| A European Army 17:52 - Jan 22 with 1046 views | johnlangy |
We’ve been shown since Donald Trump became POTUS for the second time that we can no longer depend on the US as an ally in regard to defence. The fact that they are a member of NATO currently does not mean that there’s a guarantee that they will continue to be. And even when Trump’s second term finishes it’s possible that the US may well vote J D Vance in as the next President. Which will mean more of the same chaos.
The question the UK needs to address now is what direction we should go to ensure our future safety as a nation.
We can’t, in my opinion as I’ve said above, rely on the US. And we certainly don’t trust China, those two being by far the biggest economies in the world. The US GDP is 29 trillion dollars and China’s is 19 trillion.
The EU by comparison, even though it is made up of 27 countries, has a GDP of 22.5 trillion dollars.
I’ve said in other threads that I believe the UK must now negotiate with the EU and other European countries in forming essentially a European army. A hugely difficult task. But the fact that all those other European countries face the same problem as the UK should, in theory, make the discussions easier. The peace that they’ve essentially enjoyed for the last 80 or so years is under threat from the same enemy and even if the Ukraine war hopefully ends soon there’s no way in the world we should ever trust Russia again.
Going back to the GDP of the EU. If you add in the GDP of the UK and the other non EU countries the total will be around the same as the US. So even if the negotiations are extremely difficult, financially at least there is absolutely no reason why a European army could not easily deal with any threat from Russia whose GDP is a paltry 2.2 trillion.
It’s easy to just point at the numbers. But we do all face the same problem and whether a country is run by a right wing, a left wing or a centrist Government they all need an answer to that problem.
None of us can address that problem on our own. |  | | |  |
| A European Army on 18:10 - Jan 22 with 1015 views | union_jack |
You said it yourself John, it’s a huge task. The disparateness of the European members and ourselves make it so difficult to coordinate. The cultural and attitudinal differences are quite pronounced and it would be chaotic.
And who would lead? I may be a tad biased but really there’s only one country to lead and that’s the UK. And that’s never going to happen to be honest.
If it’s run ‘by committee’ then we’d be overrun before everyone met😂
The difference with Europe and America is that they are a UNITED states. |  |
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| A European Army on 18:48 - Jan 22 with 974 views | Dr_Winston |
Absolutely not.
A European army is not required to deal with the Russian "threat". They can barely conquer a fifth of Ukraine. There is zero chance that they'll be remotely capable of taking on another country at the same time. This is not the Cold War.
NATO has done the job well enough for decades. If countries want to spend more to beef up their capabilities in the absence of the US then fine. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| A European Army on 18:50 - Jan 22 with 974 views | johnlangy |
| A European Army on 18:10 - Jan 22 by union_jack |
You said it yourself John, it’s a huge task. The disparateness of the European members and ourselves make it so difficult to coordinate. The cultural and attitudinal differences are quite pronounced and it would be chaotic.
And who would lead? I may be a tad biased but really there’s only one country to lead and that’s the UK. And that’s never going to happen to be honest.
If it’s run ‘by committee’ then we’d be overrun before everyone met😂
The difference with Europe and America is that they are a UNITED states. |
I completely agree uj. A huge task.
That's why I emphasised the point that whatever the cultural and attitudinal differences, or political or any other difference you care to mention, the problem facing them all is the same.
Imagine for a minute that the Ukraine war is settled and Russia ends up retaining most of the Donbas. Is everyone going to settle down believing that that's the end of the problem ? Or are we all going to be thinking who's next ? And if Putin goes again in a few years time and invades Latvia or Estonia what happens then ?
We'll be having the same conversation and will we all still be saying it can't be done (the European Army).
At what point will we say yes it can be done ? | | | |
| A European Army on 20:51 - Jan 22 with 919 views | union_jack |
| A European Army on 18:50 - Jan 22 by johnlangy |
I completely agree uj. A huge task.
That's why I emphasised the point that whatever the cultural and attitudinal differences, or political or any other difference you care to mention, the problem facing them all is the same.
Imagine for a minute that the Ukraine war is settled and Russia ends up retaining most of the Donbas. Is everyone going to settle down believing that that's the end of the problem ? Or are we all going to be thinking who's next ? And if Putin goes again in a few years time and invades Latvia or Estonia what happens then ?
We'll be having the same conversation and will we all still be saying it can't be done (the European Army).
At what point will we say yes it can be done ? |
When? At the point where cross border movement has got to a point where the cultural influences have been diluted I.e. probably never. | |
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| A European Army on 21:37 - Jan 22 with 884 views | scruffyjack |
Trump has just called out the European troops in Afghanistan. We were never near the frontline. This aberration has crossed the line before, but this is beyond the pale. My blood is boiling. | | | |
| A European Army on 01:27 - Jan 23 with 832 views | Robbie |
Illuminati is is in full swing and World domination mode , them at the top will rule soon .
That was in The Daily Express as a headline grabber mun .
The EU and all these coalitions of waffle are a side show , Don and Putin will brush them aside without a thought for peace in Ukraine .
China and North Korea will sit back and watch the The West implode without raising a weapon . | | | |
| A European Army on 11:11 - Jan 23 with 721 views | AnotherJohn |
My impression is that there are huge barriers to overcome before a European army would be feasible. We need better coordination of procurement, so that national resources complement rather than duplicate each other, and standardisation could be improved. There is also a need to plan a Mk 2 version of NATO in which the USA is not seen as the central player. Outside the NATO framework, the most pressing issue in my opinion is coordinating French and UK nuclear weapon targeting and seeking a financial contribution from other European countries in return for providing a "nuclear umbrella". I know this won't be popular, but we need to fill in gaps to have a credible tactical response to a one-off Russian first use of a tactical weapon, and also to have more strategic capability. We need to discuss getting together with the French regarding production and servicing, possibly even in respect of an alternative to US servicing of the Trident missiles. We already make and service the warheads here in the UK, and the French nuclear force is already independent of the USA (and NATO). The French already have am air-launched cruise missile and we should get together on a successor. | | | |
| A European Army on 12:00 - Jan 23 with 693 views | Gwyn737 |
| A European Army on 11:11 - Jan 23 by AnotherJohn |
My impression is that there are huge barriers to overcome before a European army would be feasible. We need better coordination of procurement, so that national resources complement rather than duplicate each other, and standardisation could be improved. There is also a need to plan a Mk 2 version of NATO in which the USA is not seen as the central player. Outside the NATO framework, the most pressing issue in my opinion is coordinating French and UK nuclear weapon targeting and seeking a financial contribution from other European countries in return for providing a "nuclear umbrella". I know this won't be popular, but we need to fill in gaps to have a credible tactical response to a one-off Russian first use of a tactical weapon, and also to have more strategic capability. We need to discuss getting together with the French regarding production and servicing, possibly even in respect of an alternative to US servicing of the Trident missiles. We already make and service the warheads here in the UK, and the French nuclear force is already independent of the USA (and NATO). The French already have am air-launched cruise missile and we should get together on a successor. |
I thank that would be a really good way forward.
The stumbling block with it is it would mean playing nicely with the French which is politically tricky with the current electorate. | | | |
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| A European Army on 18:08 - Jan 23 with 623 views | controversial_jack |
| A European Army on 18:48 - Jan 22 by Dr_Winston |
Absolutely not.
A European army is not required to deal with the Russian "threat". They can barely conquer a fifth of Ukraine. There is zero chance that they'll be remotely capable of taking on another country at the same time. This is not the Cold War.
NATO has done the job well enough for decades. If countries want to spend more to beef up their capabilities in the absence of the US then fine. |
It's not about taking land, it's about attrition. It's to totally destroy and degrade the Ukranian military so that it's no longer a threat. It's worked too. NATO would not stand a change against Russia.
They have almost 1 million men under arms including reserves.Their technology is excellent, their missiles and drones are frightening. Their losses of troops are down to single figures per day, not the thousands that Propaganda tells us, that would be unsustainable for any military. while the Ukranians are losing far more.Forget the bull about them using N korean troops and using prisoners. They have many volunteers still, and have no manpower or equipment shortages
The US and British military couldn't deal with the Taliban, The humble IED stopped us in our tracks literally. We have no chance against Russia at all | | | |
| A European Army on 21:42 - Jan 23 with 555 views | ncswan |
| A European Army on 18:08 - Jan 23 by controversial_jack |
It's not about taking land, it's about attrition. It's to totally destroy and degrade the Ukranian military so that it's no longer a threat. It's worked too. NATO would not stand a change against Russia.
They have almost 1 million men under arms including reserves.Their technology is excellent, their missiles and drones are frightening. Their losses of troops are down to single figures per day, not the thousands that Propaganda tells us, that would be unsustainable for any military. while the Ukranians are losing far more.Forget the bull about them using N korean troops and using prisoners. They have many volunteers still, and have no manpower or equipment shortages
The US and British military couldn't deal with the Taliban, The humble IED stopped us in our tracks literally. We have no chance against Russia at all |
"The US and British military couldn't deal with the Taliban" Well, Russia couldn't deal with them either.
Actually, Trump had a plan in place on how to deal with the Taliban but the plan wasn't followed through by Biden & his pitiful military and State Dept advisors. Biden ditched Trump's plan, announced to the world that the US would leave by a certain date (Aug 2021), then followed through with vacating Afghanistan.
And more disgustingly, Biden abandoned over $2Billion worth of military weaponry and equipment as well as giving up the very strategic and immensely important Bagram Air Base. In the confusion leading up to the US exit, eleven US service personnel were murdered by the Taliban, considered a huge stain on Biden's watch by a majority of American citizens.
Trump's plan was short-circuited by Biden's victory in the 2020 Presidential election. Trump's team was in the final stages of negotiating a peace deal with the Taliban, which included keeping Bagram Air Base as well as a mineral-rights deal. | | | |
| A European Army on 13:39 - Jan 24 with 425 views | Gwyn737 |
| A European Army on 21:42 - Jan 23 by ncswan |
"The US and British military couldn't deal with the Taliban" Well, Russia couldn't deal with them either.
Actually, Trump had a plan in place on how to deal with the Taliban but the plan wasn't followed through by Biden & his pitiful military and State Dept advisors. Biden ditched Trump's plan, announced to the world that the US would leave by a certain date (Aug 2021), then followed through with vacating Afghanistan.
And more disgustingly, Biden abandoned over $2Billion worth of military weaponry and equipment as well as giving up the very strategic and immensely important Bagram Air Base. In the confusion leading up to the US exit, eleven US service personnel were murdered by the Taliban, considered a huge stain on Biden's watch by a majority of American citizens.
Trump's plan was short-circuited by Biden's victory in the 2020 Presidential election. Trump's team was in the final stages of negotiating a peace deal with the Taliban, which included keeping Bagram Air Base as well as a mineral-rights deal. |
It’s amazing how he’s only managed to get a second hand peace prize. | | | |
| A European Army on 14:21 - Jan 24 with 401 views | scruffyjack |
| A European Army on 21:42 - Jan 23 by ncswan |
"The US and British military couldn't deal with the Taliban" Well, Russia couldn't deal with them either.
Actually, Trump had a plan in place on how to deal with the Taliban but the plan wasn't followed through by Biden & his pitiful military and State Dept advisors. Biden ditched Trump's plan, announced to the world that the US would leave by a certain date (Aug 2021), then followed through with vacating Afghanistan.
And more disgustingly, Biden abandoned over $2Billion worth of military weaponry and equipment as well as giving up the very strategic and immensely important Bagram Air Base. In the confusion leading up to the US exit, eleven US service personnel were murdered by the Taliban, considered a huge stain on Biden's watch by a majority of American citizens.
Trump's plan was short-circuited by Biden's victory in the 2020 Presidential election. Trump's team was in the final stages of negotiating a peace deal with the Taliban, which included keeping Bagram Air Base as well as a mineral-rights deal. |
Trump arranged the departure date after talks with the Taliban but not the Afghan government. A US government watchdog blamed both administration’s for the chaotic withdrawal.
Trump and his MAGA minions blamed Biden. | | | |
| A European Army on 12:42 - Jan 25 with 263 views | johnlangy |
Over the last few days the utter scumbag Trump has shown exactly why we should look to ourselves for our own security (the only thing I can think of that i'd give him credit for). He's no more to be trusted than Putin.
Zelensky's speech said it all. ' Europe, instead of becoming a truly Global power remains a fragmented kaleidoscope of small and medium powers instead of taking the lead in defending freedom worldwide'.
Friedrich Merz (German Chancellor) - 'Europe has got to be able to defend itself'.
Trump himself is saying the same thing regularly, that it's up to us to defend ourselves. What could be more obvious.
So however it works out, we all have to work together.
And to answer your point Gwyn, if anyone in the UK didn't want us to part of the alliance because they don't like the French then i'd say anyone who says that is a deranged fool.
On a slightly different note, have you heard about the 'rules' in setting up the Board of Peace ? The scumbag has set them as you'd expect. The rules say that the scumbag will be the Chairman of the board for as long as he wants, whether President or not. And when the scumbag decides to step down he will be the one who will decide who the replacement Chairman is.
And the scumbag says that if anyone comes forward saying they want to be a member they'll have to pay 1 billion dollars. | | | |
| A European Army on 16:08 - Jan 25 with 218 views | felixstowe_jack |
Russia has managed to advance an average of 30 miles into Ukrainian in the 3 years since they invaded. They have also lost 40% of the land they captured in the first months of their invasion.
They have lost between 250, 000 and 500,000 military personnel with twice as many injured.
Their invasion has now lasted longer than it took the USSR to reach Berlin in WW2. | |
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| A European Army on 13:15 - Jan 26 with 142 views | controversial_jack |
| A European Army on 16:08 - Jan 25 by felixstowe_jack |
Russia has managed to advance an average of 30 miles into Ukrainian in the 3 years since they invaded. They have also lost 40% of the land they captured in the first months of their invasion.
They have lost between 250, 000 and 500,000 military personnel with twice as many injured.
Their invasion has now lasted longer than it took the USSR to reach Berlin in WW2. |
I stated earlier, that's it's not a land grab, it's about degrading the Ukrainian military, which has bee a success.
Their losses are nowhere near that. A lot yes, this is a large and brutal encounter, something that NATO countries have never faced. Russian losses are currently down to single figures daily with Ukrainian ones being much higher.
There will be no Ukrainian military of any worth after this is over, which was exactly the plan [Post edited 26 Jan 13:17]
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