| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect 06:32 - Oct 6 with 6433 views | saint68 |
Sounds familiar doesn't it, well that's the situation here in Spain and across-the-board in Europe..member States getting rather angry and turning on the commission to act.
Italy suffering with massive debt, food shortages,and rising tensions due to the mass immigration from across the Mediterranean.
Spanish government have actually acted by cutting all profits for energy companies to bridge the gap on energy costs..France stamping their feet and saying that shouldn't be allowed ( a suppler to Spain)
See its happening over here and across Europe, but when I read the insular clap trap from desperate remainers blaming Brexit for absolutely everything happening back in England it really does make me chuckle..
I think the saying was "Little Britain' by those that wanted to remain in the (Union🤔🤔🤒) Well maybe take a look at the state of the European Union before blaming everything on leaving the very un-harmonious EU. |  |
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 20:44 - Oct 8 with 1254 views | Sadoldgit |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 16:01 - Oct 8 by Bazza |
' We have no say in a European army now for example. In fact we have no say in anything that happens across a very thin strip of water.'
We were having very little say in the EU so we have lost very little, surely? Except of course we have stopped contributing a ton of money to an organisation run by unelected bureaucrats that manage somehow to lose millions every year.
In football at least we get an equal vote with the other 19 Premier clubs (or are they really equal votes? ) |
Unelected bureaucrats? MEPs are elected. Countries have vetoes. We put money in but we also got plenty out. |  | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 21:11 - Oct 8 with 1243 views | Bazza |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 20:44 - Oct 8 by Sadoldgit |
Unelected bureaucrats? MEPs are elected. Countries have vetoes. We put money in but we also got plenty out. |
I think you’re being intentionally naive or misguided. The eu leaders,(not the MEPs,) are not elected by popular vote. Often they have been appointed as stooges for manipulative country leaders. Eg Kinnock, mrs kinnock, Mandelson, Juncker all on very generous salaries and huge allowances and all leave with fat pensions (on condition they continue to support the eu) paid for by taxpayers.
Of course the UK paid millions and got some back but the net figure was substantial as you know. Most of the poorer countries have net incomes from the eu paid by the richest ones. Fair enough but eu accounts have never fully passed an audit without comments. [Post edited 8 Oct 2021 23:13]
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 09:27 - Oct 9 with 1182 views | Sadoldgit |
We can bat this back and forth all day long Bazza, but neither of us will change our minds. The problem is there is no right or wrong and the country is split down the middle about what it wants. That is why the subject will never go away.
https://www.theweek.co.uk/108125/is-the-eu-democratic?amp [Post edited 9 Oct 2021 10:00]
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 10:02 - Oct 9 with 1176 views | grumpy |
Why countries can't cooperate with each other during these trying times is very sad.
Leaving the EU was a step in the wrong direction.
Cooperation with countries France is very important, now we have them turning a blind eye to boats full of people trying to get here while being paid millions to police it, the French fisherman and the Channel Islands having problems, not to mention trade deals.
Not to worry Boris will sort it all out.
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 10:22 - Oct 9 with 1164 views | dirk_doone |
Spain seems to be doing something right:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58849024
One of the problems with leaving the EU is that our government no longer feels the need to maintain minimum EU standards, which means we are going to fall even further behind the other Western European countries in terms of standards of health care, pensions etc. [Post edited 9 Oct 2021 10:29]
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 10:37 - Oct 9 with 1137 views | Messysaints |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 09:27 - Oct 9 by Sadoldgit |
We can bat this back and forth all day long Bazza, but neither of us will change our minds. The problem is there is no right or wrong and the country is split down the middle about what it wants. That is why the subject will never go away.
https://www.theweek.co.uk/108125/is-the-eu-democratic?amp [Post edited 9 Oct 2021 10:00]
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No, if it was demoncratic, the EU president would be voted in by its population just like the US president does. we would also know what happens in the council meetings, currently they are done behind closed doors with the MEPS we vote in also not allowed to see or hear the meetings, these meetings are where the EUs important decisions are made.
None of this is democratic, here in the UK we can watch every thing paralament talk about live on tv.... you can also read the sessions of what was said on the goverment website, that is done so the population can hold goverment to account, it is also law
When we joined the eec we voted on it, the Iron Lady was full of support and thought it was a great thing, so she put it to a vote to us, we voted to join and when we joined, we didnt have freedom of movement and quite alot of other stuff, since we joined it has gone from a none controling entity to a total controling entity making laws that members dont even get a say in. the EU is not what we voted to join, nor has every UK PM agreed with what the eec turned into, the Iron Lady got kicked out of office cause she didnt want any thnig to change in the EEC and she was extremly against the changes like freedom of movement. freedom of movement has never been voted on and when it final did get voted on ( 20 odd years to late... ), the country decided to leave the bloc......... not only did we have a democratic vote to leave, Remainers started taking the goverment to court to block leaving with no deal, thus greatly reducing the goverments negotiating power at the table with the EU who knew we had to take a deal now cause of are own laws, brought about by undemocratic people thinking they can stop some thing that was democratically voted for by the population. amazing how none democratic organisation eg the EU has undemocratic people wanting to join.. funny.... | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 10:48 - Oct 9 with 1121 views | Messysaints |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 10:22 - Oct 9 by dirk_doone |
Spain seems to be doing something right:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58849024
One of the problems with leaving the EU is that our government no longer feels the need to maintain minimum EU standards, which means we are going to fall even further behind the other Western European countries in terms of standards of health care, pensions etc. [Post edited 9 Oct 2021 10:29]
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they still have a lot of restictions eg no gathering, schools still social distancing and stuff, where as we have all are freedoms back and some places in the EU are expecting / having a 4th wave.... | | | |
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:23 - Oct 9 with 1079 views | Sadoldgit |
It is my understanding that every motion in the EU has to be voted on by democratically elected MEPs. Although the commissioners are not voted in by the public,?the are voted in by the democratically elected MEPs. If Brexiteers are so worried about democracy why are they not up in arms about our no democratically elected second chamber?
As for our own democratic system, the make up of Parliament in no way reflects the number of votes cast so how is that truly democratic? | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:32 - Oct 9 with 1073 views | Messysaints |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:23 - Oct 9 by Sadoldgit |
It is my understanding that every motion in the EU has to be voted on by democratically elected MEPs. Although the commissioners are not voted in by the public,?the are voted in by the democratically elected MEPs. If Brexiteers are so worried about democracy why are they not up in arms about our no democratically elected second chamber?
As for our own democratic system, the make up of Parliament in no way reflects the number of votes cast so how is that truly democratic? |
the EU council can push through any thing with out a single MEP even knowing about it. yes we put in our MEPs to over see and vote on our behalf, but the important stuff, they dont get to see or hear and have no voice... it cant be compared. | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:54 - Oct 9 with 1060 views | saint68 |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:32 - Oct 9 by Messysaints |
the EU council can push through any thing with out a single MEP even knowing about it. yes we put in our MEPs to over see and vote on our behalf, but the important stuff, they dont get to see or hear and have no voice... it cant be compared. |
The wrecking of the Southern countries economies pretty much overnight when adopting the Euro currency was enough for me to be more than cautious of the aims of the EU(Germany/France) in all but name..they call the shots and everyone has to tow the line ..insolence will be punished.. [Post edited 9 Oct 2021 12:00]
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:55 - Oct 9 with 1060 views | Bazza |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:23 - Oct 9 by Sadoldgit |
It is my understanding that every motion in the EU has to be voted on by democratically elected MEPs. Although the commissioners are not voted in by the public,?the are voted in by the democratically elected MEPs. If Brexiteers are so worried about democracy why are they not up in arms about our no democratically elected second chamber?
As for our own democratic system, the make up of Parliament in no way reflects the number of votes cast so how is that truly democratic? |
No, EU commissioners are not voted in by MEPs, but appointed by member states rather like the UK House of Lords (without bishops and hereditary peers). How do you think Kinnock got in!
The MEPs can only debate proposals put forward by the appointed commissioners, they cannot make their own proposals. So not democratic.
Regarding our Parliament proportional representation I'm sure UKIP, Greens and your LibDems would be much happier. | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 08:36 - Oct 11 with 941 views | huelinsaint |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 10:48 - Oct 9 by Messysaints |
they still have a lot of restictions eg no gathering, schools still social distancing and stuff, where as we have all are freedoms back and some places in the EU are expecting / having a 4th wave.... |
2,000 cases daily in Spain,35,000 a day in the UK,you can keep your freedoms.
38 cases per 100,000 in Spain 400 in the UK | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 09:11 - Oct 11 with 927 views | 1885_SFC |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 10:02 - Oct 9 by grumpy |
Why countries can't cooperate with each other during these trying times is very sad.
Leaving the EU was a step in the wrong direction.
Cooperation with countries France is very important, now we have them turning a blind eye to boats full of people trying to get here while being paid millions to police it, the French fisherman and the Channel Islands having problems, not to mention trade deals.
Not to worry Boris will sort it all out.
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It's all politics - especially with the French.
We think they're doing a crap job stopping boatloads of people crossing the Channel. We're paying them millions to help foot the bill - but still they come. So we issue a pitiful amount of fishing licences to French trawlers to allow them to fish UK waters. If they want more boats to be allowed to fish here - then stop the inflatable dinghies. Simple.
It's a mucky business is politics. |  |
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 10:52 - Oct 11 with 884 views | dirk_doone |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 09:11 - Oct 11 by 1885_SFC |
It's all politics - especially with the French.
We think they're doing a crap job stopping boatloads of people crossing the Channel. We're paying them millions to help foot the bill - but still they come. So we issue a pitiful amount of fishing licences to French trawlers to allow them to fish UK waters. If they want more boats to be allowed to fish here - then stop the inflatable dinghies. Simple.
It's a mucky business is politics. |
There are two key issues here:
1. We didn't pay them.
2. Other European countries view us as a country that no longer wants to cooperate with them so they are reciprocating by no longer cooperating with us. We might have got away with it if we'd never joined the EU but by leaving it we've made it very clear and hell hath no fury like a country scorned. [Post edited 11 Oct 2021 12:24]
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:20 - Oct 11 with 860 views | Messysaints |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 08:36 - Oct 11 by huelinsaint |
2,000 cases daily in Spain,35,000 a day in the UK,you can keep your freedoms.
38 cases per 100,000 in Spain 400 in the UK |
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
As of week 2021-39, 38 546 503 cases have been reported in the EU/EEA: Spain (4 965 399),
As of week 2021-39, 772 934 deaths have been reported in the EU/EEA: Spain 86 527 from Spain
defo higher than 2 k a day. | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:54 - Oct 11 with 846 views | huelinsaint |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:20 - Oct 11 by Messysaints |
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
As of week 2021-39, 38 546 503 cases have been reported in the EU/EEA: Spain (4 965 399),
As of week 2021-39, 772 934 deaths have been reported in the EU/EEA: Spain 86 527 from Spain
defo higher than 2 k a day. |
It's 2000 a day now when the UK is recording 35,000, that was my point,but you knew that didnt you? | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 13:13 - Oct 11 with 825 views | grumpy |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 09:11 - Oct 11 by 1885_SFC |
It's all politics - especially with the French.
We think they're doing a crap job stopping boatloads of people crossing the Channel. We're paying them millions to help foot the bill - but still they come. So we issue a pitiful amount of fishing licences to French trawlers to allow them to fish UK waters. If they want more boats to be allowed to fish here - then stop the inflatable dinghies. Simple.
It's a mucky business is politics. |
'It's a mucky business is politics'
Yes! and we have made it a darn sight worse. | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 13:50 - Oct 11 with 804 views | dirk_doone |
We paid the French up until 2017 to stop immigrants crossing the Channel but we haven't paid them what we promised since. We were also part of an EU legally binding agreement that illegal immigrants/refugees could be returned to the first EU country they came from. As a consequence of us leaving the EU and not making the payments we promised, they no longer feel any need to bother so we have made ourselves a target as the dumping ground for the EU's illegal immigrants, resulting in a massive increase in illegal immigration to this country.
"A total of 15,400 people attempted to cross the Channel in the first eight months of this year, an increase of 50% on the figure for the whole of 2020, according to French coastguard statistics.
“The [British] government has not yet paid what it promised us,” Darmanin said. “We call on the British to keep their promise." [Post edited 11 Oct 2021 13:53]
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 13:54 - Oct 11 with 799 views | Sadoldgit |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 11:55 - Oct 9 by Bazza |
No, EU commissioners are not voted in by MEPs, but appointed by member states rather like the UK House of Lords (without bishops and hereditary peers). How do you think Kinnock got in!
The MEPs can only debate proposals put forward by the appointed commissioners, they cannot make their own proposals. So not democratic.
Regarding our Parliament proportional representation I'm sure UKIP, Greens and your LibDems would be much happier. |
The argument about how democratic the EU is has been going on for years and will not go away any time soon, but surely the best way to deal with it is from within? Just packing our bags and walking off smacks of cutting off our nose to spite our face, especially when our own democratic system leaves much to be desired.
Of course the smaller parties would be happier because they would have a voice in Parliament commensurate to the votes polled, which is much more democratic than our current system. You didn’t mention our second chamber. Are you happy with that unelected body in Parliament? | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 14:01 - Oct 11 with 798 views | dirk_doone |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 13:54 - Oct 11 by Sadoldgit |
The argument about how democratic the EU is has been going on for years and will not go away any time soon, but surely the best way to deal with it is from within? Just packing our bags and walking off smacks of cutting off our nose to spite our face, especially when our own democratic system leaves much to be desired.
Of course the smaller parties would be happier because they would have a voice in Parliament commensurate to the votes polled, which is much more democratic than our current system. You didn’t mention our second chamber. Are you happy with that unelected body in Parliament? |
They won't abolish the House of Lords because that's where they hope to end up themselves, as a nice retirement benefit.
"22 new peers have joined the House of Lords this year at an estimated cost of £1.8million - despite a Government pledge to slash numbers. The new appointments take members of the unelected second chamber to almost 800 - far above the 650 in the elected House of Commons."
Look at them all claiming their monthly "financial support":
https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-finance-office/2021-22/al
Of course they don't want anyone from the outside keeping an eye on what they are up to. Also, we can expect to see billions more spent on buying nuclear weapons from the Americans now that we've left the EU and attempt to ingratiate ourselves more with the USA. The UK currently spends more than $6 billion per year on its nuclear weapons programme. We paid the Americans a contribution to do the R & D on Trident missiles and buy the missiles from them at a cost of $70 million each. Effectively, we are part of a North American army because whatever war they start we feel obliged to join in. Spain doesn't spend anything on nuclear weapons. Why should they? After all who wants to make themselves a prime target in a nuclear war?
[Post edited 11 Oct 2021 14:37]
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| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 15:52 - Oct 11 with 733 views | Messysaints |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 14:01 - Oct 11 by dirk_doone |
They won't abolish the House of Lords because that's where they hope to end up themselves, as a nice retirement benefit.
"22 new peers have joined the House of Lords this year at an estimated cost of £1.8million - despite a Government pledge to slash numbers. The new appointments take members of the unelected second chamber to almost 800 - far above the 650 in the elected House of Commons."
Look at them all claiming their monthly "financial support":
https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-finance-office/2021-22/al
Of course they don't want anyone from the outside keeping an eye on what they are up to. Also, we can expect to see billions more spent on buying nuclear weapons from the Americans now that we've left the EU and attempt to ingratiate ourselves more with the USA. The UK currently spends more than $6 billion per year on its nuclear weapons programme. We paid the Americans a contribution to do the R & D on Trident missiles and buy the missiles from them at a cost of $70 million each. Effectively, we are part of a North American army because whatever war they start we feel obliged to join in. Spain doesn't spend anything on nuclear weapons. Why should they? After all who wants to make themselves a prime target in a nuclear war?
[Post edited 11 Oct 2021 14:37]
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because they are protected by nato and the eu who do have them? 150 american ones https://cnduk.org/resources/united-states-nuclear-weapons-europe/ | | | |
| Extortionate Gas prices, Electricity prices soaring..crisis in full effect on 16:08 - Oct 11 with 725 views | dirk_doone |
Interestingly, Germany said it wouldn't buy nuclear weapons so the Americans sent them there for free. Meanwhile the UK spends billions buying them from Lockheed in California. No wonder the Germans have more money to spend on their healthcare. [Post edited 11 Oct 2021 16:14]
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