| Pensions Advice 12:56 - May 12 with 5167 views | BrianMcCarthy |
"Ever worked in the UK? Here’s your step-by-step to buying yourself a UK state pension alongside your Irish one — and on the cheap"
https://mwm.ie/uk-state-pension-entitlement-guide/
More advice sought from the LFW experts, please.
Quite a bit of stir back in Ireland about this opportunity to buy/top up UK pensions for those Irish people who have worked there.
My family have put me in charge of finding out about it, but I haven't an iota about pensions so I'm asking the brains trust.
Slightly different situation for my brother and I as we were born in England and worked there for eight years as adults. The rest of my family were born in Ireland.
Any info on entitlements would be greatly appreciated.
As ever.
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| Pensions Advice on 14:14 - May 12 with 4408 views | elnombre |
Briefly, for anyone who has worked a min of 3 years or so in the UK:
in general, you can buy ‘missed’ state pension years; each will cost you just over 800, and for that you will get around 300 per year extra on your state pension. In theory then, this will pay for itself within just three years of pension in payment, after which you are quids in (as we finance professionals put it).
Normally, you can only go back 6 years to fill gaps in your NI record, but during this transitional phase, you are allowed to go back to 2006, meaning that you could buy any/all of those additional 11 missing years.
On the face of it, a good deal, but caveats:
you will need to find up to 9k or so up front — you could be investing that money elsewhere until your NRA — so there is an opportunity cost, esp if that is a good while.
You will need over 10 years of UK NICs in total to claim any ‘new’ state pension.
If you are under 40 or so and continuing to work, chances are you will earn the max 35 years anyhow - any extras purchased would be wasted.
You would need to reckon on living past 71 or so to make any return at all.
Pensions are taxable — if you are receiving both Irish and UK pensions or have other income, you may find tax eliminating any potential benefit.
I would bet on UK pensions being means-tested or otherwise restricted in the next 20 years - there are no guarantees...
I have been out of the industry for a while so apologies for the ill-informed, definitely-not-advice! First stop is the Future Pension Centre.
Oh, think I saw it discussed in passing in the Times (goes to google):
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/article/national-insurance-contributions |  | | |
| Pensions Advice on 14:20 - May 12 with 4376 views | BklynRanger |
Good info nombre - thanks.
So since I was out of the UK from 1999 to end of 2016, I could in theory pay 8,800 and fill in 10 or possibly 11 of those years?
Do you know when that option will end? I'd need to decide if it was worth it as you say - which would be a hell of a job tbh. Pensions fry my brain. [Post edited 12 May 2023 14:21]
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| Pensions Advice on 14:43 - May 12 with 4327 views | elnombre |
Yup, I believe you would be entitled to make up those 10 years. It is a tricky balancing act, though, and I've not even touched on alternatives - the obvious one: if you are not presently paying into a pension, you could be putting 2880 per year into a SIPP, to which HMRC will add 720 completely free. Should you die, that 3600 is still yours (err, your beneficiaries'), whereas your state pension 'investment' dies with you - potentially 9K wasted if that is before age 71 (hopefully you are taking your vitamins and getting some exercise though).
I think the deadline has been extended to 31st July. [Post edited 12 May 2023 14:45]
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| Pensions Advice on 14:51 - May 12 with 4300 views | EastR |
Brian (or anyone) know if the Irish government is offering the opposite for equivalency? (i.e someone who worked in Ireland for a period buying the gap years up to a limit) | |
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| Pensions Advice on 14:52 - May 12 with 4296 views | BklynRanger |
Cheers. I do pay into a work-based pension so I suppose I'd probably need to weigh up (soonish) if increasing that contribution would be a better option.
And vitamins, exercise - got it. This is good all round advice you're dispensing! | | | |
| Pensions Advice on 15:32 - May 12 with 4202 views | Boston |
That 'top up' is for the full pension. | |
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| Pensions Advice on 15:45 - May 12 with 4188 views | Paddyhoops |
| Pensions Advice on 14:51 - May 12 by EastR |
Brian (or anyone) know if the Irish government is offering the opposite for equivalency? (i.e someone who worked in Ireland for a period buying the gap years up to a limit) |
I think I can help you there East.
I was postman in Roscommon many moons ago ( ( 6 years )
Found my PRSI number with the help of my wonderful sister in law and have been told I’m entitled to a small pension. It won’t amount too much but it will help pay for following my team , a small west London club who were once a titan of the top flight when I arrived here in the eighties .
Well worth looking into. | | | |
| Pensions Advice on 15:51 - May 12 with 4171 views | EastR |
| Pensions Advice on 15:45 - May 12 by Paddyhoops |
I think I can help you there East.
I was postman in Roscommon many moons ago ( ( 6 years )
Found my PRSI number with the help of my wonderful sister in law and have been told I’m entitled to a small pension. It won’t amount too much but it will help pay for following my team , a small west London club who were once a titan of the top flight when I arrived here in the eighties .
Well worth looking into. |
good man, I'll follow that up | |
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| Pensions Advice on 16:08 - May 12 with 4132 views | JimmyR |
Hi Brain,
I am very familiar with this. You need to have 10 years NI contributions to get anything, you can go back the last 6 years and buy any years you've missed. You make that back in about 2.5 years when the state pension goes into payment, most likely when you are aged 67.
Fill in a BR19 form or do it online https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension
Certainly not a bad use of funds as a 10k income index linked from an insurance company in the form of an annuity would cost about 200k+
It's not a bad article but ignores some important points 'But there’s no better financial advice than to buy back these pension years' Well let me tell you, not if you die before it gets put into payment it's not! When you die, it will die with you. So every year/month you die closer to 67 the less valuable it is. Do you know when you are going to die? Of course not!
The article makes absolutely no mention of the fact that you do not get yearly inflationary increases if you live outside of the EEA, not a problem if you are going to stay in ireland but a glaring omission nonetheless
Let's say you buy 25 years for 20k - you are going to need to live to 69 just to get your 20k back.
Depending on how old you are - you might not get anything for another 10/15 years. If you put 20k into an ISA and got 7% p/a for 15 year you'd have 55k!!!
So definitely worth exploring and if you have 8 years it won't cost you much to get to 10.
But as for 'there’s no better financial advice than to buy back these pension years' well, bullshit! The devil is in the detail and assumptions with this stuff. You don't know for example if the UK government says over the next 10/15 years we ain't paying the state pension to anyone whos not a UK resident
The total spend on state pension is projected to be the entire amount in tax the government currently receives in tax revenue by 2050. I'm 39 - i won't be getting a state pension at the very least it will be means tested by the time i get there so effectively i could be punished for saving into my own pension | | | |
| Pensions Advice on 16:12 - May 12 with 4128 views | JimmyR |
Just to add if you are 66 and a half years old and in good health - probably a pretty good thing to do
If you are 48, 20 years is a long way away | | | |
| Pensions Advice on 16:27 - May 12 with 4084 views | lightwaterhoop |
Dont forget you will also have to pay commission on converting Sterling into Euro's or vice versa. | | | |
| Pensions Advice on 17:50 - May 12 with 3936 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Brilliant advice as ever folks.
Follow-up question. I worked in England from '88 to '96, eight years. So I don't qualify for this as less that ten years' NI? | |
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| Pensions Advice on 21:35 - May 12 with 3778 views | dubaistu |
| Pensions Advice on 14:20 - May 12 by BklynRanger |
Good info nombre - thanks.
So since I was out of the UK from 1999 to end of 2016, I could in theory pay 8,800 and fill in 10 or possibly 11 of those years?
Do you know when that option will end? I'd need to decide if it was worth it as you say - which would be a hell of a job tbh. Pensions fry my brain. [Post edited 12 May 2023 14:21]
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I’m no pension guru but do not pay £8k for 10 years. If you can prove you were working abroad, you complete a NIC class 2 form and its buttons you pay! I was away for 10 years and paid circa £1800 to catch up those missed years.
DM your email and I’ll send you the form to be filled, I did mine mid 2020, took about 8 weeks for it to show against Gov account |  | | |
| Pensions Advice on 22:15 - May 12 with 3732 views | numptydumpty |
| Pensions Advice on 17:50 - May 12 by BrianMcCarthy |
Brilliant advice as ever folks.
Follow-up question. I worked in England from '88 to '96, eight years. So I don't qualify for this as less that ten years' NI? |
Were you on any qualifying benefits at all any of other years or part time work.
Sometimes these can qualify as a year
Anyhow the following link will give you the accurate number of qualifying years so far and if so, how many years you can purchase and at what cost..
https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension |  |
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| Pensions Advice on 22:33 - May 12 with 3702 views | Boston |
I was surprised to see the figure was $185 approx per week. In the US the Govt money for those claiming is described as Social Security. You can claim from age 62, but payments rise the longer you leave it alone, maxing out at 70. I'm (sadly), entitled to pick up a cheque, but business is good so I haven't and hopefully won't need to. The payment is also linked to the taxes you paid while working, the more you chipped in, the more you will receive.
Edit...I was surprised because I'd be receiving 3/4 times that figure (if divided weekly), from Uncle Sam. [Post edited 12 May 2023 22:36]
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| Pensions Advice on 22:55 - May 12 with 3665 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Pensions Advice on 22:15 - May 12 by numptydumpty |
Were you on any qualifying benefits at all any of other years or part time work.
Sometimes these can qualify as a year
Anyhow the following link will give you the accurate number of qualifying years so far and if so, how many years you can purchase and at what cost..
https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension |
Thanks man.
Gent. | |
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| Pensions Advice on 23:00 - May 12 with 3642 views | qprxtc |
Because Im a moron, I never paid attention to education or pensions. Im hoping for the best and just stopping living in a few years.
Or less, this whole shebang is beyond all sensibilities. |  | | |
| Pensions Advice on 23:04 - May 12 with 3634 views | Boston |
| Pensions Advice on 22:33 - May 12 by Boston |
I was surprised to see the figure was $185 approx per week. In the US the Govt money for those claiming is described as Social Security. You can claim from age 62, but payments rise the longer you leave it alone, maxing out at 70. I'm (sadly), entitled to pick up a cheque, but business is good so I haven't and hopefully won't need to. The payment is also linked to the taxes you paid while working, the more you chipped in, the more you will receive.
Edit...I was surprised because I'd be receiving 3/4 times that figure (if divided weekly), from Uncle Sam. [Post edited 12 May 2023 22:36]
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Yeah, just checked it out, over four times that figure. [Post edited 12 May 2023 23:07]
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| Pensions Advice on 08:44 - May 13 with 3455 views | elnombre |
| Pensions Advice on 21:35 - May 12 by dubaistu |
I’m no pension guru but do not pay £8k for 10 years. If you can prove you were working abroad, you complete a NIC class 2 form and its buttons you pay! I was away for 10 years and paid circa £1800 to catch up those missed years.
DM your email and I’ll send you the form to be filled, I did mine mid 2020, took about 8 weeks for it to show against Gov account |
Thanks Dubai. that is absolutely correct, I ought to have remembered that class 2 voluntary NICs are about a fifth of the cost; makes it a fairly easy call in Brklyn's case, perhaps. Esp as he is proposing to live to 100. | | | |
| Pensions Advice on 10:29 - May 13 with 3389 views | BklynRanger |
Thanks both - this seems like the correct option and I may have some left over for cryogenic freezing | | | |
| Pensions Advice on 13:34 - May 13 with 3287 views | JimmyR |
| Pensions Advice on 17:50 - May 12 by BrianMcCarthy |
Brilliant advice as ever folks.
Follow-up question. I worked in England from '88 to '96, eight years. So I don't qualify for this as less that ten years' NI? |
Yeah that’s right you won’t get anything with only 8 years. You would be able to buy 2 tho
With 10 years you might get 10/35 * £203 per week or £58pw.I don’t actually know exactly how they calculate what you get, this is a logical guess you’d need double check this before handing over any of your hard earned cash | | | |
| Pensions Advice on 17:19 - May 13 with 3159 views | ThaiHoop |
If you're a Brit and live outside the UK there's a good chance you'll be able to pay class 2 NI contributions.
These work out at around only £160 a year to get a full year towards your state pension. |  | | |
| Pensions Advice on 13:19 - May 14 with 2963 views | kensalriser |
Does anybody have any advice on how to get a full pension having shirked for a living? [Post edited 17 May 2023 17:25]
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| Pensions Advice on 13:33 - May 14 with 2952 views | numptydumpty |
| Pensions Advice on 13:19 - May 14 by kensalriser |
Does anybody have any advice on how to get a full pension having shirked for a living? [Post edited 17 May 2023 17:25]
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If you are in a place you own, you can sell your home and either live in a tent or a car | |
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| Pensions Advice on 16:46 - May 17 with 2641 views | GloryHunter |
So are there any actual professional pensions advisors on this board? I have a simple question about annuities that I would like to ask someone who is not going to try to scam me. |  | | |
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