| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts 23:22 - Aug 7 with 17417 views | KeithHaynes |
A young man who wants to play football.
Sunday evening supplement. From 5pm.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| |  |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:11 - Aug 12 with 1210 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:02 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
I think it's a longer term plan than that. Same as with Potter. I don't think any of the owners thought for one minute that we'd finish 6th and then 4th in Cooper's firsts seasons as a manager. |
Football is never long term, as Potter showed.
Be it due to success or failure, it's unlikely Russ will be our manager in much longer than 2 years time. He will either be sacked or move onto better things... or even quit if he doesn't feel the club matches his vision.
01/08/2021 - 30/06/2024 Russell Martin - (????)
01/07/2019 - 21/07/2021 Steve Cooper - (2 years 0 months)
01/07/2018 - 30/06/2019 Graham Potter - (1 year 0 Months)
28/12/2017 - 30/06/2018 Carlos Carvalhal - (7 months)
03/01/2017 - 20/12/2017 Paul Clement - (11 months)
03/10/2016 - 27/12/2016 Bob Bradley - (3 months)
19/01/2016 - 03/10/2016 Francesco Guidolin (10 months)
05/02/2014 - 09/12/2015 Garry Monk - (1 year 10 months)
01/07/2012 - 04/02/2014 Michael Laudrup - (1 year 7 months)
01/07/2010 - 31/05/2012 Brendan Rodgers - (1 year 10 months)
01/07/2009 - 04/07/2010 Paulo Sousa - (1 year 0 months)
24/02/2007 - 30/06/2009 Roberto MartÃnez - (2 years 4 months)
This trend of no manager reaching the 3 year mark, continues right back to Frank Burrows 1991-1995. Over a quarter of a century ago.
Football has changed. [Post edited 12 Aug 2021 10:19]
|  |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:24 - Aug 12 with 1185 views | jack247 |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:02 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
I think it's a longer term plan than that. Same as with Potter. I don't think any of the owners thought for one minute that we'd finish 6th and then 4th in Cooper's firsts seasons as a manager. |
The problem with mid-long term plans is that if it goes well, the manager invariably gets poached. If we play Rodgers style football and finish say 7th or 8th, or miss out in the playoffs, a prem team will be in for him.
Having a plan in place to play a certain style of football and appoint managers accordingly, like we did from Marinez to Laudrup is more realistic. |  | | |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:30 - Aug 12 with 1176 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 01:43 - Aug 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Back to salaries, this one is an updated one for this season, which is interesting.
This company works with a network of agents and sell the data they harvest. Some are verified, some have used an algo to give best estimates. Again they are there or there abouts with the other lists that are available online.
I forecasted around £11m from memory when projecting the wage bill for this year, slotting us somewhere in mid table. I assume when we do get the signings through the door then it will sit around that figure.
Now Ayew and the loans are out the door it’s got us at just shy of £9m (minus a couple of notable exceptions).
Flynn Downes isn’t there for example, which would tip that balance to over £9m and they also don’t have verified figures for Walsh, Piroe, Garrick, Joseph and Cullen so have them on ‘zero unlisted’, that puts us at around £10m p/a currently, which sounds about right. In that ball park.
While some of them may not be to the exact pounds and pence, I have no doubt they will be around the mark. Subscriptions to this site starts at $3000 USD per annum:-
https://capology.com/club/swansea/salaries/ [Post edited 12 Aug 2021 7:21]
|
Wow, who would pay 3k a year for that?
Clubs and agents? |  |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:33 - Aug 12 with 1169 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:24 - Aug 12 by jack247 |
The problem with mid-long term plans is that if it goes well, the manager invariably gets poached. If we play Rodgers style football and finish say 7th or 8th, or miss out in the playoffs, a prem team will be in for him.
Having a plan in place to play a certain style of football and appoint managers accordingly, like we did from Marinez to Laudrup is more realistic. |
Agreed.
We never got to a crossroads since the beginning of that journey though is what I would say to that. It essentially worked from the off, we didn't finish out of the top 10 in any season since its implementation until we got to the Premier League, and then it was there or there abouts top 10 (12th/11th wasn't it?).
So while long term strategies are all well and good, they only continue to be long term strategies if they are showing short term successes. As backward as that sounds.
Any whiff of a relegation battle and I'm sure the brakes will be put on it quicker than you can sing the US National Anthem 
This season is vital that we finish in a respectable position, even if it's just to buy time to bed it in longer. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:34 - Aug 12 with 1165 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:30 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
Wow, who would pay 3k a year for that?
Clubs and agents? |
No idea, researchers I guess, cooperate journalism maybe. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:39 - Aug 12 with 1157 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:11 - Aug 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Football is never long term, as Potter showed.
Be it due to success or failure, it's unlikely Russ will be our manager in much longer than 2 years time. He will either be sacked or move onto better things... or even quit if he doesn't feel the club matches his vision.
01/08/2021 - 30/06/2024 Russell Martin - (????)
01/07/2019 - 21/07/2021 Steve Cooper - (2 years 0 months)
01/07/2018 - 30/06/2019 Graham Potter - (1 year 0 Months)
28/12/2017 - 30/06/2018 Carlos Carvalhal - (7 months)
03/01/2017 - 20/12/2017 Paul Clement - (11 months)
03/10/2016 - 27/12/2016 Bob Bradley - (3 months)
19/01/2016 - 03/10/2016 Francesco Guidolin (10 months)
05/02/2014 - 09/12/2015 Garry Monk - (1 year 10 months)
01/07/2012 - 04/02/2014 Michael Laudrup - (1 year 7 months)
01/07/2010 - 31/05/2012 Brendan Rodgers - (1 year 10 months)
01/07/2009 - 04/07/2010 Paulo Sousa - (1 year 0 months)
24/02/2007 - 30/06/2009 Roberto MartÃnez - (2 years 4 months)
This trend of no manager reaching the 3 year mark, continues right back to Frank Burrows 1991-1995. Over a quarter of a century ago.
Football has changed. [Post edited 12 Aug 2021 10:19]
|
Yeah, I agree, but I don't think a mid table finish is a sacking offence.
I remember I was happy to accept 17th in the league in Potter's first season. Since then, my picture of this division and our record since relegation, has increased my expectations somewhat.
I don't think Martin will get sacked this season, as long as he keeps us up.
Then as long as progression is seen, it will be ongoing.
I think he will get poached from us if anything. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:47 - Aug 12 with 1142 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:39 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
Yeah, I agree, but I don't think a mid table finish is a sacking offence.
I remember I was happy to accept 17th in the league in Potter's first season. Since then, my picture of this division and our record since relegation, has increased my expectations somewhat.
I don't think Martin will get sacked this season, as long as he keeps us up.
Then as long as progression is seen, it will be ongoing.
I think he will get poached from us if anything. |
Mid table is fine, but I don't class 17th as mid table.
For example 17th year before last was 5 points above the relegation zone, that would be far too close for comfort.
17th in Potters first season with the squad we had would have been embarrassing, 10th wasn't great either. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:51 - Aug 12 with 1137 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:47 - Aug 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Mid table is fine, but I don't class 17th as mid table.
For example 17th year before last was 5 points above the relegation zone, that would be far too close for comfort.
17th in Potters first season with the squad we had would have been embarrassing, 10th wasn't great either. |
Im just stating what I personally would have been happy with at the time.
I'm not happy with 17th now. However, I wouldn't be calling for Martin's head, as long as we stay up, are playing good football and there are reasons for the position with clear signs of ongoing progression. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:58 - Aug 12 with 1126 views | Badlands |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:39 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
Yeah, I agree, but I don't think a mid table finish is a sacking offence.
I remember I was happy to accept 17th in the league in Potter's first season. Since then, my picture of this division and our record since relegation, has increased my expectations somewhat.
I don't think Martin will get sacked this season, as long as he keeps us up.
Then as long as progression is seen, it will be ongoing.
I think he will get poached from us if anything. |
If he gets above half way playing atractove football he’ll be poached. |  |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:09 - Aug 12 with 1117 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:58 - Aug 12 by Badlands |
If he gets above half way playing atractove football he’ll be poached. |
You reckon?
I think he'd need a decent-high finish for prem clubs to take a chance on him. He finished below mid table in League1 last year. He's also proud of the fact that he has no plan B, or any intention of implementing one. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:23 - Aug 12 with 1093 views | Whiterockin |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:09 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
You reckon?
I think he'd need a decent-high finish for prem clubs to take a chance on him. He finished below mid table in League1 last year. He's also proud of the fact that he has no plan B, or any intention of implementing one. |
Get playing attractive football and reasonable results and we will be the darlings of Sky again, with more live coverage and the profile that goes with it. Play offs and attractive football and he will definitely be poached. Unlike our last manger who we couldn't offload and had to part ways by mutual agreement. |  | | |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:29 - Aug 12 with 1074 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:23 - Aug 12 by Whiterockin |
Get playing attractive football and reasonable results and we will be the darlings of Sky again, with more live coverage and the profile that goes with it. Play offs and attractive football and he will definitely be poached. Unlike our last manger who we couldn't offload and had to part ways by mutual agreement. |
Lets hope they've put a £4m release clause in again then | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:54 - Aug 12 with 1034 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:23 - Aug 12 by Whiterockin |
Get playing attractive football and reasonable results and we will be the darlings of Sky again, with more live coverage and the profile that goes with it. Play offs and attractive football and he will definitely be poached. Unlike our last manger who we couldn't offload and had to part ways by mutual agreement. |
Didn't sound like we wanted to offload, I think that was the issue in a nutshell. Hence why we were offering him a new contract.
Unfortunately we had to part ways as he clearly told them he wanted no part of another season under the circumstances that were unfolding.
But yes, I am sure another play-off finish and we will have Premier League interest again... easier said than done however. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:54 - Aug 12 with 1031 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:29 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
Lets hope they've put a £4m release clause in again then |
Exactly. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:16 - Aug 12 with 1000 views | vetchonian |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:51 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
Im just stating what I personally would have been happy with at the time.
I'm not happy with 17th now. However, I wouldn't be calling for Martin's head, as long as we stay up, are playing good football and there are reasons for the position with clear signs of ongoing progression. |
But the question remains will our owners?
They need us back in the PL.....they are not going to settle for surviving in the Championship but playing attractive football....they need and want success....pretty football doesnt gaurantee that.
Now dont get me wrong I wouldnt want to sit and watch Pullis type football week in week out....and we didnt have that last season despite a lot of myth generation....
I am sure Cooper was charged with getting us promoted hence the football...but that is all history. We fans were spoilt as a result of the Martinez years and what followed until LAudrups departure...we want to see the pretty football the owners wnat something else...it will be interesting what happens to Martin if for all the nice football we fail to improve our league standing....Swasnea City is not of any use to the Amercians in the medium to long term in the Championship......in fact I would think by now the Americans are already getting twitchy as this is now our fourth season in the Championship and each time we are having to "weaken" the squad to cut our cloth....maybe this is why they are backing Martin to ensure we can challenge...they certainly will not be happy with us as a midtable championship side...so we are in for some fun times ahead....as we fans will have a different aim to that of our owners. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:28 - Aug 12 with 987 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:54 - Aug 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Didn't sound like we wanted to offload, I think that was the issue in a nutshell. Hence why we were offering him a new contract.
Unfortunately we had to part ways as he clearly told them he wanted no part of another season under the circumstances that were unfolding.
But yes, I am sure another play-off finish and we will have Premier League interest again... easier said than done however. |
Winter / Allen, need to start thinking about a succession plan using the prefered playing style promoted by Martin. It seems to me neither Tate O'Leary nor Anthony are ready to become a natural fit for manager. The club may already asking Martin to help create a succession plan for the 23-24 season.
A report in the WoL today reports that Routledge, Britton and OLeary have been at the training ground to learn from Martin's methods. This of course has to be done in a way that there is not a perceived threat to the managers position.
The club tried to do this after Laudrup with Monk. Garry had his own methods and they have served him well at least financially. I believe the US owners are aligned to this thinking. Disclaimer - No facts in this post just a personal opinion. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:35 - Aug 12 with 977 views | vetchonian |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:28 - Aug 12 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Winter / Allen, need to start thinking about a succession plan using the prefered playing style promoted by Martin. It seems to me neither Tate O'Leary nor Anthony are ready to become a natural fit for manager. The club may already asking Martin to help create a succession plan for the 23-24 season.
A report in the WoL today reports that Routledge, Britton and OLeary have been at the training ground to learn from Martin's methods. This of course has to be done in a way that there is not a perceived threat to the managers position.
The club tried to do this after Laudrup with Monk. Garry had his own methods and they have served him well at least financially. I believe the US owners are aligned to this thinking. Disclaimer - No facts in this post just a personal opinion. |
The club iniatied this when Martinez left with your favourite ex chairman stating that Curtis and Pascoe would be a "fixture" to ensure continuity of philosophy should managers move on....Pascoe was allowed to go with Rodgers but Curt remained to work with Laudrup and then that same chariman allowed some guy called Monk to oust Curtis form the coaching set up.....the rot staretd there and only one man to blame!!!! | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:46 - Aug 12 with 964 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:28 - Aug 12 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Winter / Allen, need to start thinking about a succession plan using the prefered playing style promoted by Martin. It seems to me neither Tate O'Leary nor Anthony are ready to become a natural fit for manager. The club may already asking Martin to help create a succession plan for the 23-24 season.
A report in the WoL today reports that Routledge, Britton and OLeary have been at the training ground to learn from Martin's methods. This of course has to be done in a way that there is not a perceived threat to the managers position.
The club tried to do this after Laudrup with Monk. Garry had his own methods and they have served him well at least financially. I believe the US owners are aligned to this thinking. Disclaimer - No facts in this post just a personal opinion. |
Don’t disagree.
But the bottom line remains, for any long term plans to come to fruition we will have to see short term results, otherwise it will just be binned. They won’t risk their investment devaluing by relegation to league 1 and yet further restriction of income.
If we are to get sufficient results then the correct players need to be brought into the club, no nonsense American off season loans. Good technical players that can pass, are composed and have a good peripheral awareness and off the ball play.
We have key positions that seem seriously lacking in the above. Bennett in defence, Smith in midfield and Cullen up front to name but a few. I can’t see any of those thriving in the tiki taka style. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:06 - Aug 12 with 937 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:16 - Aug 12 by vetchonian |
But the question remains will our owners?
They need us back in the PL.....they are not going to settle for surviving in the Championship but playing attractive football....they need and want success....pretty football doesnt gaurantee that.
Now dont get me wrong I wouldnt want to sit and watch Pullis type football week in week out....and we didnt have that last season despite a lot of myth generation....
I am sure Cooper was charged with getting us promoted hence the football...but that is all history. We fans were spoilt as a result of the Martinez years and what followed until LAudrups departure...we want to see the pretty football the owners wnat something else...it will be interesting what happens to Martin if for all the nice football we fail to improve our league standing....Swasnea City is not of any use to the Amercians in the medium to long term in the Championship......in fact I would think by now the Americans are already getting twitchy as this is now our fourth season in the Championship and each time we are having to "weaken" the squad to cut our cloth....maybe this is why they are backing Martin to ensure we can challenge...they certainly will not be happy with us as a midtable championship side...so we are in for some fun times ahead....as we fans will have a different aim to that of our owners. |
I don't think he will get sacked with a mid table finish. Not even a lower table finish tbh.
You have to give a new manager a bit of time, especially if they are trying to change the ethos of the club. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:08 - Aug 12 with 936 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:28 - Aug 12 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Winter / Allen, need to start thinking about a succession plan using the prefered playing style promoted by Martin. It seems to me neither Tate O'Leary nor Anthony are ready to become a natural fit for manager. The club may already asking Martin to help create a succession plan for the 23-24 season.
A report in the WoL today reports that Routledge, Britton and OLeary have been at the training ground to learn from Martin's methods. This of course has to be done in a way that there is not a perceived threat to the managers position.
The club tried to do this after Laudrup with Monk. Garry had his own methods and they have served him well at least financially. I believe the US owners are aligned to this thinking. Disclaimer - No facts in this post just a personal opinion. |
I don't think Routledge, Britton and Oleary have been down to "learn from Martin's methods" at all.
Probably just went down for a stroll to see whats going on. It's interesting and if you like football and love the club, its a good thing to see. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:10 - Aug 12 with 931 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:46 - Aug 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Don’t disagree.
But the bottom line remains, for any long term plans to come to fruition we will have to see short term results, otherwise it will just be binned. They won’t risk their investment devaluing by relegation to league 1 and yet further restriction of income.
If we are to get sufficient results then the correct players need to be brought into the club, no nonsense American off season loans. Good technical players that can pass, are composed and have a good peripheral awareness and off the ball play.
We have key positions that seem seriously lacking in the above. Bennett in defence, Smith in midfield and Cullen up front to name but a few. I can’t see any of those thriving in the tiki taka style. |
Bennett had the best passing stats of all players on the pitch against Blackburn.
Can't see Smith or Cullen starting this season, after looking at our squad right now. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:21 - Aug 12 with 920 views | jack247 |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:10 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
Bennett had the best passing stats of all players on the pitch against Blackburn.
Can't see Smith or Cullen starting this season, after looking at our squad right now. |
I haven’t seen enough from Smith to suggest he’d be much more than a squad player. He was last season and we have more depth and quality in midfield now.
Although I agree Cullen probably won’t start much, I can see him being one of the first options we turn to if we’re chasing a game. Don’t know a lot about Piroe or Joseph, but new arrivals aside, he’s easily the best finisher in the squad. | | | |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:28 - Aug 12 with 902 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:10 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
Bennett had the best passing stats of all players on the pitch against Blackburn.
Can't see Smith or Cullen starting this season, after looking at our squad right now. |
That’s because he can only play simple passes, but he’s also the most likely to play those simple passes to the opposition under pressure.
Cabango tries some adventurous passing, such as his through ball to Cullen. Latty is also weak when it comes to composed passing.
It’s no coincidence we have the ball away on the edge of our box a dozen times. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:30 - Aug 12 with 889 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:28 - Aug 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
That’s because he can only play simple passes, but he’s also the most likely to play those simple passes to the opposition under pressure.
Cabango tries some adventurous passing, such as his through ball to Cullen. Latty is also weak when it comes to composed passing.
It’s no coincidence we have the ball away on the edge of our box a dozen times. |
Sure Bennett had like 96% pass accuracy Saturday.
I agree Lati had a poor game from that perspective, but he's already been replaced at CB by the looks of it.
My point is, this ssquad doesn't need an overhaul in order to play Martin football. | |
| |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:40 - Aug 12 with 873 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:30 - Aug 12 by jackrmee |
Sure Bennett had like 96% pass accuracy Saturday.
I agree Lati had a poor game from that perspective, but he's already been replaced at CB by the looks of it.
My point is, this ssquad doesn't need an overhaul in order to play Martin football. |
Last season he had the lowest pass completion of our CB’s.
Naughton was 79.5%, Cabango was 86.2%, Bennett was 76.4%. 1 every 4 went astray, when not attempting adventurous passes, over the course of a whole game that’s not good.
Cabango gets a really bad rep for some reason, his passing is fine. Has an eye for an excellent pass.
Bennett is not comfortable in a tight spot with the ball at his feet. He either launches it or gives it very easy to someone else. He will get found out in a tiki taka style, no question. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
