| A day that will live in infamy 20:50 - Jul 21 with 32642 views | colinallcars |
So, it looks like Boris Johnson will be named as next PM tomorrow. This country has hit rock bottom. If you think Theresa May was the worst, then think again. |  | | |  |
| A day that will live in infamy on 13:28 - Jul 23 with 1914 views | TacticalR |
| A day that will live in infamy on 13:01 - Jul 23 by easthertsr |
On Boris, I love the description that he is a 'can do' politician. Can his supporters please supply us with a list of what he has done over the course of his lengthy career. Because I'm struggling to think of anything that hasn't been a negative. |
I found that comment from stevec quite illuminating, as at least it gives those of us who aren't admirers of Johnson an idea of what those who are admirers of Johnson see in him. |  |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 13:29 - Jul 23 with 1903 views | kensalriser |
My considered analysis concludes that Johnson is an absolutely massive bellend. |  |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 13:50 - Jul 23 with 1812 views | Dorse |
It wasn't a surprise and yet I am still surprised by the idea that Boris is PM. Perhaps that's his secret: each surprise is more surprising than the last.
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| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 14:01 - Jul 23 with 1764 views | DannytheR |
| A day that will live in infamy on 13:01 - Jul 23 by easthertsr |
On Boris, I love the description that he is a 'can do' politician. Can his supporters please supply us with a list of what he has done over the course of his lengthy career. Because I'm struggling to think of anything that hasn't been a negative. |
Well, he can did £43m of public money on the Garden Bridge. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:14 - Jul 23 with 1737 views | distortR |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:01 - Jul 23 by DannytheR |
Well, he can did £43m of public money on the Garden Bridge. |
The cost to the people of government vanity projects is disgraceful.
Even when they don't go ahead, the consultants fees are astronomical.
See it over here all the time, the whiff of corruption drifting around. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:17 - Jul 23 with 1727 views | WokingR |
No, it's because he was an entreprenuer, in case you hadn't realised. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:24 - Jul 23 with 1711 views | baldyoldgit |
| A day that will live in infamy on 09:03 - Jul 22 by colinallcars |
With support for Corbyn supposedly weakening, Johnson will probably call an early election saying it's “ in the interests of democracy “ |
if Johnson calls an early election or faces a no confidence vote and we go to a general election what will the tories put in their manifesto assuming EU have said no renegotiating?
Labour too for that matter. LIbDems will offer a ref, UKIP2.0 Ltd will advocate WTO no deal so that gives all the ardent leave/remain voters someone to vote for. If Boris goes for no deal they win back some UKIP2.0 voters but lose centrists remainers and he offers another ref all the leaver wingnuts will carry on voting for fartrage. Same goes for Corbyn too. He puts current position in a manifesto and they'll be lucky to finish 4th. I reckon they'll both offer a referendum to try and save their parties. | | | |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 14:40 - Jul 23 with 1627 views | derbyhoop |
| A day that will live in infamy on 10:10 - Jul 23 by essextaxiboy |
I get that . That's why I selected Derbyhoops paragraph on 35000 daily crossings . I took those to mean nontrade crossings by individuals . . |
35,000 was individuals. And would be covered by the CTA. The CTA works with UK and Ireland having the same or very similar rules. Not guaranteed in a post Brexit world. Incidentally, the CTA was suspended from 1939-52.
And it works, provided the individuals.weren't held up by all the trade traffic trying to cross at the same place. Could be a problem on the M1 between Dundalk and Newry and Donegal-Derry. Bit of a problem for the head teacher at a Derry school, who lives in Donegal. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 14:46 - Jul 23 with 1609 views | qpr1976 |
Another Referendum will remove any remaining trust in democracy. What if Remain wins ? Best of 3, best of 5, best of 19 ?
Then Every General Election will go the same way if those voting for the losers get the hump and demand another vote..... | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:46 - Jul 23 with 1604 views | baldyoldgit |
| A day that will live in infamy on 12:21 - Jul 22 by FDC |
Just to add to this:
If the Labour leadership are really going to make a go of this, they need to be far less timid, vis-a-vis both internal battles and with the media. If you look at the polling post-Panorama for example, they haven't really moved from around 25-28% (YouGov aside, natch). This appears to be the hardcore, absolute rock-bottom for both the Tories and Labour. At this point there is little to be lost in calling out the absolutely atrocious misrepresentations and bias in the establishment press - yes there will be backlash, but it is a necessary battle for where they want to go. At this stage there is little point trying to build consensus with the likes of Tom Watson internally, and with Laura Kuntychops and the rest at the BBC. Lets have the battle.
To preempt: the comparison with not taking a decisive position on Brexit is invalid, since attempting to build consensus between remainers and leavers was the correct thing to do, but was unfortunately scuppered by ultras on both sides.
EDIT: This, for example, from Rafael Behr -- who has pretty much got everything wrong for the best part of three years now and yet remains one of the Guardian's go-to-commentators -- is categorically incorrect. It's just factually not true. John McD should be calling him a cvnt all over the place and making an example of him imo.
The idea that Rafael Behr has some insight into the Labour activist base is laughable.
[Post edited 22 Jul 2019 12:29]
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really? The two things I've seen him on, this clip and the one on the BBC panel show he's been absolutely spot on about brexit and then labour and brexit. Not arsed if it upsets you but he's describing me and loads of people I know who traditionally vote labour perfectly. excited when he came to be leader about the stuff he wanted to try and do but his lexit fudge has sent me packing. I voted Labour in every election since I turned 18 but ended up not voting at all in the last local elections. Unless Labour manifesto explicitly states there will be another ref or he'll revoke A50 I won't vote Labour again. I suspect I won't be alone. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:52 - Jul 23 with 1576 views | baldyoldgit |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:46 - Jul 23 by qpr1976 |
Another Referendum will remove any remaining trust in democracy. What if Remain wins ? Best of 3, best of 5, best of 19 ?
Then Every General Election will go the same way if those voting for the losers get the hump and demand another vote..... |
pretty sure remove the 'trust in democracy' will only be experienced by leavers IF they then lose. Remainers already feel democracy has been abolished by the gerrymandering, lies and dark money involved in the last one. You could almost just as easily say that if we have another ref and remain wins a majority then democracy will have actually been restored. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:07 - Jul 23 with 1532 views | baldyoldgit |
agreed and hence labour's problem. the judgement is which is the lesser of two evils and, in my opinion, labour are trying to not pick either but will end up picking both. my mate is a leaver and life-ling labour voter and I'm a remainer and a life-long labour voter. If the election was tomorrow he'd vote UKIP2.0 ltd and I'd, painfully, vote Lib Dem (or maybe green if it made sense tactically).
Tory party face much the same problem if they push for no deal. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:14 - Jul 23 with 1503 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:52 - Jul 23 by baldyoldgit |
pretty sure remove the 'trust in democracy' will only be experienced by leavers IF they then lose. Remainers already feel democracy has been abolished by the gerrymandering, lies and dark money involved in the last one. You could almost just as easily say that if we have another ref and remain wins a majority then democracy will have actually been restored. |
what a load of rubbish. Democracy restored if YOU get the result you want? |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:20 - Jul 23 with 1477 views | baldyoldgit |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:14 - Jul 23 by Ned_Kennedys |
what a load of rubbish. Democracy restored if YOU get the result you want? |
exactly. well done. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:22 - Jul 23 with 1467 views | ngbqpr |
He lies. A lot.
He's racist.
That could be just a couple of the reasons his ascending to the highest position in the land hasn't gone down too well with everyone. |  |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 15:23 - Jul 23 with 1462 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:20 - Jul 23 by baldyoldgit |
exactly. well done. |
Let's hope you remain disappointed then. | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:30 - Jul 23 with 1567 views | LythamR |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:14 - Jul 23 by Ned_Kennedys |
what a load of rubbish. Democracy restored if YOU get the result you want? |
unfortunately thats pretty much what has happened to this country, we have gone from a population primarily of the middle ground to a population with a close to 50/50 split of diametrically opposed views on an issue now seen as of primary importance and to quote Metallica "nothing else matters"
Very sad |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:31 - Jul 23 with 1568 views | FDC |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:46 - Jul 23 by baldyoldgit |
really? The two things I've seen him on, this clip and the one on the BBC panel show he's been absolutely spot on about brexit and then labour and brexit. Not arsed if it upsets you but he's describing me and loads of people I know who traditionally vote labour perfectly. excited when he came to be leader about the stuff he wanted to try and do but his lexit fudge has sent me packing. I voted Labour in every election since I turned 18 but ended up not voting at all in the last local elections. Unless Labour manifesto explicitly states there will be another ref or he'll revoke A50 I won't vote Labour again. I suspect I won't be alone. |
In that clip Behr is saying that John McDonnell and 'Corbynites' -- by which we have to assume he mains Labour activists who support Corbyn -- are now doing a cost v benefit calculation to determine whether it's time to give Corbyn the boot. That is untrue. And I'm not sure how he would claim to know this if it were, since he has no connection to either, and is hardly an investigative journalist. We'll have to disagree over Behr's analysis of Brexit and Labour.
I obviously wouldn't dispute there are people who feel very strongly about Brexit on either side who have the hump over Labour having tried to bridge the gap between them with a soft Brexit. But I would contend that actually the majority of the country (and certainly the majority of Labour supporters) would have been satisfied with a soft Brexit and moving on, but I guess we'll never know. I think your wish will be met and Labour will now have to adopt a remain position -- which will ultimately be damaging to their electoral chances I think, making a hard Brexit supporting Tory government more likely. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:32 - Jul 23 with 1567 views | connell10 |
Boris is full of shite , he said he would stop the Heathrow 3rd runway , so come on Boris do it you fat t wat! |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 15:33 - Jul 23 with 1562 views | stowmarketrange |
| A day that will live in infamy on 14:46 - Jul 23 by baldyoldgit |
really? The two things I've seen him on, this clip and the one on the BBC panel show he's been absolutely spot on about brexit and then labour and brexit. Not arsed if it upsets you but he's describing me and loads of people I know who traditionally vote labour perfectly. excited when he came to be leader about the stuff he wanted to try and do but his lexit fudge has sent me packing. I voted Labour in every election since I turned 18 but ended up not voting at all in the last local elections. Unless Labour manifesto explicitly states there will be another ref or he'll revoke A50 I won't vote Labour again. I suspect I won't be alone. |
I was a labour member for 3 years until they decided to disregard my views on Brexit.Now I won’t vote for them for the opposite reasons that you won’t.
This country really is fuc ked. |  | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:36 - Jul 23 with 1554 views | baldyoldgit |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:23 - Jul 23 by Ned_Kennedys |
Let's hope you remain disappointed then. |
my disappointment is irrelevant. the point i was making was that an individuals perception of democracy seems inextricably linked to the result of the vote. "you lost, get over it". Because your side 'won' the referendum absolutely no evidence at all will convince you that if we have another referendum without leaving first that "it will be the end of democracy". we could have a video of Aaron Banks stuffing 2 million postal votes into a post box and you still wouldn't believe that the vote was flawed. the same is true the other way: if we leave on 'no deal', something not a single person voted for, democracy could also be perceived to be dead. the idea of true democracy exists in the mind of the voter.
Out of interest - do you think Boris will be forced to have a GE before October 31st? | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:37 - Jul 23 with 1551 views | BuckR |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:32 - Jul 23 by connell10 |
Boris is full of shite , he said he would stop the Heathrow 3rd runway , so come on Boris do it you fat t wat! |
For what reason? | | | |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:42 - Jul 23 with 1518 views | connell10 |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:37 - Jul 23 by BuckR |
For what reason? |
To stop pollution and air craft noise.. do i need to go on? | |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| A day that will live in infamy on 15:42 - Jul 23 with 1514 views | baldyoldgit |
| A day that will live in infamy on 15:31 - Jul 23 by FDC |
In that clip Behr is saying that John McDonnell and 'Corbynites' -- by which we have to assume he mains Labour activists who support Corbyn -- are now doing a cost v benefit calculation to determine whether it's time to give Corbyn the boot. That is untrue. And I'm not sure how he would claim to know this if it were, since he has no connection to either, and is hardly an investigative journalist. We'll have to disagree over Behr's analysis of Brexit and Labour.
I obviously wouldn't dispute there are people who feel very strongly about Brexit on either side who have the hump over Labour having tried to bridge the gap between them with a soft Brexit. But I would contend that actually the majority of the country (and certainly the majority of Labour supporters) would have been satisfied with a soft Brexit and moving on, but I guess we'll never know. I think your wish will be met and Labour will now have to adopt a remain position -- which will ultimately be damaging to their electoral chances I think, making a hard Brexit supporting Tory government more likely. |
i actually meant his synopsis of the position of a lot of labour voters rather than people monitoring corbyn's popularity.
You may be right about a softer brexit although I don't really know what that is. The only way to leave with the GFA intact is to stay in the single market and customs union. Pretty sure a few on this board would say that isn't leaving and "the end of democracy!" | | | |
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