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Karl Henry 10:11 - Jan 29 with 4329 views

i have been amongst his biggest crtics, but, credit to him, he came on at Ipwich and did a good job and has been solid since and has shown he is a valuable member of the squad when we are stretched so thin. He tries hard, no doubt, one of the things you want in any player and i was obviously delighted to see him score....

however, in that central midfield role, he is still an accident waiting to happen. He needs to long to get the ball under and then work out what to do with it (a couple of times last night he had the confidence to pass first time, and forwards(!), and it opened up potential), which invarialby means he is caught in possession and ends up feindng peole off, facing our goal (goals against at Burnley and Everton were directly from this). Against sharp midfied palyers, it will be very costly again.

Karl Henry on 13:03 - Jan 29 with 1191 views

Antti_Heinola

Karl Henry on 11:05 - Jan 29 by Neil_SI

If you looked at the times when Henry dallied on the ball, he was looking for a pass, but there was little or no movement around him, and with Danny Simpson out, there was no defender willing to transition into midfield or attacking positions to help encourage more movement and options.

And because the crowd always groans when Henry goes backwards, he now seems reluctant to do so, even when the pass is the right one to do. Therefore it adds that little bit more hesitancy to his play and that exacerbates the problem, of which is sometimes perceptual from the crowds point of view as well.

I think he has been unfairly treated and ridiculed in general and overall, but the one thing the goal did for Henry, which was a fine strike, was clearly boost his confidence. He had a spring in his step afterwards and was more energetic and more willing to drive forward as well. Let's hope it helps him raise his game further, and let's hope we can show him the necessary patience to get there as well, as we would for players that are fan favourites or kids.

The main issue I had last night from the central midfield is he and Tom Carroll both sat very deep and that contributed to our problems. With no defenders really getting forward, it left just the wide men to make runs up and down in straight lines, and Andy Johnson to try and get hold of the ball, but we didn't find him in the channels either so everything became a bit static and flat.

Nonsense Neil. He has absolutely no vision and does not have the confidence or ability to pick a decent pass forward. Whenever he gets it he passes it backwards - last night he dallied and dallied and then almost got tackled and then passed it back to Clint or Dunne as he does every single time he receives the ball, pretty much. What was it, three times he was robbed in a dangerous area because he was too slow to make a decision? In an all-round poor performance, he was absolutely diabolical last night - except for an incredible goal and a vital challenge at the end of injury time. Dave b is spot on - we'll get battered with him in CM on Sat.

To say no one was in space for him is just wrong. LTC constantly moved to play quick one-twos with him and he's just not good enough to play that way. It's always been the same - it was the same at Wolves where he was famed for the back to the centre back pass. I'm sorry, you cannot blame the fans for his hesitancy - that's just a major flaw in his game. You could see that Bolton identified him as a weak link to exploit - they hounded him whenever he had the ball, knowing they had a chance to nick it, which they did several times - and he was extremely lucky to get a free kick for one late on, which was never a foul in a million years.

Having said all that, he wasn't the only culprit last night. Everyone, except for Carroll, really, was so slow to move the ball. That's been a problem all season. Kranjcar, who did ok last night, was still too slow to move the ball. BAE was slow and kept playing hugely risky and essentially useless-but-look-nice crossfield passes, which always get a round of applause as if it's a difficult skill. I'm a big fan of Phillips but he must learn to sometimes play the ball first time.

All in all, we were lucky, again - you can see how Reading put 7 past that shower, but once we were two-up it was the classic thing of thinking the game was won and not trying to really kill them off. That and our monotonous sloppiness in the first half of matches is starting to get really annoying.

Glad we won - two good goals and we seem to have that happy knack of winning games when not playing well which is apparently what top teams are made of. But would be nice to see us play well for 90 minutes!

Sorry for the moaning - there were at least extenuating circumstances last night with the various injuries.

Bare bones.

Karl Henry on 13:04 - Jan 29 with 1191 views

R_from_afar

Karl Henry on 10:48 - Jan 29 by essextaxiboy

I agree with this ,

He only started because Barton was unfit , he is not the best on the ball but that is not what he was bought for .

He gets himself goal side very quickly when we lose possession and fronts up the opposition . He dug Dunne out of the sh*t last night when he headed down to the feet of their bloke 20 yds out .

The stick he was getting from some around me was just mad . He is there in a hooped shirt doing his best . Our job is to get behind the team ...

He has a simple, three word mission: "Tackle then pass". Not a sexy job and for that reason, players of his ilk often get dog's abuse, as Gavin Mahon did at times. He is there to often a defensive shield. I am delighted that he got a goal and who know's how crucial that one will be.

RFA

"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."

Karl Henry on 13:13 - Jan 29 with 1181 views

M40R

If he can stick to "tackle then pass" all should be ok. It's when we pass to him than problems arise.

I say that Harry introduces a new rule: don't pass to Henry in our own half. It worked well enough for Warnock and Adel...

Karl Henry on 14:15 - Jan 29 with 1139 views

Antti_Heinola

Karl Henry on 13:04 - Jan 29 by R_from_afar
He has a simple, three word mission: "Tackle then pass". Not a sexy job and for that reason, players of his ilk often get dog's abuse, as Gavin Mahon did at times. He is there to often a defensive shield. I am delighted that he got a goal and who know's how crucial that one will be. RFA

if only he could 'tackle than pass'. Mahon was a far better player - as was - IS - Shaun Derry.

But yes, well done on the goal. Very much his Eric Sabin moment.

Bare bones.

Karl Henry on 14:19 - Jan 29 with 1135 views

Neil_SI

Karl Henry on 13:03 - Jan 29 by Antti_Heinola

I'm not really sure what I have said is nonsense, just in the way what you've said is not nonsense.

But the thing is, you're talking about a lack of vision and a lack of confidence to pick a pass, but that's not Henry's game, and never has been and it's not what he was bought and brought here to do either.

He is fulfilling the job he was brought here to do, so from the staff's perspective, they're probably more than satisfied. I think they're getting out of him what they wanted and what they expected, but I also think there are many supporters out there who have different expectations of him and what his role and skill set should be.

There have been plenty of times I've heard groans about when a player has passed backwards, but there have been nearly as many times when I've said to myself "that's the right pass" to make in the circumstances and context of play. And, I'd much prefer him to pass backwards if that's what he's comfortable with, and if I knew he had weaknesses and I was his team-mate, you best be sure I'm going to move and make sure I'm nearby and in free space to take the ball.

You could flip this all around as well, while some criticise him for not being able to pick a pass, which is fine, how different is this to say Joey Barton, who gives the ball away probably more with over hit, under hit or speculative passes, which more often than not never reach their man?

Barton has also passed the ball straight to the opposition in dangerous areas far more than Henry has done this season, albeit he has obviously played more. In fact, just in the first fixture, Barton put Jermain Beckford through on goal after dallying about on the ball.

Is it fair to criticise Barton of that, or his forward passes? Or do you look at it and say "well if one of them reached its target it might have helped unlock the door"? It's just styles, ways of playing and some players do jobs that are boring and uninspiring to unlock the door for better players to do theirs and every team needs a bit of both to ensure there's some amount of balance.

Personally I just don't see how Henry has been *that* much worse than some of the other players, for me, this season, a lot of the performances from everybody have been much of a muchness.

Karl Henry is just a Championship standard player. It might be that he's not a top Championship standard player any more, but he is playing at a level where he can fit in just fine. We're simply embarrassed by the riches we have, we've even forgot to some degree, what type of player is the norm for this level of football because of our over reliance on big name signings, who, should really be tearing this division apart considering the fortunes we've spent on them.

He is of course very experienced in the Championship — and knows the division well — more than some of the higher profile players, so away from his performances on the pitch, that experience must be seen as important to the club as otherwise they wouldn't have signed him. Maybe they even felt that with so many high profile names, there was a chance some of them didn't want to do the dirty work, or the ugly side, and felt he might just help balance that out with a minimal of fuss. Who knows?

Would I have signed him? Probably not. But I've never really minded him or his style of play. In terms as for us, I don't think he's been disappointing, he's been about what I expected, sometimes good, sometimes not, but at the moment not helped by a lack of regular football and then just thrown in to do a job, often in a flat four midfield which makes it even more difficult.

I don't see it as moaning, or nonsense, it's just a different perspective.

Karl Henry on 15:30 - Jan 29 with 1097 views

Antti_Heinola

Fair enough, but I'm sorry Neil, I can't get past this, and I've seen a few people say the same thing:

"But the thing is, you're talking about a lack of vision and a lack of confidence to pick a pass, but that's not Henry's game, and never has been and it's not what he was bought and brought here to do either."

It's not 'Henry's game' to pass the ball effectively, to pick a pass? I'm sorry, I can't get my head around that. He's a central midfield player. I don't care what kind of central midfielder you are, at Championship level - no - at *any* level - you MUST be able to pass a football and be comfortable on the ball! That's absolutely CRUCIAL for a central midfielder, possibly more than any other position! What was he brought here to do if not pass the ball intelligently? If it's to break up play, what do we expect him to do after it? If it's to pass to someone with some half-decent ability, why doesn't he do that with any kind of regularity?

You simply cannot hide behind the 'he's here to break up play' stuff. He's a central midfielder, he's here to tackle, pass, run, and shoot. That's what central midfielders do - even anchormen. And if he did just break up play effectively and knock it to another player, I'd be happy - but he doesn't. He just doesn't. As Jonno has pointed out, the guy is not a Championship midfielder as you suggest - he was rejected by Wolves. He couldn't even get in Wolves team much last season, when they were diabolical.

Look, I don't boo him or chant against him at games - I never do that. But several times he left me with my head in my hands last night at his lack of knowledge or ability with the ball at his feet. Like you, I have no problem with a pass backwards - better to keep possession than to play dangerous passes. But too many times last night there were options that he eschewed, then dallied, then got harried, then passed backwards or lost the ball when he ran out of options. Yes Barton has put us in trouble a few times, but at least when he does it it's because he's trying to make something happen. Henry's doing it out of sheer indecision and slow-wittedness.

Bare bones.

Karl Henry on 15:36 - Jan 29 with 1091 views

Jamie

Karl Henry on 15:30 - Jan 29 by Antti_Heinola

+1,000,000.

Karl Henry on 16:12 - Jan 29 with 1074 views

Neil_SI

Karl Henry on 15:30 - Jan 29 by Antti_Heinola

It's cool, it's just a chat, and I'm enjoying it. :)

That's your view on what a central midfield player should be, which is what I've already said. You have an expectation of the attributes required, but the flaws you speak of exist in most of our current midfielders. Do they not?

Harry Redknapp and his staff obviously have a different point of view — otherwise they wouldn't have signed him. They've been around the game long enough to know exactly what kind of player Karl Henry is and what they're going to get from him.

Personally I think Barton is the poorest passer of the ball out of the lot of them, with the poorest decision making. If he could work on his decision making and improve and stick to his short passing game — he'd be a much, much better player. But that's not as glamorous and he wants to be seen as a creative midfielder, when he's not.

Henry is not a creative midfield player, and does not try to be one. That's the difference I guess. He is going to stick to the job he's told and been asked to do, and he's not really going to deviate away from that. Game to game, you'll roughly know what you're going to get from him.

The midfield role is the hardest, by some way. It's not easy in there, especially at that level. I think a lot of people forget about that, or maybe just don't realise, just how tough it is. I have sympathy for all of them at times.

I see a lot of similarities between many of our midfield players, and I've said in the past on this forum, that where one has strengths, it's often countered by a weakness elsewhere, and that we don't seem to have any midfield players with a good balance of attributes you'd want in one player — especially one with legs who is able to go from box-to-box a little more freely. They're hard to find of course, and very expensive! Usually we get the right average when there are three in there together, but not the right blend in terms of context of play.

Where Henry is different to the rest, is that he is more willing and more ready to run backwards and beyond his defenders. His covering game is far better than the other midfielders, but it's not always really needed at this level. In fact, there's not really any others who seem to do that. Shaun Derry was the only one (and yes, Derry has to date played that role better than Henry — but Henry certainly has more legs than Derry overall).

In our team, with the lack of pace in central defence, he's just there to steadily be on hand and help them out. I think the depth of our play doesn't help the midfielders though, it's often too deep, because it widens the amount of space on the pitch that they have to cover and that's often why they struggle.

Even if the defence sat 5-10 yards deeper than is normal, that's an awful lot of extra distance for any midfielder to cover. It's why we sometimes struggle to pass and move the ball well. It will certainly affect those who's assets in those areas aren't their strong points, like Henry.

Five yards becomes, ten, ten yards becomes fifteen, fifteen yards becomes twenty and so on. That small change to distance asks a lot more of anybody trying to pass the ball effectively. Shorten that distance and you'll find all of them improve, almost naturally and organically. Last night, we were really slow to get into the correct shape from any dead ball situation, that also didn't help.

Of course, when that gap is widened, is affects other things. There is more space for the other team to operate in, more distance to cover and chase, more yards to make up to press the ball, and therefore, it also becomes harder to track players efficiently and consistently. It's why we've often played with three in the middle, to compensate the protection the defence need and that thickening up makes it hard to break us down by way of numbers... but then it also makes it hard for us to attack with any fluency when they're all so squished up and deep and it's why players like Matt Phillips will do well, because their pace and ability to carry the ball can suddenly stretch the play out and force the team to push up.

Anyway...going off point a little here, Henry's a squad player, and he's playing that bit part role okay. Nothing more, nothing less.

As with any player, if they're struggling, from a coaching perspective, you ask yourself what can you do to help or rectify things that you don't like? Last night, Henry got caught dallying once or twice, fine. Sometimes they were stupid, other times they were legitimate. There were times when some players looked available, but the proximity of their opponents made Henry wary that the receiver would be under too much pressure, or obviously, if he didn't pass the ball cleanly, he would indadvertedly put that player under pressure.

For me, that's a good sign, that the player recognises this and tries to mitigate and think about it. Once or twice, he thought too long and got himself into trouble instead. So perhaps, ask those players, get to know them, to say "do you really want it there? Are you happy to take it?" and if so, give it to them, but if they lose it, it's there problem. If they don't and can deal with it, fine, move on. But the way we played last night, where quite a lot of them weren't at the races, it's difficult. They've all got to function, be on their game and play well to make it work.

Karl Henry on 16:33 - Jan 29 with 1058 views

Antti_Heinola

all valid stuff mate, but i just think you cut him too much slack.
I do totally agree that our major problem is too many midfielders of the same type - that's not Henry's fault, it's Harry's, and I've said that many times. His relentless signing of average central midfielders has, to me, been infuriating.
As for the stuff about what harry and his team saw/see in him. I know what *I* think he saw in Henry. It wasn't football ability. You have more trust in Harry than I do, Neil!

Bare bones.

Karl Henry on 16:35 - Jan 29 with 1057 views

RangersAreBack

Credit where it is due, he's done reasonably well in Barton's absence and scored a lovely goal last night.

Karl Henry on 16:35 - Jan 29 with 1057 views

simmo

This thread is a written version of death by a thousand cuts.

ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead

Karl Henry on 18:00 - Jan 29 with 1029 views

Neil_SI

I don't think I cut him too much slack, but let's take a look at this in more detail, this is what I think he's here to do, this is what I see him doing and this is what I think the staff are expecting him to do as well.

First up...

Here the ball has been kicked by their goalkeeper, and you can see Henry running back towards the defence, just by the halfway line.

He spots his man ahead of him and is visually identifying that Richard Dunne is about to go in for an aerial challenge. There may be a problem here, with where the ball drops.

He starts to accelerate as that happens...

And catches up with his man long before the challenge between Dunne and his marker takes place. Clint Hill is just about in the picture, quite far away, we have two on two or three on three at this moment in time. Hill is static and watching.

He touches his man with his hand, to check, and as he waits to see what's about to happen and how he needs to react. He's aware of his man, but his eyes are on the outcome of the challenge.

As the challenge is about to be made, he's now moved into action, ready to help Dunne if he can and to contest any second ball. This also gives him the option to cover Dunne, which he may need to if the player flicks it on and behind Assou Ekotto, or into the hole and more centrally. At this point, we can see that Niko Kranjcar is at the bottom of the picture, but statically watching, as is Tom Carroll, out of view.

Dunne wins the header.

That leaves Dunne and Assou Ekotto coming into an advanced position, to contest the second ball, so Henry naturally starts dropping in behind as cover and to protect the space in behind.

Here he's now in a good defensive position for cover, Assou Ekotto wins the ball.

Henry advances slightly to give Assou Ekotto a simple passing option, trying to help him out, Dunne is obviously there too, but Henry is the safer pass.

Assou Ekotto fires it straight past Henry, a poor pass, and is not even looking at the play anymore... Hill and Dunne are wide apart, throughout all this, Hill has held his position and stayed deep... Dunne is out of the game at the moment.

Henry realises the ball is not recoverable, but there's danger. The Bolton player points where he wants it, and Henry actually has a quick shift with his head to look and see where he is going.

He checks quickly as he looks to deal with the problem. Dunne is still no nearer to Hill.

Henry buys them time by running into the path of the runner, blocking the opportunity for the through ball to be played, and given his defenders more time to react. Through all of this, we only now see Niko Kranjcar just about appearing. There's no sign of the other midfielders, either Matt Philips or Tom Carroll.

The ball goes wide, Henry's done his job, now there's support in numbers from his fellow midfielders, but Assou Ekotto doesn't cover himself in glory and let's Craig Davies open up and shoot, and it thunders off the cross bar.

Second up.

Traore is mugged off the ball by Mark Davies who squares across the box. Henry is back there, inside the box, to the left of the image.

He takes up a great position and Assou Ekotto makes a great block, but actually Henry is right behind Assou Ekotto and may well have made the block himself. But good positioning. The other midfielders are outside of the box.

Third up

He has legs on him... not entirely sure why, but here he breaks out of midfield and closes down Jay Spearing. The other QPR midfielders are all static, and eventually the ball is passed back to the defender and back to Spearing, who under pressure accidentally boots the ball out of play as he tries to find players down their right side.

Fourth up...

He can pass, Kranjcar here delivers him the ball, and he lays it of one touch to Carroll, leading to Carroll breaking free and firing a tame shot at goal.

Fifth up

Dunne almost gets himself into a bit of trouble, but recovers. Henry is on the scene, identifying their could be a problem and running in his direction to help him if he needs it.

Dunne has it under control and comes forward, so Henry waits to see what he's going to do and protects behind him. Dunne plays the ball forward and we try to attack.

We put them under decent pressure from the attack, and Bolton try to clear the ball, potentially opening us up to be hit on the counter. Henry is first on the scene to this and wins the ball high up the pitch, having been behind Dunne just moments earlier.

He helps keep the play alive, but Assou Ekotto arrives on the scene with a wild strike, breaking the attack down and ending it.

Sixth up

We get possession of the ball, and start a decent looking attack down the left. Traore advances forward...as he does, Henry checks and looks behind to see what danger Traore has left, he starts to fill in and runs in that way in case something goes wrong.

The attack progresses well, Austin gets a strike away that's blocked and then cleared.

But Henry re-appears back on the scene to mop up the danger of the counter attack, winning a short header and keeping the play and attack alive.

Seventh up

For some reason, Dunne plays an odd ball into Henry who has three players around him.

Henry is under pressure, even before he has managed to take a touch. when the ball reaches him, he needs a good touch.

He gets a reasonable one, on this occasion, despite being under pressure.

The pass put him in trouble and now he's contesting.

He takes time and care in a tricky situation on the pitch and eventually works his way back to safety, giving the ball to Clint Hill. The crowd groaned.

Hill works it to Carroll, who gives it back to Henry. They're under a little pressure from the pressing from Bolton.

Henry thinks about going to Dunne, but his risk assessment tells him not to do it. The crowd are a little impatient, but he doesn't want to put him in any trouble.

Henry turns and looks up, seeing who he can pass too. Carroll is showing an interest nearest, but Henry initially wants the ball away from the danger.

There is nothing on, cue more moans, as Henry puts his foot on the ball to slow it down and give the forward players a chance to check and re-make their runs.

He starts to show his hands, willing them to move and starts to point, asking them to go.

Nobody does, so he holds onto the ball and waits for the Bolton players to move. Prior to this, he HAS spotted Niko Kranjcar's potential availability at the top of the screen.

He plays the pass, now the play has all sucked to where Henry was originally going to pass, it's opened up space down the other side.

And we work that really well, but Traore delivers a poor cross into the box.

Eighth.

Long ball up field, Henry is by the circle near the halfway line, just in front of Clint Hill. He spots Hill is about to go for a challenge.

So he sensibly drops in behind as he does and covers him.

Ninth and finally...

Last kick of the game, the keeper boots the ball up field and Henry is by the centre circle. But the Bolton player in front wins the header and flicks it on.

It's flicked on again and goes beyond Henry. He's a long way from goal here.

The ball travels towards the two centre backs who are in a two on two situation.

He's got an awful lot of catching up here but he persists and tracks.

The defenders contest the ball and Henry drops in behind to cover. It breaks free, but it's Henry on hand to make the tackle.

A last ditch block, that ensures we go away winning the game.

That is what he was bought for, that's his responsibility to the team, and that's a player who is taking responsibility where others don't. Obviously he doesn't do some things as well as others, and has his flaws... but these are the little things I tend to see and I don't see any other midfielders of ours doing some of those ugly things that players sometimes don't want to take responsibility for.

[Post edited 29 Jan 2014 20:32]

Karl Henry on 18:06 - Jan 29 with 1022 views

WeaverQPR

Karl Henry on 18:00 - Jan 29 by Neil_SI