear of day thing is that so far the trajectory has been up since Gao arrived, a season is a marathon not a sprint, 4 games ago everyone was talking about the Champions League, now they are suddenly throwing their toys out of the bank and saying all is f****d.
Actually none of it is fact as you say the only facts are in the past, the future is unwritten, some of us just keep calm and carry on, I would love an owner who could invest in the club, but it hasn't happened in the 49 years I have been supporting them (Markus included) and I can't see it at the moment, till then Ill wait and see rather than bedwet every time there is a crisis |
Markus did invest. There is no way we could have afforded Fonte and increased his wages from Championship side Palace, as a league 1 club. Rickie Lambert, Clyne also and others. Markus invested in the team. Cortese took the invested money from Markus and spent it. That is a fact isn't it? Nobody is suggesting we spend the rediculous amounts that the top teams do. But it would be nice to be run by the Leicester owner, Wolves owner, Leeds owner, Villa owner, would it not? They have good teams due to investment. We have a good first 11, due to Ralph's good management alone imo, but Ralph is doing it with his hands tied behind his back. Imagine what he could achieve if we spent like Villa, West Ham or Everton.
And this talk of Gao out has come about let's be honest because letting 3 players go out on loan when we have a severe injury crisis was clearly stupid. The result the other night then confirmed it and certainly didn't help the club persuade people this was the right strategy. Maybe it was a bad timing. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 15:13]
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:11 - Feb 4 with 445 views | PaleRider |
Truth is - it's somewhere in between.
We are trying to run as a sustainable business, which s a good thing, but maybe it is simply a pipe dream to assume that will deliver any more than mid-table mediocracy even with a hefty dose of good fortune!
On the flip side, how much money has Gao actually invested into the club since he became the owner (bear in mind Saints saw not a penny of that as it was a transaction between Gao and KL)? The accounts should tell us that. I believe it is zero, but I haven't examined the accounts in any detail. The issues with China started after he had the chance to make an investment. This then begs the question - if Gao has invested nothing then why not and would he do so going forward?
The issue around Gao is that he clearly can't even be bothered to communicate with the fan base and also frankly should not have passed the fit owners' test - so why should we trust him?
So overall, I am sceptical and the best that I can say is that he hasn't asset stripped the club as had been feared. | | | |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:27 - Feb 4 with 435 views | Sadoldgit |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:04 - Feb 4 by Saintsforeverj |
Markus did invest. There is no way we could have afforded Fonte and increased his wages from Championship side Palace, as a league 1 club. Rickie Lambert, Clyne also and others. Markus invested in the team. Cortese took the invested money from Markus and spent it. That is a fact isn't it? Nobody is suggesting we spend the rediculous amounts that the top teams do. But it would be nice to be run by the Leicester owner, Wolves owner, Leeds owner, Villa owner, would it not? They have good teams due to investment. We have a good first 11, due to Ralph's good management alone imo, but Ralph is doing it with his hands tied behind his back. Imagine what he could achieve if we spent like Villa, West Ham or Everton.
And this talk of Gao out has come about let's be honest because letting 3 players go out on loan when we have a severe injury crisis was clearly stupid. The result the other night then confirmed it and certainly didn't help the club persuade people this was the right strategy. Maybe it was a bad timing. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 15:13]
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I didn’t say he didn’t invest. I said he didn’t spend a fortune on us. Apparently he was of the opinion that we should become a self sustaining club. As for players going out on loan, I am not sure what that has to do with Gao? The decision was made by the board and, I assume, the manager. We can argue about Gao all day long but it isn’t going to change anything. Whatever you think of him he hasn’t asset stripped the club and is probably a better option than the new Burnley owner at the moment. |  | | |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:30 - Feb 4 with 425 views | Sadoldgit |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 14:38 - Feb 4 by Saintsforeverj |
But Long, Valery and Vokins would have helped wouldn't they. |
Did you listen to what the manager said? He wants Vokins and Valery to get proper match experience which they won’t get here when Bertrand and KWP are both available. He also says we have Ferry and Ramsey as back up. This comes from the manager, not Gao. | | | |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:38 - Feb 4 with 417 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:27 - Feb 4 by Sadoldgit |
I didn’t say he didn’t invest. I said he didn’t spend a fortune on us. Apparently he was of the opinion that we should become a self sustaining club. As for players going out on loan, I am not sure what that has to do with Gao? The decision was made by the board and, I assume, the manager. We can argue about Gao all day long but it isn’t going to change anything. Whatever you think of him he hasn’t asset stripped the club and is probably a better option than the new Burnley owner at the moment. |
Everything going on at a club comes down to the person at the top. If Semmens was chairman at Chelsea, he would be operating in a completely different way. I would assume Ralph had the choice of being allowed to only have one loan signing but had to get rid of a few first and had to make a choice. Ralph said himself the other day "I would love to bring in 10 players, but we don't have money". I wonder who is enforcing that?
I also didn't say he is the very worse we could have, but we could do a lot better imo. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 15:41]
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:42 - Feb 4 with 409 views | I_would |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 14:28 - Feb 4 by Butty101 |
nick you have gone from non stop criticizing the club, to never saying a bad word.
If you do a comparison between this season and the results of those matches last season. This season we are actually 6 points worse off. Its just as well there are 3 really poor teams in the league, other wise we would be in danger of doing a Swansea on current form.
I would argue we havent played really well in a long time. Possibly back to before Wolves away. We cant score from open play (1 goal in last 8 league games from open play).
Cost cutting by sending varley, vokins and long out was just mental. Varley would have been a better option than ramsey or dnepo. |
Is that Reg Varley RB who played for Unilink Bus 11? | |
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:53 - Feb 4 with 404 views | DorsetIan |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 14:53 - Feb 4 by SaintNick |
I said Gao has done us no wrong, which is a little different than saying he has done now wrong.
I'm sorry but I am seeing through the tress at the full picture.
You keep on saying the squad has weakened, but Gao's first season almost saw us relegated, due to poor transfer business, the last two seasons have seen us start to move up the table.
For the United game we were missing KWP, Vestergaard, Romeu Diallo & Walcott, 4 out of those 5 players would have started, thats almost half the starting XI .
You say im trying to dress up the window, I would say you are looking at it with unrealistic ambitions, only 21 players were signed by Premier League clubs mostly on free transfers or loans of which West Brom signed 5 of them and 5 clubs signed no one at all.
In the other direction 100 players left Premier league clubs again mainly on free transfers and loans and mainly back up players, on average Premier League squads decreased by 4 players per team.
You say players left without replacement, Vokins 2 games, Valery 2 games, going to miss that big time arent we, yes it happened at the wrong time but there is a financial crisis in football not just Saints.
Truth is this window we have got rid of several players who have contributed little to this season and replaced them with 1 who might,
You keep on going on about Gao, to be honest im sick of people moaning about the problem but not coming up with a solution.
Gao will stay till there is someone who wants to buy the club simple as that, so the clear of day thing is that so far the trajectory has been up since Gao arrived, a season is a marathon not a sprint, 4 games ago everyone was talking about the Champions League, now they are suddenly throwing their toys out of the bank and saying all is f****d.
Actually none of it is fact as you say the only facts are in the past, the future is unwritten, some of us just keep calm and carry on, I would love an owner who could invest in the club, but it hasn't happened in the 49 years I have been supporting them (Markus included) and I can't see it at the moment, till then Ill wait and see rather than bedwet every time there is a crisis |
I think your frustration at bed-wetters has blinded you to the bleedin' obvious, which is that the problems arising from the accumulated penny-pinching under Gao is getting harder and harder for Ralph to paper over.
And you seem to have got yourself into a position where you can't abide any criticism of his tenure, no matter the evidence. Even when we get rid of two full backs when we need more, you think it's fine. Even when we lose 9-0, you go out of your way to state that this has nothing to do with Gao. | |
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 16:35 - Feb 4 with 387 views | Kennington |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:11 - Feb 4 by PaleRider |
Truth is - it's somewhere in between.
We are trying to run as a sustainable business, which s a good thing, but maybe it is simply a pipe dream to assume that will deliver any more than mid-table mediocracy even with a hefty dose of good fortune!
On the flip side, how much money has Gao actually invested into the club since he became the owner (bear in mind Saints saw not a penny of that as it was a transaction between Gao and KL)? The accounts should tell us that. I believe it is zero, but I haven't examined the accounts in any detail. The issues with China started after he had the chance to make an investment. This then begs the question - if Gao has invested nothing then why not and would he do so going forward?
The issue around Gao is that he clearly can't even be bothered to communicate with the fan base and also frankly should not have passed the fit owners' test - so why should we trust him?
So overall, I am sceptical and the best that I can say is that he hasn't asset stripped the club as had been feared. |
This whole notion of sustainability is completely flawed. Basically our income mainly comes from short term tv deals. Our main outgoings are relatively short term contracts and one off transfer fees for players. The transfer market being one of hyper inflation. How within those parameters can there ever be any meaningful sustainability within the current club setup? What the club actually means when they talk about sustainability is taking out a huge loan at a high interest rate but probably being able to find enough money to meet the repayments over the next few months or so. In what world is that sustainability? That’s just rank bad decision making from the board and owner. For a start true sustainability would have some actual money in the bank on the balance sheet and not borrowed money. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 16:39]
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 17:24 - Feb 4 with 366 views | Berber |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 14:04 - Feb 4 by DorsetIan |
You are sticking to your guns that Gao has done us no wrong and I respect that, but, for me, you seem not be able to see the wood for the trees.
For whatever reason, over the 3.5 years since Gao bought the club, the strength of the squad has weakened. For the Utd game we were really missing 3 players - KWP, Vestergaard and Romeu. We were forced to bring in not only two youngsters, but two youngsters with almost no previous experience. Add to that that we had nobody on the bench to bring on in midfield when down to 10 men. And the starting 11 'experienced' players included Stephens and Djenepo, who probably cost us 5 goals between them.
Every window, it's been clear that we haven't brought in who we need because we are strapped for cash. You were even trying to dress this window up as a good one, while more players left without replacement.
We've just got steadily weaker and weaker, and when a few injuries hit, it's not even that the cracks start to show, we go down 9-0...again!
The direction of travel if Gao stays as the owner is as clear as day.
As I said, it's not personal, it's just a fact. |
I'd say it is opinion, not fact. |  | | |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 17:51 - Feb 4 with 345 views | Butty101 |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 14:53 - Feb 4 by SaintNick |
I said Gao has done us no wrong, which is a little different than saying he has done now wrong.
I'm sorry but I am seeing through the tress at the full picture.
You keep on saying the squad has weakened, but Gao's first season almost saw us relegated, due to poor transfer business, the last two seasons have seen us start to move up the table.
For the United game we were missing KWP, Vestergaard, Romeu Diallo & Walcott, 4 out of those 5 players would have started, thats almost half the starting XI .
You say im trying to dress up the window, I would say you are looking at it with unrealistic ambitions, only 21 players were signed by Premier League clubs mostly on free transfers or loans of which West Brom signed 5 of them and 5 clubs signed no one at all.
In the other direction 100 players left Premier league clubs again mainly on free transfers and loans and mainly back up players, on average Premier League squads decreased by 4 players per team.
You say players left without replacement, Vokins 2 games, Valery 2 games, going to miss that big time arent we, yes it happened at the wrong time but there is a financial crisis in football not just Saints.
Truth is this window we have got rid of several players who have contributed little to this season and replaced them with 1 who might,
You keep on going on about Gao, to be honest im sick of people moaning about the problem but not coming up with a solution.
Gao will stay till there is someone who wants to buy the club simple as that, so the clear of day thing is that so far the trajectory has been up since Gao arrived, a season is a marathon not a sprint, 4 games ago everyone was talking about the Champions League, now they are suddenly throwing their toys out of the bank and saying all is f****d.
Actually none of it is fact as you say the only facts are in the past, the future is unwritten, some of us just keep calm and carry on, I would love an owner who could invest in the club, but it hasn't happened in the 49 years I have been supporting them (Markus included) and I can't see it at the moment, till then Ill wait and see rather than bedwet every time there is a crisis |
You say "vokins 2 games, Valery 2 games, going to miss that big time arent we, "
Well yeah we are as proved the other night. They are part of a SQUAD not first team regulars.
Really if shipping them out on loan to save a few quid is needed, then we shouldnt be handing out big new contracts. As the club is f**ked
As for never having an owner that invested in the club, well Marcus did to a degree. None of us know what would have happened once we got to the prem. | |
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 18:33 - Feb 4 with 320 views | Sadoldgit |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 15:38 - Feb 4 by Saintsforeverj |
Everything going on at a club comes down to the person at the top. If Semmens was chairman at Chelsea, he would be operating in a completely different way. I would assume Ralph had the choice of being allowed to only have one loan signing but had to get rid of a few first and had to make a choice. Ralph said himself the other day "I would love to bring in 10 players, but we don't have money". I wonder who is enforcing that?
I also didn't say he is the very worse we could have, but we could do a lot better imo. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 15:41]
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Of course we could do better, everyone could do better. The board runs the club, Gao is just the owner. When things go well, as they have been for much of the season, everyone should get credit - including Gao. When things go badly, everyone needs to take their share of the responsibility. That includes Gao. It is not his fault that we have so many injuries. It is not his fault that some officials have made some very poor decisions. The academy seems to be underperforming. Is that his fault? I would say that it is more the fault of those running it and selecting the players as Gao would not have a clue about picking the youngsters or the how to get the best out of them.
You seem to think that Marcus would have thrown money at the club. There is absolutely no evidence to show that he would have done. The general feeling when he was alive was that the club should be self sustaining. It was even mentioned that his ownership was going to be relatively short term and that he would move on after a few years.
We have never had an owner who has thrown money at the club so I don’t know why you expect Gao to be any different?
Why he bought the club I have no idea. A vanity project perhaps? Still, we know he wants to sell. To be honest with you I am more worried about who he might sell to rather than him staying put.
We are struggling financially through some poor purchase which you can’t blame him for. We have also been hammered financially by the pandemic, not his fault either.
I agree with you totally that he is not the best owner, but he is not the worst either. | | | |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 18:54 - Feb 4 with 311 views | DorsetIan |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 18:33 - Feb 4 by Sadoldgit |
Of course we could do better, everyone could do better. The board runs the club, Gao is just the owner. When things go well, as they have been for much of the season, everyone should get credit - including Gao. When things go badly, everyone needs to take their share of the responsibility. That includes Gao. It is not his fault that we have so many injuries. It is not his fault that some officials have made some very poor decisions. The academy seems to be underperforming. Is that his fault? I would say that it is more the fault of those running it and selecting the players as Gao would not have a clue about picking the youngsters or the how to get the best out of them.
You seem to think that Marcus would have thrown money at the club. There is absolutely no evidence to show that he would have done. The general feeling when he was alive was that the club should be self sustaining. It was even mentioned that his ownership was going to be relatively short term and that he would move on after a few years.
We have never had an owner who has thrown money at the club so I don’t know why you expect Gao to be any different?
Why he bought the club I have no idea. A vanity project perhaps? Still, we know he wants to sell. To be honest with you I am more worried about who he might sell to rather than him staying put.
We are struggling financially through some poor purchase which you can’t blame him for. We have also been hammered financially by the pandemic, not his fault either.
I agree with you totally that he is not the best owner, but he is not the worst either. |
Just because Gao is not the worst owner in the world (and he's not) doesn't mean that his ownership of the club can't be criticised.
We have had window after window when players have left but needed players have not come in and the last window, when we actually lost players in two of the positions where we needed to strengthen, emphasises that in spades. This has been going on for 3 and half years now. It's a drip, drip, drip effect and to a certain extent we have all got used to it.
The phrase I would use is that we are in danger of 'withering on the vine' under Gao. He's not putting a knife through our hearts. It's more death by a thousand cuts.
The best Nick, his most ardent supporter, can say of him is that he has 'done us no harm'. It's pretty faint praise.
A club of our size, with our manager, and our potential should expect better than this. | |
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 19:16 - Feb 4 with 304 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Stronger squad etc etc on 18:33 - Feb 4 by Sadoldgit |
Of course we could do better, everyone could do better. The board runs the club, Gao is just the owner. When things go well, as they have been for much of the season, everyone should get credit - including Gao. When things go badly, everyone needs to take their share of the responsibility. That includes Gao. It is not his fault that we have so many injuries. It is not his fault that some officials have made some very poor decisions. The academy seems to be underperforming. Is that his fault? I would say that it is more the fault of those running it and selecting the players as Gao would not have a clue about picking the youngsters or the how to get the best out of them.
You seem to think that Marcus would have thrown money at the club. There is absolutely no evidence to show that he would have done. The general feeling when he was alive was that the club should be self sustaining. It was even mentioned that his ownership was going to be relatively short term and that he would move on after a few years.
We have never had an owner who has thrown money at the club so I don’t know why you expect Gao to be any different?
Why he bought the club I have no idea. A vanity project perhaps? Still, we know he wants to sell. To be honest with you I am more worried about who he might sell to rather than him staying put.
We are struggling financially through some poor purchase which you can’t blame him for. We have also been hammered financially by the pandemic, not his fault either.
I agree with you totally that he is not the best owner, but he is not the worst either. |
I will agree with your last sentence, and the parts that arn't Gao's fault. But I want the best owner for Saints, not some silent owner, that never invests, that can't be bothered to watch any games, just because he is "not the worse". Bearing in mind that football is about passion and winning, why a person would take a loan out to buy into such a project, and not attend games and not invest is the big question on everyones minds. Gao could always explain what his vision is, like Marcus did. The only thing Gao said is "I won't fatten the pig" I wouldnt say that it very inspiring or a good way for the fans to warm to him. And whatever Marcus said about sustainability, we were the highest spenders in league one when we were there. This was investment in the team and enabled our promotion back. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 20:03]
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| Stronger squad etc etc on 21:31 - Feb 4 with 250 views | Sadoldgit |
Although the DeGrosa deal is dead there are up to three other interested parties apparently (according to TalkSport) so we could have a new owner in the not too distant future. | | | |
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