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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 20:52 - Mar 12 by blackdogblue
I know but it’s a hard pill to swallow after years of hard work..
That's sport, bdb
We've had some great memories that can't be taken away, memories some of us thought would never happen
And we live to fight another day
It's getting to the stage where the online whingeing is worse than being average once again
I cling on to the knowledge that the Dale can provide more great memories in the future, whereas those who can do nothing but moan are unlikely to have much to cling onto
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 20:57 - Mar 12 by D_Alien
That's sport, bdb
We've had some great memories that can't be taken away, memories some of us thought would never happen
And we live to fight another day
It's getting to the stage where the online whingeing is worse than being average once again
I cling on to the knowledge that the Dale can provide more great memories in the future, whereas those who can do nothing but moan are unlikely to have much to cling onto
There’s nothing wrong with being average. There’s nothing wrong with being rubbish.
As long as you want to better and there are signs that others think the same.
Opportunities to score galore today. Every one missed. Chances created and too often nobody in a position to take advantage. Dorsett and O'Connell kept us safe at the back, Lynch had little to do.
As mentioned earlier, the solidarity between club and supporters is 100% and never been better. UTDNFS rules. The frustration with what is seen on the pitch against that solidarity is painful. It really is fingers crossed to stay up and hope to rebuild for the next campaign with a clear out of the lightweights in the squad. We really are the softest team in this league.
The understanding post-match interviews are lovely, but the problems seen are rarely fixed. RS moaning about the pitch today was a red flag - are we into lame excuses now?
Should we stay up, review the manager again come Christmas as we will truly know his ability by then. Should we get relegated, Stockdale must go the day we drop.
#UTDNFS
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 22:39 - Mar 12 with 3425 views
Oh if only we’d scored after a minute, which we could have done. To my mind it’s a glaring miss. Having said that, I think he had to think twice before realising that he was clear on goal. As someone remarked earlier this was typical League Two fare. It’s difficult to stomach though when, two years ago in the last game before the first lockdown, we beat Rotherham 3-1. No Lund, Camps, Rathbone, Henderson etc anymore unfortunately. I wish we’d spend less time though on fancy free kicks which come to nothing and rather spend more time practising on how not to concede free headers from corners. How did their man miss that just before the break? I still trust RS but the doubts are slightly beginning to form. Perhaps he’s becoming more pragmatic and less idealistic Before Christmas we were creating more chances than most team apparently and conceding stupid goals. We seem to be a lot better at the latter now at the expense of the former. I thought O’Keeffe was a lot better in the second half and was also a bit bemused by the substitutions. To my mind Matty Done was excellent today and we lost a potent threat down the left when he came off. Ball isn’t suited to being played further upfield and if we want a big presence upfront then the sooner that Andrews is fit again and available then we may see a difference. As for Charman? Is he fit? If not, don’t have him on the bench? If he is then don’t leave him kicking his heels and using Danny Cashman instead. I like him but he was never going to have an impact on a game like the one today. Finally, we’ve talked about toxic support this season. From where I was in the Sandy today exactly the opposite was the case. At one stage in the first half I looked around and people were on their phones, the only noise was a murmur of conversation. I’ve heard more racket at Dane Street or Ladyhouse.
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 22:54 - Mar 12 with 3369 views
For two home matches in succession, Matt Done has appeared our most incisive forward, still with pace that is lacking elsewhere, and twice he has been hooked after an hour or so. You could sense the Barrow defence being relieved that he was no longer on to make them back pedal. His replacement made no such runs and put in fewer interceptions as well.
I remain bewildered by that kind of judgement call.
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 23:25 - Mar 12 with 3282 views
Call me a prophet of doom if you like but…. We’re probably going to stay up this year due to the inadequacies of other teams, perhaps Oldham and Scunthorpe. The two teams that replace them next season, maybe Stockport and Wrexham, maybe Chesterfield or even Notts County, will have massively larger budgets. You’d think that they would be up at the top end of the table rather than looking to go straight back down. Our playing budget may be reduced even more. And for the first time In a few yearsI don’t believe that we will have a contracted player in July who will be a saleable asset.
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 23:43 - Mar 12 with 3244 views
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 22:54 - Mar 12 by finberty
For two home matches in succession, Matt Done has appeared our most incisive forward, still with pace that is lacking elsewhere, and twice he has been hooked after an hour or so. You could sense the Barrow defence being relieved that he was no longer on to make them back pedal. His replacement made no such runs and put in fewer interceptions as well.
I remain bewildered by that kind of judgement call.
I agree with you to a certain extent. I was disappointed to see Matty being substituted as well, and that Newby made fewer runs, but that is not really Newby's game. Newby isn't my favourite player but I did think he did ok when he came on. I wasn't as disappointed as most on this thread with today's performance where we did at least create some chances and certainly had more shots, albeit from outside the penalty area when it really is pot luck if the ball gets through the mass of bodies. But much better than the last two away games from all accounts. Looking at the table I'd say it was a good point today.
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 23:25 - Mar 12 by EllDale
Call me a prophet of doom if you like but…. We’re probably going to stay up this year due to the inadequacies of other teams, perhaps Oldham and Scunthorpe. The two teams that replace them next season, maybe Stockport and Wrexham, maybe Chesterfield or even Notts County, will have massively larger budgets. You’d think that they would be up at the top end of the table rather than looking to go straight back down. Our playing budget may be reduced even more. And for the first time In a few yearsI don’t believe that we will have a contracted player in July who will be a saleable asset.
Its hard to argue with that really. I am not going to have a pop at those who are frustrated and angry with our performances. We just want to be entertained and know that we have had a go. I did see a fair bit of endeavour yesterday and people like Dorsett show passion. But it looks like we are low on skill and low on confidence. The set pieces they had rehearsed in training failed miserably too.
What worries me a little is the Academy. For years and years now we have been bringing Academy players through. We have used them in the EFL Trophy games and as inspired subs for the main games. They will only ever learn if they get a chance at mens football. Where are they? Rarely even on the bench. Where is the next Morley or Cannon coming from? I get that we need experience in a fight for relegation.....but sometimes a little bit of creativity and naivity can add to a game.
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 09:33 - Mar 13 with 2793 views
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 23:25 - Mar 12 by EllDale
Call me a prophet of doom if you like but…. We’re probably going to stay up this year due to the inadequacies of other teams, perhaps Oldham and Scunthorpe. The two teams that replace them next season, maybe Stockport and Wrexham, maybe Chesterfield or even Notts County, will have massively larger budgets. You’d think that they would be up at the top end of the table rather than looking to go straight back down. Our playing budget may be reduced even more. And for the first time In a few yearsI don’t believe that we will have a contracted player in July who will be a saleable asset.
Isn’t that the case in every league, every season?
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 09:46 - Mar 13 with 2728 views
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 23:25 - Mar 12 by EllDale
Call me a prophet of doom if you like but…. We’re probably going to stay up this year due to the inadequacies of other teams, perhaps Oldham and Scunthorpe. The two teams that replace them next season, maybe Stockport and Wrexham, maybe Chesterfield or even Notts County, will have massively larger budgets. You’d think that they would be up at the top end of the table rather than looking to go straight back down. Our playing budget may be reduced even more. And for the first time In a few yearsI don’t believe that we will have a contracted player in July who will be a saleable asset.
I'd agree with the quality of the league it's probably the worst I can remember it in recent years. It's become very flat there's not much difference in quality between top and bottom and it's more to do with consistency and putting runs together.
That being said I keep faith in the fact RS will have a full transfer window this time without any hindrances to signing players. We'll also most likely have the opportunity to completely reinvent the squad especially in the defensive positions.
The quicker we can get to 50 points this season the sooner we can start to give opportunities to players like Brierley (and I hope there's a few more in the youth team) that possibly by January could be saleable. We'll see.
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 09:46 - Mar 13 by boromat
I'd agree with the quality of the league it's probably the worst I can remember it in recent years. It's become very flat there's not much difference in quality between top and bottom and it's more to do with consistency and putting runs together.
That being said I keep faith in the fact RS will have a full transfer window this time without any hindrances to signing players. We'll also most likely have the opportunity to completely reinvent the squad especially in the defensive positions.
The quicker we can get to 50 points this season the sooner we can start to give opportunities to players like Brierley (and I hope there's a few more in the youth team) that possibly by January could be saleable. We'll see.
What concerns me is that in the January transfer window, even with an influx of signings we are now weaker than we were before purely due to the losses of Morley and Beesley.
RS will have agreed to let those two players go thinking the incoming players would make us stronger, which clearly isn’t the case.
There’s only Ball really who is an improvement on what we had.
Campbell works hard but doesn’t affect the game as much as Beesley.
Jury very much out for the foreseeable on Charman.
Keeping Broadbent until the end of the season was a mistake. He got MOM yesterday but I’m not sure how.
We shouldn’t have signed COK. RS was aware of his deficiencies and should have signed a more steady full back to allow us to play four at the back, if he is so against it with COK in the side.
I’m just not seeing in Stockdale what others clearly are.
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 11:19 - Mar 13 with 2492 views
RS has mentioned in recent post match interviews about the pitch being a problem. Granted there is not a lot of grass on at this time of year but from the terraces the ball seems to run true with little sign of erratic bounce. Our opponents seem to have little trouble finding their team mates with a pass
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 11:22 - Mar 13 with 2475 views
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 11:19 - Mar 13 by jpresto
RS has mentioned in recent post match interviews about the pitch being a problem. Granted there is not a lot of grass on at this time of year but from the terraces the ball seems to run true with little sign of erratic bounce. Our opponents seem to have little trouble finding their team mates with a pass
To be fair, Barrow put quite a few passes out of play or into no-man's land.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 12:01 - Mar 13 with 2355 views
The next big worry as mentioned twice by RS before the game is the question of suspensions. I dont know for sure who this affects but one certainly will be EOC, possibly COK. Also Odoh and Kelly ill.
Anyone know the stuation?
Without EOC in the back line, I shudder to think what will happen.
Yesterday I gave 7/10 to defence: 4/10 to midfield: and unmarkable to attack.
50 points is looking very distant to me. Sorry.
Barrow very poor- thank goodness.
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 12:13 - Mar 13 with 2270 views
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 12:01 - Mar 13 by samueloneils
The next big worry as mentioned twice by RS before the game is the question of suspensions. I dont know for sure who this affects but one certainly will be EOC, possibly COK. Also Odoh and Kelly ill.
Anyone know the stuation?
Without EOC in the back line, I shudder to think what will happen.
Yesterday I gave 7/10 to defence: 4/10 to midfield: and unmarkable to attack.
50 points is looking very distant to me. Sorry.
Barrow very poor- thank goodness.
O'Connell is on 9 yellow cards in the league (plus one v Burnley, which doesn't count towards league suspensions).
If he is booked in any of our next three matches, he will receive a two match suspension.
O'Keeffe is safe. He has six yellow cards in the league, so can't reach 10 in the remaining cut-off matches.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 12:21 - Mar 13 with 2247 views
What concerns me is that in the January transfer window, even with an influx of signings we are now weaker than we were before purely due to the losses of Morley and Beesley.
RS will have agreed to let those two players go thinking the incoming players would make us stronger, which clearly isn’t the case.
There’s only Ball really who is an improvement on what we had.
Campbell works hard but doesn’t affect the game as much as Beesley.
Jury very much out for the foreseeable on Charman.
Keeping Broadbent until the end of the season was a mistake. He got MOM yesterday but I’m not sure how.
We shouldn’t have signed COK. RS was aware of his deficiencies and should have signed a more steady full back to allow us to play four at the back, if he is so against it with COK in the side.
I’m just not seeing in Stockdale what others clearly are.
“I’m just not seeing in Stockdale what others clearly are.”
We know. You tell us every week.
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 12:56 - Mar 13 with 2149 views
What concerns me is that in the January transfer window, even with an influx of signings we are now weaker than we were before purely due to the losses of Morley and Beesley.
RS will have agreed to let those two players go thinking the incoming players would make us stronger, which clearly isn’t the case.
There’s only Ball really who is an improvement on what we had.
Campbell works hard but doesn’t affect the game as much as Beesley.
Jury very much out for the foreseeable on Charman.
Keeping Broadbent until the end of the season was a mistake. He got MOM yesterday but I’m not sure how.
We shouldn’t have signed COK. RS was aware of his deficiencies and should have signed a more steady full back to allow us to play four at the back, if he is so against it with COK in the side.
I’m just not seeing in Stockdale what others clearly are.
Imagine if we hadn't signed Corey and performances etc were the same. Those calling for RS to go would use being unable to sign O'Keefe as another stick to beat Stockdale with.
Apologies for using an 'if' statement.
[Post edited 13 Mar 2022 12:57]
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
This season was all about survival - White, Graham were panic signings and all we could get. Stay up and build. Next season is the one to make judgements on.
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 12:56 - Mar 13 by James1980
Imagine if we hadn't signed Corey and performances etc were the same. Those calling for RS to go would use being unable to sign O'Keefe as another stick to beat Stockdale with.
Apologies for using an 'if' statement.
[Post edited 13 Mar 2022 12:57]
Would argue the RB/RWB position is better now as Keohane is back and playing well there enabling us to play a back four. Thought we did ok out wide yesterday actually and that’s why the subs didn’t work out well as the threat reduced down the flanks after they were made.
Not going to have too much of a go at Stockdale because of the awful situation we were in last Summer, and because of his honesty in interviews which is very refreshing...although he identifies problems and doesn't seem to correct them in the following matches.
Despite what came out of the club about the best transfer window ever in January we are much weaker as a team than we were before. Mainly due to Morley's loss and also the loss of our only real goal threat in Beesley.
Campbell is not a target man...it's obvious. So don't play him 30 yards away from the other players (can't call them strikers, because they are either wide midfield players or someone joining from centre midfield) Yesterday; he did his best, but was continuously faced with two big centre halves marking him. Doesn't give the lad much chance.
Charman must be a big disappointment to the Manager. Either he is struggling to get up to fitness levels of L2 (big worry) or he isn't as good as we hoped for. Either way, its not a good start to his Dale career.
COK isn't half the player he was in the first couple of months . Why? not sure, but I suspect that all those clamouring for him to be signed influenced the Board to pursue his signature, and he is likely on good wages here.
The insistence with 5 at the back (call it 3 plus 2 wingbacks if you want) especially at home against lowly opposition is tedious, and will result in reduced crowds and thus; reduced income at a time when we need to be trying to reach out to the townsfolk of Rochdale to support us. We HAVE to be entertaining at home. It's a given, and is what we were promised.
And I agree with many that our midfield is powderpuff at times, apart from Ball, who is a decent; but slow, box to box player. A poor mans Lund if you will. Big clearout needed in Summer.
2 new goalkeepers, an almost complete new defence, a new midfield with the exception of Kelly, who I'd keep, and a couple of goal scoring forwards who are not shot shy. So; almost a new team then !!
Yesterday was, in the main, poor stuff. No lack of effort, but a lack of ability from many, and a lack of tactical awareness from the bench. Make no mistake, Barrow were also poor, and it's up to the Management to work out a way to beat opponents . Had Campbell scored in the first minute, it might have been different, but his miss (or was it a good save? probably both) set the tone of the game, and we gradually petered out as a goal threat until the second half, when we squandered several good openings.
I turn up and hope that I will be entertained, but recent home games with one or two exceptions have been as dull as anything under Barrow (the manager) which is a damning criticism.
And I concur that the pitch is awful. If I were on the Board; I'd be having serious words with the contractors.. and updating the fans as to why it is so poor after the huge investment the last CEO made in the pitch. Perhaps he botched it; as he did so many other things by all accounts?
And my MOM yesterday ? Another vote for Dorsett. Can't believe the harsh criticism of the lad. Yes he was shaky in the first half, but he was head and shoulders the best player on view after half time.
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Barrow (H) Match Thread on 14:40 - Mar 13 with 1877 views
What concerns me is that in the January transfer window, even with an influx of signings we are now weaker than we were before purely due to the losses of Morley and Beesley.
RS will have agreed to let those two players go thinking the incoming players would make us stronger, which clearly isn’t the case.
There’s only Ball really who is an improvement on what we had.
Campbell works hard but doesn’t affect the game as much as Beesley.
Jury very much out for the foreseeable on Charman.
Keeping Broadbent until the end of the season was a mistake. He got MOM yesterday but I’m not sure how.
We shouldn’t have signed COK. RS was aware of his deficiencies and should have signed a more steady full back to allow us to play four at the back, if he is so against it with COK in the side.
I’m just not seeing in Stockdale what others clearly are.
I wouldn't read too much into a January transfer window they are typically very difficult times to make any good permanent signings and I'm sure we've had to pay over the odds in some respects in order to get some quality in.
Our team very much had 2 of its most influential players taken from it in January. Morley pulled the strings Beasley had such an engine that he could occupy 2/3 defenders for 90 mins. You can't replace that easily. We've brought in good players but nothing like one for one replacements and to get it right we need the close season. Obviously in the short term it's Robbie's job to now get the best out of the players we've got and he's finding it a difficult balancing act. He definitely hasn't found the right line up or system yet.
For me the forwards need to find some clinical finishing from somewhere. We generally create enough chances regardless of who's in the line up. On Saturday I'd say it was quite a defensive line up and it brought about a clean sheet.
Comments on Charman I think have been a bit unfair. I don't see him being a first team regular until next season. If you think back the same was the case for Craig Dawson! Not that I'd put that pressure on Luke but patience is needed and I think fans put more emphasis on strikers as the same wasn't said of Craig at the time.
Barrow (H) Match Thread on 13:30 - Mar 13 by 442Dale
Would argue the RB/RWB position is better now as Keohane is back and playing well there enabling us to play a back four. Thought we did ok out wide yesterday actually and that’s why the subs didn’t work out well as the threat reduced down the flanks after they were made.
I concur.
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Long stream of consciousness that's been swimming around my head a while, apologies for wasting a couple of minutes of your life if you make it to the end.
Might well be wide of the mark but to me it feels our current lack of progress is less about player competence and more Stockdale still figuring out his right leadership style. The players seem frozen at the moment and don't know whether to stick or twist, and RS' interviews are increasingly hinting at a loss of confidence and second guessing himself, perhaps leading to over managing. Would be completely understandable given he's new at this level, but I do wonder if that's filtering through to the players and hindering them from performing to their potential.
I still believe this is a squad full of talent, but at this level it's as much about what happens between the ears as the feet. Clark, Ball and Charman all made eye catching debuts. First game, no previous context or expectations, just playing. Grant's 10 min cameo at the end of the Northampton win when the game felt secure was a Grant we've rarely seen this season, all freedom and flow, shades of Paddy. Done and Keohane's first games back were similar, happy footballers back on the pitch doing what they love. But on to the next games, fill their heads with complexity and they quickly retreat to become shadows of themselves. Jonny Wilkinson's a great listen about this here :
I like RS and am naturally drawn to his honesty, how much he cares about our position in the table, desperate for us to win and improve etc. But I wonder if those direct messages land better with fans, especially of a similar generation or older, more so than modern Gen Z footballers in their 20s. It's increasingly apparent he's a student of Allardyce and comments like kittens to a dog fight just apply more pressure to already fragile confidence. I'd have loved to have seen the squad heading out to the Canaries last week on a team bonding trip or something similar, for example. Start backing ourselves again.
BBM by contrast felt the complete opposite. Almost as though he was under managing at times, little interest in results and table positions, all about 'player development'. Drove us all mad, but yet probably an endearingly empathetic leadership style within the dressing room and the players seemed to love him.
The best managers like Pep and Klopp seem to strike that perfect balance - on one hand all intense relentlessness and winners mentality with highly sophisticated tactical brains, but equally able to send out happy and confident players on match day with liberated clear minds, free to perform to the best of their potential. I guess that's why they're at the top of the game.
I like the fact we give young managers a chance and if this doesn't work out I don't think that necessarily means the experiment is proved to have failed and needs an over-steer in the opposite direction - merge the best attributes from our current and previous manager and I reckon you've someone who can lead us back to League 1. But take the worst and we're heading to the National League.
I'm desperate for him to succeed and am still Stockdale in, but I think it's all about how much he can learn and develop during the close season and hit the ground running come August. That's going to take a willingness to be reflective and vulnerable with himself, and open up to some direct feedback from those around him. I've no idea what Sammy Lee's like as a mentor, but for me that's a key support role for any young manager finding their way as a #1.
Either way, I hope the board already have a clear succession planning strategy in place just in case. The Southampton CEO Martin Semmens was superb on 5 Live's Monday Night Club the other week in speaking about the transparency they have with Hassenhuttl on this, and generally came across as a benchmark in modern off pitch leadership. But fingers crossed we won't need that and Robbie's our guy to get us safely through to May and then lead us to happier times next season. I still think that can be the case, but right now like Chaff said on the pod I can't wait for the season to end.
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