| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:18 - Sep 21 with 3761 views | joe90 |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 13:40 - Sep 21 by Antti_Heinola |
agree with the sentiment, but ultimately, it's less about the EFL than costly legal proceedings isn't it? We all think the EFL should be able to deduct whatever the rules say, but it's not so black and white and they won't want to be dragged through the courts on it. |
I guess so. But it does seem strange to have rules that can't be enforced. Everyone's pushing the rules to their limits to some extent, but there has to be a line you can't cross. |  | |  |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:44 - Sep 21 with 3673 views | daveB |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 13:35 - Sep 21 by Benny_the_Ball |
Whilst I share your scepticism on the actual punishment Derby will receive, our problems began in 2011, long before we won the play-offs. That season saw a recruitment drive that rocketed the wage bill north of £70m pa. With no relegation clauses in place, the club were lumbered with this wage bill when it was relegated back to the championship in 2013. Winning the play-offs in 2014 probably saved us from a similar fate to Derby and, conversely, sealed theirs. In hindsight, that match really was them or us. |
Derby only really started the over spending after that final, the team for that final was pretty good and had potential to go up but with each spectacular failure they spent more and more to chase the dream |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 16:43 - Sep 21 with 3540 views | QPR_John |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:08 - Sep 21 by WatfordR |
Surely we've already established that the EFL can do whatever they wish, when our appeal process established it was their competition, so their rules apply whether they are legally enforceable or not, and when they then threatened us with expulsion from the Football League if we chose to legally challenge the appeal?
You know, take them to court if you want, but if they are within their rights to exclude your club from league football, where's that going to get you? |
“ so their rules apply whether they are legally enforceable or not, and when they then threatened us with expulsion from the Football League if we chose to legally challenge the appeal? ”
Are you suggesting the FL are above the law |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 18:34 - Sep 21 with 3388 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:44 - Sep 21 by daveB |
Derby only really started the over spending after that final, the team for that final was pretty good and had potential to go up but with each spectacular failure they spent more and more to chase the dream |
They've been spending for years, that's how they assembled that decent team in the first place. The difference is that in recent years the spending has been funded through creative accounting. |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 18:37 - Sep 21 with 3376 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:00 - Sep 21 by slmrstid |
2014 definitely saved us, but I'm not sure I'd agree on the sealing Derby's fate part - their spending splurges and subsequent financial chicanery started well after that - 2015/16 time onwards seems to be when it really started to take off. |
I don't think Derby's spending necessarily started then but I would agree in hindsight that my language was incorrect. What I meant say was that it marked the beginning of Derby's downward spiral. QPR would have spun down the same spiral had we not been victorious that day.
That play-off final was real sliding doors moment for both clubs. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 18:40 - Sep 21 with 3370 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:47 - Sep 21 by Juzzie |
They got to the final again in 2019 and nerfed that up too. |
Good point. Ultimately the gambles didn't pay off. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 19:24 - Sep 21 with 3289 views | kensalriser |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 16:43 - Sep 21 by QPR_John |
“ so their rules apply whether they are legally enforceable or not, and when they then threatened us with expulsion from the Football League if we chose to legally challenge the appeal? ”
Are you suggesting the FL are above the law |
It's a professional members' club which is entitled to set its own rules. |  |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 20:13 - Sep 21 with 3228 views | QPR_John |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 19:24 - Sep 21 by kensalriser |
It's a professional members' club which is entitled to set its own rules. |
Interesting defence in a court of law. | | | |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 23:10 - Sep 21 with 3056 views | WatfordR |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 16:43 - Sep 21 by QPR_John |
“ so their rules apply whether they are legally enforceable or not, and when they then threatened us with expulsion from the Football League if we chose to legally challenge the appeal? ”
Are you suggesting the FL are above the law |
I'm suggesting you can take them to court if you like, you can win a case against them, but all that is pointless if they can simply throw you out of their competitions because your football club won't have anywhere to compete or earn money. |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 23:35 - Sep 21 with 3003 views | CiderwithRsie |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 20:13 - Sep 21 by QPR_John |
Interesting defence in a court of law. |
And completely effective.
This is how clubs have been stiffing the likes of St John Ambulance for years. Club goes into administration but still pays all its "football debts" (e.g. transfer fees) because those are the rules of the FA. St John's and small traders supplying goods and services get what they can (i.e. FA, so to speak) after players, agents, other clubs etc have been paid.
In law football debts have no priority but that counts for nothing because the only way of getting anything at all out of an insolvent club is to keep the thing going under new owners which is only possible if you meet the league and FA rules. Theoretically a majority of creditors could vote to wind the club up but they'll never do that as they'd get even less.
At a higher level FIFA, UEFA and the IOC have been getting away with literally criminal corruption for decades because they own their sports and no-one wants to shut down sport. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:00 - Sep 22 with 2829 views | loftboy |
Administration confirmed, Derby now on -2 [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 14:34]
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:12 - Sep 22 with 2760 views | QPR_John |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 23:10 - Sep 21 by WatfordR |
I'm suggesting you can take them to court if you like, you can win a case against them, but all that is pointless if they can simply throw you out of their competitions because your football club won't have anywhere to compete or earn money. |
Surely a rule which allows an organisation to threaten the business of a member if said member goes to court cannot be in itself enforceable in law. But clearly your legal knowledge is better than mine. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:12 - Sep 22 with 2757 views | enfieldargh |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:00 - Sep 22 by loftboy |
Administration confirmed, Derby now on -2 [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 14:34]
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looks like the been naughty again, now on -2 |  |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:13 - Sep 22 with 2749 views | francisbowles |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 16:43 - Sep 21 by QPR_John |
“ so their rules apply whether they are legally enforceable or not, and when they then threatened us with expulsion from the Football League if we chose to legally challenge the appeal? ”
Are you suggesting the FL are above the law |
Not sure what difference it makes, but I believe what they threatened was to refuse us fixtures for the following season, not actual expulsion.
No one, not the club or the league wants to end up in court. It could be very lengthy and costly and meanwhile the season has started and could have played several weeks or months or it could even be finished before a resolution is found. Meanwhile the 'offending club has not played and has still to pay its players without any revenue coming in. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:15 - Sep 22 with 2732 views | stowmarketrange |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:12 - Sep 22 by enfieldargh |
looks like the been naughty again, now on -2 |
They were on 10 points so -12 equals -2. [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 14:16]
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:22 - Sep 22 with 2687 views | Toast_R |
They will still stay up with that IMO. Wonder when the rest of the hurt is gonna rain down on them? |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:50 - Sep 22 with 2633 views | WatfordR |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:12 - Sep 22 by QPR_John |
Surely a rule which allows an organisation to threaten the business of a member if said member goes to court cannot be in itself enforceable in law. But clearly your legal knowledge is better than mine. |
I'm not sure why this should be so difficult to understand.
If you are a member of an organisation which grants you membership on its terms, and they decide that you are not abiding by their terms, then they can suspend or withdraw your membership. Law has nothing to do with it. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:22 - Sep 22 with 2535 views | kensalriser |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 20:13 - Sep 21 by QPR_John |
Interesting defence in a court of law. |
Try taking QPR to court because you're not allowed to sit in the Lower Loft as an adult without an accompanying child. | |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 19:29 - Sep 22 with 2290 views | QPR_John |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:22 - Sep 22 by kensalriser |
Try taking QPR to court because you're not allowed to sit in the Lower Loft as an adult without an accompanying child. |
Really what has that got to do with it. I’ve never suggested clubs cannot have rules for their members. What I am saying is those rules cannot legalise actions that are illegal as defined by the laws of the land | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 19:35 - Sep 22 with 2265 views | QPR_John |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:50 - Sep 22 by WatfordR |
I'm not sure why this should be so difficult to understand.
If you are a member of an organisation which grants you membership on its terms, and they decide that you are not abiding by their terms, then they can suspend or withdraw your membership. Law has nothing to do with it. |
My point is that those terms cannot deny the right to seek redress in the courts. The law of the land takes precedence over the rules of any organisation. I’m not sure why this should be so difficult to understand . | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 19:38 - Sep 22 with 2261 views | kensalriser |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 19:29 - Sep 22 by QPR_John |
Really what has that got to do with it. I’ve never suggested clubs cannot have rules for their members. What I am saying is those rules cannot legalise actions that are illegal as defined by the laws of the land |
It's got everything to do with it. It's not a legal requirement to have a child with you to sit in the Lower Loft, but the club stipulates it. The same concept applies to the League's rules.
Clearly the League's accounting requirements for members aren't illegal because if they were they would have been tested and found to be so in court by now. | |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 19:42 - Sep 22 with 2239 views | QPR_John |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 19:38 - Sep 22 by kensalriser |
It's got everything to do with it. It's not a legal requirement to have a child with you to sit in the Lower Loft, but the club stipulates it. The same concept applies to the League's rules.
Clearly the League's accounting requirements for members aren't illegal because if they were they would have been tested and found to be so in court by now. |
But it is a legal requirement that spectators do not run on the pitch or that there can be no standing. No club ever stipulated those rules but are required to follow then. Just to reiterate I am not saying the league cannot make rules for their competition, there is no statute why a football cannot be handled for instance, what they cannot do is make rules contrary to the law of the land. I maintain a ruling that threatens to penalise the right to seek redress in a court of law is illegal [Post edited 22 Sep 2021 19:50]
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 21:33 - Sep 23 with 1937 views | terryb |
I'm told that Kieran Maquire states that they owe HMRC £26 million & that HMRC started winding up proceedures against them in January 2020. I assume that would have gone on the back burner when Covid came calling.
However, we know from Mel Morris that the debts are purely due to the pandemic. Is this a case of him telling porkies or just mistaken? [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 21:40]
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 21:36 - Sep 23 with 1933 views | Northernr |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 21:33 - Sep 23 by terryb |
I'm told that Kieran Maquire states that they owe HMRC £26 million & that HMRC started winding up proceedures against them in January 2020. I assume that would have gone on the back burner when Covid came calling.
However, we know from Mel Morris that the debts are purely due to the pandemic. Is this a case of him telling porkies or just mistaken? [Post edited 23 Sep 2021 21:40]
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I presume there's a decimal point missing there. |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 21:40 - Sep 23 with 1904 views | terryb |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 21:36 - Sep 23 by Northernr |
I presume there's a decimal point missing there. |
Edited!
The £ sign replaces the 3! | | | |
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