| The markets know something is looming 17:25 - Nov 2 with 1909 views | saint68 |
Folow the money is a well used and understood term.
So earlier this week countless government bodies across the world requested updates and information from citizens across the world in regards to covid-19 vaccines..the MHRA was one of those bodies...
Subsequently the main vaccine providers shares have crashed heavily..Moderna by $20 billion...
Maybe it's time to connect the dots and finally accept that those who were vocal in projecting objections about these vaccines weren't mad conspiracists but just slightly worried and with good reason.
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| The markets know something is looming on 17:41 - Nov 2 with 1350 views | saint901 |
Moderna share price took a modest downturn because they have delayed an application for its vaccine to be used in teenagers.
There are instances (extremely rare) of other vaccines having side effects especially in young men although the FDA has approved the use of them.
Moderna has decided to wait until the FDA has time to review its vaccine in Janaury, thus missing out on two months of prospective sales.
Further, Merck has announced that its anti viral pill (a far more accessible treatment for many) reduces hospitalisations by 50% and if this can be made more effective, then ALL vaccine makers who rely upon injection to deliver their products, will suffer because health authorities will go for the easy option, i.e. the pills delivered via GPs.
https://www.investors.com/news/technology/mrna-stock-buy-now/ | | | |
| The markets know something is looming on 17:44 - Nov 2 with 1335 views | saint68 |
| The markets know something is looming on 17:41 - Nov 2 by saint901 |
Moderna share price took a modest downturn because they have delayed an application for its vaccine to be used in teenagers.
There are instances (extremely rare) of other vaccines having side effects especially in young men although the FDA has approved the use of them.
Moderna has decided to wait until the FDA has time to review its vaccine in Janaury, thus missing out on two months of prospective sales.
Further, Merck has announced that its anti viral pill (a far more accessible treatment for many) reduces hospitalisations by 50% and if this can be made more effective, then ALL vaccine makers who rely upon injection to deliver their products, will suffer because health authorities will go for the easy option, i.e. the pills delivered via GPs.
https://www.investors.com/news/technology/mrna-stock-buy-now/ |
It's not just moderna though is it...the markets are privvy to greater and fresher information than the common man..they are bailing out before the true figures of harm from these vaccines become common knowledge...the timing indicates that clearly. | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 17:56 - Nov 2 with 1312 views | dirk_doone |
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| The markets know something is looming on 18:00 - Nov 2 with 1302 views | saint901 |
Who is "bailing out"?
Investors buy stocks that they think will rise or pay divs. If the company's sales are falling because they have delayed applications or better treatments are coming online, the investors will be switching to them. So all those with injectible drugs suffer because a pill is available. Simple stuff and no hidden agendas.
Even if one of the APPROVED vaccines was found to have instances of harm (and we know that in a vanishingly small number of cases this happens) will the compensation they might - eventually - be required to pay themselves (and not reclaim from Gov't) harm their share price?
No.
This is simple economics but something that I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will jump on as "evidence". It's not. | | | |
| The markets know something is looming on 18:02 - Nov 2 with 1296 views | saint68 |
| The markets know something is looming on 18:00 - Nov 2 by saint901 |
Who is "bailing out"?
Investors buy stocks that they think will rise or pay divs. If the company's sales are falling because they have delayed applications or better treatments are coming online, the investors will be switching to them. So all those with injectible drugs suffer because a pill is available. Simple stuff and no hidden agendas.
Even if one of the APPROVED vaccines was found to have instances of harm (and we know that in a vanishingly small number of cases this happens) will the compensation they might - eventually - be required to pay themselves (and not reclaim from Gov't) harm their share price?
No.
This is simple economics but something that I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will jump on as "evidence". It's not. |
That's your assumption..and that is all it is. | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 18:13 - Nov 2 with 1286 views | saint901 |
No - I'm following the money.
Making assumptions that investors - usually the common man or at least the common man advised by people who follow the money every day of the week - are bailing out of a multi billion dollar company because of some potential, far in the future, minor claims, is not following the money. | | | |
| The markets know something is looming on 18:16 - Nov 2 with 1282 views | saint68 |
| The markets know something is looming on 18:13 - Nov 2 by saint901 |
No - I'm following the money.
Making assumptions that investors - usually the common man or at least the common man advised by people who follow the money every day of the week - are bailing out of a multi billion dollar company because of some potential, far in the future, minor claims, is not following the money. |
Ooohh get you sarky..you made a statement I refuted it..get over it.
Unless of course you think you're Bobby Axelrod 😂🤣
Then if so what's your hot tip 901 | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 18:19 - Nov 2 with 1277 views | saint22 |
| The markets know something is looming on 18:16 - Nov 2 by saint68 |
Ooohh get you sarky..you made a statement I refuted it..get over it.
Unless of course you think you're Bobby Axelrod 😂🤣
Then if so what's your hot tip 901 |
you are delusional generally aren't you? | | | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 18:22 - Nov 2 with 1275 views | saint68 |
| The markets know something is looming on 18:19 - Nov 2 by saint22 |
you are delusional generally aren't you? |
I'm actually right 22..you will see bud.but by being right it sadly means many will have suffered for no reason whatsoever.
Nothing at all right in that. | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 22:48 - Nov 2 with 1144 views | DorsetIan |
| The markets know something is looming on 18:22 - Nov 2 by saint68 |
I'm actually right 22..you will see bud.but by being right it sadly means many will have suffered for no reason whatsoever.
Nothing at all right in that. |
You've been tucked up a treat by 901.
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself on here on a daily basis? | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 06:56 - Nov 3 with 1067 views | saint68 |
| The markets know something is looming on 22:48 - Nov 2 by DorsetIan |
You've been tucked up a treat by 901.
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself on here on a daily basis? |
Not at all Ian, 901 suggests the money was drained and spent on the Merck pill...that simply doesn't add up..the reality is the US government ceased using two vaccines recently on safety grounds..then a worldwide call out for vaccine side effects was issued on Monday...vaccine providers have seen massive losses across the board..but simple Ian got a rod on because he thought 901 was on the money .
Tucked up..yes Ian seems you have been. [Post edited 3 Nov 2021 7:26]
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| The markets know something is looming on 07:56 - Nov 3 with 1011 views | dwayne_dibley |
| The markets know something is looming on 17:41 - Nov 2 by saint901 |
Moderna share price took a modest downturn because they have delayed an application for its vaccine to be used in teenagers.
There are instances (extremely rare) of other vaccines having side effects especially in young men although the FDA has approved the use of them.
Moderna has decided to wait until the FDA has time to review its vaccine in Janaury, thus missing out on two months of prospective sales.
Further, Merck has announced that its anti viral pill (a far more accessible treatment for many) reduces hospitalisations by 50% and if this can be made more effective, then ALL vaccine makers who rely upon injection to deliver their products, will suffer because health authorities will go for the easy option, i.e. the pills delivered via GPs.
https://www.investors.com/news/technology/mrna-stock-buy-now/ |
if you are relying on GPs then you are screwed |  |
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| The markets know something is looming on 08:08 - Nov 3 with 1003 views | kernow |
| The markets know something is looming on 07:56 - Nov 3 by dwayne_dibley |
if you are relying on GPs then you are screwed |
"You have reached your destination"
A cul de sac. | | | |
| The markets know something is looming on 08:27 - Nov 3 with 988 views | saint901 |
First I have not and do not think that the money is drained by the Merck pill. The Merck treatment is in pill form and if approved, it is easier to administer and more acceptable for many people. If approved, it will take business away from the vaccines. That was the point in the link I posted.
Second, with vaccine programmes in the west at least starting to reach saturation point (high 80%) then the population remaining unvaccinated and therefore potential customers for vaccines, falls. This is perhaps a minor reason why some companies are looking for their treatment to be approved for teenagers. (Personally I think that there are sound reasons to vaccinate teenagers but it should be a choice.)
Third, where is the evidence that the US has stopped using two vaccines over health concerns? Do you have a link to any reputable source (not some far right QAnon adherent) which shows certain vaccines being withdrawn over safety concerns? Please post it.
The US vaccine rates have largely stalled because of Republican politics, especially in the Southern states.
Lastly, let's assume that the Moderna vaccine was wildly unsafe and was producing adverse effects in 10 times the number of people most medical studies to date have seen. That would be around 10 per million. In the US, if EVERY person was vaccinated and we were are 10/million, that's around 3,500 people with potential health issues. The average settlement for loss of life caused by error or mistake is around $1m. So on these values we're looking at $3.5bn.
Given that the vaccines are FDA approved, the US Gov't would be liable for most of that. The Moderna's and other vaccines producers might be liable for some but not all.
That money is a drop in the ocean and is not going to impact the share price.
Further, Moderna has just one active product on the market. The COVID vaccine. With saturation looming, new and better products becoming available, politics (and conspiracy theory) reducing the pool of candidates, why would investors not see that the company is heading for leaner times which will impact future earnings?
You also say that other pharma's stocks have fallen. I see no evidence of that. Do you have proof that these falls are anything more than tracking the pharma markets? If so, then the above reasons will have a part to play.
I'm not saying that the Moderna vaccine is 100% safe - no medicine is that - nor that people should be forced to be vaccinated. I am saying that linking logically explained events and not conflating unrelated events is better than wild speculation. | | | |
| The markets know something is looming on 09:57 - Nov 3 with 947 views | dwayne_dibley |
| The markets know something is looming on 08:08 - Nov 3 by kernow |
"You have reached your destination"
A cul de sac. |
I love it when you talk French to me  | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 12:36 - Nov 3 with 891 views | Sadoldgit |
| The markets know something is looming on 09:57 - Nov 3 by dwayne_dibley |
I love it when you talk French to me |
I love it when people with agendas and no knowledge get owned by those who know what they are talking about. |  | | |
| The markets know something is looming on 13:25 - Nov 3 with 857 views | DorsetIan |
| The markets know something is looming on 06:56 - Nov 3 by saint68 |
Not at all Ian, 901 suggests the money was drained and spent on the Merck pill...that simply doesn't add up..the reality is the US government ceased using two vaccines recently on safety grounds..then a worldwide call out for vaccine side effects was issued on Monday...vaccine providers have seen massive losses across the board..but simple Ian got a rod on because he thought 901 was on the money .
Tucked up..yes Ian seems you have been. [Post edited 3 Nov 2021 7:26]
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It helps if you have a clue what you're talking about. I see he's done you again.
I'd stop digging if I were you. | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 15:12 - Nov 3 with 814 views | saint68 |
| The markets know something is looming on 08:27 - Nov 3 by saint901 |
First I have not and do not think that the money is drained by the Merck pill. The Merck treatment is in pill form and if approved, it is easier to administer and more acceptable for many people. If approved, it will take business away from the vaccines. That was the point in the link I posted.
Second, with vaccine programmes in the west at least starting to reach saturation point (high 80%) then the population remaining unvaccinated and therefore potential customers for vaccines, falls. This is perhaps a minor reason why some companies are looking for their treatment to be approved for teenagers. (Personally I think that there are sound reasons to vaccinate teenagers but it should be a choice.)
Third, where is the evidence that the US has stopped using two vaccines over health concerns? Do you have a link to any reputable source (not some far right QAnon adherent) which shows certain vaccines being withdrawn over safety concerns? Please post it.
The US vaccine rates have largely stalled because of Republican politics, especially in the Southern states.
Lastly, let's assume that the Moderna vaccine was wildly unsafe and was producing adverse effects in 10 times the number of people most medical studies to date have seen. That would be around 10 per million. In the US, if EVERY person was vaccinated and we were are 10/million, that's around 3,500 people with potential health issues. The average settlement for loss of life caused by error or mistake is around $1m. So on these values we're looking at $3.5bn.
Given that the vaccines are FDA approved, the US Gov't would be liable for most of that. The Moderna's and other vaccines producers might be liable for some but not all.
That money is a drop in the ocean and is not going to impact the share price.
Further, Moderna has just one active product on the market. The COVID vaccine. With saturation looming, new and better products becoming available, politics (and conspiracy theory) reducing the pool of candidates, why would investors not see that the company is heading for leaner times which will impact future earnings?
You also say that other pharma's stocks have fallen. I see no evidence of that. Do you have proof that these falls are anything more than tracking the pharma markets? If so, then the above reasons will have a part to play.
I'm not saying that the Moderna vaccine is 100% safe - no medicine is that - nor that people should be forced to be vaccinated. I am saying that linking logically explained events and not conflating unrelated events is better than wild speculation. |
Both Johnson and Johnson and astra zeneca jabs have been halted in not only the US but also countless countries across the globe on safety fears..
With something in the order of 14 billion jabs required globally as a minimum and just under 5.5 billion Administered the Notion that there is a diminishing market is somewhat premature isn't it, and in fact you'd see massive rises in the Pfizer jab as its seen as the safest...but just modest gains on their shares. | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 16:15 - Nov 3 with 794 views | saint68 |
| The markets know something is looming on 13:25 - Nov 3 by DorsetIan |
It helps if you have a clue what you're talking about. I see he's done you again.
I'd stop digging if I were you. |
But I was correct again Ian.. | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 16:20 - Nov 3 with 791 views | saint901 |
Astra Zeneca and J&J are acknowledged to cause adverse issues in a few cases PER MILLION.
The Western world has the luxury of being able to shelve those and move to others which (it is claimed) have a lower adverse ratio. We're still talking about a few cases PER MILLION.
I'm not sure where your numbers of vaccinated vs unvaccinated are from (link please) but the majority of the Western world countries have very high rates. The exception is the USA where politics is an active cause of death for many.
The unvaccinated are in poorer (relatively) countries or in places like Brazil where a nut job president thinks Covid is a hoax. (Hopefully he'll be jailed soon).
Companies supplying vaccines to those territories are being urged to do so at cost (or less). If you were investing in stock of a company which was guaranteed not to be profit making for the next year or so, you would be bonkers. So you divest and move into something with better prospects.
Your original post however claimed that the share price was tanking because of potential problems on the horizon. I don't want to put words into your mouth but presumably you imply massive claims against them for harm done by their APPROVED medicines.
I've demonstrated that - in my view - the share price is fluctuating for economic reasons and not in anticipation of the company being sued out of existence. I've also asked for proof that other pharmas' are suffering anything other than routine movements.
If you have evidence please share it.
Otherwise conflating two unrelated issues because you think it validates a conspiracy theory does nothing except hide the truth from all of us. | | | |
| The markets know something is looming on 16:32 - Nov 3 with 783 views | saint68 |
| The markets know something is looming on 16:20 - Nov 3 by saint901 |
Astra Zeneca and J&J are acknowledged to cause adverse issues in a few cases PER MILLION.
The Western world has the luxury of being able to shelve those and move to others which (it is claimed) have a lower adverse ratio. We're still talking about a few cases PER MILLION.
I'm not sure where your numbers of vaccinated vs unvaccinated are from (link please) but the majority of the Western world countries have very high rates. The exception is the USA where politics is an active cause of death for many.
The unvaccinated are in poorer (relatively) countries or in places like Brazil where a nut job president thinks Covid is a hoax. (Hopefully he'll be jailed soon).
Companies supplying vaccines to those territories are being urged to do so at cost (or less). If you were investing in stock of a company which was guaranteed not to be profit making for the next year or so, you would be bonkers. So you divest and move into something with better prospects.
Your original post however claimed that the share price was tanking because of potential problems on the horizon. I don't want to put words into your mouth but presumably you imply massive claims against them for harm done by their APPROVED medicines.
I've demonstrated that - in my view - the share price is fluctuating for economic reasons and not in anticipation of the company being sued out of existence. I've also asked for proof that other pharmas' are suffering anything other than routine movements.
If you have evidence please share it.
Otherwise conflating two unrelated issues because you think it validates a conspiracy theory does nothing except hide the truth from all of us. |
Now your waffling.. you made out you knew exactly what was happening..Ian got so happy that his smile split his ears..but then it's now become just speculation 901..
The US only granted FDA approval 8 weeks ago for one vaccine provider..you made out that US government would pick up the lions share of claims/damages..that wasn't correct was it.
Johnson and Johnson and Astra Zeneca have been pulled from countless countries yet you say not...incorrect and just plain assumption from you to the contrary.
It's OK rattling of paragraphs of hypothesis and assumptions..but the real issue is that people are getting severe side effects from these vaccines and even dying..you even say vaccinating children is beneficial..well it isn't to them in any degree.
The share prices are falling as more information is coming through in regards to side effects and investors are pulling their funds in accordance. | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 16:48 - Nov 3 with 767 views | saint901 |
Mr 68, I suggest that you go back and read what I actually wrote rather than putting your own spin on the words I used.
I think you'll find that it is illegal to sell an unapproved drug in the USA (as it is in most western countries). If as you claim the FDA only approved a drug a few weeks ago, it could not have been sold before then. No sales = no claims.
Nothing I have said about the Moderna vaccine is incorrect. Speculating on future actions of companies and their share price is what people who "follow the money" do. The very brief summary analysis I offered is distilled from a number of market watcher reports into not Moderna per se, but this whole sector.
It is my personal view (backed by some emerging evidence) that teenagers can be a vector for the disease. Reducing the impact of that vector and importantly reducing the population which has Covid, means that mutations are less likely. The balance between the potential for a new variant and the temporary or in some case fatal harm that may occur in a handful of people, is - in my personal view - worth vaccinating against. Others, especially those with children of that age, may disagree and I would not dream of forcing them to do something against their will.
I've been very careful to say when I'm reporting on financial matters and personal opinions. I can evidence financial matters - and have. I cannot evidence a personal opinion and therefore it has weight only with me.
I do however have a problem with unsupported speculation being recycled as proof and have asked you at least twice now to supply evidence. Where is it? | | | |
| The markets know something is looming on 17:34 - Nov 3 with 723 views | dwayne_dibley |
| The markets know something is looming on 12:36 - Nov 3 by Sadoldgit |
I love it when people with agendas and no knowledge get owned by those who know what they are talking about. |
now that sounds like the gobshite the superheroes spout in meetings uncluttered by fact | |
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| The markets know something is looming on 17:35 - Nov 3 with 723 views | saint901 |
Thanks for the links.
So three had Emergency use approval by the FDA and now one (Pfizer) has full approval.
That's not the same as one of them being "withdrawn" or having its approval (emergency or otherwise) withdrawn is it. | | | |
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