| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 16:48 - Aug 21 with 1040 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 15:44 - Aug 21 by BillyChong |
Bennett automatic extension clause based on appearances. Top down decision to save money. Pretty sure you are way off the mark there claiming Martin chose to completely drop Bennett at that stage not to be seen since. |
He told Bennett he was not in his plans. It is quoted in the press.
Nothing to do with US people. It is Martin's decision and Levien and Silverstein's problem. Winter is employed to manage the situation. One option is for Winter to demand Martin uses him. Winter sold Peterson without referring to Cooper.
He and Fulton were good enough for top 6 Cooper but nowhere near good enough for struggling Martin whos team play well "except in both boxes". My reference is Brendan using Wes Morgan. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 17:30 - Aug 21 with 992 views | onehunglow |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 16:48 - Aug 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
He told Bennett he was not in his plans. It is quoted in the press.
Nothing to do with US people. It is Martin's decision and Levien and Silverstein's problem. Winter is employed to manage the situation. One option is for Winter to demand Martin uses him. Winter sold Peterson without referring to Cooper.
He and Fulton were good enough for top 6 Cooper but nowhere near good enough for struggling Martin whos team play well "except in both boxes". My reference is Brendan using Wes Morgan. |
He told Fulton in September . Weeks after his coming
Weeks. |  |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 17:33 - Aug 21 with 994 views | TheAlpineShrew |
Not sure if it has been mentioned already, however I would be shocked if RM didn't know exactly how much cash we had to spend on transfers and wages. Now if he decided to spend that cash on 2 centre halves and a loan deal for Soriano knowing we needed a right wing/back, sorry but no sympathy from me.
The owners should be asking serious questions about the players that have been frozen out, and what is he doing to improve them. | | | |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 17:40 - Aug 21 with 984 views | TheAlpineShrew |
Not sure if it has been mentioned already, however I would be shocked if RM didn't know exactly how much cash we had to spend on transfers and wages. Now if he decided to spend that cash on 2 centre halves and a loan deal for Soriano knowing we needed a right wing/back, sorry but no sympathy from me.
The owners should be asking serious questions about the players that have been frozen out, and what is he doing to improve them. | | | |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 18:08 - Aug 21 with 956 views | guthrieintherain |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 12:15 - Aug 21 by cadleigh |
Well, the die-hard defenders of Martin have dusted themselves down, climbed out of their dug-outs and are mounting a counter-attack. It’s the thinness of the squad, failure to back Martin in the transfer market, chickens coming home to roost following years of under-investment. Never mind how any of this is going to be paid for, never mind that Martin has had more failures than successes in the transfer market, never mind that he’s squandered all but one of the up-and-coming generation of young Swans who had such talent and potential, and would have provided the future transfer income to keep us competitive. As long as we are looking at the shareholders, we won’t be looking at the manager and that’s all that matters for now.
I repeat, if you had a cowboy builder who was obviously making a mess of your home, would you give him even more money or cut your losses and show him the door? |
Cowboy builders don't spend 1.5 million on your house for you then to sell it for 9 million plus add ons.
Let's have a bit of perspective here.
He is not blameless but neither are the owners or players.
Collective responsibility.
I would put it at
50% Russ
25% players
25 % owners.
But seriously you can argue till the cows come home on this one.
But all we can do as fans is get behind the club. | |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 18:32 - Aug 21 with 933 views | cadleigh |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 18:08 - Aug 21 by guthrieintherain |
Cowboy builders don't spend 1.5 million on your house for you then to sell it for 9 million plus add ons.
Let's have a bit of perspective here.
He is not blameless but neither are the owners or players.
Collective responsibility.
I would put it at
50% Russ
25% players
25 % owners.
But seriously you can argue till the cows come home on this one.
But all we can do as fans is get behind the club. |
I agree with you on that breakdown of responsibility. My point was that a minority are arguing that it is ONLY lack of financial support allowing Martin to get the players he needs that is preventing ‘the process’ from working. Ignoring the fact that this time last year (and for a substantial part of the season that followed), Bennett and Smith couldn’t get dropped no matter how hard they didn’t try, while players who were not on nickname terms with ‘Russ’ were being casually thrown under buses. Now Smith is gone and Bennett is on permanent gardening leave. And Fulton, who was told he had no future with us and should find another club, is a regular. It’s baffling until you remember that this is a manager with little experience, no record of success and a history of unusual views on everything from vaccines to cod psychology. | |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 19:16 - Aug 21 with 890 views | union_jack |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 18:08 - Aug 21 by guthrieintherain |
Cowboy builders don't spend 1.5 million on your house for you then to sell it for 9 million plus add ons.
Let's have a bit of perspective here.
He is not blameless but neither are the owners or players.
Collective responsibility.
I would put it at
50% Russ
25% players
25 % owners.
But seriously you can argue till the cows come home on this one.
But all we can do as fans is get behind the club. |
No they’re not blameless but the important issue here is responsibility. Martin is 100% responsible for their performance. If they don’t perform, Martin isn’t managing them properly. It’s a tough gig at any club hence the longevity of a football manager’s tenure not being very long in the vast majority of cases. |  |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 19:27 - Aug 21 with 882 views | dobjack2 |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 14:59 - Aug 21 by Sirjohnalot |
I live near Manchester and spending money travelling around the NW / midlands, out for most of the day when I could spend it with my wife and dog, I want to be entertained. That may be different from winning every game, but I don’t want to be bored |
The owners count on the fanbase being habitual, and even though the last game was awful that they'll come again in the hope that the next game is better.
Entertainment would be nice as well for the fan, but as long as a lack of entertainment doesn't result in a serious revenue drop it's an extra for owners who are looking to run the club at break even. | | | |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 21:00 - Aug 21 with 842 views | AndyCole |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 10:18 - Aug 21 by union_jack |
My opinion is you make it as intolerable for him as you can so that the owners are forced to act. A step backwards to go many steps forward. |
.
And that's the thing.
Fans that 'get' how we should be playing to the very best of our abilities with this talented squad are beyond frustrated with Martin's unintelligent nonsense and demeaning PR spin.
It would be remiss of decent, cleverer fans to not do precisely what you suggest.
The slower of thinking will then quickly catch on and the wave will be in motion - it's how these things roll.
The tide in Swansea Bay is currently on the wane, and a big storm is brewing with a massive rogue wave about to crash on west pier.
With clever foresight Swansea has recently rebuilt and underpinned Swansea west pier for such calamitous rogue waves. In the owners we trust to ride the rogue wave, steady the ship and sail the proper Swansea Way again........ | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 21:56 - Aug 21 with 786 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 15:02 - Aug 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Selling players has nothing to do with the owners. They will of course be consulted. Martin decides who is sold. He might even ring up agent or his old mates to facilitate a deal along with Marsh.
Martin decides who is sold and tells Winter what he wants. The manger will perhaps give Winter a valuation of the player or it will be agreed. Levien knows little about Morgan Whittaker. Martin decided Bennet was up for sale not Silverstein. I suspect they were depressed at Bennet not meeting Martin's standards.
Martin s told WInter he will not pick Bennett again. Bennett's position is unknown but he is still at the club. Reading will probably get him once Winter accepts their low ball offer on their wage contribution. Winter has to sell him or tell Martin he has to include him.
The owners have set out the conditions. Martin and Winter have to shift players if they want new ones. Silverstein who is not an owner can help out. There are too many players to shift. The US owners were told to give these guys long contracts.
It seems to me Bennett should be offered to Wayne Rooney. |
“Martin decides who is sold”.
He doesn’t. |  |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 23:17 - Aug 21 with 722 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 21:56 - Aug 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
“Martin decides who is sold”.
He doesn’t. |
Admittedly it is understood by the manger budgets have to be kept and selling Downes was a no brainer. The owners would have been keen to shift him once an offer came in.
The owners did not say to Martin "Bennett has got to go" on the other hand. Martin has explained this was a footballing decision not a financial one. Keeping Bennet was cheaper than buying Darling n the short term.
I believe Martin is closely involved in pushing Whittaker Joseph and Garrick out of the door with no US involvement. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 23:26 - Aug 21 with 717 views | Kerouac |
SOME THOUGHTS CONCERNING THE ARTICLE...
"And we’ve counted in Harry Darling as well in to that profit."
What does that statement mean?
"The situation between Bennett and Swansea was approved by Steve Cooper when Bennett left Wolves and joined Swansea in October 2020. The same manager who then pushed for an improved contract for Jay Fulton adding a further forty two thousand pounds a month to the Swansea wage bill. Between them both players are earning nearly one and a half million pounds in wages for a years contract, and both players to be honest are not wanted by Russell Martin. The swans current manager neither endorsed nor did he ask for these players to hamstring Swansea City with such vast wages."
- I can't believe I am reading this, it is so stupid.
Does any manager in the country get to choose who is in his squad when he takes a new job? Does any manager get to say "I don't like this player - I don't like the wages he is on, I am throwing him in the bin" ?
Good managers can renegotiate pre-existing contracts if they are capable, obviously the player is not going to want to be out of pocket...you have to offer people some quid pro quo.
If this is not possible you need to do all you can to sell him or loan him (cover most of his wages on loan if you have to)...if none of this is possible you have to make use of the player, motivate him, get the most from him.
If Martin was using Bennett we wouldn't have needed to sign Wood - we could have signed a RWB then.
"And currently Cooper is doing the same at Nottingham Forest.
...what a statement. How on earth would you know Nottingham Forest's business?
They have a very large income right now and are traditionally a Premier League Club. They have backed Cooper in order to try and stay in the Premier League, knowing that
a) they have Parachute payments if they go down
&
b) Cooper is an expert on spotting young talent worth investing in; Guehi, Gallagher, Brewster, Ben Wilmot, Sam Surridge, Freddie Woodman.
He wanted Morgan Gibbs-White for Swansea, no surprise he has signed him now. Cooper wanted Piroe...I would bet that he will come sniffing for Piroe before this window closes.
Let's just stick to writing about Swansea shall we.
"We know these players, and there are others can’t find anywhere near the ridiculous money they are on at Swansea, so for the owners to stop Martin advancing the club because of Steve Cooper and their own decisions two years ago seems more than flawed. "
...Martin is not advancing the club. He has been backed by the owners and he has failed;
Tale of the tape...
GK - Hamer out, Benda loaned out Fisher in - cost us £400k and £10.5k/week
RB - Roberts sold for £2.5m
Laird in on loan (Man Utd youngster) and Christie signed on a free (experienced Championship full-back)...you didn't want Christie remember, thought we could do better...Sorinola signed.
LB - Bidwell out on a free,
Wolf in on loan (he is not a LWB but that is where he sodding played him), Ogbeta signed (£250/300k), Sorinola signed.
CB - Bennett frozen out, Cooper tried then ditched, Williams (Liverpool youngster who had played Champions League) brought in and then ditched - not good enough apparently(!), Burns (Man City youngster) loaned then ditched after 2/3 games - he actually looked decent.
Darling (£2m) & Wood (£300k) brought in
CM - Smith let go on a free, George Byers got rid of,
Downes (£1.5m) brought in, Ntcham brought in on big money, Wolff loaned (then played at LWB), Allen brought in,.
AM - Dhanda got rid of
Patterson in (Ntcham and Wolff could play there also).
WINGERS - Routledge retired, Lowe sold for £1.5m, Barrie Mckay out on a free, Whittaker shipped out on loan, Garrick shipped out on loan
STRIKER - Ayew's wages off the books, Joseph brought in (£500k) and then shipped out
Joel Piroe (£1m) and Michael Obafemi (£1.8m) brought in,
"We came when not many others wanted to take on the challenge. We are spending less than we have for a very long time - people at the club might get upset with me saying that, but I am the only guy that ever talks to you and I will talk to you honestly. We are in a tricky moment."
1) he thinks WE are lucky to have HIM. Ha! We gave him an undeserved promotion.
2) We are spending less because we are no longer in the Premier League or have parachute payments. We are still spending more than 16 other Championship clubs.
3) You believe he is being honest? I believe he is desperate and under pressure. HE is in a tricky moment. Not "We".
"(Martin)...has turned around the careers of both Michael Obafemi and Joel Piroe, the latter at present looking like he wouldn’t get a game for 36-0 Bon Accord let alone the swans."
...what a joke. Obafemi was a promising youngster much sought after by Championship clubs. That is why he cost us £1.8m. Martin benched him
Piroe was a goalscorer wanted by Cooper. He was given to Martin instead (£1m) and was also benched.
In reality, these two saved Martin's Championship career.
Piroe is the best striker Martin will ever be fortunate enough to work with...and Martin has blown it.
"Everyone has a choice, to go with it or they can boo at me as much as they want, but it doesn't help the players. That is the situation."
"Russell Martin isn’t going anywhere.
The majority owners won’t invest another penny.
And the swans are nineteenth in the championship with no chance of salvation other than what they have. So shout as loud as you want, but how about trying to shout a little bit more positively this week, because nothing will change but the wind no matter how loud you become.
And nobody cares who can make a difference anyway."
...Excuse me!
Translation;
- Everything we claimed about Martin and his methods is clearly bull
- Martin has wasted our money and won't be given anymore unless he can shift some of the many players he has fallen out with.
- Shut up and take it, if you boo you're not a proper fan.
Do you know what is actually "not proper" though? This fraud of a manager.
P.S.
AND ANOTHER THING...
The Bennett situation
...Bennett was given a contract when he signed, we wanted him to sign.
He earned it under Cooper, he was a rock solid centre-back. He played like a captain.
We got to the Play-off final with him at the heart of the defence, a defence that leaked far less goals than we have conceded under Martin.
Martin comes in and plays him in his ludicrous 'system'. Bennett becomes a useful scapegoat for some of the fans, maybe he became a useful scapegoat for Martin as well...because it was Martin that binned him. Dropping Bennett from match day squads was celebrated by some of our more ignorant fans at the time.
We were told that this was because Martin did not want to trigger his contract extension...
Martin created the Bennett situation, seemingly without an exit plan.
Whatever is going on with Bennett is Martin's problem, he is the manager, he is employed to solve it... [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 23:27]
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 00:46 - Aug 22 with 682 views | KeithHaynes |
| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 23:26 - Aug 21 by Kerouac |
SOME THOUGHTS CONCERNING THE ARTICLE...
"And we’ve counted in Harry Darling as well in to that profit."
What does that statement mean?
"The situation between Bennett and Swansea was approved by Steve Cooper when Bennett left Wolves and joined Swansea in October 2020. The same manager who then pushed for an improved contract for Jay Fulton adding a further forty two thousand pounds a month to the Swansea wage bill. Between them both players are earning nearly one and a half million pounds in wages for a years contract, and both players to be honest are not wanted by Russell Martin. The swans current manager neither endorsed nor did he ask for these players to hamstring Swansea City with such vast wages."
- I can't believe I am reading this, it is so stupid.
Does any manager in the country get to choose who is in his squad when he takes a new job? Does any manager get to say "I don't like this player - I don't like the wages he is on, I am throwing him in the bin" ?
Good managers can renegotiate pre-existing contracts if they are capable, obviously the player is not going to want to be out of pocket...you have to offer people some quid pro quo.
If this is not possible you need to do all you can to sell him or loan him (cover most of his wages on loan if you have to)...if none of this is possible you have to make use of the player, motivate him, get the most from him.
If Martin was using Bennett we wouldn't have needed to sign Wood - we could have signed a RWB then.
"And currently Cooper is doing the same at Nottingham Forest.
...what a statement. How on earth would you know Nottingham Forest's business?
They have a very large income right now and are traditionally a Premier League Club. They have backed Cooper in order to try and stay in the Premier League, knowing that
a) they have Parachute payments if they go down
&
b) Cooper is an expert on spotting young talent worth investing in; Guehi, Gallagher, Brewster, Ben Wilmot, Sam Surridge, Freddie Woodman.
He wanted Morgan Gibbs-White for Swansea, no surprise he has signed him now. Cooper wanted Piroe...I would bet that he will come sniffing for Piroe before this window closes.
Let's just stick to writing about Swansea shall we.
"We know these players, and there are others can’t find anywhere near the ridiculous money they are on at Swansea, so for the owners to stop Martin advancing the club because of Steve Cooper and their own decisions two years ago seems more than flawed. "
...Martin is not advancing the club. He has been backed by the owners and he has failed;
Tale of the tape...
GK - Hamer out, Benda loaned out Fisher in - cost us £400k and £10.5k/week
RB - Roberts sold for £2.5m
Laird in on loan (Man Utd youngster) and Christie signed on a free (experienced Championship full-back)...you didn't want Christie remember, thought we could do better...Sorinola signed.
LB - Bidwell out on a free,
Wolf in on loan (he is not a LWB but that is where he sodding played him), Ogbeta signed (£250/300k), Sorinola signed.
CB - Bennett frozen out, Cooper tried then ditched, Williams (Liverpool youngster who had played Champions League) brought in and then ditched - not good enough apparently(!), Burns (Man City youngster) loaned then ditched after 2/3 games - he actually looked decent.
Darling (£2m) & Wood (£300k) brought in
CM - Smith let go on a free, George Byers got rid of,
Downes (£1.5m) brought in, Ntcham brought in on big money, Wolff loaned (then played at LWB), Allen brought in,.
AM - Dhanda got rid of
Patterson in (Ntcham and Wolff could play there also).
WINGERS - Routledge retired, Lowe sold for £1.5m, Barrie Mckay out on a free, Whittaker shipped out on loan, Garrick shipped out on loan
STRIKER - Ayew's wages off the books, Joseph brought in (£500k) and then shipped out
Joel Piroe (£1m) and Michael Obafemi (£1.8m) brought in,
"We came when not many others wanted to take on the challenge. We are spending less than we have for a very long time - people at the club might get upset with me saying that, but I am the only guy that ever talks to you and I will talk to you honestly. We are in a tricky moment."
1) he thinks WE are lucky to have HIM. Ha! We gave him an undeserved promotion.
2) We are spending less because we are no longer in the Premier League or have parachute payments. We are still spending more than 16 other Championship clubs.
3) You believe he is being honest? I believe he is desperate and under pressure. HE is in a tricky moment. Not "We".
"(Martin)...has turned around the careers of both Michael Obafemi and Joel Piroe, the latter at present looking like he wouldn’t get a game for 36-0 Bon Accord let alone the swans."
...what a joke. Obafemi was a promising youngster much sought after by Championship clubs. That is why he cost us £1.8m. Martin benched him
Piroe was a goalscorer wanted by Cooper. He was given to Martin instead (£1m) and was also benched.
In reality, these two saved Martin's Championship career.
Piroe is the best striker Martin will ever be fortunate enough to work with...and Martin has blown it.
"Everyone has a choice, to go with it or they can boo at me as much as they want, but it doesn't help the players. That is the situation."
"Russell Martin isn’t going anywhere.
The majority owners won’t invest another penny.
And the swans are nineteenth in the championship with no chance of salvation other than what they have. So shout as loud as you want, but how about trying to shout a little bit more positively this week, because nothing will change but the wind no matter how loud you become.
And nobody cares who can make a difference anyway."
...Excuse me!
Translation;
- Everything we claimed about Martin and his methods is clearly bull
- Martin has wasted our money and won't be given anymore unless he can shift some of the many players he has fallen out with.
- Shut up and take it, if you boo you're not a proper fan.
Do you know what is actually "not proper" though? This fraud of a manager.
P.S.
AND ANOTHER THING...
The Bennett situation
...Bennett was given a contract when he signed, we wanted him to sign.
He earned it under Cooper, he was a rock solid centre-back. He played like a captain.
We got to the Play-off final with him at the heart of the defence, a defence that leaked far less goals than we have conceded under Martin.
Martin comes in and plays him in his ludicrous 'system'. Bennett becomes a useful scapegoat for some of the fans, maybe he became a useful scapegoat for Martin as well...because it was Martin that binned him. Dropping Bennett from match day squads was celebrated by some of our more ignorant fans at the time.
We were told that this was because Martin did not want to trigger his contract extension...
Martin created the Bennett situation, seemingly without an exit plan.
Whatever is going on with Bennett is Martin's problem, he is the manager, he is employed to solve it... [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 23:27]
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You will always get an appropriate response when the personalisation of the posts are left to one side.
We report with an open mind, and offer the reader to think through the context. Some can do it others can’t. We support nobody specifically except Swansea City. And personally I don’t have the time to be drawn in to a debate on what people do or don’t understand or just want to be picky because they don’t understand balanced views.
We are not a propaganda outlet on our news section to encourage specific decisions by the club. We do offer a forum for others to do that, but that only comes with a degree of tolerance to others opinions. As you know, |  |
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| Russell Martin ‘ This is what we have got’ No more help from the USA ! on 00:54 - Aug 22 with 669 views | Dr_Parnassus |
I’m a big supporter of the site as you are aware. But even I was shocked to see some of the blame being deflected onto the owners and even Cooper (?!).
It does feel like there is an awful lot of sugarcoating going on when it comes to Martin. The article last week was excellent but was quickly removed, I assume because it came across as too negative which seems to be a capital punishment at the moment among some.
1 win in 11, no wins at home (except against a now league 1 team) in half a year.
Issues certainly seem like they are being swept under the carpet and think it’s exasperating a fair few fans who feel the genuine and real issues aren’t being addressed.
That’s my tuppence-worth. Honest as always as I’m sure you don’t mind. | |
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