| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues 09:05 - Jun 17 with 1330 views | SaintsNews |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 09:36 - Jun 17 with 1276 views | Berber |
Genuine talent spotters will always get better offers. Plenty of academies replace them with someone much cheaper, sometimes a club legend, and the fans are happy. The new talent spotter identifies a few physically big kids with a bit of talent, who look good for a couple of years due to their size. By the time they are 18 or 19, the other kids have caught up, and the “prospects” have turned into plodding donkeys, lucky to get spots at League 2 clubs.
But fingers crossed that we get our man. 2or 3 years good work will pay dividends in 5 or6 years time. |  |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 09:56 - Jun 17 with 1242 views | SaintNick |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 09:36 - Jun 17 by Berber |
Genuine talent spotters will always get better offers. Plenty of academies replace them with someone much cheaper, sometimes a club legend, and the fans are happy. The new talent spotter identifies a few physically big kids with a bit of talent, who look good for a couple of years due to their size. By the time they are 18 or 19, the other kids have caught up, and the “prospects” have turned into plodding donkeys, lucky to get spots at League 2 clubs.
But fingers crossed that we get our man. 2or 3 years good work will pay dividends in 5 or6 years time. |
The problem is for clubs is that you have to have an academy and that means having a new intake of about 15 kids each year.
When they arrive there will probably only be about 3- 5 that a club will think have a decent chance of making it at League level and perhaps only 1 or 2 at the level the club is playing at , but you need a squad around them.
That means that most years around 10 kids will be let go by clubs and be lucky to get into a National League south set up.
So when the club releases 10 players most of who go into obscurity that is not necessarily indicative that the club's scouting system or coaching is poor, just that it is what it is, the 3 or so genuine prospects have to have other players around them.
This is the case at whatever level, whether its Man City or Chelsea who are selling their prospects on to other Premier League teams and getting the odd one that makes their own first team or Saints who get a far better ratio of genuine first teamers, but still sell on the rest.
It's about covering the cost of running the system.
Saints strategy has chenged slightly in the past few years, now we are looking just as much at those like Livramento who are Premier League standard at the big clubs but not near the first team |  |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 10:18 - Jun 17 with 1208 views | saints__fan__73 |
"The club are hoping to build a new team around key players James Ward-Prowse, Kyle Walker-Peters and Tino Livramento but there is much work to be done beyond that."
Well that shows how deep we are in the shit, two of those 3 play at the same position...
Why are we looking to spend millions of quid on other PL's club's youngsters when are own are actually just as good??? |  |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 10:58 - Jun 17 with 1146 views | Saintsforeverj |
Surely the idea, is that the "talent spotters", more quickly and more accurately, find talented players for the future. Chelsea in particular have been able to do it (Broja, Livramento and others), whereas we have found it difficult to produce anyone good enough. We need to be able to find our own Broja or quickly get them here and sign them up from bigger clubs that won't give them a chance like we would. How possible or successful that will be, with new and better scouts / talent spotters, I wouldn't have a clue. Spurs created Kane, Everton Rooney, Chelsea Abraham etc, Man U Rashford, Greenwood, yet we haven't produced anyone of real quality in recent times. So there is definitely improvement to be made in this area. | |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:00 - Jun 17 with 1100 views | Ron11 |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 10:58 - Jun 17 by Saintsforeverj |
Surely the idea, is that the "talent spotters", more quickly and more accurately, find talented players for the future. Chelsea in particular have been able to do it (Broja, Livramento and others), whereas we have found it difficult to produce anyone good enough. We need to be able to find our own Broja or quickly get them here and sign them up from bigger clubs that won't give them a chance like we would. How possible or successful that will be, with new and better scouts / talent spotters, I wouldn't have a clue. Spurs created Kane, Everton Rooney, Chelsea Abraham etc, Man U Rashford, Greenwood, yet we haven't produced anyone of real quality in recent times. So there is definitely improvement to be made in this area. |
'We haven't produced anyone of real quality in recent times'
Gareth Bale wouldn't agree with that. | | | |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:06 - Jun 17 with 1095 views | saints__fan__73 |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:00 - Jun 17 by Ron11 |
'We haven't produced anyone of real quality in recent times'
Gareth Bale wouldn't agree with that. |
Luke Shaw? Created a decent player in Calum Chambers before moving too early ruined him.
Our academy has been on the rocks for a good few years, but Crocker has returned and the turnaround has been incredible. We won the Southern section of the Academy league last year and narrowly lost to Man City in the final.
We shouldn't need to keep raiding other club's academies when we have a very good one ourselves.
Sadly our owners are following he Kreugerball approach of thinking you can by a player for £15m and sell two years later for 50m.
The one problem we've had with this as Gunn, Vestergaard, Lemina, Hoedt, Elyounsii, Armstrong, etc, etc, etc have proved is that it is complete bollux. | |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:10 - Jun 17 with 1083 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:00 - Jun 17 by Ron11 |
'We haven't produced anyone of real quality in recent times'
Gareth Bale wouldn't agree with that. |
Bale? He is ancient. That was about 15 years ago.
I wouldn't call that recent. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 12:15]
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:17 - Jun 17 with 1059 views | SaintNick |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 10:58 - Jun 17 by Saintsforeverj |
Surely the idea, is that the "talent spotters", more quickly and more accurately, find talented players for the future. Chelsea in particular have been able to do it (Broja, Livramento and others), whereas we have found it difficult to produce anyone good enough. We need to be able to find our own Broja or quickly get them here and sign them up from bigger clubs that won't give them a chance like we would. How possible or successful that will be, with new and better scouts / talent spotters, I wouldn't have a clue. Spurs created Kane, Everton Rooney, Chelsea Abraham etc, Man U Rashford, Greenwood, yet we haven't produced anyone of real quality in recent times. So there is definitely improvement to be made in this area. |
The first thing to realise that is that the talent spotters are signing up youngsters at age 8-10 these days and each club has a certain catchment area it can scout in geographically clubs like Chelsea due to being in London and having around a dozen clubs in their catchment area can therefore scout further afield and they have academy schools in Southampton and most of Hampshire, so we compete with them.
So if we find our own Broja aged 10 we are competing against Chelsea in this area and allegedly the big clubs offer the parents big inducements to get who they see as the cream of the crop.
So its not just having the best talent spotters its about what you can offer, sadly some parents choose the Chelsea route where you are guaranteed money etc even if the kid fails to make it rather than the Saints route.
Secondly as i have said many times, you don't fint out how good your talent spotters or academy set up is now, you find out in 10-12 years time.
When we were getting Oxlade Chamberlain, JWP, Calum Chambers, Luke Shaw etc into the first team in 2010-2014 everyone was salivating over our youth system, but the truth was its was shot to pieces at that time, all of these players had been signed to the club around a decade earlier as 10 year olds.
Back in 2009 when we were in administration we couldn't even sign a youth team that year, we lost players in our own set up and had to start again, it was neglected until 2014 when we started to rebuild it.
So that means that we should be starting to see some fruits of rebuild around about now, there is some evidence thats ome are breaking through, but as i said in the article truth is if we get one genuine first team player every 3 years that would be exceptional, most will just be sold on for small fees that go towards making the academy financial self supporting.
Because Chelsea & City hoover up all the best talents in their catch all and sell on strategy it means that we have to talent spot a little bit later on in players careers, pick up the 18-20 olds who are disenchanted with not getting into Chelsea's first team. | |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:18 - Jun 17 with 1056 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:06 - Jun 17 by saints__fan__73 |
Luke Shaw? Created a decent player in Calum Chambers before moving too early ruined him.
Our academy has been on the rocks for a good few years, but Crocker has returned and the turnaround has been incredible. We won the Southern section of the Academy league last year and narrowly lost to Man City in the final.
We shouldn't need to keep raiding other club's academies when we have a very good one ourselves.
Sadly our owners are following he Kreugerball approach of thinking you can by a player for £15m and sell two years later for 50m.
The one problem we've had with this as Gunn, Vestergaard, Lemina, Hoedt, Elyounsii, Armstrong, etc, etc, etc have proved is that it is complete bollux. |
The idea of creating a silk purse from a pig's ear is a different thing, and I agree hasn't worked in recent times. If they were any good, they would have been spotted by the top clubs. It's rare to be able to buy a player cheap and then he becomes a super star. But Broja and Livramento are the types of players we want to produce. We surely want more of them. | |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:29 - Jun 17 with 1045 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:17 - Jun 17 by SaintNick |
The first thing to realise that is that the talent spotters are signing up youngsters at age 8-10 these days and each club has a certain catchment area it can scout in geographically clubs like Chelsea due to being in London and having around a dozen clubs in their catchment area can therefore scout further afield and they have academy schools in Southampton and most of Hampshire, so we compete with them.
So if we find our own Broja aged 10 we are competing against Chelsea in this area and allegedly the big clubs offer the parents big inducements to get who they see as the cream of the crop.
So its not just having the best talent spotters its about what you can offer, sadly some parents choose the Chelsea route where you are guaranteed money etc even if the kid fails to make it rather than the Saints route.
Secondly as i have said many times, you don't fint out how good your talent spotters or academy set up is now, you find out in 10-12 years time.
When we were getting Oxlade Chamberlain, JWP, Calum Chambers, Luke Shaw etc into the first team in 2010-2014 everyone was salivating over our youth system, but the truth was its was shot to pieces at that time, all of these players had been signed to the club around a decade earlier as 10 year olds.
Back in 2009 when we were in administration we couldn't even sign a youth team that year, we lost players in our own set up and had to start again, it was neglected until 2014 when we started to rebuild it.
So that means that we should be starting to see some fruits of rebuild around about now, there is some evidence thats ome are breaking through, but as i said in the article truth is if we get one genuine first team player every 3 years that would be exceptional, most will just be sold on for small fees that go towards making the academy financial self supporting.
Because Chelsea & City hoover up all the best talents in their catch all and sell on strategy it means that we have to talent spot a little bit later on in players careers, pick up the 18-20 olds who are disenchanted with not getting into Chelsea's first team. |
What you say makes sense but I assume we will be looking at how to be clever and overcome this. Presumably, we need to be "selling the dream" of first team football in the PL in academy schools across the country. They can be told that they can still get their dream move to Chelsea in the future, but we will provide the best opportunity to develop into a player good enough with first team football that they wouldn't get at a City or Chelsea. This could be put to the parents too. I don't know, but maybe this hasn't been in place with enough intensity and is why we are appointing talent spotters and new scouts to develop this area of the club.
We know we can't compete financially , so have to be one step ahead or cleverer in other ways. We are in the PL, we need to spot the Brojas and Livramentos before they do, and convince them and their parents to come here. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 12:31]
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:53 - Jun 17 with 1022 views | SaintNick |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:29 - Jun 17 by Saintsforeverj |
What you say makes sense but I assume we will be looking at how to be clever and overcome this. Presumably, we need to be "selling the dream" of first team football in the PL in academy schools across the country. They can be told that they can still get their dream move to Chelsea in the future, but we will provide the best opportunity to develop into a player good enough with first team football that they wouldn't get at a City or Chelsea. This could be put to the parents too. I don't know, but maybe this hasn't been in place with enough intensity and is why we are appointing talent spotters and new scouts to develop this area of the club.
We know we can't compete financially , so have to be one step ahead or cleverer in other ways. We are in the PL, we need to spot the Brojas and Livramentos before they do, and convince them and their parents to come here. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 12:31]
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You cant do it across the country, there are strict catchment areas for clubs, so for instance Chelsea has Southampton in their catchment area but Arsenal for instance would now, its mainly based geographically.
Selling the dream is all well and good and many parents do buy into it, but the alleged inducements for the most talented players are said to be lucrative, houses have been mentioned, a guaranteed professional contract at age 18 etc
If you put it to a poor parent that he could have a new house now whatever happened to his son, then it might be hard to turn down.
We cant compete financially against Chelsea at academy level , but as I said the players coming through now are those that were signed when we barely had an academy, we will find out in the next few years whether the revamp of 2014 was successful | |
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| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 13:03 - Jun 17 with 995 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Southampton Major Backroom Staff Overhaul Continues on 12:53 - Jun 17 by SaintNick |
You cant do it across the country, there are strict catchment areas for clubs, so for instance Chelsea has Southampton in their catchment area but Arsenal for instance would now, its mainly based geographically.
Selling the dream is all well and good and many parents do buy into it, but the alleged inducements for the most talented players are said to be lucrative, houses have been mentioned, a guaranteed professional contract at age 18 etc
If you put it to a poor parent that he could have a new house now whatever happened to his son, then it might be hard to turn down.
We cant compete financially against Chelsea at academy level , but as I said the players coming through now are those that were signed when we barely had an academy, we will find out in the next few years whether the revamp of 2014 was successful |
"Strict catchment areas". So why are Chelsea allowed to scout players in the city of a Southampton, which has its own PL club. If they can do it in our city, then we should be able to do it in their catchment area and London. | |
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