| So is the Martinball experiment dead? 21:39 - Sep 3 with 9223 views | Dr_Parnassus |
What on earth has happened here?
Last season I touched upon the key metrics Martin judges performance by, being vastly different to what everyone else does - to the point that “success” in those Martinball areas (pass count, possession, pass number) was actually hindering the result and a reduction in all of the above correlates directly to higher points.
45% possession, 423 passes 19.9% long balls (?!)
No passing for passings sake, no short balls at all costs mantra, no pointless possession just to keep hold of the ball. So refreshing.
In our last two games we have averaged 48% possession and got 4 points from 6.
Martin has either been given an absolute roasting or he’s had an epiphany that what he was doing was never going to work.
Either one is fine by me. I rarely get excited by wins these days knowing that it’s very likely Martinball will be back the next week…. But this time it feels different, I think the witch may actually be dead?
Well done Martin for finally changing it and of course well done to the players. Let’s finally play to this squads ability. |  |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 05:40 - Sep 4 with 1143 views | jack247 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 00:44 - Sep 4 by Jack_Kass |
Oh Martinball was definitely there today, it was more the fact that we weren't particularly doing it well and stumbled tactically into a winning position
Our possession stats were scared easily today, but they will be back and in greater numbers |
That was a deliberate departure from the way we have been playing. Bendas inclusion alone tells us that. Cabango and Wood ahead of Darling does as well.
Of course we played the ball out and tried to pass our way around them, but there was a bit more purpose to it and crucially, we weren’t scared to just clear it when we had to.
This is arguably what Martinball should be. It was still there, but mixed with a healthy dose of pragmatism. Grimes’ ball to put Sorinola that he the didn’t quite put ahead of Piroe enough when we really should have scored, was the sort of move Martins system is designed produce.
Ironically, our goal came from the kind of mistake we’re becoming famous for conceding from, though it was clinical from both Cooper and Piroe.
That Cabango incident in the first minute could turn out to be a sliding doors moment. Looked a clear red to me. He goes off there, the game plan is out the window and we probably lose. The crowd could easily have turned rather than galvanised if we’d lost again. |  | | |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 05:59 - Sep 4 with 1139 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 05:40 - Sep 4 by jack247 |
That was a deliberate departure from the way we have been playing. Bendas inclusion alone tells us that. Cabango and Wood ahead of Darling does as well.
Of course we played the ball out and tried to pass our way around them, but there was a bit more purpose to it and crucially, we weren’t scared to just clear it when we had to.
This is arguably what Martinball should be. It was still there, but mixed with a healthy dose of pragmatism. Grimes’ ball to put Sorinola that he the didn’t quite put ahead of Piroe enough when we really should have scored, was the sort of move Martins system is designed produce.
Ironically, our goal came from the kind of mistake we’re becoming famous for conceding from, though it was clinical from both Cooper and Piroe.
That Cabango incident in the first minute could turn out to be a sliding doors moment. Looked a clear red to me. He goes off there, the game plan is out the window and we probably lose. The crowd could easily have turned rather than galvanised if we’d lost again. |
Agreed | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 07:27 - Sep 4 with 1090 views | Whiterockin |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 23:15 - Sep 3 by jojaca |
Might have been different watching us on Swans TV, but from my seat QPR battered us second half and our style of play may have looked different because of their dominance on the ball. I thought we struggled to get out of own half most of that half and lost our shape that's why Russell made 5 changes today which is unusual for him. Benda made the correct decisions when to play and when to kick it long. I just think Russell give him less responsibility because of his weakness with ball at feet. But I didn't see much deviance from the plan, I just thought QPR looked a better footballing unit but were impotent in front of goal. [Post edited 3 Sep 2022 23:17]
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Talking to a couple of QPR fans after the game. Their thoughts on the game were that we "did a job on them" and snuffed them out of the game by closing them down quickly. In a way I can see where they were coming from, Cooper put in a hell of a shift. |  | | |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 07:42 - Sep 4 with 1081 views | Boundy |
IMO the experiment will continue but evolve and I’d be happy with that if it means we win & enjoy the games | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 08:56 - Sep 4 with 1042 views | vetchonian |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 05:59 - Sep 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
Agreed |
spot on that.....and it was a departure from Martinball he said so himself in his interview on Radio Wales...."did in a different way"
there was no silly kinck out routine which was not 100% at MKDons either,no passing for pass sake and more pace and intent.
We won and held on to the slim lead by playing a different way | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:31 - Sep 4 with 1009 views | magicdaps10 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 08:56 - Sep 4 by vetchonian |
spot on that.....and it was a departure from Martinball he said so himself in his interview on Radio Wales...."did in a different way"
there was no silly kinck out routine which was not 100% at MKDons either,no passing for pass sake and more pace and intent.
We won and held on to the slim lead by playing a different way |
Doing something differently does not mean it was totally neglected.
You can only play what's in front of you and I would say what we seen yesterday was something that Martin and the players would ideally be doing from the start.....i think QPR thought they could come and do their stuff today and they got it wrong as we could then hit the spaces far easier.
Even the QPR manager said that he was bad himself yesterday, I would suggest that was him admitting he got the tactics wrong.
What yesterday will gave done, it would have increased the confidence not only with the management, the players but the fans.
I don't fall for this total change of style malarkey, the goalkeeping situation changed bit that was obviously going to happen due to the personnel change.
I am not interested in posters trying to safe face, it's become clear the agendas of some on here, Wether it consciously or not!.....yesterdays game was a massive pointer in the right direction for all. |  |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:36 - Sep 4 with 1003 views | lifelong |
I enjoyed the game yesterday, moved the ball quicker out of defence and dumped the silly goal kick routine.
Felt for Cullen who seems to have picked up a nasty injury shortly after coming on. |  | | |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:39 - Sep 4 with 1005 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:31 - Sep 4 by magicdaps10 |
Doing something differently does not mean it was totally neglected.
You can only play what's in front of you and I would say what we seen yesterday was something that Martin and the players would ideally be doing from the start.....i think QPR thought they could come and do their stuff today and they got it wrong as we could then hit the spaces far easier.
Even the QPR manager said that he was bad himself yesterday, I would suggest that was him admitting he got the tactics wrong.
What yesterday will gave done, it would have increased the confidence not only with the management, the players but the fans.
I don't fall for this total change of style malarkey, the goalkeeping situation changed bit that was obviously going to happen due to the personnel change.
I am not interested in posters trying to safe face, it's become clear the agendas of some on here, Wether it consciously or not!.....yesterdays game was a massive pointer in the right direction for all. |
It’s your agenda speaking to not admit the obvious.
We had 45% possession and 20% long balls Daps. 
Wake up. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:40 - Sep 4 with 1005 views | vetchonian |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:31 - Sep 4 by magicdaps10 |
Doing something differently does not mean it was totally neglected.
You can only play what's in front of you and I would say what we seen yesterday was something that Martin and the players would ideally be doing from the start.....i think QPR thought they could come and do their stuff today and they got it wrong as we could then hit the spaces far easier.
Even the QPR manager said that he was bad himself yesterday, I would suggest that was him admitting he got the tactics wrong.
What yesterday will gave done, it would have increased the confidence not only with the management, the players but the fans.
I don't fall for this total change of style malarkey, the goalkeeping situation changed bit that was obviously going to happen due to the personnel change.
I am not interested in posters trying to safe face, it's become clear the agendas of some on here, Wether it consciously or not!.....yesterdays game was a massive pointer in the right direction for all. |
nothing about saving face or personal vendetta just facts
the stats all point along with what we saw that yesterday was a departure from the Martinball process.....doesn't mean we play hoof ball but even the manager has said it was a change.
Martin ball is nothing like the Sqansea way when under Martinez Sousa Rodgers Laudrup did we see the keeper ahsad of a defender and passing back ?
when did we play purposeless sideways passes in front of our box?
Personally I thi k Winter has sat him.down and had a word..rather than an epiphany long may a winning way continue | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:51 - Sep 4 with 982 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:40 - Sep 4 by vetchonian |
nothing about saving face or personal vendetta just facts
the stats all point along with what we saw that yesterday was a departure from the Martinball process.....doesn't mean we play hoof ball but even the manager has said it was a change.
Martin ball is nothing like the Sqansea way when under Martinez Sousa Rodgers Laudrup did we see the keeper ahsad of a defender and passing back ?
when did we play purposeless sideways passes in front of our box?
Personally I thi k Winter has sat him.down and had a word..rather than an epiphany long may a winning way continue |
Yep spot on.
Daps doesn’t like admitting that those who called for this style of play were correct. He was fully behind that mad Martinball stuff and was in it to the death - hence why he can’t admit the clear change even when the manager has come out and been completely open about it.
Not that he needed to be of course, even Stevie Wonder could see this was a complete sea change from the approach we have seen for the last 14 months.
20% long, 420 odd passes, 75% complete, 45% possession.
If that’s Martinball then I’m the Pope. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:27 - Sep 4 with 963 views | onehunglow |
3 points mainly because we protected our goalmouth better.
Possession stats mislead | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:32 - Sep 4 with 962 views | Badlands |
QPR came to play and win.
They weren’t interested in sitting back and just attacking on the break.
Some quality defending too. Apart from one shot, did they get a sniff at a goal? |  |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:35 - Sep 4 with 950 views | onehunglow |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:31 - Sep 4 by magicdaps10 |
Doing something differently does not mean it was totally neglected.
You can only play what's in front of you and I would say what we seen yesterday was something that Martin and the players would ideally be doing from the start.....i think QPR thought they could come and do their stuff today and they got it wrong as we could then hit the spaces far easier.
Even the QPR manager said that he was bad himself yesterday, I would suggest that was him admitting he got the tactics wrong.
What yesterday will gave done, it would have increased the confidence not only with the management, the players but the fans.
I don't fall for this total change of style malarkey, the goalkeeping situation changed bit that was obviously going to happen due to the personnel change.
I am not interested in posters trying to safe face, it's become clear the agendas of some on here, Wether it consciously or not!.....yesterdays game was a massive pointer in the right direction for all. |
Fair comment
We simply need to move forward and quit making it easy for the opposition . | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:43 - Sep 4 with 945 views | magicdaps10 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:35 - Sep 4 by onehunglow |
Fair comment
We simply need to move forward and quit making it easy for the opposition . |
That will happen if teams come with a high line defensively as proven over the last season and a bit at home.
We need to break the teams down who defend deep, this is always harder to move the ball and find space in the final third and statistics will completely change under these circumstances.....this is why stats only tell half the story.
Make no bones about it, QPR were a very decent outfit and thought they could beat us at their own game and made certain things much easier than we normally find them on our own patch.......this is another indicator why we are having a bit more joy on the road. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:50 - Sep 4 with 939 views | jack247 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:43 - Sep 4 by magicdaps10 |
That will happen if teams come with a high line defensively as proven over the last season and a bit at home.
We need to break the teams down who defend deep, this is always harder to move the ball and find space in the final third and statistics will completely change under these circumstances.....this is why stats only tell half the story.
Make no bones about it, QPR were a very decent outfit and thought they could beat us at their own game and made certain things much easier than we normally find them on our own patch.......this is another indicator why we are having a bit more joy on the road. |
They probably thought they were in for a good day when they saw no Obafemi in the squad. Always worth considering a high line when the opposition have no pace.
They pressed us hard for 10/15 minutes, forced that mistake from Cabango and one from Wood, then just dropped off. Seemed a strange decision.
I agree though, they were more attacking than most teams who come down here and wait for us to gift them a chance. | | | |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:56 - Sep 4 with 931 views | magicdaps10 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:50 - Sep 4 by jack247 |
They probably thought they were in for a good day when they saw no Obafemi in the squad. Always worth considering a high line when the opposition have no pace.
They pressed us hard for 10/15 minutes, forced that mistake from Cabango and one from Wood, then just dropped off. Seemed a strange decision.
I agree though, they were more attacking than most teams who come down here and wait for us to gift them a chance. |
This is why you seen an instant switch from a back 3 to a flat 4.
Martin instructed Pato and Sorinola to hug the line and Naughton to go into right back........the highline certainly helped us, Sorinola had a field day running into space, better execution and we could have got a few more, the square pass behind Piroe when Sorinola should have taken it up to the keeper and then rolled a square ball to Piroe for an open goal.
The QPR boss got his tactics terribly wrong and Martin was quick to exploit it. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:02 - Sep 4 with 927 views | Badlands |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:50 - Sep 4 by jack247 |
They probably thought they were in for a good day when they saw no Obafemi in the squad. Always worth considering a high line when the opposition have no pace.
They pressed us hard for 10/15 minutes, forced that mistake from Cabango and one from Wood, then just dropped off. Seemed a strange decision.
I agree though, they were more attacking than most teams who come down here and wait for us to gift them a chance. |
Good summary iimo.
Was Cabano's a forced mistake? Seemed to me he just got no power on his header! Recovered well though.
Wood keeps making the same same mistake; he seems to think he has twinkle toes … he doesn’t. Played well again yesterday in spite of that.
Oko-Flex looks like he might be a player who will take on full backs. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:08 - Sep 4 with 915 views | jack247 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:02 - Sep 4 by Badlands |
Good summary iimo.
Was Cabano's a forced mistake? Seemed to me he just got no power on his header! Recovered well though.
Wood keeps making the same same mistake; he seems to think he has twinkle toes … he doesn’t. Played well again yesterday in spite of that.
Oko-Flex looks like he might be a player who will take on full backs. |
Yeah, he misjudged the header, but then grabbed the guys shirt as he was getting away. Once he’d got away with the foul, he recovered well and muscled his way between man and ball.
Very good game after that. | | | |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:11 - Sep 4 with 913 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Nice to see some reality posted on here anyway, it’s clear “some” aren’t going to divert reality with their agenda.
The change was absolutely stark. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:38 - Sep 4 with 874 views | magicdaps10 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:02 - Sep 4 by Badlands |
Good summary iimo.
Was Cabano's a forced mistake? Seemed to me he just got no power on his header! Recovered well though.
Wood keeps making the same same mistake; he seems to think he has twinkle toes … he doesn’t. Played well again yesterday in spite of that.
Oko-Flex looks like he might be a player who will take on full backs. |
Cabango was an unforced error but it was a difficult situation to deal with.....noboace on the ball and he got underneath it.
There is a cracking defender in Wood but he is young and learning, he is the type who will do something superbly one minute and make a silly error the next, get those out of the system and he can go on and become a premier league defender for sure. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:38 - Sep 4 with 872 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:11 - Sep 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nice to see some reality posted on here anyway, it’s clear “some” aren’t going to divert reality with their agenda.
The change was absolutely stark. |
The worry is that he said we had to play like that yesterday because of the 2 away trips we had.
Sounds possible that we may in fact revert back next Saturday to “dominating the ball” |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:44 - Sep 4 with 863 views | jack247 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:38 - Sep 4 by PatchesOHoulihan |
The worry is that he said we had to play like that yesterday because of the 2 away trips we had.
Sounds possible that we may in fact revert back next Saturday to “dominating the ball” |
He’d be stupid to do that.
Stoke wasn’t as blatant as yesterday, but that was a departure from the way we usually play too. Haven’t looked at the stats but possession was quite even.
We’ve got 4 points from 2 games playing this way (and with Cooper behind Piroe). Very brave move to change it back to something that wasn’t working. | | | |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:50 - Sep 4 with 860 views | magicdaps10 |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:38 - Sep 4 by PatchesOHoulihan |
The worry is that he said we had to play like that yesterday because of the 2 away trips we had.
Sounds possible that we may in fact revert back next Saturday to “dominating the ball” |
If next week the opposition sit deep then there is no way how we played yesterday will work AND the fans will just get on the back of the players for making aimless passes.
You have to play the team in front of you, players need to make movements but against a deep defensive line the passes have to be sharper and shorter to align with more intelligent movements between the lines rather than over the top.
Oh to have a Pablo Hernandez in the 10 position for us. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 12:03 - Sep 4 with 849 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:38 - Sep 4 by PatchesOHoulihan |
The worry is that he said we had to play like that yesterday because of the 2 away trips we had.
Sounds possible that we may in fact revert back next Saturday to “dominating the ball” |
If he reverts to type then he deserves everything he gets from the crowd.
Thankfully I believe the pretty blatant about turn in process may well have come from above. Whether directly or a “subtle but firm suggestion”.
The inclusion of Benda and Cabango who are both no nonsense type players and then proceed to play in such a manner I would say was very much a pre planned desire as opposed to something he felt forced into.
We have had zero success with Martinball so he’d be extremely stupid to now go back to that when there are no believers left in that style… well nobody other than those not wanting to lose face. | |
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| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 12:53 - Sep 4 with 806 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:44 - Sep 4 by jack247 |
He’d be stupid to do that.
Stoke wasn’t as blatant as yesterday, but that was a departure from the way we usually play too. Haven’t looked at the stats but possession was quite even.
We’ve got 4 points from 2 games playing this way (and with Cooper behind Piroe). Very brave move to change it back to something that wasn’t working. |
Completely agree, I can’t work out why he’d talk like he did in the interview. | |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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