| I wonder what plan the board has in mind 16:55 - Mar 6 with 9141 views | Hopwoodblue |
For replacing the possibility of half a million quid in gate receipts / beer, food sales next season ?
When you look at the possible candidates for relegation from the Championship and Bolton’s current form, plus the clubs with decent away followings that are currently in Div one (they can’t all be promoted) it could be even more.
Or will they bemoan how we’ve no money due to being relegated ? [Post edited 6 Mar 2021 23:23]
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| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 14:33 - Mar 7 with 2674 views | Ninco |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 19:21 - Mar 6 by 442Dale |
It will also affect sponsors too. Everything these days is about the ‘brand’. The knock-on effects of everything that’s happening at Spotland will undoubtedly be noticed elsewhere. |
They’ve just signed up sponsorship at the start of this season so I would imagine they will be okay for a few years.
My concern would be that at the start of this season they put season tickets up by £85. If they get relegated, it will be interesting to see if they reduce them or expect us to still pay that for league 2 football.
Regarding the account, I would expect any business the size of Dale to already have one. Didn’t Graham Morris do it for them? |  | | |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 14:40 - Mar 7 with 2637 views | D_Alien |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 13:51 - Mar 7 by 1907 |
Took the words right out of my mouth.
People are entitled to spend their money however they want, but to choose to add to our financial woes out of spite (aimed at the board) is something that doesn’t sit right with me.
I am very much in the BBM out camp but will still support the club to the bitter end no matter how bad it gets.
League One, League Two, BBM, Barrow, Hill... Managers and divisions are phases of time, what really matters is the club. |
It's not "out of spite" though, is it?
As fans, it's the only leverage we've got
bury fans (in the main) went along with things when they obviously weren't right; it's a different context, but same principle
A different example is at Blackpool, where the fans withdrew their matchday support in an effort to rid themselves of the Oystons. It doesn't happen easily and it doesn't come naturally, but it worked
Since the departure of Andrew Kilpatrick (AK1) a couple of weeks ago, there has just got to be a power struggle (or call it a vacuum - whatever) in leadership at the club. AK1 was a chairman in name only; we know who was calling the shots. AK2 (Andrew Kelly) wouldn't strike anyone as being just a figurehead - he's been proactive for Dale throughout his time here, but is serving in an interim capacity. So, who's calling the shots now? It can't be two people, leadership doesn't work that way, and DB didn't take all that trouble to insert himself into the CEO role to start playing second fiddle now
Until that situation is resolved (as i've posted elsewhere), decision-making is going to be in state of flux at best and in a vacuum at worst. No surprise the Americans are taking a rain check
No fan will take the withdrawal of their money into the club lightly, but if they do, they should be respected for that decision and not naively taken to task. They remain fans just as much as those who make a different decision |  |
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| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 15:14 - Mar 7 with 2547 views | EllDale |
I know this thread is about projected revenue loss if the club are relegated but I’m worried about one aspect of the apparent business plan which decrees that young players have to be developed and sold on every year to balance the books.
Baah is the obvious contender to go this year but are there anymore gems in waiting to swell the coffers in future seasons?
I could also be controversial and say that we have have probably made as much money over the last 15 years by finding players at other clubs and selling them on at a profit as opposed to selling Academy products. I’m including Scott Hogan in this category even though he started as a junior at Spotland but there’s also Holt, Lambert, Murray, McGahey and Rafferty in this category. And technically I wouldn’t class Craig Dawson as an Academy product.
Jamie Allen, Danny Adshead, Andy Cannon, Callum Camps etc might have come through the Academy but I bet we didn’t make a million in total when they left. And there now seems to be some doubt as to how much we actually received as a down payment for Luke Mathewson. | | | |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 16:31 - Mar 7 with 2471 views | 49thseason |
I have been mulling over this for months. It is apparent that the Football club finds it more difficult to survive with each passing year, Other clubs attract investment, or maybe sell a player for lots of millions or simply have a large enough fan-base to support most of what they do.
We have none of these things. it seems to me that there are about 3000 hard-core supporters vs the 5000 that are ideally needed, whether or not we have new investors remains to be seen but in typical Rochdale style this has swung from yes, to no , and now to maybe.
As far as transfers go, I don't see anyone in the current 1st team squad that is going to raise enough money to subsidise half a dozen well paid players for 3 or 4 years. If we drop into L2, all of the above becomes more problematic.
So to address the supporters angle, how do we recruit another 2000 people prepared to pay £2-300 a season? Say £500k PA. The cheap ST/Cards experiment seems not to have been the success we might have hoped for and prices have moved upwards and yet we have 5000 empty seats at most matches. Is there any real harm in selling those seats for say £5,6,7 a game or selling 2 or 3 match tickets for say £15? Should we be penalising people who walk up on match-day or encouraging them?
And what about things like a 500 or 1000 member Executive Club where for say an extra £100 per year you get a guaranteed seat number for cup matches etc, maybe a half price shirt, a seat cushion, an executive club scarf, etc etc. and a 1000 Club monthly draw for £500 or similar?
If we cant get £10 per game from 2000 people to attend 23 matches, how can we get another 4 or 5000 people to put £2 a week into the club's lottery? Clearly what has replaced the 90-100 agents isn't working and the prize money is hardly setting the world on fire. So, why not use the Kia sponsorship we already have to offer a new car every month or 2 months - 5000 tickets at £5 each less £13k for the car could raise £150k a year. These guys seem to do OK https://www.botb.com/prizes/cars
Or how about issuing another 200,000 shares? at 50p each?
The lack of visible energy from within the club has been notable for donkeys years, the matchday experience is virtually unchanged since I stood on cinders in the Paddock, Then at least the Wednesday Observer used to tell people if we were at home on a Saturday... note to marketing, the internet only works if people choose to look for you. Where are the mini fixture lists, where are the calendars in pubs and shops? Why is there no door to door leafleting? Too much bother?
And what about the off-pitch experience? Are we planning any curry nights perhaps at the cricket club/ training ground? sportsman's dinners? how about some "evenings with..." at the Gracie fields theatre? Why aren't the bars busy during the week? are there no local bands looking for venues? Jazz nights, comedy nights? Sunday car boot sales? I know this year has been a write off, but surely this is the time to plan, a call to arms if you will. How do we intend to burst out of our bubbles?
Keith Hill used to say Rochdale needed someone to put in £2m a year given that is unlikely, adding £300K on gate takings, 100k from a 1000 club, and 150k from car raffles and another 100k from other events would at least make us more secure, would add interest and would start to change the image of "little Rochdale".
This could be a great time to up our sales and marketing game, Other clubs will possibly be in even worse positions than Rochdale post-Covid, we have the pain now but with a good plan we could emerge stronger and more sustainable.. |  | | |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 17:20 - Mar 7 with 2394 views | blackdogblue |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 16:31 - Mar 7 by 49thseason |
I have been mulling over this for months. It is apparent that the Football club finds it more difficult to survive with each passing year, Other clubs attract investment, or maybe sell a player for lots of millions or simply have a large enough fan-base to support most of what they do.
We have none of these things. it seems to me that there are about 3000 hard-core supporters vs the 5000 that are ideally needed, whether or not we have new investors remains to be seen but in typical Rochdale style this has swung from yes, to no , and now to maybe.
As far as transfers go, I don't see anyone in the current 1st team squad that is going to raise enough money to subsidise half a dozen well paid players for 3 or 4 years. If we drop into L2, all of the above becomes more problematic.
So to address the supporters angle, how do we recruit another 2000 people prepared to pay £2-300 a season? Say £500k PA. The cheap ST/Cards experiment seems not to have been the success we might have hoped for and prices have moved upwards and yet we have 5000 empty seats at most matches. Is there any real harm in selling those seats for say £5,6,7 a game or selling 2 or 3 match tickets for say £15? Should we be penalising people who walk up on match-day or encouraging them?
And what about things like a 500 or 1000 member Executive Club where for say an extra £100 per year you get a guaranteed seat number for cup matches etc, maybe a half price shirt, a seat cushion, an executive club scarf, etc etc. and a 1000 Club monthly draw for £500 or similar?
If we cant get £10 per game from 2000 people to attend 23 matches, how can we get another 4 or 5000 people to put £2 a week into the club's lottery? Clearly what has replaced the 90-100 agents isn't working and the prize money is hardly setting the world on fire. So, why not use the Kia sponsorship we already have to offer a new car every month or 2 months - 5000 tickets at £5 each less £13k for the car could raise £150k a year. These guys seem to do OK https://www.botb.com/prizes/cars
Or how about issuing another 200,000 shares? at 50p each?
The lack of visible energy from within the club has been notable for donkeys years, the matchday experience is virtually unchanged since I stood on cinders in the Paddock, Then at least the Wednesday Observer used to tell people if we were at home on a Saturday... note to marketing, the internet only works if people choose to look for you. Where are the mini fixture lists, where are the calendars in pubs and shops? Why is there no door to door leafleting? Too much bother?
And what about the off-pitch experience? Are we planning any curry nights perhaps at the cricket club/ training ground? sportsman's dinners? how about some "evenings with..." at the Gracie fields theatre? Why aren't the bars busy during the week? are there no local bands looking for venues? Jazz nights, comedy nights? Sunday car boot sales? I know this year has been a write off, but surely this is the time to plan, a call to arms if you will. How do we intend to burst out of our bubbles?
Keith Hill used to say Rochdale needed someone to put in £2m a year given that is unlikely, adding £300K on gate takings, 100k from a 1000 club, and 150k from car raffles and another 100k from other events would at least make us more secure, would add interest and would start to change the image of "little Rochdale".
This could be a great time to up our sales and marketing game, Other clubs will possibly be in even worse positions than Rochdale post-Covid, we have the pain now but with a good plan we could emerge stronger and more sustainable.. |
See where your going with this and there are some good ideas in there. The Radcliffe Arms was never packed during the week before they fully refurbished it & the Dale bar which was the “pub” bit was slowly wound down by reduced opening nights to match days only.
Patrick who used to run it before Steve took over was really honest, the place makes more on buffet lunch conferences / meetings with Tea & Coffees than the bar does.. on the downside it is too big for a lot of meetings and there are other places in the area more suitable (electronic boards, break out rooms / overhead projectors etc) and let’s me truly honest here... Microsoft Teams / Zoom has killed the old fashioned meetings...
Exec club is a good idea, expand the leather seating bit in the main stand?? Otherwise if you want to be in it as a Sandy Laner, comfy leaning post?
Sometimes the more suggestions raised for money raising the better though as we as a club are not very good at it....
Mine is sell fags in the kiosk & give us back our smoking area.... that will bring back a lot of people |  |
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| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 08:43 - Mar 8 with 2208 views | JPSDale |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 14:33 - Mar 7 by Ninco |
They’ve just signed up sponsorship at the start of this season so I would imagine they will be okay for a few years.
My concern would be that at the start of this season they put season tickets up by £85. If they get relegated, it will be interesting to see if they reduce them or expect us to still pay that for league 2 football.
Regarding the account, I would expect any business the size of Dale to already have one. Didn’t Graham Morris do it for them? |
I'm sure Mr Bottom(of the table) will have a sales pitch telling us to put our money where his faith is regarding next seasons prices. His memory will be a short one regarding those, like me and many others, who have not requested refunds on this year... loyalty is rarely repaid in life and this will be another example
From the Accounts, Yes Graham Morris did and still does some of the accountancy work, for which his firm gets paid..... | | | |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 10:49 - Mar 8 with 2092 views | JPSDale |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 14:40 - Mar 7 by D_Alien |
It's not "out of spite" though, is it?
As fans, it's the only leverage we've got
bury fans (in the main) went along with things when they obviously weren't right; it's a different context, but same principle
A different example is at Blackpool, where the fans withdrew their matchday support in an effort to rid themselves of the Oystons. It doesn't happen easily and it doesn't come naturally, but it worked
Since the departure of Andrew Kilpatrick (AK1) a couple of weeks ago, there has just got to be a power struggle (or call it a vacuum - whatever) in leadership at the club. AK1 was a chairman in name only; we know who was calling the shots. AK2 (Andrew Kelly) wouldn't strike anyone as being just a figurehead - he's been proactive for Dale throughout his time here, but is serving in an interim capacity. So, who's calling the shots now? It can't be two people, leadership doesn't work that way, and DB didn't take all that trouble to insert himself into the CEO role to start playing second fiddle now
Until that situation is resolved (as i've posted elsewhere), decision-making is going to be in state of flux at best and in a vacuum at worst. No surprise the Americans are taking a rain check
No fan will take the withdrawal of their money into the club lightly, but if they do, they should be respected for that decision and not naively taken to task. They remain fans just as much as those who make a different decision |
AK1 left the club in name only, he never really joined IMO. He was not a Dale fan, lived 200 miles away, and only became involved via inheritance. His leaving does not create a vacuum as his involvement was minimal, but his shareholding does represent a risk.
AK2 recognises the need for new blood on the Board, but that Board members requires shareholdings and interest or passion for the club. The Americans see it as a business opportunity, nothing else
Other shareholders are creating the vacuum with their shareholdings - David Kilpatrick 22397, Jim Marsh / Family 35000, Graham Morris 32072 = Total 89,469 none of which are involved in "direct leadership" of the club, yet represent a significant weight of the issued shares. With AK1 holding you can add another 110,000 - so roughly 200,000 shares are held by people not interested in leading the club, or it seems, finding appropriate people to replace them ( family, friends, associates etc )
Every business or organisation needs a succession plan - Dale is no different, so the sooner we understand what is happening to these shareholdings the better.
If Andy Kelly decides not to be so proactive and generous with his time ( for free ...) then this will mean that our Board Members will have 39850 shares between them( Bottomley 13100, pockney 12500, rawlinson 14250 ), significantly less that the US based Businessmen looking to make a business transaction ( Make Money from the Club)
The existing shareholders have paid between 50p and £2 for their shares, but the Board asked the US Businessmen for £6 for unissued shares, it seems the US Businessmen did not see the value at £6, but they were able to buy from CD / WG / PH at a more agreeable price.
Andy Kelly, as per his statement, said he checked the register to see where else might represent a "risk" ie the US Businessmen buying shares below the club valuation of £6, but a nice profit for the selling shareholder. He bought more shares and gave more time to protect the Clubs position.
Will any other shareholders choose to make a profit by selling to the US Businessmen above the price they paid for the shares ??
The existing shareholders are all bright people, they can see the vacuum their position is creating - so now its time to step up, make a decision, plan their exits, straighten the club out, and enjoy being Vice Presidents
No decision on BBM will be made whilst there is nobody to make the decision, a lack of a decision that will ultimately leave us in Div2 or worse | | | |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 13:30 - Mar 8 with 1947 views | Creepy |
I think the club need to be very worried about how many fans will come back next year regardless of which division we are in. I've had 50 years of supporting Rochdale but over the last few years my attendance at games has dwindled. There are a number of reasons for this but priorities can change and especially during the last 12 months peoples habits will have changed too. If you'd have told me 10 years ago that I'd be picking a handful of games to go to over a season, I wouldn't have believed it, but things change in life and I'm sure I'm not the only one this has happened too. I wonder what the core fan base of week in, week out supporters will actually be once fans can return. I would imagine it will be significantly lower. |  | | |
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| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 17:20 - Mar 8 with 1777 views | DaleFan7 |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 15:14 - Mar 7 by EllDale |
I know this thread is about projected revenue loss if the club are relegated but I’m worried about one aspect of the apparent business plan which decrees that young players have to be developed and sold on every year to balance the books.
Baah is the obvious contender to go this year but are there anymore gems in waiting to swell the coffers in future seasons?
I could also be controversial and say that we have have probably made as much money over the last 15 years by finding players at other clubs and selling them on at a profit as opposed to selling Academy products. I’m including Scott Hogan in this category even though he started as a junior at Spotland but there’s also Holt, Lambert, Murray, McGahey and Rafferty in this category. And technically I wouldn’t class Craig Dawson as an Academy product.
Jamie Allen, Danny Adshead, Andy Cannon, Callum Camps etc might have come through the Academy but I bet we didn’t make a million in total when they left. And there now seems to be some doubt as to how much we actually received as a down payment for Luke Mathewson. |
This was a point I made on another thread. If you actually step back and look at players who came through our academy, Matheson aside, we really haven't made much money from them and for players we have addons for r.e. Adshead I really can't see much coming from them. It really is more the 'upcycling' of players either on the downward or players at crossroads in their careers. We need to start commanding bigger up front fees.
I think we'll end up selling people too early and they'll disappear or drop back down to our level, rather than staying here for a decent amount of time and actually be ready for a step up.
If this is our business model then we're going to sink, quickly.
When we're relegated, I really can't see them selling over 1,000 at the prices they were last season. There has been no mention of what will happen to the shortfall of STs compared to ifollow passes. If you bought a season ticket in the Main Stand and use all your ifollow passes you're still £105 short. Do you need to ask for a refund before the last home game and not watch it to get it all refunded? Will it be knocked off next year's ST price? | | | |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 17:38 - Mar 8 with 1757 views | boromat |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 15:14 - Mar 7 by EllDale |
I know this thread is about projected revenue loss if the club are relegated but I’m worried about one aspect of the apparent business plan which decrees that young players have to be developed and sold on every year to balance the books.
Baah is the obvious contender to go this year but are there anymore gems in waiting to swell the coffers in future seasons?
I could also be controversial and say that we have have probably made as much money over the last 15 years by finding players at other clubs and selling them on at a profit as opposed to selling Academy products. I’m including Scott Hogan in this category even though he started as a junior at Spotland but there’s also Holt, Lambert, Murray, McGahey and Rafferty in this category. And technically I wouldn’t class Craig Dawson as an Academy product.
Jamie Allen, Danny Adshead, Andy Cannon, Callum Camps etc might have come through the Academy but I bet we didn’t make a million in total when they left. And there now seems to be some doubt as to how much we actually received as a down payment for Luke Mathewson. |
I think with Allen, Camps, Cannon we may not have made as much money with the transfers as we'd have liked but their wages while they were here will have been less than bringing someone in so there's a saving as such there. I think this was shown in part of the presentation given in the fans forum last year. | |
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| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 17:43 - Mar 8 with 1749 views | Hopwoodblue |
| I wonder what plan the board has in mind on 13:30 - Mar 8 by Creepy |
I think the club need to be very worried about how many fans will come back next year regardless of which division we are in. I've had 50 years of supporting Rochdale but over the last few years my attendance at games has dwindled. There are a number of reasons for this but priorities can change and especially during the last 12 months peoples habits will have changed too. If you'd have told me 10 years ago that I'd be picking a handful of games to go to over a season, I wouldn't have believed it, but things change in life and I'm sure I'm not the only one this has happened too. I wonder what the core fan base of week in, week out supporters will actually be once fans can return. I would imagine it will be significantly lower. |
Sadly the board only seem to want to communicate when they want money from us, once that’s achieved it’s a case of thanks very much “now F off until we want some more money next season”
I know there’s a forum on Wednesday but it’s about two months to late if you ask me.
Where are the good old days when you felt part of the football club and not just a cash cow ? | |
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