| Ref abuse 18:14 - Feb 5 with 3457 views | Heisenberg |
Why can’t they do something about the shouting in the refs faces and surrounding him. Watching Spurs v Man C it’s a complete joke. Just start sending a few off and it will be sorted. |  |
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| Ref abuse on 18:19 - Feb 5 with 2900 views | grumpy |
Watch the Rugby games,the ref rules. |  | | |
| Ref abuse on 18:20 - Feb 5 with 2898 views | 1885_SFC |
I'm sure our resident expert professional ref will be along to answer that within the next hour or two. |  |
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| Ref abuse on 18:28 - Feb 5 with 2863 views | saint901 |
This could be stopped easily.
All clubs are told that more than one player within three feet of the ref once a decision is made, is unacceptable.
The incidences of this happening to be reviewed and determined by the officials post match.
If deemed to have happened, the club is warned and a demerit point awarded for each incidence.
Collect 10 demerit points in any five game sequence and that's a deduction of a point.
Collect 15 and it's two points.
Collect 20 or more and it's three points.
This abuse will end overnght. |  | | |
| Ref abuse on 19:02 - Feb 5 with 2821 views | sledger |
the referees have all the power they need,anyone showing dissent in there face give them a card,players will soon learn to stay away and playing the correct amount of overtime will also stop all the gamesmanship thats going on,personally it all makes me want to puke | | | |
| Ref abuse on 19:14 - Feb 5 with 2802 views | felly1 |
I would stop the endless slow mo replays which give pundits and fans alike the chance to analyse every contentious decision.
Complete madness, the refs and linos have no chance and this just encourages disrespect.
Of course they make mistakes but we need to man up, accept the decision and move on with the game. | | | |
| Ref abuse on 20:03 - Feb 5 with 2749 views | Ron11 |
B Fernandes would be sent off every week, the gobby cheating tw*t | | | |
| Ref abuse on 20:15 - Feb 5 with 2739 views | Messysaints |
They do card and send players off for it, it just depends on the club the offender players play for. | | | |
| Ref abuse on 20:28 - Feb 5 with 2697 views | SFC_Referee |
Yeah but unfortunately they’re told not to, as it’s just complete nonsense and pathetic that the FA/Prem don’t do anything about it all which leads to soo many more issues at grassroots levels, but as the prems all about entertainment, money, sponsors etc… they just want cards shown for things actually to do with the game, like trips, pushes, DOGSO’s etc, and not things like dissent or foul and abusive language, even though it says they would be doing that in the LOTG |  |
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| Ref abuse on 20:38 - Feb 5 with 2682 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 18:20 - Feb 5 by 1885_SFC |
I'm sure our resident expert professional ref will be along to answer that within the next hour or two. |
Nah unfortunately even I’m not that quick, 28 minutes too late!
But yeah well more should be done around it all and the use of sin-bins and having rules and things similar to how rugby does it. As things have to change otherwise it’s only gonna get worse, leading to even more issues around it all at lower levels.
As even today I had a few games, and just before my second one, there was already a game on the pitch my one was gonna be taking place, and some of the players were shouting to the ref “are you f*cking blind”, “what the f*ck are you watching ref”, “your a f*cking joke ref!”, as well as even some of the coaches getting involved in it all and having a shout or two of similar remarks towards him. Yet after all of this, what does the ref do… completely nothing! Meaning that he continued to get more and more dissent and you could see he was loosing control of the game, which wasn’t good for anyone.
As him doing that just means that all those players and coaches think they can get away with it all as they see all the major players do it, as well as getting away with doing it at their games, which only makes it harder for the refs doing those teams next weekend, which can lead to soo many quitting because of the levels of abuse they get.
Which is why more refs need to do stuff about it and stand up for themselves!
As in my game I had to sin bin a lad who I’d already warned, and said quite clearly after showing him it that “I’m a ref and I’m here to do my job and officiate this game, not take abuse off of people, which is why you’ll find yourself off of the pitch if you do that”
Yet one good thing to hear was quite a few spectators actually applaud and shout “spot on ref” after I said that, which thankfully does show that it’s not everyone who does it, and how it can and should change!
As it’s all this abuse/dissent officials get from players, coaches, pundits, parents etc… going on about things they know very little of and saying how “poor” they are, lead to soo many quitting, and all those refs that quit it leads to less competition for higher leagues. And that leads to less quality in them, meaning that the general quality of most refs only gets worse, and the loop begins all over again! [Post edited 5 Feb 2023 20:42]
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| Ref abuse on 20:45 - Feb 5 with 2669 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 18:28 - Feb 5 by saint901 |
This could be stopped easily.
All clubs are told that more than one player within three feet of the ref once a decision is made, is unacceptable.
The incidences of this happening to be reviewed and determined by the officials post match.
If deemed to have happened, the club is warned and a demerit point awarded for each incidence.
Collect 10 demerit points in any five game sequence and that's a deduction of a point.
Collect 15 and it's two points.
Collect 20 or more and it's three points.
This abuse will end overnght. |
Not a bad shout, although rather than just more than one it should be something like the captain or something, and how it’s only when it’s around decisions that’s it’s in play. Although I do feel as if players have the right to ask questions to officials over why they did/didn’t do… but it’s just when those questions become abusive and those questions become consistent pestering and pressurisation that we get the issues.
But I like the abuse for loosing points rules as it would certainly end it all, but unfortunately I do struggle to see the FA/prem actually doing anything about things like this, as there’s a reason why nothing been done yet even though it’s been going on for ages now… | |
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| Ref abuse on 20:48 - Feb 5 with 2666 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 19:02 - Feb 5 by sledger |
the referees have all the power they need,anyone showing dissent in there face give them a card,players will soon learn to stay away and playing the correct amount of overtime will also stop all the gamesmanship thats going on,personally it all makes me want to puke |
They don’t have the power though, as it’s no coincidence that NO prem refs ever give out straight reds or second yellows for dissent or things like that, as they’re told not to, which I know from inside info, but even before I had it confirmed could blatantly see it for how often players get away with it.
As the ones with the power are all the big leagues and competitions that hire the refs and could quite easily drop them if they don’t obey the “guidelines” the refs are told to follow, | |
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| Ref abuse on 20:49 - Feb 5 with 2663 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 20:15 - Feb 5 by Messysaints |
They do card and send players off for it, it just depends on the club the offender players play for. |
Maybe for other things, but dissent then no, as it just soo very rarely happens and is never anything major being a second yellow or straight red with an indirect free kick being awarded due to it occurring in open play. | |
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| Ref abuse on 22:10 - Feb 5 with 2621 views | Messysaints |
| Ref abuse on 20:49 - Feb 5 by SFC_Referee |
Maybe for other things, but dissent then no, as it just soo very rarely happens and is never anything major being a second yellow or straight red with an indirect free kick being awarded due to it occurring in open play. |
uhh.. Yellow cards are given if a ref feels like it for dissent in the EPL, and in most other leagues ( MLS is very consistant in apply this rule ), its quite common apart from Spain, another league that selectively applys that rule, i believe Lyanco was given one just a few games ago for dissent. As i said, they do but they are selective about what teams recieve them, bigger the club, more likely you are to get away with it, Even more so when your club is flavour of the month / new hot property / country funded clubs, and lets not mention United who i dont think ( Most likely 100 % wrong here) never seem to get one even though Bruno Fernandez is the biggest big gob in the league.
EPL Football is the biggest selective pile of crap ever, its more inconsistent than F1, and i didnt think that was possible. | | | |
| Ref abuse on 22:23 - Feb 5 with 2603 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 22:10 - Feb 5 by Messysaints |
uhh.. Yellow cards are given if a ref feels like it for dissent in the EPL, and in most other leagues ( MLS is very consistant in apply this rule ), its quite common apart from Spain, another league that selectively applys that rule, i believe Lyanco was given one just a few games ago for dissent. As i said, they do but they are selective about what teams recieve them, bigger the club, more likely you are to get away with it, Even more so when your club is flavour of the month / new hot property / country funded clubs, and lets not mention United who i dont think ( Most likely 100 % wrong here) never seem to get one even though Bruno Fernandez is the biggest big gob in the league.
EPL Football is the biggest selective pile of crap ever, its more inconsistent than F1, and i didnt think that was possible. |
No it’s got nothing to do with the size of the clubs, as that man city keeper, ederson got a yellow today, as it happens to everyone, as all managers get cautionings all the time for it and it’s the same for players, as I’m sure if you look st the stats you’ll see that they’ll be fairly spread out a level across most clubs. And yeah many players do get away with it soo often like Fernandez, but that’s simply because they’re intelligent enough to know when to stop so that they don’t get cautioned, so that they can push it as far as they can without having to go in the book, and do it week in, week out.
But like I previously said, they’re only ever yellow, never straight red cards or a second yellow, as the refs are informed (and this I know for a fact) to basically suck it all up and only ever produce them when ether it’s ridiculously personal or if it’s a way to keep control of the game a bit better. But even then due to all the money and issues that would somehow arise from it all, they’re also told to only do it when it’s not gonna cause controversy, hence why there’s never any indirect free kicks awarded if it’s in open play, or it never results in someone getting sent off. Which is exactly why I can’t even remember the last time a player was given a second yellow/straight red for dissent based reasons, in the prem, as it just never happens.
But it’s not just the prem, but also any other one of the 5 major leagues, or other contests that have major TV deals and all those major sponsors etc, that need all that money to keep it going etc, which is why they don’t want refs to do what they should do, and caution or send off more players for dissent. As it would ruin more of the games for all those watching half way around the world and cause more controversy in the games. [Post edited 5 Feb 2023 22:24]
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| Ref abuse on 22:28 - Feb 5 with 2585 views | Messysaints |
| Ref abuse on 22:23 - Feb 5 by SFC_Referee |
No it’s got nothing to do with the size of the clubs, as that man city keeper, ederson got a yellow today, as it happens to everyone, as all managers get cautionings all the time for it and it’s the same for players, as I’m sure if you look st the stats you’ll see that they’ll be fairly spread out a level across most clubs. And yeah many players do get away with it soo often like Fernandez, but that’s simply because they’re intelligent enough to know when to stop so that they don’t get cautioned, so that they can push it as far as they can without having to go in the book, and do it week in, week out.
But like I previously said, they’re only ever yellow, never straight red cards or a second yellow, as the refs are informed (and this I know for a fact) to basically suck it all up and only ever produce them when ether it’s ridiculously personal or if it’s a way to keep control of the game a bit better. But even then due to all the money and issues that would somehow arise from it all, they’re also told to only do it when it’s not gonna cause controversy, hence why there’s never any indirect free kicks awarded if it’s in open play, or it never results in someone getting sent off. Which is exactly why I can’t even remember the last time a player was given a second yellow/straight red for dissent based reasons, in the prem, as it just never happens.
But it’s not just the prem, but also any other one of the 5 major leagues, or other contests that have major TV deals and all those major sponsors etc, that need all that money to keep it going etc, which is why they don’t want refs to do what they should do, and caution or send off more players for dissent. As it would ruin more of the games for all those watching half way around the world and cause more controversy in the games. [Post edited 5 Feb 2023 22:24]
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But like I previously said, they’re only ever yellow, never straight red cards or a second yellow,
lol
If you say so.
You sure you ref outside grassroots?
[Post edited 5 Feb 2023 22:30]
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| Ref abuse on 22:33 - Feb 5 with 2573 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 22:28 - Feb 5 by Messysaints |
But like I previously said, they’re only ever yellow, never straight red cards or a second yellow,
lol
If you say so.
You sure you ref outside grassroots?
[Post edited 5 Feb 2023 22:30]
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Oh I didn’t know that Shrewsbury v Arrington is one of the 5 major leagues or some other contest that’s watched all across the world with ridiculous tv and sponsor deals!
Still find me a recent one of those and I’d be impressed!
And yeah I do officiate a fairly high standard, which is exactly why I’m not the one outta my depth on this thread, but hey I’ve gotta deal with people like that most weekends!
[Post edited 5 Feb 2023 22:36]
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| Ref abuse on 22:45 - Feb 5 with 2552 views | Messysaints |
you didnt say that, you said, and i quote " But it’s not just the prem, but also any other one of the 5 major leagues, or other contests that have major TV deals and all those major sponsors etc,"
"or other contests that have major TV deals and all those major sponsors etc "<<< You are aware its watched in 60 + countrys around the globe right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EFL_Cup_broadcasters#Broadcasters [Post edited 5 Feb 2023 22:46]
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| Ref abuse on 22:56 - Feb 5 with 2536 views | Messysaints |
| Ref abuse on 22:33 - Feb 5 by SFC_Referee |
Oh I didn’t know that Shrewsbury v Arrington is one of the 5 major leagues or some other contest that’s watched all across the world with ridiculous tv and sponsor deals!
Still find me a recent one of those and I’d be impressed!
And yeah I do officiate a fairly high standard, which is exactly why I’m not the one outta my depth on this thread, but hey I’ve gotta deal with people like that most weekends!
[Post edited 5 Feb 2023 22:36]
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£ And yeah I do officiate a fairly high standard, which is exactly why I’m not the one outta my depth on this thread, but hey I’ve gotta deal with people like that most weekends!"
Your the one saying things and then being shown it happens, If it hurts your professional opinion, then your not so professional, also sly digs insulting me, doesnt help your cause, Next your going to tell me ill be wrong for insulting your professional opinion that no one gets sent off for dissent yet you can do a quick google and find tons of vids of that exact thing....
So obviously you are not at a faily high standard after all. | | | |
| Ref abuse on 22:59 - Feb 5 with 2526 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 22:45 - Feb 5 by Messysaints |
you didnt say that, you said, and i quote " But it’s not just the prem, but also any other one of the 5 major leagues, or other contests that have major TV deals and all those major sponsors etc,"
"or other contests that have major TV deals and all those major sponsors etc "<<< You are aware its watched in 60 + countrys around the globe right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EFL_Cup_broadcasters#Broadcasters [Post edited 5 Feb 2023 22:46]
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You do know what the 5 major leagues are right? You know the Bundesliga, LaLiga, Serie A, Ligue 1 and prem. with the other major contests being the likes of the Europa league, champions league, euros, copa America, World Cup etc…
As they’re the contests with the major TV/sponsors deals, and when you compare what the sponsor and tv deals are for that to what the likes of the EFL get, let alone league 1, it’s basically nothing!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue
As like the link shows it’s 11th for leagues for revenue, and when you add in all the international tournaments won’t even be in the top 20, and I do genuinely wonder if it would make the top 30!
So yes it may be watched by 60 countries across the world, but that’s not for how major those deals are, and even then I’m sure that almost all those other competitions are watched in more counties than the championship, which is why it’s soo low for revenue.
But still going back to the point, you don’t ever really see any major disciplinary action for dissent. As yeah I’m sure if you really looked hard you’d maybe find one or two within the last 5 or so years for those major contests, but the fact is that it’s just soo rare it basically never happens, as it should be well more than just once every 2/3 years for how much occurs on most games in these contests. | |
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| Ref abuse on 23:09 - Feb 5 with 2521 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 22:56 - Feb 5 by Messysaints |
£ And yeah I do officiate a fairly high standard, which is exactly why I’m not the one outta my depth on this thread, but hey I’ve gotta deal with people like that most weekends!"
Your the one saying things and then being shown it happens, If it hurts your professional opinion, then your not so professional, also sly digs insulting me, doesnt help your cause, Next your going to tell me ill be wrong for insulting your professional opinion that no one gets sent off for dissent yet you can do a quick google and find tons of vids of that exact thing....
So obviously you are not at a faily high standard after all. |
I’m still yet to see any clips from the 5 major leagues or other major contests of an active player (as yeah many players in the bench have) getting a second yellow/straight red for dissent… but I guess if there’s tons of them then you should be able to easily show me them. As I can’t seem to find any, although I could find this…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7346933/Football-news-SEVEN-y
So that’s now what, 10/11 years since the last red for dissent was shown in the prem…
As I stand by what I previously said, you don’t get them in the major contests. As if your talking about any old contest, well I’ve sent off players in the non leagues before for dissent based reasons, and so have other refs I know, it’s just we’re not not told not to do so, due to it affecting TV/sponsor deals and entertainment values, so I’m sure there’s loads out there for any old league, but basically none will be in those major contests, because I’ve had Prem refs/AR’s literally tell me face to face that they’re told not to for the reasons that I’ve mentioned before. And that’s a fact that nobody can argue with as I’ve been told it, and it’s pretty clearly true by what those articles and what threads like this show.
But look fella you show me all these videos then from these major contests and as I’ve said previously, I’d be impressed! But as that article shows, you won’t be able to as it pretty much never happens and I’m sure they will have been a max or 1 or 2 over the last decade or so for those other major contests as well [Post edited 5 Feb 2023 23:18]
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| Ref abuse on 23:19 - Feb 5 with 2500 views | Messysaints |
| Ref abuse on 22:59 - Feb 5 by SFC_Referee |
You do know what the 5 major leagues are right? You know the Bundesliga, LaLiga, Serie A, Ligue 1 and prem. with the other major contests being the likes of the Europa league, champions league, euros, copa America, World Cup etc…
As they’re the contests with the major TV/sponsors deals, and when you compare what the sponsor and tv deals are for that to what the likes of the EFL get, let alone league 1, it’s basically nothing!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue
As like the link shows it’s 11th for leagues for revenue, and when you add in all the international tournaments won’t even be in the top 20, and I do genuinely wonder if it would make the top 30!
So yes it may be watched by 60 countries across the world, but that’s not for how major those deals are, and even then I’m sure that almost all those other competitions are watched in more counties than the championship, which is why it’s soo low for revenue.
But still going back to the point, you don’t ever really see any major disciplinary action for dissent. As yeah I’m sure if you really looked hard you’d maybe find one or two within the last 5 or so years for those major contests, but the fact is that it’s just soo rare it basically never happens, as it should be well more than just once every 2/3 years for how much occurs on most games in these contests. |
LOL its not on that page.
Might have some thing to do with the carabao cup being a cup, not a league, but what do i know, im just a fan, obviously no where near your level of comprehension.
over 4 million people tune in to watch the Carabao cup final game.
Spanish copa final only had 2.2 million. ill let you decide which one was watched by more. P.S Copa is only watched in only 37 countrys.....
You stick by your claim a bookable offense cant get you sent off, with your expert, professional, high stadards reffing, that cant read, makes up lies, and down plays English cups, doesnt knwo the difference between a leageu and a cup, but claims some moral hgih ground because he is apparently a high stadard ref LOL
LOL [Post edited 5 Feb 2023 23:33]
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| Ref abuse on 23:50 - Feb 5 with 2481 views | Messysaints |
| Ref abuse on 23:09 - Feb 5 by SFC_Referee |
I’m still yet to see any clips from the 5 major leagues or other major contests of an active player (as yeah many players in the bench have) getting a second yellow/straight red for dissent… but I guess if there’s tons of them then you should be able to easily show me them. As I can’t seem to find any, although I could find this…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7346933/Football-news-SEVEN-y
So that’s now what, 10/11 years since the last red for dissent was shown in the prem…
As I stand by what I previously said, you don’t get them in the major contests. As if your talking about any old contest, well I’ve sent off players in the non leagues before for dissent based reasons, and so have other refs I know, it’s just we’re not not told not to do so, due to it affecting TV/sponsor deals and entertainment values, so I’m sure there’s loads out there for any old league, but basically none will be in those major contests, because I’ve had Prem refs/AR’s literally tell me face to face that they’re told not to for the reasons that I’ve mentioned before. And that’s a fact that nobody can argue with as I’ve been told it, and it’s pretty clearly true by what those articles and what threads like this show.
But look fella you show me all these videos then from these major contests and as I’ve said previously, I’d be impressed! But as that article shows, you won’t be able to as it pretty much never happens and I’m sure they will have been a max or 1 or 2 over the last decade or so for those other major contests as well [Post edited 5 Feb 2023 23:18]
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So showing me an article in which a player gets a streight red card for dissent ( In the EPL too i might add ), proves you are right that players dont get sent off for dissent LOL.. Its a bookabel offense, because most players are not stupid enough to get booked twice for it doesnt mean it cant be done or in Cattermoles case a streight red.
Dissent, by the laws of the game is a bookable offense, End of, if you can be booked for it once you can be booked twice, so you can be sent off for it, End off, if you want to keep arguing that becuase your a professional, expert ref, at a fairly high standard, Then keep doing it.
I am sure most will agree with me. | | | |
| Ref abuse on 00:23 - Feb 6 with 2457 views | SFC_Referee |
| Ref abuse on 23:50 - Feb 5 by Messysaints |
So showing me an article in which a player gets a streight red card for dissent ( In the EPL too i might add ), proves you are right that players dont get sent off for dissent LOL.. Its a bookabel offense, because most players are not stupid enough to get booked twice for it doesnt mean it cant be done or in Cattermoles case a streight red.
Dissent, by the laws of the game is a bookable offense, End of, if you can be booked for it once you can be booked twice, so you can be sent off for it, End off, if you want to keep arguing that becuase your a professional, expert ref, at a fairly high standard, Then keep doing it.
I am sure most will agree with me. |
You really do struggle to read now don’t you?
As you go on about the lower leagues, what the LOTG state, some video from a non major league game etc… but it has nothing to do with what I’ve said.
As I’ve never once said it’s against the LOTG to get a booking for dissent, but simply that it so rarely occurs when resulting in a red or anything major, in the major leagues or contests, because of what they’re TOLD TO DO.
As according to the LOTG keepers can’t handle the ball for more than 6 seconds, players should be sent off for just swearing in general, and all forms of dissent should be an automatic cautioning or sending off. But as we all know, that’s not the case for any of them, as they’re all not kept to the letter of the law whatsoever.
It’s just with the dissent one, it’s kept to the letter of the law even less because of what refs are informed to do, and that’s there for everyone to see, as yes it’s been 11 years now since a straight red for dissent, but I’d also be fairly certain it’s also been that long since someone get a second cautioning for dissent ether. And that is simply because it soo very rarely happens, and doesn’t occur anywhere near the levels it should be, which again is something that nobody who watches football can deny.
And that’s exactly why it’s been 11 years since a straight red was shown in the prem for dissent (although technically it would’ve been for foul and abusive language), and probably a simulat length of time for someone being sent off for getting a second cautioning for dissent, because it’s what they’re told to do and if they don’t do could result in the getting demoted outta the top leagues/contests.
As you’ve just agreed that straight reds are never shown in these major competitions, and it’s also fairly clear that second yellows are never shown for dissent ether, so what is there left to discuss…
As you’ve basically just agreed that in the prem or other major leagues you never get it, which is what I’ve been saying the whole time and what needs to change. But look anyway I’ve got nothing more to say as I’ve literally been told this by the people we're discussing so am done with this conversation now.
And with regards to the major leagues, look nobody calls the championship one, and really no sane fan would seriously say that the championships bigger than the Copa America or some of the other competitions I listed before. But anyway I cba with all of that anymore [Post edited 6 Feb 2023 0:52]
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| Ref abuse on 00:32 - Feb 6 with 2445 views | SFC_Referee |
But anyway now all that nonsense is over, yeah there should be a lot more cautionings for dissent, and even a few yellows for when those players get far too up in the refs face and say some things that are lucky to be rarely caught on the audio’s | |
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| Ref abuse on 07:54 - Feb 6 with 2310 views | Messysaints |
| Ref abuse on 00:32 - Feb 6 by SFC_Referee |
But anyway now all that nonsense is over, yeah there should be a lot more cautionings for dissent, and even a few yellows for when those players get far too up in the refs face and say some things that are lucky to be rarely caught on the audio’s |
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/whataboutery | | | |
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