| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? 12:24 - Jan 27 with 6489 views | IOMDale |
Forgive me if this has previously been mentioned but it’s the first I’ve heard of potential involvement in a multi-club model, similar to the City Group. To be honest, I think this could be the way forward for a club like ours as we get to retain our identity but also have access to facilities and structures that we’d otherwise never afford:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/rochdale-premier-league-todd-boehly |  |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 12:40 - Jan 27 with 5092 views | IOMDale |
Seems to be part of a coordinated press release as Business Insider and others are reporting it too. | |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 12:47 - Jan 27 with 5051 views | fitzochris |
It has been syndicated by the Press Association. I’ve received it on the wire.
Had shareholders been informed prior? |  |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 12:48 - Jan 27 with 5046 views | IOMDale |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 12:47 - Jan 27 by fitzochris |
It has been syndicated by the Press Association. I’ve received it on the wire.
Had shareholders been informed prior? |
I can only speak for myself but no, I hadn’t received any prior information.
These are the small things the club can (and should) be doing better. News as big as this should not be coming out of the blue. | |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 12:58 - Jan 27 with 4985 views | 49thseason |
This is a smart move by Simon, it lets others know we are looking for investment and points to a different way forward for clubs like us, especially ones with a history of bringing youngsters through. There are literally 1000s of young players at Premier league clubs and clubs around Europe and the Americas who need proper game time, feeding some of them in to a club like Rochdale works for everyone. You would hope that if this idea is a genuine runner that RMBC and the EFL will welcome and support it. Certainly its much more interesting than some of the other options out there. |  | | |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 13:04 - Jan 27 with 4952 views | DaleiLama |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 12:47 - Jan 27 by fitzochris |
It has been syndicated by the Press Association. I’ve received it on the wire.
Had shareholders been informed prior? |
No |  |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 13:08 - Jan 27 with 4911 views | DaleiLama |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 12:58 - Jan 27 by 49thseason |
This is a smart move by Simon, it lets others know we are looking for investment and points to a different way forward for clubs like us, especially ones with a history of bringing youngsters through. There are literally 1000s of young players at Premier league clubs and clubs around Europe and the Americas who need proper game time, feeding some of them in to a club like Rochdale works for everyone. You would hope that if this idea is a genuine runner that RMBC and the EFL will welcome and support it. Certainly its much more interesting than some of the other options out there. |
From a financial pov, it might be the best solution - time will tell - but what we don't want is to become (for example) a City D team. We (mostly) all support Dale for a reason. It's certainly not because they might one day be a City D team. | |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 13:33 - Jan 27 with 4816 views | D_Alien |
Putting aside the vexed issue of retaining our identity for one moment, what are the chances of this working should Dale find themselves struggling in the NL? |  |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 13:56 - Jan 27 with 4704 views | James1980 |
Mate of mine went to watch the Belgium club that Tony Bloom (Brighton's chairman) is owner of, Royale Union Saint-Gilloise. He said he had great time.
Not sure of the relevance to this thread but in my mind I feel like there is one. |  |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 13:57 - Jan 27 with 4698 views | electricblue |
Quite interesting to read and our chairman is trying to do what he can..
But surely this will only happen if Dale have the proper training facilities to coach players and to train on....
Multi club model is something that including myself have nevet even heard of....
But where does this leave the club as a fan owned club..... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 14:11 - Jan 27 with 4635 views | scooby |
anyone with a link that works without subscription or hasnt been deleted? | | | |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 14:23 - Jan 27 with 4562 views | Dale69er |
Apologies HullDale. Didn't mean to mark you down. Finger trouble on the phone keypad. |  | | |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 14:26 - Jan 27 with 4549 views | 49thseason |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 14:11 - Jan 27 by scooby |
anyone with a link that works without subscription or hasnt been deleted? |
12ft.io is your friend..... | | | |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 14:26 - Jan 27 with 4548 views | Dale69er |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 14:23 - Jan 27 by Dale69er |
Apologies HullDale. Didn't mean to mark you down. Finger trouble on the phone keypad. |
Re shareholders being informed, this is the first I've heard of it. | | | |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 14:31 - Jan 27 with 4535 views | 49thseason |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 13:57 - Jan 27 by electricblue |
Quite interesting to read and our chairman is trying to do what he can..
But surely this will only happen if Dale have the proper training facilities to coach players and to train on....
Multi club model is something that including myself have nevet even heard of....
But where does this leave the club as a fan owned club..... |
Maybe thats what the incoming investment will be used for? Bearing in mind we would only need to help 1 young player to become a £10 or £20m player for the investing consortium to get its investment back with interest. | | | |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 15:01 - Jan 27 with 4444 views | D_Alien |
Absolutely thinking through all the issues we discuss on here
Several keys points, but the most important to where we are now is this:
"It’s a science in itself to recruit footballers. We’ve still got the old model here where the manager comes in and gets all the players, but undoubtedly we need to move away from that. But (appointing) a director of football and scouts puts another £250,000 a year on your costs, which we can’t do."
Yes, it's coming as "news" to us, but it's already been pointed out - how else might he have gone about this? It's his money and that of his fellow board members at stake - which saved the club in its hour of desperate need - and advertising it to shareholders ahead of release in the media may not have produced the result needed, and therefore their stakes at risk, on top of the dog's abuse
Ultimately, if shareholders don't like it, they can vote it down as happened before
[Post edited 27 Jan 2023 15:07]
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 15:31 - Jan 27 with 4353 views | 442Dale |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 15:01 - Jan 27 by D_Alien |
Absolutely thinking through all the issues we discuss on here
Several keys points, but the most important to where we are now is this:
"It’s a science in itself to recruit footballers. We’ve still got the old model here where the manager comes in and gets all the players, but undoubtedly we need to move away from that. But (appointing) a director of football and scouts puts another £250,000 a year on your costs, which we can’t do."
Yes, it's coming as "news" to us, but it's already been pointed out - how else might he have gone about this? It's his money and that of his fellow board members at stake - which saved the club in its hour of desperate need - and advertising it to shareholders ahead of release in the media may not have produced the result needed, and therefore their stakes at risk, on top of the dog's abuse
Ultimately, if shareholders don't like it, they can vote it down as happened before
[Post edited 27 Jan 2023 15:07]
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Makes sense most of that, as would the club now releasing their own statement on it via the website/email to acknowledge reports and fill in any gaps they may feel the media article may have missed.
If it’s all there, they can pretty much reproduce it. |  |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 16:20 - Jan 27 with 4229 views | DaleiLama |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 15:01 - Jan 27 by D_Alien |
Absolutely thinking through all the issues we discuss on here
Several keys points, but the most important to where we are now is this:
"It’s a science in itself to recruit footballers. We’ve still got the old model here where the manager comes in and gets all the players, but undoubtedly we need to move away from that. But (appointing) a director of football and scouts puts another £250,000 a year on your costs, which we can’t do."
Yes, it's coming as "news" to us, but it's already been pointed out - how else might he have gone about this? It's his money and that of his fellow board members at stake - which saved the club in its hour of desperate need - and advertising it to shareholders ahead of release in the media may not have produced the result needed, and therefore their stakes at risk, on top of the dog's abuse
Ultimately, if shareholders don't like it, they can vote it down as happened before
[Post edited 27 Jan 2023 15:07]
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Quite.
No one person or group is above criticism, but some of the stuff I've read about the work this board has done is frankly mind-boggling and in some cases embarrassing. Grown men and women sat behind keyboards ranting (and in some cases raving) about a group of men and women who 1/ filled a massive void at the head of our club, taking on a thankless task - let's face it if things are going well, not many say the board are fantastic - and they paid for the privilege of a seat at the table if the rules remain the same, 2/ given up large chunks of their own personal time for free and 3/ put a six figure sum each in, from recent reports, to avoid a court case.
Anyone who stands up to be counted when no one else would or could has more than earned the right to develop a strategy which they collectively think gives the club the best chance to improve, whilst playing a frankly bloody awful hand that they inherited. As you say, if the majority of shareholders disapprove, it will be voted down, but for the love of God, at least give them the dues they deserve and the opportunity to succeed rather than second guessing every move that is made.
I do agree that some of the communication recently comes under the "could be improved" category, ex-CEO stlye, but unlike that regime, I don't believe this one is operating with an ounce of malice in mind. Just survival. | |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 22:13 - Jan 27 with 3813 views | RAFCBLUE |
Back to the OP.....
As we know, football is broken. It has been broken for some time but the longstanding nature of English football is still attractive because of the riches of the Premier League.
Have a read of this:
https://theathletic.com/3610992/2022/09/21/multi-club-ownership-boehly-chelsea-c
"Across Europe’s ‘big five’ leagues, 32.7 per cent of sides are part of multi-club models, linked to a total network of 91 other teams.
Leagues are closing up. The gaps in each country between the top league and those below it are widening and the authorities are not really that bothered because TV income is what matters and how you can stream that match onto a device over the internet trumps having fans in grounds.
What is staggering is the number of clubs in the 92 of the English pyramid that are signed up to this type of model:
* Arsenal - 1st in the Premier League
* Manchester City - 2nd in the Premier League
* Brighton - 6th in the Premier League
* Brentford - 8th in the Premier League
* Crystal Palace - 12th in the Premier League
* Nottingham Forest - 13th in the Premier League
* Leicester City - 14th in the Premier League
* West Ham - 16th in the Premier League
* Southampton - 20th in the Premier League
* Sheffield United - 2nd in the Championship
* Watford - 3rd in the Championship
* Sunderland - 9th in the Championship
* Swansea - 12th in the Championship
* Queens Park Rangers - 13th in the Championship
* Cardiff City - 21st in the Championship
* Ipswich Town - 3rd in League 1
* Barnsley - 6th in League 1
* Fleetwood Town - 17th in League 1
* Salford City - 5th in League 2
19 of the 92 (21%). 15 of the 44 (34%) in the top 2 divisions.
The prize is obvious. Get a club into the Premier League and you get a business that is worth billions of dollars.
https://offthepitch.com/a/premier-league-financial-forecast-2022-liverpool-set-o
Effective business people are playing a longstanding statistic based game. 20 years on from the Michael Lewis book which is all perfectly legal as long as you own just one club in the relevant FIFA country.
Take Manchester City:
10 clubs. 10 age groups per club. 30 players per squad.
That's 3000 players worldwide of all ages, abilities and a way to move them around Europe from South America, Africa and Asia and within that there will be 11 good ones.
I'm not advocating for or against but it is more prevalent than anyone accepts or realises with a media that focus on the Premier League and not the opaque business behind it. Then string that it La Liga, Lique 1, Seria A and the Bundesliga and that will show how much it is all about the TV / streaming money from consumers.
The EFL are trying currently to get a better settlement for the 72 clubs outside of the Premier League.
But this isn't football anymore, its farming. |  |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 22:20 - Jan 27 with 3780 views | 442Dale |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 22:13 - Jan 27 by RAFCBLUE |
Back to the OP.....
As we know, football is broken. It has been broken for some time but the longstanding nature of English football is still attractive because of the riches of the Premier League.
Have a read of this:
https://theathletic.com/3610992/2022/09/21/multi-club-ownership-boehly-chelsea-c
"Across Europe’s ‘big five’ leagues, 32.7 per cent of sides are part of multi-club models, linked to a total network of 91 other teams.
Leagues are closing up. The gaps in each country between the top league and those below it are widening and the authorities are not really that bothered because TV income is what matters and how you can stream that match onto a device over the internet trumps having fans in grounds.
What is staggering is the number of clubs in the 92 of the English pyramid that are signed up to this type of model:
* Arsenal - 1st in the Premier League
* Manchester City - 2nd in the Premier League
* Brighton - 6th in the Premier League
* Brentford - 8th in the Premier League
* Crystal Palace - 12th in the Premier League
* Nottingham Forest - 13th in the Premier League
* Leicester City - 14th in the Premier League
* West Ham - 16th in the Premier League
* Southampton - 20th in the Premier League
* Sheffield United - 2nd in the Championship
* Watford - 3rd in the Championship
* Sunderland - 9th in the Championship
* Swansea - 12th in the Championship
* Queens Park Rangers - 13th in the Championship
* Cardiff City - 21st in the Championship
* Ipswich Town - 3rd in League 1
* Barnsley - 6th in League 1
* Fleetwood Town - 17th in League 1
* Salford City - 5th in League 2
19 of the 92 (21%). 15 of the 44 (34%) in the top 2 divisions.
The prize is obvious. Get a club into the Premier League and you get a business that is worth billions of dollars.
https://offthepitch.com/a/premier-league-financial-forecast-2022-liverpool-set-o
Effective business people are playing a longstanding statistic based game. 20 years on from the Michael Lewis book which is all perfectly legal as long as you own just one club in the relevant FIFA country.
Take Manchester City:
10 clubs. 10 age groups per club. 30 players per squad.
That's 3000 players worldwide of all ages, abilities and a way to move them around Europe from South America, Africa and Asia and within that there will be 11 good ones.
I'm not advocating for or against but it is more prevalent than anyone accepts or realises with a media that focus on the Premier League and not the opaque business behind it. Then string that it La Liga, Lique 1, Seria A and the Bundesliga and that will show how much it is all about the TV / streaming money from consumers.
The EFL are trying currently to get a better settlement for the 72 clubs outside of the Premier League.
But this isn't football anymore, its farming. |
It’s bloody rubbish is what it is.
The club need to explain in detail what such a move would mean to our club. Plenty of words mean little, as do media reports.
Spell it out in simplistic terms as how we will benefit as a club, irrespective of league, whilst retaining our unique identity.
At least it’s not nonsense about having a ground shared with a rival! | |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 22:48 - Jan 27 with 3705 views | RAFCBLUE |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 22:20 - Jan 27 by 442Dale |
It’s bloody rubbish is what it is.
The club need to explain in detail what such a move would mean to our club. Plenty of words mean little, as do media reports.
Spell it out in simplistic terms as how we will benefit as a club, irrespective of league, whilst retaining our unique identity.
At least it’s not nonsense about having a ground shared with a rival! |
I'm not sure how real it is as a possibility either. Salford City have Peter Lim of Valencia and whilst I am sure it has advantages it also is not a guarantee.
There are also some quite tight rules that need to be followed:
https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-multi-club-ownership-questions-you-want
What, exactly, are the rules in England at the moment?
Under FA and Premier League rules, an owner or director of a football club must adhere to the Owners & Directors Test, which applies to all directors and individuals with a greater than 30% shareholding. Anyone who owns more than this shareholding in another club would fall outside the remit of the fit and proper test and thus fail it. It is prohibited for the owners or directors of a football club to have the power to influence the management of another club.
Noting, that due to the actions of a former CEO, the club has a six point suspended penalty until October 2024 and as we all know passing the OADT is one of the key parts of getting to own a football club.
However what is clear is that it is not one owner one club any longer; for the biggest clubs there is some form of diversification of players and talent across various levels but helping those clubs in their respective countries progress. | |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 23:00 - Jan 27 with 3664 views | D_Alien |
Supposing Dale drew the parent club in the FA Cup
If the parent club (by the 3rd Round in early January) were out of the running for the league title, out of the League Cup and if, like Chelsea at the moment for instance, struggling to achieve a high enough finish to qualify for Europe on which their financial model depends, what pressures might be applied to ensure Dale didn't cause an upset? | |
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 23:07 - Jan 27 with 3639 views | RAFCBLUE |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 23:00 - Jan 27 by D_Alien |
Supposing Dale drew the parent club in the FA Cup
If the parent club (by the 3rd Round in early January) were out of the running for the league title, out of the League Cup and if, like Chelsea at the moment for instance, struggling to achieve a high enough finish to qualify for Europe on which their financial model depends, what pressures might be applied to ensure Dale didn't cause an upset? |
That’s not possible DA under the rules.
It’s not possible to own two clubs in the same competitions (ie England) for the conflict of interest reason you describe.
Multi club is about being involved in different clubs in different countries.
So someone in Belgium might want an English club, a Scottish club, a French club and then share management to manage 4 clubs in multiple competitions but they too can’t play each other.
The money is in player management and sales. Beneficial are a good example of a factory club which feeds the Premier League and makes millions doing so. [Post edited 27 Jan 2023 23:08]
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| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 23:14 - Jan 27 with 3601 views | D_Alien |
| ‘Dale as part of a multi-club model? on 23:07 - Jan 27 by RAFCBLUE |
That’s not possible DA under the rules.
It’s not possible to own two clubs in the same competitions (ie England) for the conflict of interest reason you describe.
Multi club is about being involved in different clubs in different countries.
So someone in Belgium might want an English club, a Scottish club, a French club and then share management to manage 4 clubs in multiple competitions but they too can’t play each other.
The money is in player management and sales. Beneficial are a good example of a factory club which feeds the Premier League and makes millions doing so. [Post edited 27 Jan 2023 23:08]
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Ah, thanks - i haven't read through the rules
(No point speculating on Dale getting drawn against the parent club in European competition either!)
But it does beg the question: does it put a limit on the ambitions of a club in domestic leagues; either explicity or implicitly? | |
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