| Bedarek pen appeal 19:07 - Feb 3 with 1621 views | DorsetIan |
Here is the rule:
"Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs.
Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off."
Second para applies. The difficult is that IF 'THE REFEREE AWARDS A PENALTY KICK' then the rule is really harsh - not attempting to the play the ball then 'must be' sent off. So it was either a pen and Bed off, or no pen. They may refuse to even look at the pen because the rule doesn't ask whether the pen was right or wrong, just whether it was awarded by the ref.
The first para is interesting. If you deny a goalscoring opportunity with your hand, you should also always be send off. So if the Matty Cash one was a pen, he should have gone too.
And his was a pen. The rule that says it mustn't come off your body, doesn't apply if your arm is making your body wider, as his was.
|  |
| |  |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 19:17 - Feb 3 with 1589 views | saint22 |
Why make it so hard and complicated?
The problem here is that Bednarek looked to genuinely try and get out of the way so surely the rules implies that if you make no attempt to play the ball but you are attempting to stop that player scoring by pulling pushing holding etc but Jan wasn't doing that at all so its a bit inconclusive really | | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 19:29 - Feb 3 with 1557 views | DorsetIan |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 19:17 - Feb 3 by saint22 |
Why make it so hard and complicated?
The problem here is that Bednarek looked to genuinely try and get out of the way so surely the rules implies that if you make no attempt to play the ball but you are attempting to stop that player scoring by pulling pushing holding etc but Jan wasn't doing that at all so its a bit inconclusive really |
Trouble is it says ' in all other circumstances' and the list of things are examples not an exhaustive list.
You're right the caveat should say 'is making a deliberate attempt on the ball OR is making a deliberate attempt to avoid a foul' but it doesn't say this.
The whole thing is really badly worded. For example 'is' sent off in para one and 'must be' sent off in para two.
Demonstrates again what sort of amateurs are in charge of all this. | |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 19:36 - Feb 3 with 1534 views | 1885_SFC |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 19:29 - Feb 3 by DorsetIan |
Trouble is it says ' in all other circumstances' and the list of things are examples not an exhaustive list.
You're right the caveat should say 'is making a deliberate attempt on the ball OR is making a deliberate attempt to avoid a foul' but it doesn't say this.
The whole thing is really badly worded. For example 'is' sent off in para one and 'must be' sent off in para two.
Demonstrates again what sort of amateurs are in charge of all this. |
Yep, and also demonstrates why VAR should be binned ASAP.
What a load of technological shÃt. |  |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 20:16 - Feb 3 with 1484 views | Bazza |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 19:36 - Feb 3 by 1885_SFC |
Yep, and also demonstrates why VAR should be binned ASAP.
What a load of technological shÃt. |
Got nothing to do with VAR system which is just a sophisticated camera. People blame VAR when they should be blaming the very poor analyses or interpretation of the VAR evidence by the referee/ VAR official. Other sports seem to have very few issues with their VAR type systems and their officials use them to enhance their decision accuracy. Football referees seem reluctant to use VAR properly perhaps fearing loss of their authority, or maybe they’re just rubbish or biased referees. | | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 20:31 - Feb 3 with 1463 views | TimSaint |
Martial admitted it wasn't even a foul, so he should be the one getting the card - the cheating, diving cvnt !!
You watch though, the FA will come up with some bollox explanation to protect their man and his decision. They will probably upgrade the length of ban as well, because a club such as Southampton have dared appeal !! |  |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 20:41 - Feb 3 with 1446 views | DorsetIan |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 20:16 - Feb 3 by Bazza |
Got nothing to do with VAR system which is just a sophisticated camera. People blame VAR when they should be blaming the very poor analyses or interpretation of the VAR evidence by the referee/ VAR official. Other sports seem to have very few issues with their VAR type systems and their officials use them to enhance their decision accuracy. Football referees seem reluctant to use VAR properly perhaps fearing loss of their authority, or maybe they’re just rubbish or biased referees. |
It isn't relevant that other sports have systems that work. It just shows that VAR - which has caused utter chaos - doesn't and should be scrapped, or radically changed.
I have no objection to some form of video assistance but a system that acts as a check on abysmal onfield decisions only - not one that purports to offer some sort of bionic vision which no ref or linesman in the world could possess.
That's the problem. We don't need microscopes and a computer telling us which of two people who are 'in line' is minutely in front of the other, or whether a ball has caressed someone's thigh on the way to his obvious handball.
Reign it in, apply some common sense, allow some decisions to go 'undecided'. Just f*cking sort it out before it drives us all insane! | |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 20:52 - Feb 3 with 1436 views | inthebox |
Apparently the monitor froze so Mason couldn't view the front view, so the appeal could stand on technical ground, saving Mason's face | | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 21:33 - Feb 3 with 1384 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 20:52 - Feb 3 by inthebox |
Apparently the monitor froze so Mason couldn't view the front view, so the appeal could stand on technical ground, saving Mason's face |
So why did Dean do the square box sign to say VAR aided his decision when in fact, it was totally ignored |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Bedarek pen appeal on 22:05 - Feb 3 with 1356 views | Foreverred |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 19:29 - Feb 3 by DorsetIan |
Trouble is it says ' in all other circumstances' and the list of things are examples not an exhaustive list.
You're right the caveat should say 'is making a deliberate attempt on the ball OR is making a deliberate attempt to avoid a foul' but it doesn't say this.
The whole thing is really badly worded. For example 'is' sent off in para one and 'must be' sent off in para two.
Demonstrates again what sort of amateurs are in charge of all this. |
It is supposed to be one of the best league in the world, being run by amateurs. Mike dean believes he is bigger than the game itself, very arrogant, full of his own self importance , once he crosses the field of play he acts as a dictator, don’t question me this is my domain. He rarely allows the game to flow, and has to be the centre of attention, spoiling the game as a spectacle.
At the end of play no one is talking about the game itself because he has taken centre stage.
I think he is a frustrated ex amateur footballer who never made the grade , and gets his fix from having his photo all over the sports pages. |  | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 05:52 - Feb 4 with 1236 views | 1ASIN12 |
Is the rule still if you lose an appeal you get a 3 game ban?
I’m not sure it’s worth the risk to be honest. | | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 07:13 - Feb 4 with 1188 views | saint22 |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 20:52 - Feb 3 by inthebox |
Apparently the monitor froze so Mason couldn't view the front view, so the appeal could stand on technical ground, saving Mason's face |
Exactly I said this yesterday
Dean looks at a still on the monitor so the technology failed so rescind
VAR isn’t the problem it’s officials | | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 11:20 - Feb 4 with 1096 views | Berber |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 21:33 - Feb 3 by kingslandstand1 |
So why did Dean do the square box sign to say VAR aided his decision when in fact, it was totally ignored |
But he was advised by the VAR official, even if his look at the screen was cursory. I don't like or agree with the decision (or the ref) but he's entitled to use the screen sign in this case. |  | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 14:05 - Feb 4 with 998 views | Bazza |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 20:41 - Feb 3 by DorsetIan |
It isn't relevant that other sports have systems that work. It just shows that VAR - which has caused utter chaos - doesn't and should be scrapped, or radically changed.
I have no objection to some form of video assistance but a system that acts as a check on abysmal onfield decisions only - not one that purports to offer some sort of bionic vision which no ref or linesman in the world could possess.
That's the problem. We don't need microscopes and a computer telling us which of two people who are 'in line' is minutely in front of the other, or whether a ball has caressed someone's thigh on the way to his obvious handball.
Reign it in, apply some common sense, allow some decisions to go 'undecided'. Just f*cking sort it out before it drives us all insane! |
Agree VAR should be improved. However if referees don't use common sense to utilise it fairly or are just useless then no system will help.
But do you really want to throw away the assistance offered by VAR? That's like throwing away a new phone because you can fathom out the controls. Maybe referees need better training to learn less arrogant, more common sense behaviour as used by officials in other sports.
Look forward to this weekend's Rugby with its high class referees and sensible video refs. | | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 14:22 - Feb 4 with 987 views | DorsetIan |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 14:05 - Feb 4 by Bazza |
Agree VAR should be improved. However if referees don't use common sense to utilise it fairly or are just useless then no system will help.
But do you really want to throw away the assistance offered by VAR? That's like throwing away a new phone because you can fathom out the controls. Maybe referees need better training to learn less arrogant, more common sense behaviour as used by officials in other sports.
Look forward to this weekend's Rugby with its high class referees and sensible video refs. |
Where we disagree is that I don't believe that this system can be improved. It's fundamentally flawed because it looks at things in far too much detail and therefore doesn't just help with decisions, it changes them fundamentally.
Take the two Ings and Adams offside decisions. Ask 100 people are they in front of the defender, behind the defender, or in line with the defender? 100 people will say 'in line'. So 100 people think they are in line and therefore they are not offside. Not difficult, not controversial, not creating any unfairness, not a problem that needs to be fixed.
But, no, VAR says 'in line' means no part of the body is in front of the defender, and then detects a tiny part of the body in front. 'You all think they are in line but they are not. They are in front. Aha! They're offside. Aren't we clever. Isn't football fun!'
It's this sort of thing over and over and over gain.
I say scrap it because I think they need to start from scratch with it, and for as long as they don't scrap it this nonsense will just continue.
It's like a plane the develops a problem. When they realise that something is up they immediately ground every plane of that type until there are 100% sure they have fixed it.
With VAR they just keep flying. No system at all is better than this. Stop it, fix it, and bring back something more sensible. | |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 15:21 - Feb 4 with 952 views | PaleRider |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 14:22 - Feb 4 by DorsetIan |
Where we disagree is that I don't believe that this system can be improved. It's fundamentally flawed because it looks at things in far too much detail and therefore doesn't just help with decisions, it changes them fundamentally.
Take the two Ings and Adams offside decisions. Ask 100 people are they in front of the defender, behind the defender, or in line with the defender? 100 people will say 'in line'. So 100 people think they are in line and therefore they are not offside. Not difficult, not controversial, not creating any unfairness, not a problem that needs to be fixed.
But, no, VAR says 'in line' means no part of the body is in front of the defender, and then detects a tiny part of the body in front. 'You all think they are in line but they are not. They are in front. Aha! They're offside. Aren't we clever. Isn't football fun!'
It's this sort of thing over and over and over gain.
I say scrap it because I think they need to start from scratch with it, and for as long as they don't scrap it this nonsense will just continue.
It's like a plane the develops a problem. When they realise that something is up they immediately ground every plane of that type until there are 100% sure they have fixed it.
With VAR they just keep flying. No system at all is better than this. Stop it, fix it, and bring back something more sensible. |
Ian, was it just luck that VAR worked at the 2018 World Cup? Is it luck that video technology works in a multitude of other sports - from rugby and cricket to fencing?
No, the problem runs deeper - our referees are sub-standard (either incompetent or corrupt - I haven't decided yet). It's not that long ago that you could expect an English referee officiating at the later stages of the World Cup - in 2018 they didn't even select one to be a linesman!
So the problem can be solved:
1) Maybe we should get foreign officials to run our VAR. Many of them already speak English and seem to referee quite well;
2) Our officials should try and learn from their mistakes. Football at the top levels is rich enough to be able to do really good and detailed analysis of individual referees' performance. This analysis should be transparent and made publicly available;
3) Make the rules clearer - this can be done very easily around the issue of in-line. Alternatively there could be a time limit around the VAR decision. If you can't make an offside decision within a minute then it's not offside - after a linesman in a game without VAR has only a split second.
VAR is not the problem - it's the muppets that run it. | | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 15:54 - Feb 4 with 919 views | dirk_doone |
Mike Dean is a joke:
Simon Peach
@SimonPeach
·
Feb 2
Laughter in the press box at Mike Dean's decision
Rilwan
@Ril_balla
·
Feb 2
Replying to
@SimonPeach
I’d be f--king laughing too, not a red not even a penalty tbh and I’m a United fan
Even Harry Maguire tried to argue Dean out of giving a red card to Bednarek but he wouldn't listen.
It is funny that a referee can be that bad and continue to get away with it but, of course, it's not so funny when you are on the receiving end of it. It's a shame they scrapped the compulsory retirement age for referees or Dean would have already been gone three years ago, As it is, he can continue for many more years ruining games for us. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 16:02]
|  |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 16:44 - Feb 4 with 862 views | dirk_doone |
But, the question remains, why is Dean allowed to continue refereeing, when he is clearly so incompetent and biased? [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 16:45]
| |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 16:54 - Feb 4 with 843 views | DorsetIan |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 15:21 - Feb 4 by PaleRider |
Ian, was it just luck that VAR worked at the 2018 World Cup? Is it luck that video technology works in a multitude of other sports - from rugby and cricket to fencing?
No, the problem runs deeper - our referees are sub-standard (either incompetent or corrupt - I haven't decided yet). It's not that long ago that you could expect an English referee officiating at the later stages of the World Cup - in 2018 they didn't even select one to be a linesman!
So the problem can be solved:
1) Maybe we should get foreign officials to run our VAR. Many of them already speak English and seem to referee quite well;
2) Our officials should try and learn from their mistakes. Football at the top levels is rich enough to be able to do really good and detailed analysis of individual referees' performance. This analysis should be transparent and made publicly available;
3) Make the rules clearer - this can be done very easily around the issue of in-line. Alternatively there could be a time limit around the VAR decision. If you can't make an offside decision within a minute then it's not offside - after a linesman in a game without VAR has only a split second.
VAR is not the problem - it's the muppets that run it. |
I'm not trying to defend the muppets that run it. But the VAR system is flawed too, for the reason I set out. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
In other sports it works, that doesn't mean that ours does. Different sports, different systems.
The problems can be solved, but not by limping on with VAR in its current form. | |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 16:59 - Feb 4 with 842 views | stmichael |
Because he would bring the whole corrupt system down with him. People would probably end up in jail.. | |
| |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 21:53 - Feb 4 with 805 views | Messysaints |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 16:54 - Feb 4 by DorsetIan |
I'm not trying to defend the muppets that run it. But the VAR system is flawed too, for the reason I set out. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
In other sports it works, that doesn't mean that ours does. Different sports, different systems.
The problems can be solved, but not by limping on with VAR in its current form. |
Dont get the problems the EPL gets in others leagues though, watch Spanish football, you dont even notice it most of the time and they have none of the shitfest we seem to be getting with so many wrong decisions every weekend, nor Germany, Italy, Portugal, France ( had loads at start but has slowly sorted its self out ), the list is endless, in fact, its used in every top league in the world and the only one really having huge issues is the EPL.
Question you need to ask is, why just the EPL? every round of fixtures too..... | | | |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 22:14 - Feb 4 with 784 views | dirk_doone |
| Bedarek pen appeal on 21:53 - Feb 4 by Messysaints |
Dont get the problems the EPL gets in others leagues though, watch Spanish football, you dont even notice it most of the time and they have none of the shitfest we seem to be getting with so many wrong decisions every weekend, nor Germany, Italy, Portugal, France ( had loads at start but has slowly sorted its self out ), the list is endless, in fact, its used in every top league in the world and the only one really having huge issues is the EPL.
Question you need to ask is, why just the EPL? every round of fixtures too..... |
Very good post. It also works very well in major international competitions, where they have competent officials. I liken it to the intoduction of the video referrral system in test cricket, where we went from Ashes series in Australia where no Aussie umpire would give an lbw decision to an English bowler but would instead shout, 'Not out you Pommie bastard' to something a bit fairer and more transparent.
The spontaneity of the goal celebration is lost and that is a big loss but anything that makes officiating fairer for clubs like ours against the big teams favoured by referees, is a small step in the right direction. Of course, the old boys club of Mike Dean and Lee Mason have still found a way to try to favour their big northern teams. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
