| A day that will live in infamy 20:50 - Jul 21 with 32685 views | colinallcars |
So, it looks like Boris Johnson will be named as next PM tomorrow. This country has hit rock bottom. If you think Theresa May was the worst, then think again. |  | | |  |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:39 - Jul 22 with 2355 views | stevec |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:10 - Jul 22 by daveB |
Good to see his bullshit has worked, he's not a can do man, he's so full of crap it's unbelievable. I'm not sure why anyone thinks the EU will blink first, if we go with no withdrawal agreement we then have to agree a deal with the EU on our future relationship and seeing how good Old Boris negotiated the Olympic Stadium we'll probably end up paying more to be out of it
That nonsense with the kipper the other day summed him up, make a joke and get people onside and angry over something that isn't actually true. Worked a treat in the referendum and happening again now |
So who else has any likelihood of ending Brexit and, at the same time, honour the democratic vote that took place?
Sometimes big events need larger than life characters. Doesn't mean they'll be great leaders in normal times, Churchill wasn't popular but he knew how to fight a war, his popularity only rose many years later. Likewise, however Boris ends this Brexit fiasco will undoubtedly be unpopular, but you'll find in 20 years time, the view of him will of changed.
It's about the right person at the right time, this just happens to be one of those occasions and, if it goes to plan, something beneficial not just for the UK but every other EU country that will finally see the light in not being dictated to by German rule. Greece and Italy spring to mind. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:45 - Jul 22 with 2340 views | Northernr |
The numbers are the numbers. Doesn't matter who the PM is when the majority is two. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:46 - Jul 22 with 2336 views | Maggsinho |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:45 - Jul 22 by Northernr |
The numbers are the numbers. Doesn't matter who the PM is when the majority is two. |
Maybe less if the rumoured defections of Conservative MPs to the LibDems are true. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:51 - Jul 22 with 2323 views | daveB |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:39 - Jul 22 by stevec |
So who else has any likelihood of ending Brexit and, at the same time, honour the democratic vote that took place?
Sometimes big events need larger than life characters. Doesn't mean they'll be great leaders in normal times, Churchill wasn't popular but he knew how to fight a war, his popularity only rose many years later. Likewise, however Boris ends this Brexit fiasco will undoubtedly be unpopular, but you'll find in 20 years time, the view of him will of changed.
It's about the right person at the right time, this just happens to be one of those occasions and, if it goes to plan, something beneficial not just for the UK but every other EU country that will finally see the light in not being dictated to by German rule. Greece and Italy spring to mind. |
no one does whilst the government have no majority. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:52 - Jul 22 with 2316 views | Toast_R |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:39 - Jul 22 by stevec |
So who else has any likelihood of ending Brexit and, at the same time, honour the democratic vote that took place?
Sometimes big events need larger than life characters. Doesn't mean they'll be great leaders in normal times, Churchill wasn't popular but he knew how to fight a war, his popularity only rose many years later. Likewise, however Boris ends this Brexit fiasco will undoubtedly be unpopular, but you'll find in 20 years time, the view of him will of changed.
It's about the right person at the right time, this just happens to be one of those occasions and, if it goes to plan, something beneficial not just for the UK but every other EU country that will finally see the light in not being dictated to by German rule. Greece and Italy spring to mind. |
Chruchill's botched Gallipoli campaign was a military disaster on a gigantic scale but he still came back into politics and and achieved a history changing moment. If he hadn't, where would be all be now?
As for Johnson, only time will tell if he makes a good leader. I am very fearful of a Corbyn lead Socialist government, you look at a lot of Countries that call themselves Socialists and there just seem to be a lot of chaos. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 11:04 - Jul 22 with 2291 views | FDC |
| A day that will live in infamy on 09:35 - Jul 22 by robith |
Yeah funny one that on the front of the time today, citing 40% of members not supporting him, given 38% of them voted for Owen Smith |
Which means that 60% support him -- which is the percentage that voted for him at the last leadership contest. Absolute non-story. But the annual summer campaign is well and truly underway. Would personally welcome another leadership challenge, as he would win comfortably again and I think this time would be forced to take a much less conciliatory approach to the wreckers in the party. Which is one of my main criticisms of Corbyn to be honest. I can understand his hesitance to take bold measures to democratise the party in the face of a hostile press screaming about Stalinist purges etc. in the past, but time really is up for Wes Streeting and the rest of these dickheads now. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 11:07 - Jul 22 with 2281 views | FDC |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:45 - Jul 22 by Northernr |
The numbers are the numbers. Doesn't matter who the PM is when the majority is two. |
Plenty of Labour MPs have made noises about supporting May's deal if it came back again, which combined with the opportunity to cause mischief for Corbyn could well mean Johnson could actually get essentially the same deal through and point to his success where May had failed.
He'd get absolutely mullered by the Tory right for it afterwards of course, and would likely call a general election. In fact all roads lead to a GE this year as far as I can see. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 11:39 - Jul 22 with 2252 views | Tonto |
Whilst I acknowledge that Boris is more "can do", my worry is "what is he going to do?" he is a law unto himself and seems to be enjoying making himself a mini-Trump.
The recent kipper episode is classic example of not letting fact get in the way of a good populist rant, and the lady in the Iranian prison is an example of his diplomacy an negotiations skills, than the "do" is going to be closer to "do do". |  |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 11:42 - Jul 22 with 2252 views | JacksDad |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:52 - Jul 22 by Toast_R |
Chruchill's botched Gallipoli campaign was a military disaster on a gigantic scale but he still came back into politics and and achieved a history changing moment. If he hadn't, where would be all be now?
As for Johnson, only time will tell if he makes a good leader. I am very fearful of a Corbyn lead Socialist government, you look at a lot of Countries that call themselves Socialists and there just seem to be a lot of chaos. |
As opposed to this last administration serene progress ... lol does make I laugh when I hear any kind of warnings about any other kind of administration as everything except the wealth of the already wealthy has gone to sh1t under this administration, regardless of Brexit.
This country is in such a perilous state that we need to scrap this Parliament and set up a wartime coalition government. We really need to de-partisan politics here regardless as to how much it would upset Putin/Trump who rely on divide and conquer. [Post edited 22 Jul 2019 11:43]
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| A day that will live in infamy on 11:55 - Jul 22 with 2224 views | Dorse |
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| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 12:21 - Jul 22 with 2194 views | FDC |
| A day that will live in infamy on 11:04 - Jul 22 by FDC |
Which means that 60% support him -- which is the percentage that voted for him at the last leadership contest. Absolute non-story. But the annual summer campaign is well and truly underway. Would personally welcome another leadership challenge, as he would win comfortably again and I think this time would be forced to take a much less conciliatory approach to the wreckers in the party. Which is one of my main criticisms of Corbyn to be honest. I can understand his hesitance to take bold measures to democratise the party in the face of a hostile press screaming about Stalinist purges etc. in the past, but time really is up for Wes Streeting and the rest of these dickheads now. |
Just to add to this:
If the Labour leadership are really going to make a go of this, they need to be far less timid, vis-a-vis both internal battles and with the media. If you look at the polling post-Panorama for example, they haven't really moved from around 25-28% (YouGov aside, natch). This appears to be the hardcore, absolute rock-bottom for both the Tories and Labour. At this point there is little to be lost in calling out the absolutely atrocious misrepresentations and bias in the establishment press - yes there will be backlash, but it is a necessary battle for where they want to go. At this stage there is little point trying to build consensus with the likes of Tom Watson internally, and with Laura Kuntychops and the rest at the BBC. Lets have the battle.
To preempt: the comparison with not taking a decisive position on Brexit is invalid, since attempting to build consensus between remainers and leavers was the correct thing to do, but was unfortunately scuppered by ultras on both sides.
EDIT: This, for example, from Rafael Behr -- who has pretty much got everything wrong for the best part of three years now and yet remains one of the Guardian's go-to-commentators -- is categorically incorrect. It's just factually not true. John McD should be calling him a cvnt all over the place and making an example of him imo.
The idea that Rafael Behr has some insight into the Labour activist base is laughable.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2019 12:29]
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| A day that will live in infamy on 16:23 - Jul 22 with 2026 views | derbyhoop |
| A day that will live in infamy on 09:33 - Jul 22 by stevec |
Some of you lot do love a 'Can't do'.
Labour party, full of them. Tories with May & Hammond the same.
The best thing about Boris, hes' a 'Can do'. And Can do's at least have a good go at it, even if it ends in failure.
As I've said all along, Boris will be leader, he'll call a quick election, oust the rebels in his party (if he's got any sense), force either a Deal in our favour with the EU or if they persist with their intransigence, go for No Deal on Oct 31st and fck the EU over via taxation.
If it's in their Court, they will blink first. |
People are "Can't do" because, given the red lines laid down by May, nothing is do-able. Certainly nothing that respects those red lines.
Given the Parliamentary arithmetic there is every chance of Boris' term ending in failure. Also, he will take office on 23rd Aug, Parliament is in recess from 25th-Sep 3rd, how is he going to renegotiate an agreement that took 2 years, in the 6 weeks available.
I'm not convinced he will call a GE. It's possible of course but at the moment that is likely to result in a 4 way split in England with neither Tory , Labour, Lib Dem nor the Nigel Farage company being able to form a government on their own. All the campaign BS about defeating Corbyn is complete nonsense when Labour support is around 20%. He's already defeated.
The EU will not be intransigent. They will follow the principles (4 freedoms), European law and the results of the 2 year negotiation between Barnier and his team with the UK representatives, who agreed a deal on Nov 25th 2018. There will be no re-negotiation of the WA, although there may be minor changes to the Political Declaration.
Even the government acknowledges that no-deal will cause problems for UK trade.
And, if the UK goes for crash-out on Oct 31st, and then want to come back to the EU looking for a deal, the EU will insist on the same 3 things as the first priority, i.e.
Citizen's Rights
The Financial Settlement
The Irish backstop |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 16:31 - Jul 22 with 1997 views | PinnerPaul |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:45 - Jul 22 by Northernr |
The numbers are the numbers. Doesn't matter who the PM is when the majority is two. |
Yup - got it in one.
Impossible to do anything with that majority. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 17:58 - Jul 22 with 1910 views | essextaxiboy |
| A day that will live in infamy on 16:31 - Jul 22 by PinnerPaul |
Yup - got it in one.
Impossible to do anything with that majority. |
Exactly , prepare hard and loudly for WTO exit. Dont ask for an extension. Make a full negotiation team available to go anywhere anytime ..... and wait |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:03 - Jul 22 with 1904 views | rsonist |
Thought this was a Furlong/Barnes thread. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:04 - Jul 22 with 1904 views | essextaxiboy |
| A day that will live in infamy on 16:23 - Jul 22 by derbyhoop |
People are "Can't do" because, given the red lines laid down by May, nothing is do-able. Certainly nothing that respects those red lines.
Given the Parliamentary arithmetic there is every chance of Boris' term ending in failure. Also, he will take office on 23rd Aug, Parliament is in recess from 25th-Sep 3rd, how is he going to renegotiate an agreement that took 2 years, in the 6 weeks available.
I'm not convinced he will call a GE. It's possible of course but at the moment that is likely to result in a 4 way split in England with neither Tory , Labour, Lib Dem nor the Nigel Farage company being able to form a government on their own. All the campaign BS about defeating Corbyn is complete nonsense when Labour support is around 20%. He's already defeated.
The EU will not be intransigent. They will follow the principles (4 freedoms), European law and the results of the 2 year negotiation between Barnier and his team with the UK representatives, who agreed a deal on Nov 25th 2018. There will be no re-negotiation of the WA, although there may be minor changes to the Political Declaration.
Even the government acknowledges that no-deal will cause problems for UK trade.
And, if the UK goes for crash-out on Oct 31st, and then want to come back to the EU looking for a deal, the EU will insist on the same 3 things as the first priority, i.e.
Citizen's Rights
The Financial Settlement
The Irish backstop |
We guaranteed citizens rights literally years ago .. unilaterally .
39 Billion ? ... Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Backstop ? Other arrangements exist both sides know it . Its political . It just needs agreement without either side losing face . | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:06 - Jul 22 with 1898 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:04 - Jul 22 by essextaxiboy |
We guaranteed citizens rights literally years ago .. unilaterally .
39 Billion ? ... Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Backstop ? Other arrangements exist both sides know it . Its political . It just needs agreement without either side losing face . |
What arrangements exist for the backstop?
What are they? Genuine question, because I don't know of any. |  |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 18:14 - Jul 22 with 1886 views | essextaxiboy |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:06 - Jul 22 by BrianMcCarthy |
What arrangements exist for the backstop?
What are they? Genuine question, because I don't know of any. |
Carrying out sanitary tests on foods and livestock at points away from the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland;
Implementing Special Economic Zones to avoid disruption of cross-border communities, for example between Londonderry in Northern Ireland and Donegal in the Republic of Ireland;
Establishing a multi-tiered Trusted Trader programme, reducing the need for customs inspections of businesses accredited under the programme.
Basically taking steps to minimize inspections and doing them way back from the border. [Post edited 22 Jul 2019 18:16]
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| A day that will live in infamy on 18:23 - Jul 22 with 1870 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:14 - Jul 22 by essextaxiboy |
Carrying out sanitary tests on foods and livestock at points away from the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland;
Implementing Special Economic Zones to avoid disruption of cross-border communities, for example between Londonderry in Northern Ireland and Donegal in the Republic of Ireland;
Establishing a multi-tiered Trusted Trader programme, reducing the need for customs inspections of businesses accredited under the programme.
Basically taking steps to minimize inspections and doing them way back from the border. [Post edited 22 Jul 2019 18:16]
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Interesting ideas, but sticky plasters over the gaping wounds.
There's a huge threat to security in the North if a border is reinstated, as recently spelled out again by the heads of both the PSNI and GardaÃ.
For politicians to suddenly ignore the experts and for them to pretend anything else is gross negligence. | |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 18:28 - Jul 22 with 1859 views | distortR |
alas, i failed with my poison kipper. Figured he would eat the bloody thing, not wave it about on stage. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:34 - Jul 22 with 1846 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:28 - Jul 22 by distortR |
alas, i failed with my poison kipper. Figured he would eat the bloody thing, not wave it about on stage. |
I should have recognised you as the culprit. Copyright poison kipper and all. | |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 18:37 - Jul 22 with 1841 views | distortR |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:34 - Jul 22 by BrianMcCarthy |
I should have recognised you as the culprit. Copyright poison kipper and all. |
it came out of the Irish sea, so i reckon it was toxic, what with sellafield, the mersey discharge, and still some untreated sewerage from here. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 21:28 - Jul 22 with 1746 views | Tonto |
| A day that will live in infamy on 18:14 - Jul 22 by essextaxiboy |
Carrying out sanitary tests on foods and livestock at points away from the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland;
Implementing Special Economic Zones to avoid disruption of cross-border communities, for example between Londonderry in Northern Ireland and Donegal in the Republic of Ireland;
Establishing a multi-tiered Trusted Trader programme, reducing the need for customs inspections of businesses accredited under the programme.
Basically taking steps to minimize inspections and doing them way back from the border. [Post edited 22 Jul 2019 18:16]
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I dont think the word "bacially" belongs in that. Its Incredibly complicatied and the United Kingdom is at stake.
Government IT projects are never easy and you are trying to put together 27 different countries IT systems to create this trusted trader programme.
It ignores the history of smuggling that financed the IRA. There is a real danger to the peace process in Northern Ireland if this goes wrong... | |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 21:56 - Jul 22 with 1710 views | Red_Ranger |
| A day that will live in infamy on 08:58 - Jul 22 by Esox_Lucius |
If you think Corbyn would be a worse PM than Corbyn then you have been seriously brainwashed by MSM. Ask yourself why Corbyn has been the centre of one of the longest running, and most vicious character assassination campaigns ever seen conducted by the MSM. |
MSM???? | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 22:03 - Jul 22 with 1695 views | DannytheR |
| A day that will live in infamy on 21:28 - Jul 22 by Tonto |
I dont think the word "bacially" belongs in that. Its Incredibly complicatied and the United Kingdom is at stake.
Government IT projects are never easy and you are trying to put together 27 different countries IT systems to create this trusted trader programme.
It ignores the history of smuggling that financed the IRA. There is a real danger to the peace process in Northern Ireland if this goes wrong... |
"It ignores the history of smuggling that financed the IRA. There is a real danger to the peace process in Northern Ireland if this goes wrong..."
Well, I'm sure absolutely the last thing Johnson and Farage would want is another outbreak of terrorism in the UK that could then pave the way for a police crackdown and expansion of legal powers, particularly when it could be blamed on a specific non-British ethnic group.
Where did we put those water cannon again? |  | | |
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