| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 11:16 - May 5 with 1684 views | vetchonian |
Good article though it was a little unfair on Luke at 36% win rate it is better that Martin achieved in his first season here and he had input to some pur player acquisition.
Yes in fairness Luke needs to have some time and a preseason.
He needs support....the club showed support to Duff last summer with what an £8M spend though I think we will agree not all if it was well spent....let's hope things are better done this time round.
I agree some strange selections yesterday....was Luke under.pressure from Arsenal and Chelsea would there have been financial penalties....I think we could see why Patino hasn't been used much...his agent kist be good to blow that Juventus rumour.
Fir me though it seems the knives are out for Luke already yet many of fans were saying his previous boss needed several transfer windows and time....yet it seems that despite arriving at the club in turmoil he is already being over crtiqued |  |
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 11:26 - May 5 with 1677 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 11:16 - May 5 by vetchonian |
Good article though it was a little unfair on Luke at 36% win rate it is better that Martin achieved in his first season here and he had input to some pur player acquisition.
Yes in fairness Luke needs to have some time and a preseason.
He needs support....the club showed support to Duff last summer with what an £8M spend though I think we will agree not all if it was well spent....let's hope things are better done this time round.
I agree some strange selections yesterday....was Luke under.pressure from Arsenal and Chelsea would there have been financial penalties....I think we could see why Patino hasn't been used much...his agent kist be good to blow that Juventus rumour.
Fir me though it seems the knives are out for Luke already yet many of fans were saying his previous boss needed several transfer windows and time....yet it seems that despite arriving at the club in turmoil he is already being over crtiqued |
Thanks for your observations, always fair 👍
I like Luke Williams, more chance of doing something with him than without.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 11:54 - May 5 with 1618 views | Dr_Winston |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 11:26 - May 5 by KeithHaynes |
Thanks for your observations, always fair 👍
I like Luke Williams, more chance of doing something with him than without.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Maybe.
A lot of faith being placed him based on not all that much so far. The team selection yesterday was absurd. He absolutely deserves a transfer window with everyone pulling in the same direction, but we need to see consistent improvement on what we've seen since January as a result. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 13:55 - May 5 with 1501 views | EagleEye |
“…had the Swans been relegated some real in your face action was planned.” …. this needs some more context and detail, got me hooked.
Based on our financial situation, LW is gonna have to get the youngsters integrated into the first team squad & on the field rapidly as I can’t see many incoming without shedding a lot of the out of contract bunch first, even then we will struggle to attract quality in the numbers required on our budget.
As for yesterday’s selection, just baffling … unless there was some kind of message or point being made. Even then sacrificing your chances of winning to make a point is a pretty extreme way to make a point even if was last game of a dreadful season |  | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 13:59 - May 5 with 1499 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 11:16 - May 5 by vetchonian |
Good article though it was a little unfair on Luke at 36% win rate it is better that Martin achieved in his first season here and he had input to some pur player acquisition.
Yes in fairness Luke needs to have some time and a preseason.
He needs support....the club showed support to Duff last summer with what an £8M spend though I think we will agree not all if it was well spent....let's hope things are better done this time round.
I agree some strange selections yesterday....was Luke under.pressure from Arsenal and Chelsea would there have been financial penalties....I think we could see why Patino hasn't been used much...his agent kist be good to blow that Juventus rumour.
Fir me though it seems the knives are out for Luke already yet many of fans were saying his previous boss needed several transfer windows and time....yet it seems that despite arriving at the club in turmoil he is already being over crtiqued |
I don't think he's ben over critiqued, I think he is getting what every other manager gets, a close look at his performance in conjunction with the team and the management above him.
It doesn't matter that his win rate is better than Martin, martin is gone and may nt even be at Saints much longer, if he fails to take them up.
What matters is that his win rate wasnt good enough, it needs to improve. To get there though, he needs the prer backing so the question is, will he get it? Or maybe we should ask if the owners can actually provide it? The owners performance thus far having been very lacking.
Even when you get past that there are still baffling decisions being made re selection, why have Kuharevych on the bench is you are never going to use him? Why use loan players in the last game and not our own youngsters when those loan players are leaving today?
On a more personal opinion, Matt Grimes, a lot of fans love him but hes definitely marmite. Personally I think he is the common denominator in our distinctly poor attacking form of the last 4 managers. He is the player who plays the most out of every outfield player, he is apparently our lynchpin but to me he's more like an anchor that has been thrown overboard prematurely and now keeps us wedged into our own half and drags our speed down to a crawl far too often. I can ignore that very bad penalty, it happens but the sideways and backwards nonsense that stops iur attacks, iften in full flow that gets changed into reverse by his "careful" approach. We may as well just play him at centre back and be done.
The knives aren't out for Williams, they are out for Coleman and Gude and the owners who have made baffling decisions that hold us back.
To re-iterate, I don't think it is unfair to point out that 36% win rate and 10 defeats at home isn't good enough. If we accept that we accept failure. Williams has to do better. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 14:23 - May 5 with 1447 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 13:59 - May 5 by SullutaCreturned |
I don't think he's ben over critiqued, I think he is getting what every other manager gets, a close look at his performance in conjunction with the team and the management above him.
It doesn't matter that his win rate is better than Martin, martin is gone and may nt even be at Saints much longer, if he fails to take them up.
What matters is that his win rate wasnt good enough, it needs to improve. To get there though, he needs the prer backing so the question is, will he get it? Or maybe we should ask if the owners can actually provide it? The owners performance thus far having been very lacking.
Even when you get past that there are still baffling decisions being made re selection, why have Kuharevych on the bench is you are never going to use him? Why use loan players in the last game and not our own youngsters when those loan players are leaving today?
On a more personal opinion, Matt Grimes, a lot of fans love him but hes definitely marmite. Personally I think he is the common denominator in our distinctly poor attacking form of the last 4 managers. He is the player who plays the most out of every outfield player, he is apparently our lynchpin but to me he's more like an anchor that has been thrown overboard prematurely and now keeps us wedged into our own half and drags our speed down to a crawl far too often. I can ignore that very bad penalty, it happens but the sideways and backwards nonsense that stops iur attacks, iften in full flow that gets changed into reverse by his "careful" approach. We may as well just play him at centre back and be done.
The knives aren't out for Williams, they are out for Coleman and Gude and the owners who have made baffling decisions that hold us back.
To re-iterate, I don't think it is unfair to point out that 36% win rate and 10 defeats at home isn't good enough. If we accept that we accept failure. Williams has to do better. |
He’s had an easy ride,Cat
Not as easy as Grimes though.
An insipid player ,,not. Bad player per se but one who is no captain,proven again yesterday .
A captain is responsible for implementation of coaches tactics and he should lead by example. Passing backwards and slowing our whole game up is not
He has has some good games but mainly he’s been ,to me,our weak link,as all goes through him. Stop him,a tea, stops us .Dead .
Example yesterday.,He tries to Messi,gets stuck,ball taken off him and Millwall break. And do it as speed.
We CAN do this ourselves but do not. Why? That is down to our coach. No excuses . No baloney | |
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 14:41 - May 5 with 1423 views | QJumpingJack |
Watson will have to do a season review - including an assessment on his signings across the season - like any professional club.
I would be interested to see how this is received. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 15:52 - May 5 with 1372 views | RichardO |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 14:23 - May 5 by onehunglow |
He’s had an easy ride,Cat
Not as easy as Grimes though.
An insipid player ,,not. Bad player per se but one who is no captain,proven again yesterday .
A captain is responsible for implementation of coaches tactics and he should lead by example. Passing backwards and slowing our whole game up is not
He has has some good games but mainly he’s been ,to me,our weak link,as all goes through him. Stop him,a tea, stops us .Dead .
Example yesterday.,He tries to Messi,gets stuck,ball taken off him and Millwall break. And do it as speed.
We CAN do this ourselves but do not. Why? That is down to our coach. No excuses . No baloney |
I've been critical of Grimes role dropping back to deep too often he had seem to started pushing further forward more especially with Naughton in the team but against Cardiff Naughton seemed to be told to push forward end up on top of the winger, as Grimes pushes on we left ourselves exposed but given the type of game and the crowd behind us we prevailed.
With Key and Tymon seemingly also to be told to push on Grimes has now reverted to dropping back but as we try and chase or win games he pushes forward but it leaves us over committed, he tracking back and covering seem to be much better and he had got back to the near post for Millwalls goal but the late arriving player wasn't tracked.
Thought Grimes is playing better at the moment but we really need his skills further forward but for me that means Key and Tymon really needs to be in their full back positions as we push up through the middle to then joined as required.At times yesterday Key was receiving the ball a yard away from Ronald so limiting our options great to get close and catching defenders flatfooted but that was not happen as both player were static. [Post edited 5 May 21:40]
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 16:27 - May 5 with 1342 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 13:59 - May 5 by SullutaCreturned |
I don't think he's ben over critiqued, I think he is getting what every other manager gets, a close look at his performance in conjunction with the team and the management above him.
It doesn't matter that his win rate is better than Martin, martin is gone and may nt even be at Saints much longer, if he fails to take them up.
What matters is that his win rate wasnt good enough, it needs to improve. To get there though, he needs the prer backing so the question is, will he get it? Or maybe we should ask if the owners can actually provide it? The owners performance thus far having been very lacking.
Even when you get past that there are still baffling decisions being made re selection, why have Kuharevych on the bench is you are never going to use him? Why use loan players in the last game and not our own youngsters when those loan players are leaving today?
On a more personal opinion, Matt Grimes, a lot of fans love him but hes definitely marmite. Personally I think he is the common denominator in our distinctly poor attacking form of the last 4 managers. He is the player who plays the most out of every outfield player, he is apparently our lynchpin but to me he's more like an anchor that has been thrown overboard prematurely and now keeps us wedged into our own half and drags our speed down to a crawl far too often. I can ignore that very bad penalty, it happens but the sideways and backwards nonsense that stops iur attacks, iften in full flow that gets changed into reverse by his "careful" approach. We may as well just play him at centre back and be done.
The knives aren't out for Williams, they are out for Coleman and Gude and the owners who have made baffling decisions that hold us back.
To re-iterate, I don't think it is unfair to point out that 36% win rate and 10 defeats at home isn't good enough. If we accept that we accept failure. Williams has to do better. |
The passing backwards and sideways is more often down to the player receiving than ball, or the player that doesn’t make a run into space that enables the more progressive pass, than the player actually passing it. Not Grimes specific. Applies to anyone in that role.
As Richard says, the more our fullbacks are asked to push up, the further back Grimes sits. He almost always looks better with Allen in the team when he’s got more freedom and a teammate always looking to give him a decent passing option. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 17:00 - May 5 with 1283 views | pembsjack |
The whole season has been a confusing mess. The most worrying aspect has to be the recruitment. That includes managerial recruitment in Duff and majority of signings been made in those two windows. Duff failed and got sacked, Watson and co get another transfer window to right their wrongs.
Id like to think Williams will come good, clearly he has got a lot to learn. But he is the third coach/manager to work with this set of players, it can't always be the coaches fault.
We have far too many players not fit to play for this club, normally I'd go into a close season worrying about who we are going to lose. This year I don't care, majority can clear off, too many below average players with work rates to match.
Fair play to any fans that stayed behind for a lap of honour, I honestly don.t think they deserve it this.
Hopefully, Watson, Coleman and their mates can pull a shrewd transfer window out of their questionable football knowledge minds. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 19:13 - May 5 with 1184 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 16:27 - May 5 by jack247 |
The passing backwards and sideways is more often down to the player receiving than ball, or the player that doesn’t make a run into space that enables the more progressive pass, than the player actually passing it. Not Grimes specific. Applies to anyone in that role.
As Richard says, the more our fullbacks are asked to push up, the further back Grimes sits. He almost always looks better with Allen in the team when he’s got more freedom and a teammate always looking to give him a decent passing option. |
And ciaches can sort this out | |
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 20:06 - May 5 with 1143 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 19:13 - May 5 by onehunglow |
And ciaches can sort this out |
It is coached. It’s to provide defensive cover if we get turned over with our fullbacks high up the pitch. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 08:55 - May 6 with 952 views | RichardO |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 20:06 - May 5 by jack247 |
It is coached. It’s to provide defensive cover if we get turned over with our fullbacks high up the pitch. |
As you say Grimes has been coached to drop back to cover the fullbacks, or more precisely cover the centrbacks as they get pulled out wide it has become his default position especially as we were relatively successful with Cooper but if you want Grimes further forward then you have to get your formation right.
We have seen this and last season teams picking us off as we over commit which we have done time and time again.
Under Martin we went ahead in games only to be back level within minutes because we kept the same formation and mindset we used to defend as the one that we used to attack with, when the opposition teams attacked us we were all over the place.
Under Williams against Millwall we changed tactics to attack through the middle in the secoond half as we had been ineffectual down the wings but we kept the same formation it left us looking defensively weaker as Millwall also changed their tactics with a much better press.
It is up the the coaches if they change tactics then they may have to change formations and mindsets.
If teams play defensively and go behind they will have to attack, if they come to attack and get ahead they may go defensive. It is the coaches job to teach his team to adjust to adjust accordingly.
Playing the right formation at the right time of the game as opposition change their tactics is something that Williams needs to learn
He had a tactic that worked against Rotherham with the intial setup and then the substitutions but against Millwall they needed to be adapted correctly, to suit the team we were up against , they weren't.
At the moment we do not look physically strong enough to cope with the press applied by teams intent on attacking us or for us to break through solid defences. [Post edited 6 May 11:51]
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 09:34 - May 6 with 903 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 20:06 - May 5 by jack247 |
It is coached. It’s to provide defensive cover if we get turned over with our fullbacks high up the pitch. |
Well,it’s where we are going wrong.
Right there .
It’s why we need a reset ,a complete change in tactics and foresight.
As Richard intimates,we are picked off all too easily.
Stifle or pressure Grimes and we fall on stony ground.
We should not be relying on Grimes for everything we do . | |
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 14:52 - May 6 with 791 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 16:27 - May 5 by jack247 |
The passing backwards and sideways is more often down to the player receiving than ball, or the player that doesn’t make a run into space that enables the more progressive pass, than the player actually passing it. Not Grimes specific. Applies to anyone in that role.
As Richard says, the more our fullbacks are asked to push up, the further back Grimes sits. He almost always looks better with Allen in the team when he’s got more freedom and a teammate always looking to give him a decent passing option. |
Sorry but no, if Key and Tymon are pushing up while Grimes drops back, how can he have no one to pass to going forward?
Grimes takes too long deciding to pass and gets closed down, that is the fact of it. many times he has a pass on but he always wants to play safe so a 60/40 forward pass is ignored for an 90/10 sideways or backwards pass.
it is Grimes slow play, slow thinking that costs us going forward. Other teams try the forward pass and statistically, sometimes it comes off. Grimes nearly always plays safe which is why his passing stats are so good.
When Grimes has dropped in between our centre backs then he often has no midfielder to pass too because he isn't in midfield, the centre back should have the ball and be passing to Grimes, not Grimes dropping very deep. It is his deepness that has often put us under pressure. many mistakes have happened because we muck about with it on the edge of our own box. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 15:48 - May 6 with 757 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 14:52 - May 6 by SullutaCreturned |
Sorry but no, if Key and Tymon are pushing up while Grimes drops back, how can he have no one to pass to going forward?
Grimes takes too long deciding to pass and gets closed down, that is the fact of it. many times he has a pass on but he always wants to play safe so a 60/40 forward pass is ignored for an 90/10 sideways or backwards pass.
it is Grimes slow play, slow thinking that costs us going forward. Other teams try the forward pass and statistically, sometimes it comes off. Grimes nearly always plays safe which is why his passing stats are so good.
When Grimes has dropped in between our centre backs then he often has no midfielder to pass too because he isn't in midfield, the centre back should have the ball and be passing to Grimes, not Grimes dropping very deep. It is his deepness that has often put us under pressure. many mistakes have happened because we muck about with it on the edge of our own box. |
Watch him when he’s playing alongside Allen, who demands the ball and makes runs, which either put him in a position for a more constructive pass or draws markers away from other players. Compare that to how he looks when he plays alongside Fulton (or Patino Saturday) who doesn’t.
He’s far more forward thinking and instinctive when he’s got options ahead of him.
Yes, he does nearly always play safe, because as frustrating as it is, it’s better than a 50/50 ball.
The last paragraph - that’s clearly the instructions Gtimes and the two centre backs are given. They split, the fullbacks push on and Grimes drops into the middle. If you think they should be more central, Grimes should be further forward and the fullbacks further back, fair enough but that’s a Williams thing not a Grimes thing. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 20:33 - May 6 with 633 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 15:48 - May 6 by jack247 |
Watch him when he’s playing alongside Allen, who demands the ball and makes runs, which either put him in a position for a more constructive pass or draws markers away from other players. Compare that to how he looks when he plays alongside Fulton (or Patino Saturday) who doesn’t.
He’s far more forward thinking and instinctive when he’s got options ahead of him.
Yes, he does nearly always play safe, because as frustrating as it is, it’s better than a 50/50 ball.
The last paragraph - that’s clearly the instructions Gtimes and the two centre backs are given. They split, the fullbacks push on and Grimes drops into the middle. If you think they should be more central, Grimes should be further forward and the fullbacks further back, fair enough but that’s a Williams thing not a Grimes thing. |
A Williams thing? maybe but he's been doing it since martin and I don't think Duff was telling him to drop so deep, he's entirely differnt to Williams and Martin.
On the other hand, why has Williams been so angry? Why so critical of the poor performances? I mean if thats his instructions? | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 21:07 - May 6 with 600 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 20:33 - May 6 by SullutaCreturned |
A Williams thing? maybe but he's been doing it since martin and I don't think Duff was telling him to drop so deep, he's entirely differnt to Williams and Martin.
On the other hand, why has Williams been so angry? Why so critical of the poor performances? I mean if thats his instructions? |
Do you honestly think the centre backs splitting to the point they are both close to the touchline and the fullbacks pushing that far forward isn’t exactly what he’s instructed them to do?
Grimes, who is a far better ball carrier and distributer than any of our centre backs, dropping between the centre backs is part of that. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 08:17 - May 8 with 368 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 21:07 - May 6 by jack247 |
Do you honestly think the centre backs splitting to the point they are both close to the touchline and the fullbacks pushing that far forward isn’t exactly what he’s instructed them to do?
Grimes, who is a far better ball carrier and distributer than any of our centre backs, dropping between the centre backs is part of that. |
In which case, given our constant ability to concede sloppy goals because of playingtoo manypasses in and around our own penalty area, are you saying the manager/coach is aways the reason because its his instructions?
Grimes comes back for the ball when there are forward passes on, he plays short, 5 yard passes on the edge of our box and players like Cabango get caught out because they aren't good enough with ball at feet.
Ill just have to take that to mean that yet again we have a manager/coach who won't get the best out of the squad because he has them playing in a way that we just cannot play succesfully unless the owner spend masses of cash on better players and we know that won't happen. | | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 10:02 - May 8 with 325 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 08:17 - May 8 by SullutaCreturned |
In which case, given our constant ability to concede sloppy goals because of playingtoo manypasses in and around our own penalty area, are you saying the manager/coach is aways the reason because its his instructions?
Grimes comes back for the ball when there are forward passes on, he plays short, 5 yard passes on the edge of our box and players like Cabango get caught out because they aren't good enough with ball at feet.
Ill just have to take that to mean that yet again we have a manager/coach who won't get the best out of the squad because he has them playing in a way that we just cannot play succesfully unless the owner spend masses of cash on better players and we know that won't happen. |
Yes
We need a pragmatist for a coach
We do not have the finances for an idealist
Next season gonna be really tough | |
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| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 10:33 - May 8 with 290 views | Whiterockin |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 10:02 - May 8 by onehunglow |
Yes
We need a pragmatist for a coach
We do not have the finances for an idealist
Next season gonna be really tough |
Next season we will be pushing for the playoffs and if not there will be a major restructuring of the clubs senior management. A no lose situation. |  | | |
| Swansea City : The confusing decision making for a whole season on 10:50 - May 8 with 276 views | RichardO |
The way the season went dictated many of the decisions made, injuries and behind the scenes issues which most of us are unaware off, Williams he came in totally inexperienced at this level to a hard run of games.
It does seem as if injuries have destroyed any impetus we tried to get this season starting with Ginnelly, Ashby in the rightback position and then once Key was able to play in the position we all expected him to be in after filling in on the left he also got injured add the impact that Parker made and he also suffered injuries put Placheta on the injury list with Allen and Naughton . These type of things meant we struggled to get any shape to our team.
Once William's had got past his run against the top teams he sensibly resort to experienced player to make for his obvious deficiencies, he was limited in how much game time he could give the experienced player.
We seemed to use the odds and sods to gain enough points to at least progress up the table.
Injuries to Darling then Fulton and with Wood looking to be on his way out the door then he picked players who had done relatively well in the position needed. The Millwall game could have gone either way.
If you look back on the effect of losing just one player in the past, Bodde, Fer or Michu the loss of so many players this season has had a devastating effect.
A lot have asked why didn't he play academy players in starting line ups, think he went with players he thought could keep us in games and then give them 30 minutes be more effective in a more competitive league.
I have seen things in William teams set up, same as Martin's that just don't work.
I wonder if there is anyone in his coaching setup will tell him so or will he be able to work out the issues that need to be addressed. | | | |
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