| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread 21:55 - Dec 9 with 17597 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
CRY ‘GOD FOR HARRY (KANE), ENGLAND, AND SAINT GEORGE!
Prediction: England to struggle against Mbappe but have enough to defeat the other 10 players.
3-1 win. [Post edited 9 Dec 2022 22:02]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:53 - Dec 11 with 1227 views | LadbrokeR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:20 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
And yet here we are following the same path we've tread for most of the last 72 years convincing ourselves that 'next time will be it', 'If it wasn't for the referee' and 'no one wants to play us'...
But of course it's irrelevant. |
Hacker you love it. Broadly speaking I don’t disagree with you but this group should be judged on the distance they have travelled. For the record I’m not part of the it’s coming home brigade but let’s forget we did just lose to the world champions by the odd goal. |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:54 - Dec 11 with 1224 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:46 - Dec 11 by daveB |
One thing I never get about criticisms of England beating easy teams under Southgate is that the pressure on England in knockouts they are never easy. Nothing is ever made of the fact that really every tournament there are only ever 3/4 truly top class teams so you are never likely to play many of them until the final. Argentina haven't played a top team yet, they made hard work of Holland but don't think much of them anyway
Brazil had Korea and Croatia to get past for a semi and couldn't manage it. Spain knocked out by Morocco. France's only tough game was against us, other than that they need to beat Poland and morocco to reach a final.
Go back in time to previous winners. Germany used to play some right crap until the semi final but no one ever cared, Brazil beat Turkey in the semi final of 2002. The self loathing of England fans is unbelibable really. We always want a scapegoat. Hard to pick a player this time as they all did well so people going after the manager instead.
I don't see a single obvious English replacement for him at the moment, Potter probably the only one but hes not exactly doing great at Chelsea. I wouldn't want us to go for a foriegn manager again, just doesn't work imo |
Don't get me wrong, there are some great examples of teams winning trophies after easy runs or, in the case of others - Italy 1982 being the cliché - playing awful at the start but those team DID win those tournaments and beat good sides along the way. They also have had success after significantly hard runs too.
We not only don't win trophies- bar 1966 - but we don't beat good sides in knock outs either! [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:55]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:03 - Dec 11 with 1190 views | LadbrokeR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:54 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Don't get me wrong, there are some great examples of teams winning trophies after easy runs or, in the case of others - Italy 1982 being the cliché - playing awful at the start but those team DID win those tournaments and beat good sides along the way. They also have had success after significantly hard runs too.
We not only don't win trophies- bar 1966 - but we don't beat good sides in knock outs either! [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:55]
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Mate compile a list of the knockout games that we have won with Southgate as manager. Inclusive of the euros and World Cup. It’s not that bad | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:05 - Dec 11 with 1181 views | SydneyRs |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:33 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
We drew against Colombia. Penalty shoot outs do not determine a winner but who will progress.
As for improvement, it's a results business and losing to the 1st decent team you play in a knock out round is still losing whether its done stylishly or not and there's only more knock out wins because the tournaments have expanded and more weaker teams qualify. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:35]
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So we didn't lose the Euro final then, excellent news on an otherwise disappointing day 😄.
Yes it's a results business, but we always in the past lacked technical ability and relied on the fabled bulldog spirit.
Anyone who doesn't think the current generation isn't better than that is frankly an idiot. We were the better side for much of the game against France who are a great side. When in the past have we ever truly been able to say that against a top team at the business end of a big tournament?
Get behind the team FFS, plenty of chances to come and we're a better side now than we were in the last two tournaments where ironically we went further. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:14 - Dec 11 with 1159 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:05 - Dec 11 by SydneyRs |
So we didn't lose the Euro final then, excellent news on an otherwise disappointing day 😄.
Yes it's a results business, but we always in the past lacked technical ability and relied on the fabled bulldog spirit.
Anyone who doesn't think the current generation isn't better than that is frankly an idiot. We were the better side for much of the game against France who are a great side. When in the past have we ever truly been able to say that against a top team at the business end of a big tournament?
Get behind the team FFS, plenty of chances to come and we're a better side now than we were in the last two tournaments where ironically we went further. |
"Anyone who doesn't think the current generation isn't better than that is frankly an idiot. We were the better side for much of the game against France who are a great side. When in the past have we ever truly been able to say that against a top team at the business end of a big tournament?"
Actually saying this side aren't as good as some say is a valid opinion. They bully small nations and lose to the decent teams, no more, no less at the end of the day.
We were also the better team for most of the game against West Germany in 1970, 1990 and,for large chunks, against just Germany in 1996.
We were also the better team for large chunks of the match against Argentina in 1998 as against Portugal in 2004.
Last night is nothing new no matter how it is dressed up. An England team happy playing poor/average sides giving a good account of themselves against a better team but not winning...
Also, completely disagree with your opinion that pointing this out is somehow not getting behind the team. Pointing out that we have a significant historical problem which needs to be addressed is something ALL fans should be doing. It's time to stop seeing glorious failures and just see them for what they are, failures. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:19 - Dec 11 with 1131 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:03 - Dec 11 by LadbrokeR |
Mate compile a list of the knockout games that we have won with Southgate as manager. Inclusive of the euros and World Cup. It’s not that bad |
I already have compiled that list.
It reads Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark and Senegal...
Hardly the stuff of legends to be fair... | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:21 - Dec 11 with 1124 views | MedwayR |
I thought we were overly negative and too respectful last night. Southgate is always to conservative and it costs us, at some point we need to go out and beat teams.
Last night, France's back line was there for the taking. Kounde (a CB playing RB who offers little going forward), Varane (still a decent player but nowehere near the level he was before his injuries), Upamecano (absolute liability from the first minute), Hernandez (not much better than Upamecano). They panicked every time we went at them, every time we went forward we had a result of some sort - penalties, corners, free kicks, plus of course the fouls the ref missed. Yet, we didn't go at them, we didn't see fluid movement from our attackers, we should have been having a right go at that back line.
Foden was stuck isolated on the left, when he drifted inside he caused problems and created space for Shaw to go forward but this didn't happen anywhere near enough. Kane didn't drop deep at all which meant Bellingham, Henderson, Foden & Saka didn't get the opportunity to make runs beyond Kane into space, this was a big weapon in previous games yet we didn't use it at all. Saka had Hernandez tied up in knots but got taken off. Bellingham barely got forward all night.
Then the subs. Southgate's in-game management is somewhere between atrocious and non-existent. When Henderson ran out of steam Foden should've been moved into the middle and Rashford brought on to run at their shaky defence. Instead he brings on his favourite son Mount. Then he brings on Sterling who hasn't been in form and hasn't involved all week, what message does that send to the others. Cherry on the cake was bringing Grealish on with 2mins left, what's the point!
Southgate's negativity bled into the players and the team performance. They were slow to get out to the scorer for the first goal because they were on the back foot rather than imposing themselves. This then ramped up the pressure on Kane and then Rashford because they knew we wouldn't create chances, instead of hitting their efforts hard and on target they got overwhelmed and missed the target altogether, poor mental state brought on by desperation.
Finally, rank bad defending for Giroud's goal, we'd had a warning 2mins earlier then left him on his own AGAIN.
I can't see us winning anything with Southgate unless he changes, but I don't see any viable alternatives so I guess we stick with him for the time being... |  |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:29 - Dec 11 with 1106 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:21 - Dec 11 by MedwayR |
I thought we were overly negative and too respectful last night. Southgate is always to conservative and it costs us, at some point we need to go out and beat teams.
Last night, France's back line was there for the taking. Kounde (a CB playing RB who offers little going forward), Varane (still a decent player but nowehere near the level he was before his injuries), Upamecano (absolute liability from the first minute), Hernandez (not much better than Upamecano). They panicked every time we went at them, every time we went forward we had a result of some sort - penalties, corners, free kicks, plus of course the fouls the ref missed. Yet, we didn't go at them, we didn't see fluid movement from our attackers, we should have been having a right go at that back line.
Foden was stuck isolated on the left, when he drifted inside he caused problems and created space for Shaw to go forward but this didn't happen anywhere near enough. Kane didn't drop deep at all which meant Bellingham, Henderson, Foden & Saka didn't get the opportunity to make runs beyond Kane into space, this was a big weapon in previous games yet we didn't use it at all. Saka had Hernandez tied up in knots but got taken off. Bellingham barely got forward all night.
Then the subs. Southgate's in-game management is somewhere between atrocious and non-existent. When Henderson ran out of steam Foden should've been moved into the middle and Rashford brought on to run at their shaky defence. Instead he brings on his favourite son Mount. Then he brings on Sterling who hasn't been in form and hasn't involved all week, what message does that send to the others. Cherry on the cake was bringing Grealish on with 2mins left, what's the point!
Southgate's negativity bled into the players and the team performance. They were slow to get out to the scorer for the first goal because they were on the back foot rather than imposing themselves. This then ramped up the pressure on Kane and then Rashford because they knew we wouldn't create chances, instead of hitting their efforts hard and on target they got overwhelmed and missed the target altogether, poor mental state brought on by desperation.
Finally, rank bad defending for Giroud's goal, we'd had a warning 2mins earlier then left him on his own AGAIN.
I can't see us winning anything with Southgate unless he changes, but I don't see any viable alternatives so I guess we stick with him for the time being... |
He played three up front last night. | | | |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:32 - Dec 11 with 1104 views | MedwayR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:29 - Dec 11 by BazzaInTheLoft |
He played three up front last night. |
2 of which are midfielders playing as wide forwards, what's your point? | |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:38 - Dec 11 with 1079 views | paulparker |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:29 - Dec 11 by BazzaInTheLoft |
He played three up front last night. |
And then took off our best attacking threat for an out of form and jet lagged Sterling
And of course he had to get Mount on the pitch
Southgate has done well and this is his team that he built which no other England manager would have done but when it comes to the “big” games it’s the same story |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:42 - Dec 11 with 1065 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:32 - Dec 11 by MedwayR |
2 of which are midfielders playing as wide forwards, what's your point? |
My point is there was nothing negative about last night.
France only played one striker last night too.
I think the Southgate is conservative myth hasn’t been true this World Cup. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:44 - Dec 11 with 1055 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:38 - Dec 11 by paulparker |
And then took off our best attacking threat for an out of form and jet lagged Sterling
And of course he had to get Mount on the pitch
Southgate has done well and this is his team that he built which no other England manager would have done but when it comes to the “big” games it’s the same story |
Error. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 12:47]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:52 - Dec 11 with 1033 views | MedwayR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:42 - Dec 11 by BazzaInTheLoft |
My point is there was nothing negative about last night.
France only played one striker last night too.
I think the Southgate is conservative myth hasn’t been true this World Cup. |
France played Giroud, Mbappe & Dembele, all strikers plus Griezmann as a 10. But that's kind of irrelevant because even if we had played more forwards the approach was negative. You have to give the forward players the platform to perform, we were too static and conservative to do that.
Can we really say we left everything out there last night and that was truly our best? I don't think so, I've no problem with the effort but I don't think the intent was there because Southgate is often of a mindset of not losing games rather than winning them. | |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:52 - Dec 11 with 1027 views | Sonofpugwash |
There's a lot less grief and anger about last night's result I'm noticing.Maybe people don't give a toss anymore.I don't.
Today's game far more important |  |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:01 - Dec 11 with 1022 views | Match82 |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:52 - Dec 11 by Sonofpugwash |
There's a lot less grief and anger about last night's result I'm noticing.Maybe people don't give a toss anymore.I don't.
Today's game far more important |
I'd take the trade off of an England loss yesterday for a QPR win today |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:14 - Dec 11 with 1008 views | CamberleyR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:32 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Knock out games England have won:
1950 - none
1954 - none
1958 - none
1962 - none
1964 - Did not qualify
1966 - Argentina, Portugal and West Germany
1968 - none
1970 - none
1972 - Did not qualify
1974 - Did not qualify
1976 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1980 - none
1982 - none
1984 - Did not qualify
1986 - Paraguay
1988 - none
1990 - Belgium and Cameron
1992 - none
1994 - Did not qualify
1996 - none (penalties are used to determine who progresses not a winner after a draw)
1998 - none
2000 - none
2002 - Denmark
2004 - none
2006 - Ecuador
2008 - Did not qualify
2010 - none
2012 - none
2014 - none
2016 - none
2018 - Sweden
2021 - Germany, Ukraine, Denmark
2022 - Senegal
When's the penny going to drop that we're a B level international team relying of the luck of the draw or favourable opponents to have any success for the most part? Sure we occasionally give the top sides a good game but that's about it.
As for Southgate, yes there's more knock outs wins under his tenture as manager than there was combined since 1966, but the tournaments are expanded meaning more lesser teams qualify and he has one great win and even yhat was against an awful German side.
In 12 World Cup matches with him as manager we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Iran, Wales and Senegal. Drawn against Colombia and USA and lost to Belgium (twice), Croatia and France.
Let's stop pretending we're making great strides under him or he's been a great manager because even the run to the final on 2021 relied on facing average teams and the first decent side we met beat us. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 10:34]
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Don't want to be a massive pedant but in 1968 they won a knockout game against defending champions Spain (two legged QF) in the 1968 Euros. |  |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:39 - Dec 11 with 982 views | LadbrokeR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:19 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
I already have compiled that list.
It reads Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark and Senegal...
Hardly the stuff of legends to be fair... |
And Colombia. It's not the stuff of legends but neither is that bad. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:39 - Dec 11 with 978 views | Damo1962 |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:01 - Dec 11 by Match82 |
I'd take the trade off of an England loss yesterday for a QPR win today |
I'd take a draw. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:58 - Dec 11 with 950 views | distortR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:52 - Dec 11 by Sonofpugwash |
There's a lot less grief and anger about last night's result I'm noticing.Maybe people don't give a toss anymore.I don't.
Today's game far more important |
How's that going for you?  | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:59 - Dec 11 with 945 views | daveB |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:19 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
I already have compiled that list.
It reads Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark and Senegal...
Hardly the stuff of legends to be fair... |
Senegal current African Champions, Germany never easy, Denmark were a really good side last year. Ok none of them are as good as France but were not easy games and we did well to not only win them all but made most of them look easy. We lost to Iceland int he 2016 euros |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 14:00 - Dec 11 with 941 views | daveB |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:52 - Dec 11 by Hunterhoop |
Is Howe not proving that if you give him good players he can graft and exciting, high performing team at Newcastle?! What more could he do?? Takes over a team languishing. Is given money to invest, does so, but he doesn’t overhaul the whole thing. Indeed it is the improvement in Almiron, Joelinton, et al, that is startling. They are good, but not great, players who he is clearly getting a lot more out of.
Way ahead of Potter, IMO. |
He's not gonna leave Newcastle though is he? I don't think he's a realistic option | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 14:02 - Dec 11 with 934 views | Match82 |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:19 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
I already have compiled that list.
It reads Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark and Senegal...
Hardly the stuff of legends to be fair... |
Number of games in WC/Euros knockouts we had lost in 90 minutes under Southgate before yesterday: none.
If you're not including Colombia in that list because we won on penalties then really you're saying:
Wins: Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal
Losses: Croatia (in extra time), France
I'd argue thats exceeding expectations.
On a 90 minute basis it's won 5 drawn 1 lost 1 | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 16:24 - Dec 11 with 830 views | daveB |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:54 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Don't get me wrong, there are some great examples of teams winning trophies after easy runs or, in the case of others - Italy 1982 being the cliché - playing awful at the start but those team DID win those tournaments and beat good sides along the way. They also have had success after significantly hard runs too.
We not only don't win trophies- bar 1966 - but we don't beat good sides in knock outs either! [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:55]
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Thats an English thing though, happening long before Southgate was even a player let along manager. Bobby Robson regarded as one of our best ever only beat Paraguay, Belgium and Cameroon in knockouts, no one says he had an easy run to the famous defeats.
I just think watching international football for decades once you get to the knockouts doesn't matter where the team is ranked in the world is very rarley an easy game. Germany struggled to beat Algeria a few years back when they went on to win it, big nations have gone out of this one to teams they should beat on paper. England making those games look straight forward is a very positive thing imo rather than a stick to beat the manager with.
Last night felt a bit like 2002 in that get past that game and you are probably getting to the final but we played a lot better last night than we did in that 2002 one. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 16:48 - Dec 11 with 799 views | zizoustainrod |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:46 - Dec 11 by daveB |
One thing I never get about criticisms of England beating easy teams under Southgate is that the pressure on England in knockouts they are never easy. Nothing is ever made of the fact that really every tournament there are only ever 3/4 truly top class teams so you are never likely to play many of them until the final. Argentina haven't played a top team yet, they made hard work of Holland but don't think much of them anyway
Brazil had Korea and Croatia to get past for a semi and couldn't manage it. Spain knocked out by Morocco. France's only tough game was against us, other than that they need to beat Poland and morocco to reach a final.
Go back in time to previous winners. Germany used to play some right crap until the semi final but no one ever cared, Brazil beat Turkey in the semi final of 2002. The self loathing of England fans is unbelibable really. We always want a scapegoat. Hard to pick a player this time as they all did well so people going after the manager instead.
I don't see a single obvious English replacement for him at the moment, Potter probably the only one but hes not exactly doing great at Chelsea. I wouldn't want us to go for a foriegn manager again, just doesn't work imo |
Agree with everything you said there. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 17:34 - Dec 11 with 728 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 14:02 - Dec 11 by Match82 |
Number of games in WC/Euros knockouts we had lost in 90 minutes under Southgate before yesterday: none.
If you're not including Colombia in that list because we won on penalties then really you're saying:
Wins: Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal
Losses: Croatia (in extra time), France
I'd argue thats exceeding expectations.
On a 90 minute basis it's won 5 drawn 1 lost 1 |
Those wins are par for course for England though except for Germany but that comes with a massive asterisk next to it. Southgate is also lucky to be managing in an era were we have ridiculously sized World Cups and European Championships which ensure more weaker teams participating.
The problem is that we don't/can't beat elite teams in knock out matches and at some point you're going to have to beat someone of note.
72 years of International competition and we've beaten no elite teams in a knock out match played away from Wembley... At which point do we say 'hang on, this can't all be coincidence'? | | | |
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