| Handmaids Tale 10:38 - Mar 31 with 4728 views | saint901 |
I don't know if you've read the book or seen the TV series but basically it's set in a world in which the birth rate has collapsed - it's hinted that this is because humans have poisoned the environment with pollution - and as a result economic activity is stalled and living standards - everywhere - are falling. Using this crisis as a catalyst a group of religious fundamentalists blow up the capital building in Washington DC during a full senate session and in the resulting power vacuum, assume control. Their policy is to take US society back to a time where men ruled the house/world, women are property, dissent from the very strict old testament are punishable by death. The US is also trying to evangelise other countries - Canada in particular - and as a result a series of wars/skirmishes are ongoing. (It's again hinted that one of these is a civil war with the more liberal western seaboard of the US).
Whilst I do not see the religious aspect front and centre of the USA that Trump and his cultists wish to achieve (and his copy cats in Europe aspire to) there are some parallels.
The press is regulated, suppressed; going off message brings exclusion and exile (or worse); dissenters are attacked physically and vocally; outside influences are disregarded and often attacked. There is an elite group (who enjoy many freedoms and pleasures denied others) but the rest of the population is very tightly regulated and forced into submission. There are no Judges or law courts - the law is an extension of the executive. There is no separation of powers, just the application of the religious doctrine, as interpreted by a powerful cabal of "elders".
There is of course a resistance and in this case it's one led by a woman who is separated from her child (given to a childless member of the elite) and who is fighting to get that child back and in so doing exposes flaws and hypocrisy and corruption at the heart of the US ruling elite.
They are great books. The TV show is good (but not as good as the books).
Stripped of the religious aspect, the society described could easily be one to which the US under Felon and crew are heading, especially if he decides that he can ignore the constitution and run for a third term. Authoritarian, intolerant, used to protect and increase the power and wealth of the elite, opposition destroyed by law and physical force.
In the book, the result of the usurping of power in the US is that they are internationally isolated, have internal dissent and are rotting from within as their basis of power (the old testament) is increasingly shown to be unacceptable.
The author, Margaret Attwood, a Canadian so Felon would not regard her as worth anything, uses her make believe world to take a swing at many issues. Most of the central and pivotal characters are female and the make characters are shown as weak, hypocritical, vain, corrupt, cowardly.
Without giving away the ending, ultimately the society collapses under the weight of its own flaws.
I think that I have to see the Felon's USA in the same way. Bear with it. Understand that most people think its too deeply wrong to survive, trust that there remain good Americans, in a few years hopefully the Felon will be broken and serving whatever penance the universe decrees. |  | | |  |
| Handmaids Tale on 11:38 - Apr 5 with 1519 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 20:10 - Apr 3 by DorsetIan |
But you can't tell us whose script he's reading from.
Have you heard of Okham's Razor? Why would you posit that someone else is writing the script when it entirely consistent with his personality and statements over many years, that Trump is writing it.
I guess by your logic, the personalities of Churchill, Stalin, Hitler, Montgomery, Eisenhower, Marshall, were all irrelevent - puppets all of them - in the history of WW2 ?? |
Yes, I have heard of Occam's razor and I don't rate it anymore than I rate Hanlon's razor. Have you heard of phycological operations, deep state and social engineering?
Those who say that Trump is stupid, have a problem, as it means a lot of intelligent people have allowed a stupid person to gain ultimate power. This is a non-sensical argument. On the other hand to use a "stupid person" as some kind of wrecking ball to achieve what you want to achieve and lay the blame elsewhere is very plausible. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 08:43 - Apr 7 with 1350 views | saint901 |
Part of the issue here Mr Jelly is that you continually offer up a theory that we are all being "controlled" by some sort of secret cabal or elite who care only for money and power but when pushed, you have no proof.
The Trump effect on the weak minded is obvious. Offer them something they think they need; strike a blow against "the man"; assume the imagined reins of power. It's a story as old as politics and one we have seen many times in history.
Is he stupid? No. Is he easily led into thinking he is some sort of intellectual superbeing? Yes. Is he vain? Yes. Is he willing to lie to himself and everybody else in covering up these faults? Yes.
But if you want to claim that he is nothing but a factor of a global cabal, you need proof.
And despite repeated opportunities, none has been offered.
Until it is, I'm afraid that your case lacks any credibility. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:54 - Apr 8 with 1258 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 08:43 - Apr 7 by saint901 |
Part of the issue here Mr Jelly is that you continually offer up a theory that we are all being "controlled" by some sort of secret cabal or elite who care only for money and power but when pushed, you have no proof.
The Trump effect on the weak minded is obvious. Offer them something they think they need; strike a blow against "the man"; assume the imagined reins of power. It's a story as old as politics and one we have seen many times in history.
Is he stupid? No. Is he easily led into thinking he is some sort of intellectual superbeing? Yes. Is he vain? Yes. Is he willing to lie to himself and everybody else in covering up these faults? Yes.
But if you want to claim that he is nothing but a factor of a global cabal, you need proof.
And despite repeated opportunities, none has been offered.
Until it is, I'm afraid that your case lacks any credibility. |
I have plenty of proof, you just don’t have the inclination to hear, you have been subject to years of mind control and you can not conceive that the world is different to what is presented to you, like being stuck in the Truman Show.
I could give you names, bloodline families, secret societies etc, but for what purpose? Your mind is set.
More pertinent to this discussion is you give me one reason why I should believe that Biden and Trump are capable of running the Western world and why they would have more power than the money men? I can only imagine the amount of kompromat on Trump, which of course makes him an ideal puppet for them, even you must agree with that? | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 07:38 - Apr 9 with 1205 views | Heisenberg |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:54 - Apr 8 by Jellybaby |
I have plenty of proof, you just don’t have the inclination to hear, you have been subject to years of mind control and you can not conceive that the world is different to what is presented to you, like being stuck in the Truman Show.
I could give you names, bloodline families, secret societies etc, but for what purpose? Your mind is set.
More pertinent to this discussion is you give me one reason why I should believe that Biden and Trump are capable of running the Western world and why they would have more power than the money men? I can only imagine the amount of kompromat on Trump, which of course makes him an ideal puppet for them, even you must agree with that? |
I’m fascinated Jelly. Always open to anything so go on give us the names, secret societies and bloodlines etc. |  |
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| Handmaids Tale on 10:48 - Apr 9 with 1171 views | saint901 |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:54 - Apr 8 by Jellybaby |
I have plenty of proof, you just don’t have the inclination to hear, you have been subject to years of mind control and you can not conceive that the world is different to what is presented to you, like being stuck in the Truman Show.
I could give you names, bloodline families, secret societies etc, but for what purpose? Your mind is set.
More pertinent to this discussion is you give me one reason why I should believe that Biden and Trump are capable of running the Western world and why they would have more power than the money men? I can only imagine the amount of kompromat on Trump, which of course makes him an ideal puppet for them, even you must agree with that? |
Mr jelly, let's not fall for usual trick of saying "I have everything, but let's discuss this first". That is distraction.
Select what you think is your best piece of hard evidence and share it here.
I'll do my best to remove the imaginary mind control shackles you assume I have (without proof) and I and the others here can examine as objectively as we can what you can offer.
Over to you.
No more distraction or attack or other tricks.
Just produce your proof. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:33 - Apr 9 with 1111 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 10:48 - Apr 9 by saint901 |
Mr jelly, let's not fall for usual trick of saying "I have everything, but let's discuss this first". That is distraction.
Select what you think is your best piece of hard evidence and share it here.
I'll do my best to remove the imaginary mind control shackles you assume I have (without proof) and I and the others here can examine as objectively as we can what you can offer.
Over to you.
No more distraction or attack or other tricks.
Just produce your proof. |
901, I feel your pain, it's palpable. First you argue with me, then you mock me, then you snub me, then you call the admins on me, then you say you pity me, now you want to expose me as a charlatan? 901, so many tactics, so little success.
901, I could give you Mr Big's name, but you're not a spiritual man you tell me, so I guess Satan won't cut it with you? The elite bloodlines are freely available to research, but I don't mix in these circles, so I don't have photos of a star chamber of Baddies. I know you're going to be disappointed, but that's all I got - probably not enough proof for you I'm guessing?
Anyway, enough of me, how are you getting on with proof that Trump and all the US presidents back to Reagan say are genuine free spirited organic politicians who arrived in their role on the basis of being the very best democracy has to offer? What about the Trump assassination attempt - you know He held 96 rallies in 2024 and CNN aired only one of them live - yes that one - what are the odds 901?
Come on 901, I need proof that there are not people behind Trump, using him as a great disruptor, people not funding him to bring in technocracy, that they are not trying to crash the economy, that they are not lusting after wars so they can make profits, that they do not control the narrative etc, etc.
Proof 901, proof.
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| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 10:15 - Apr 10 with 1042 views | saint901 |
Again, more distraction and more attacks (which I'm sure make you feel better but do rather show you up) BUT NO PROOF.
Come on - surprise me.
I write (probably quite bad) science fiction short stories for a hobby so I'm open to ideas, going off on tangents from the norm, etc.
If your "elite" are to be found in the higher reaches of authority, temporal or spiritual, in the moneyed ranks of millionaires, in the heart of Gov't, wherever, then I would not be shocked.
But without any evidence your position lacks integrity.
My evidence - just watch the news today. Trump is deluded and vain and stubborn but is he an agent for anybody other than Putin? No I don't think so. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 11:03 - Apr 10 with 1014 views | DorsetIan |
Jellington's fundamental difficulty is that as soon as he names someone, the obvious question will be 'yes, but who's controlling them?'
These conspiracy theories only work if there is a thick layer of fog obscuring anything which might be falsifiable. | |
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| Handmaids Tale on 12:47 - Apr 10 with 990 views | jopreston |
To be honest I am actually quite shocked that anyone would truly believe the DT or KS or anyone similar actually run their countries and make all the decisions themselves. Of course they don't. They have advisors and rules etc.
For some kind of proof, surely the billionaire tax loopholes is enough, no? I mean come on, think about it. Why are these loop holes put in place and kept on in place no matter if it is republican, democrat, tory or labour?
Answer: Because the people funding their party and campaigns are billionaires, so in return they get things their way. So in fact, the world is run and rules are controlled to suit the elites, not to help us.
If a politician gets into power, does anyone really think he can go against these elites? | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 16:00 - Apr 10 with 923 views | DorsetIan |
| Handmaids Tale on 12:47 - Apr 10 by jopreston |
To be honest I am actually quite shocked that anyone would truly believe the DT or KS or anyone similar actually run their countries and make all the decisions themselves. Of course they don't. They have advisors and rules etc.
For some kind of proof, surely the billionaire tax loopholes is enough, no? I mean come on, think about it. Why are these loop holes put in place and kept on in place no matter if it is republican, democrat, tory or labour?
Answer: Because the people funding their party and campaigns are billionaires, so in return they get things their way. So in fact, the world is run and rules are controlled to suit the elites, not to help us.
If a politician gets into power, does anyone really think he can go against these elites? |
Nobody is trying to deny that money makes the world go round.
However, there are estimated to be over 3000 billionaires in the world and they don't all act in unison.
And as with any group of 3000 people there will be different personalities amongst them, not all of whom will be controlling, machiavellian types.
I guess what we are looking for from Jellington is confirmation as to which of the 3000 are really in control?
Who is the capo dei capi? | |
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| Handmaids Tale on 09:13 - Apr 11 with 844 views | jopreston |
| Handmaids Tale on 16:00 - Apr 10 by DorsetIan |
Nobody is trying to deny that money makes the world go round.
However, there are estimated to be over 3000 billionaires in the world and they don't all act in unison.
And as with any group of 3000 people there will be different personalities amongst them, not all of whom will be controlling, machiavellian types.
I guess what we are looking for from Jellington is confirmation as to which of the 3000 are really in control?
Who is the capo dei capi? |
Does it matter which of them is leading it all? The fast is, Jelly is right in what he says. President Trump does what he is told in many respects and the people telling him what he must do are part of this group of 3,000 billionaires. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 14:22 - Apr 11 with 781 views | DorsetIan |
| Handmaids Tale on 09:13 - Apr 11 by jopreston |
Does it matter which of them is leading it all? The fast is, Jelly is right in what he says. President Trump does what he is told in many respects and the people telling him what he must do are part of this group of 3,000 billionaires. |
Trump is a very individual person who has strong opinions. I doubt too many individuals 'tell' him what to do.
As for any politician, there will be many different people around him trying to persuade and cajole him in different directions. Some will have more influence than other. Wealthy donors are a massive party of the US political system, but they compete with all the others trying to influence Trump, including political colleagues, family and his pollsters.
If there was one or a few people 'telling' Trump what to do - it would matter, because those people should have accountability in a democracy for the decisions that they make.
Fact is, however, there isn't one or more small group of billionaires telling Trump what to do. The world is just not like that and anyone who suggests otherwise has the burden of proof, starting with identifying them. | |
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| Handmaids Tale on 05:16 - Apr 12 with 677 views | jopreston |
| Handmaids Tale on 14:22 - Apr 11 by DorsetIan |
Trump is a very individual person who has strong opinions. I doubt too many individuals 'tell' him what to do.
As for any politician, there will be many different people around him trying to persuade and cajole him in different directions. Some will have more influence than other. Wealthy donors are a massive party of the US political system, but they compete with all the others trying to influence Trump, including political colleagues, family and his pollsters.
If there was one or a few people 'telling' Trump what to do - it would matter, because those people should have accountability in a democracy for the decisions that they make.
Fact is, however, there isn't one or more small group of billionaires telling Trump what to do. The world is just not like that and anyone who suggests otherwise has the burden of proof, starting with identifying them. |
Think of it this way. In my lifetime (coming up 60) there has NEVER been a prime minister or president to tax the ultra rich as they should be, NEVER! They never got for the big corporations and make them pay their fair share do they? I wonder why?
Come on, think about it. It is very clear that one individual is simply the face, the figure head. He has his advisor and he also has his bosses. He will not dare to do anything to destroy the ultra rich, neither would Biden, Obama etc. So you have to ask yourself, why? Is it because they hate the rich or is it because the rich control them.
No doubt you will reply still in denial. So I will just say, that's my last word on it. It is 100% fact the ultra rich have a big big say in what a leader of a large country like the USA does. Utter fact. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 12:53 - Apr 12 with 597 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Handmaids Tale on 09:13 - Apr 11 by jopreston |
Does it matter which of them is leading it all? The fast is, Jelly is right in what he says. President Trump does what he is told in many respects and the people telling him what he must do are part of this group of 3,000 billionaires. |
... and the rot truly set in when JFK was assassinitated publically, as he wanted to break the CIA into a thousand pieces and din't want to send trrops to Vietnam, and started to go after the mafia.
The current world power has had 4 presidents assassinated, and some say the figure is actually 6. All of these presidents were taken out for particualr reasons.
Trump is now under the thumb, and will just tow the line like all previous presidents.
I wonder how this 'democratic' process is controlled?? |  |
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| Handmaids Tale on 13:08 - Apr 12 with 585 views | jopreston |
| Handmaids Tale on 12:53 - Apr 12 by 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
... and the rot truly set in when JFK was assassinitated publically, as he wanted to break the CIA into a thousand pieces and din't want to send trrops to Vietnam, and started to go after the mafia.
The current world power has had 4 presidents assassinated, and some say the figure is actually 6. All of these presidents were taken out for particualr reasons.
Trump is now under the thumb, and will just tow the line like all previous presidents.
I wonder how this 'democratic' process is controlled?? |
You beat me to it. I was going to mention the JFK saga. People are able to see the truth but in so many cases they are unwilling to accept it. It's a fear of realising just how fecked up things are. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 10:48 - Apr 14 with 472 views | saint901 |
I think I hold two positions on Trump, one of which may come to the fore when the Republicans get decimated in the mid terms next year or both may continue to be partly true (to me) until he is removed.
First, is that he has a character flaw in that he craves the admiration of those he perceives as powerful or influential. His father was a successful businessman and bailed DJT out a few times. I think Trump is always therefore looking to secure that sort of attention from billionaires etc so that he can think himself also one of the "success club" members. The reality is that he is at best a mediocre businessman and that is why he has to resort to borderline illegal tactics to preserve whatever kudos he thinks he has.
Where he has been successful is in realising what he needs to do to be elected. He basically needs to give people what they think they need and to promise to "take it to the man" on issues that have popular appeal such as immigration and inflation. In all cases, he exaggerates and lies and makes U turns (especially when he runs into issues being dealt with by real intelligent adults, such as the global economy).
Because he tells people what they want to hear, they vote for him. Admitting you are wrong in something and changing your position, takes real courage because nobody likes to think that they were fooled or wrong. It will take some sort of huge disaster for the rural voters in the US to make that change.
Second, he may be the fall guy for some form of cabal wishing to change the world order. If that cabal is looking to grow their wealth, they're not going to be happy about recent events. If their aim is some form of political power, the isolation of the US from Europe and China does not seem to me to be very sensible.
The USA is the world's biggest consumer of just about everything. They no longer have the industrial infrastructure to be self sustaining because its cheaper to buy from abroad than make it "at home". Becoming isolated (because it's too expensive to sell goods there or because US citizens have no appetite for expensive goods) again does not seem to fit any realistic plan or objective for whomever might be running trump.
On balance - at the moment - I see him as a man desperately seeking approval - at all costs - but hopelessly out of depth and learning that being surrounded by sycophants and one trick conspiracy theorists is not going to make things better. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 20:10 - Apr 14 with 401 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 10:48 - Apr 14 by saint901 |
I think I hold two positions on Trump, one of which may come to the fore when the Republicans get decimated in the mid terms next year or both may continue to be partly true (to me) until he is removed.
First, is that he has a character flaw in that he craves the admiration of those he perceives as powerful or influential. His father was a successful businessman and bailed DJT out a few times. I think Trump is always therefore looking to secure that sort of attention from billionaires etc so that he can think himself also one of the "success club" members. The reality is that he is at best a mediocre businessman and that is why he has to resort to borderline illegal tactics to preserve whatever kudos he thinks he has.
Where he has been successful is in realising what he needs to do to be elected. He basically needs to give people what they think they need and to promise to "take it to the man" on issues that have popular appeal such as immigration and inflation. In all cases, he exaggerates and lies and makes U turns (especially when he runs into issues being dealt with by real intelligent adults, such as the global economy).
Because he tells people what they want to hear, they vote for him. Admitting you are wrong in something and changing your position, takes real courage because nobody likes to think that they were fooled or wrong. It will take some sort of huge disaster for the rural voters in the US to make that change.
Second, he may be the fall guy for some form of cabal wishing to change the world order. If that cabal is looking to grow their wealth, they're not going to be happy about recent events. If their aim is some form of political power, the isolation of the US from Europe and China does not seem to me to be very sensible.
The USA is the world's biggest consumer of just about everything. They no longer have the industrial infrastructure to be self sustaining because its cheaper to buy from abroad than make it "at home". Becoming isolated (because it's too expensive to sell goods there or because US citizens have no appetite for expensive goods) again does not seem to fit any realistic plan or objective for whomever might be running trump.
On balance - at the moment - I see him as a man desperately seeking approval - at all costs - but hopelessly out of depth and learning that being surrounded by sycophants and one trick conspiracy theorists is not going to make things better. |
This is progress 901, slowly you are entertaining the idea that there are "shadowy elites" behind the stage pulling strings, as Aristotle said: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 08:38 - Apr 15 with 351 views | saint901 |
How's that proof coming along M r J?
Progress? I look at those facts easily obtainable and which I have time or appetite for and can see no hand controlling Trump. | | | |
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